UKH

As I was musing on a long circuitboard session resting on a jug the concept of a thank god jug sprang to mind. But alas I couldn't think of a single route that has one, even though I know they exist.

Maybe Five Finger Exercise (E2 5c) would count as one?

I recall the jug at the top of the groove on Ffoeg's Folly (E2 5c) was very welcome, as the gear below was all very small (but probably fine).

I also remember grabbing the tree root at the top of Velvet Glove (E4 6a) which was the first time I'd used an indoor style handle jug!  Not sure if it's "in", but I could see it so I grabbed it!  

I imