UKH

If you're incapacitated on a Scottish winter mountain then your prospects depend on how well equipped you are, and how quickly you can be found. Roger Webb of Dundonnell Mountain Rescue Team looks at some simple measures that might help to stack the odds in your favour. 

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Interesting article and some good things I hand't thought about much like the lack of visibility on head detection cameras etc.  

one thing I do think that is missing (as a ski tourer / Back country skier in both Scotland and elsewhere) I the holy trinity of Transceiver Shovel Probe or at least probe and shovel. Seeing as we have already had a couple of avalanches this season. I think it is something that climbers should take more seriously. and yes you still might hit rocks and get killed via trauma but you also might get buried people do in Scotland e.g the Church Door Buttress incident, mostly climbers. So a mention of learning the basics of self rescue from avalanche and kit to consider probably should have been included. 

Sobering reality check, Roger, thanks for this! I'd been lulled into a mistaken reliance on the effectiveness of contrast over colour (from subsea experience where colour disappears rapidly with distance) so hadn't thought too much about my belay jacket being black, but you've convinced me otherwise.  I'll look out for a brighter colour now and add a Recco reflector to it and to my bothy bag. I've used SPOT for a number of years but never in anger and the reliability hasn't been 100%, but it's all percentages. 

Hurray for this article. I have been banging on about this for I don't know how many years. Only recently went to buy o/trousers and everything was either black or dark blue. Grrr!

I don't think that's missing from this article, it's a whole other debate/article.

"I don't think that's missing from this article, it's a whole other debate/article"

I mean it is  a pretty common (a few a year) thing to happen to people that then require rescuing or retrieving (normally climbers). that's relay only my point ref the article.

I liked the article as it stands 

and i wasn't proposing starting a debate, more just identifying the fact that avalanches are a fairly regular reason people need "to be found alive" and  the equipment and training available, e.g glenmore lodge do some great avalanche awareness coerces, TSP may be helpful for yourself and others. stuff like that.

shouldn't be a weirdly taboo subject in the winter climbing/ walking world 

One thing we were told in diving was that if you know a helicopter is searching for you in the water, remove your hood so that they can see your warm head on the thermal imagining camera.

I'm also thinking that a brightly coloured bit of fabric that can be attached to a walking pole as a flag would be really helpful.

Thanks for this.

The other day I attached a little whistle to my chalk bag drawstring. Not really a winter in the mountains thing, but I had a bit of a realisation that I might not necessarily be within reach of my bag of useful stuff when things go wrong.

A fluorescent safety vest also weighs very little costs about £3 and can be worn over a belay jacket to aid your chances of being located

Especially if it has reflective strips. The helicopter light is very bright and I would expect them to be very effective.  My kit is pretty well all dull, too much time playing hide and seek with those who dont want me around at lower levels, so I have gone down the vest route too.  Some have been free as roadside swag.

It's not taboo, it's been discussed on here several times.

I replied to your post as you worded it as something that was missing from this article, although you've since clarified that's not what you meant. It definitely isn't a lack in the article, in fact, I think that discussing tranceivers in the article would have distracted from the key messages. The key messages in this for me are things that every winter climber should do/take every time they go out and tranceivers don't fall into that category.

Exactly, a quick look at the website of my local outdoor shop (a branch of Tiso) showed that they sell 20 different models of waterproof trousers - 18 black and 2 grey.  Anyone know where to buy a pair of red or yellow waterproof overtrousers, at a reasonable price?

A strobe light is useful.   

I'm not talking about the ones for parties and that sort of thing.  I don't know whether you can still get them but I have one about the size of pack of cards and lasts for a very long time.  The one I have is easily seen at a fair distance in daylight.

I carry a small usb power bank, a cable that will charge my phone, and a couple of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00W74BW90/

Untested but it feels like I should be able to solve more than one problem with that.

Edit: they'd be a crap night light; they're blindingly bright LEDs.

A though provoking article.

Maybe time to bring back the ubiquitous  bright orange plastic survival bag.

But would it be heard over your screams as you fell through the air?

It might actually; it's bloody loud. https://www.printables.com/model/430499-tiny-emergency-whistle-incredibly-l...

Can someone please tell me where the second person is in the first picture. I've zoomed in a searched it all but still can't see them, it's doing my nut in

When I go for a run I usually have this on my rucksac. I originally started using it for bits on lanes, but it is always with me and weighs little isn't expensive and the batteries last for ages.

Cateye Orb

For the eight quid that totally useless Amazon junk costs, you could get a real keychain light that won't crap out on you whenever you get even a tiny amount of water on the USB plug or when you force it the wrong way around into the USB socket with your cold, wet, shaking hands.

On the right in the green bivi bag (I think!)

Thank you.

I think you're right.  Hang on...  there.

In the case that everything is wet and the first thing I try is working I'd be using the good headtorch that's in the same pocket in my bag. In the situation that the headtorch isn't working, I've something else to try and something I can charge my phone from. But thanks for your valuable input.

I was a bit surprised to see no mention of retro-reflective material at all.  Perhaps because rescuers on foot wouldn't be looking in the dark and using lights.  But for anyone who is using a light, a clean bit of Scotchlite, Solas or whatever will really pop.

A lot of head torches have a strobe function btw.

is lime green ok or would chartreuse be better?

What!  Do you still think it is 2021?  Oh dear.

I put reflective strips on my helmet, they show up brilliantly.

Ship chandlers.  The brands you want are 'Guy Cotten' and 'Grundens of Sweden'.  The problem is that they're likely to be PVC-coated fabric and non-breathable. However, they are pretty much indestructible and won't leak on pressure points.  If you get dungarees the lack of breathability thing isn't particularly a problem as air can freely flow through them.  If you want lightweight mountaineering trousers then you need to look at the European brands as they tend to be brighter - Salewa, Mammut, Ortovox, Schoffel etc.  Also, perhaps you can find some suitable hunting ones in orange camo?

decathlon, 2021 (reduced

Dayglo Orange or red is far better than both as they're too close to green, and don't stand out against light backgrounds.  Commercial fishermen use dayglo orange pot bobbers for good reason.  The only time dayglo yellow / chartreuse / green is any good is at dusk when the brightness of their fluorescence is brighter than the orange, but that's only 1/2 an hour in the day.

For those of you wondering about the latest IPhone SOS facility, it doesn't seem great:

https://www.climbing.com/news/iphone-sos-button-saves-injured-climber/

"Unfortunately, the SOS system itself had limited utility. Apple would not contact Search and Rescue services, and Pellerin was only able to communicate via short texts. “They changed the responder on the chat every half hour,” Pellerin recalled, “and they didn’t seem to have the capacity to reach out to Search and Rescue. I mentioned did you contact SAR? about 20 times.” Each time, the automated answer given was worryingly vague. The appropriate emergency services have been contacted. An ambulance is on its way. An ambulance waiting for them at the trailhead, of course, would do little good.

The saving grace of the feature was that Pellerin was able to get off that lone 40-character message to Middleton. He saw the message before he went to bed, and immediately contacted local SAR. “My emergency contact spent the night coordinating the rescue,” Pellerin said. “The only information he was given was my coordinates and the 40-character message.” Middleton had no way to reply, and Apple’s ever-revolving series of SOS operators gave no indication whether or not SAR was in progress, save for their default: The appropriate emergency services have been contacted. An ambulance is on its way."

Excellent and valuable article.

One thing I can recommend from personal experience is SOLAS retro-reflective tape. I once spotted a lifebuoy (washed off the deck of a ship) at about 1/2 a mile in the moonlight; that stuff shows up fantastically if you shine a light in its general direction. It can be wrapped around a walking pole just below the handle (might need to be held in place by clear sellotape), or a few patches can be stuck onto a climbing helmet (not going to get into the adhesives-on-helmets debate). Top, sides, front and back. 

Really useful article Roger 

Good job I'm not mountain rescue because I still can't see them

It’s the greenish shape (not really person shaped) in the middle of the red circle. Right under the triangular rock with a patch of snow on its left hand side. 

As Misha says - it's an olive green bivvy bag, a bit like this one.  More or less the same orientation but not laid out flat, feet to the bottom right, head end to the upper left, knees raised.

Got them. I definitely won't be buying a gree bivvy bag anytime soon

Good article.

Adventure Lights make a variety of different coloured flashing LED lights that are tough, waterproof and light (20g). So worth considering for some extra visibility when you want to conserve head torch batteries.

Although this article doesn't really affect me (*), I really liked it's down to earth matter of fact style, calling a spade a spade. Really brings home how little things can make a difference when the s*it hits the fan.

(*) - I don't do winter mountaineering although I have been known to do a bit of blundering about in the snow when I've turned up somewhere and found it a bit whiter than expected. However, thinking about it, some of this also applies to non-winter activities - I might have a bit of a think about what I carry with me when going for a walk in the hills. 

Bring back...? Mine never went away... 

I disagree. A bothy bag is a much more useful piece of kit. Mine is fluorescent pink, green and yellow. I’ve carried it instead of an orange plastic bag for decades.
 

It’s a handy place to eat or have a few moments of shelter on the hill. It gets far more use than I ever got from an orange plastic bag. 

Having once spent a night in an orange plastic bag, that’s one night too many. Bothy bag all the way. 

cheers

al

All fair points, but you can't go sledging in a bothy bag though!

That's good to hear. I also always carry a bothy bag, but it is a dull dark red. It is now very tatty, so it would be good to be able to replace it with a bright one.

I've put a bit of reflective tape around the ends of straps on most rucksacks, harness waist belt etc... 

Great point George. It should be actively talked about by climbers. I guess a few realistic Scottish climbers related issues. 
1.  Illogical as it sounds climbers tend to seek out snow less than skiers. Slight risk reduction. 
2.  I think TSP carriage in a lone party of 2-3 has potential to distract from the much more important decision of whether you should be there in the first place. Like scrum caps in rugby. Having it doesn’t mean you can change your itinerary. You’re no more bullet proof. Best to turn back or take a different route. 
3. Unfortunately and realistically 😔 TSP probs not a gamechanger in scotland. If you’re slid on a route, if you’re slid in small snowpack and injured by terrain traps, if you’re buried deep in moist/dense snowpack with only 1 person to find you. 

Yes reflective tape is incredible in the dark (obvs if folk have headtorches searching). 
If it doesn’t stick to clothing then absolutely helmets, poles (stuck in ground above you, rucksack. 
Or a marker panel I guess if it’s super light. 

Check the website of Lomo in Glasgow. They do very good value ones that have won lots of tests. Mine isn't from there, but I paid a lot more for it maybe 20 years ago than they cost now from cheaper places like Lomo. 

I really should do this on my poles, simple cheap, light and easy.

Would also be useful for making you more visable to cars when heading down off the hill after dark. That last few hundred yards back to the car can be the most dangerous part of and walks.

If you're in the market for a new bothy bag, I'd strongly recommend looking at Summitgear's range. The yellow is the best bet if you want to be visible, way better than red.

Not saying it's a game changer, but there's definitely examples in Scotland where it would probably have made a difference... It isn't heavy or expensive. It isn't necessary the climb often, but during the approach or way back traversing snow slopes, climbing under people etc. just something climbers should consider more. As the statistics seem to show some kind of complacency in the waking/ climbing community that's not present in the skiing community.  Even considering carrying kit and learning about it means your thinking more about what you are about to set off doing that day. I would argue that it has the opposite of distraction but actually focusing the carrier as only someone who is aware of the issues and dangers would carry the kit so it's just all part of wider avalanche awareness, but also shit happens so why not be prepared. 

It was left out of the article deliberately.

The target audience are climbers and hillwalkers rather than ski tourers.

There is a whole debate to be had concerning TPS and climbing/hillwalking. The issues, as James points out, aren't as clear cut as they are for tourers.There are valid and sustainable arguments on both sides. 

The message in the article is that there are simple things that climbers and hillwalkers  can do to improve their prospects without major changes in behaviour, or investment in gear and training.

Including TPS and the necessary training would I think obscure that message.

Having been avalanched down Observatory Gully, having had a good friend killed by avalanche elsewhere on the Ben and spending quite a lot of time training avalanche rescue I am aware of the issues you raise. Your point is well made but I think it needs a whole other thread or article. 

And:

For the avoidance of doubt, I absolutely defend the right of anyone to go on the hill in whatever kit they choose as spontaneously as they choose. The article, I hope, gives information. What people do with that is up to them. 

I've always found it interesting that manufacturers don't include a few bits of reflective materials/strips on things such as jackets and rucksacks. As a cyclist I've got kit with reflective elements. Smaller daysacks often have seriously bright colour covers with reflective bits on, but not larger ones.

I carry an emergency bivvy by SOL - it's tiny, has a couple of layers of reflective Mylar, and it's bright orange on the outside.

I also carry a couple of the cheap chemical foot or hand warmer pads as hot water bottles. They last about 6 hours and can kick out some good heat.

l learned the SOL bivvy and hand warmers while volunteering as a body for an MRT training day - I stayed toasty warm for 3 hours up Lawers in about 1*c and sleet.

Having spent quite long holidays in Norway, my experience is that bright outdoor clothing is the order of the day. Walk into the Bergan’s, Swix or Peak Performance outlet shops in Algard and you need your sun glasses on.

Great article. I've had a rubbish year after breaking my ankle hillwalking - it was in perfect weather conditions, on straightforward terrain, shows an accident could happen at any time in any conditions. The one good thing about it all was that at least I was easily spotted once I managed to raise help, saving rescuers from spending hours searching for me and saving me from a cold night on a hill. 

There are a few examples where it might have made a difference but I really can't think of many. Most of the avalanche fatalities involving burial I can think of involved the whole party being buried or unburied members being too injured to search.

There are some scenarios where climbers might consider carrying avalanche kit but it's far more complex than 'it saves lives in skiing so it will also save lives in climbing.'

A great article and a timely reminder that being found alive is often decided by following a few simple and sensible rules. 

I don't think anyone responded to this.  I think you should definitely expect rescuers to be looking in the dark and using lots of light, therefore sticking loads of reflective stuff on kit would help.

OTOH, if this article gets reposted on UKH, that's not just climbing, innit...

Next up in this series - how to wipe your own ass or blow your nose.

Patronising and condescending shyte

I think you will find wiping your arse and being patronising has already been done, monopolised, patented, and trade marked by Mountaineering Scotland.

Our learned friend would know better than to infringe.

Should you ever need to be rescued by Dundonnell MRT, I for one, could forgive them for giving you a bit of a rough ride. They wouldn't of course, because knowing a few of them I know they are better than that.

Are you decent enough to do the right thing and apologise? 

Thanks Roger, some cheap and easy things to consider.

That must have been a tough article to write; hats-off to you guys.

You’re right, for a lot of folk the article will be nugatory. But for a lot it will provide useful guidance. 
Rubbishing it is pointless. Point the less experienced towards it. If you are experienced add to it. Eg. I do/don’t take “X”, I’ve used “X” or I find it has the following flaws. I use this insurance, that one is no good from experience. 
Don’t be a land anchor. 

The GNSS location of a Garmin inReach Mini can be discovered remotely even if the user is unconscious. It may be 'pinged' via the users MapShare page and it will report it's location.
https://hikingguy.com/how-to-hike/how-to-find-the-location-of-an-inreach-de...

The iPhone 14 and 15 offer a satellite-based SOS that does not require a phone signal.
https://youtu.be/vlGLJL0IB3M?si=UIo8oL4bB9At6qHX

It's likely that satellite SOS/comms tech will arrive on Android phones soon. 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-64182383

A great article, thanks.

A few years ago I was talking with an RAF sea king SAR pilot. They mentioned a couple of tips that really help them locating someone:

During daylight, you don't need fluorescent colours, just something that strongly contrasts with your environment. As we were talking in a sea kayaking context, the slightly surprising example they gave was that bright blue was one of the easier colours to spot for a sea kayak. Obviously in the dark then you definitely want something reflective. 

The other good tip they had was that they often found it very useful if they know a colour to look out for, so adding a description of what colour jacket you're wearing is helpful (Obviously this might be a different to what you wear underneath it, so maybe a couple of colours would be best).

yes

Used to before I got a mini inreach

Yes and yes. The coastguard will inform the approprite service depending on where the signal is coming from.

PLBs need to be registered online -

https://www.gov.uk/register-406-beacons

All PLBs have a unique ID number and registration requires an emergency contact number which together may help to determine whether the alert is a false alarm.

Why not AIS like i have on my life jacket chucking out my exact lat and long in an approx 5 mile radius?

Out of interest, does anyone know if MRT are using Recco outside of avalanche areas to locate casualties on the hill / missing persons? I have not seen much hillwalking equipment that has it sewn in so perhaps this is a chicken/egg (not standard for closing <-> MRT not using it) or maybe there are some issues with using it in the kind of UK terrain from the Coast Guard helicopter (?)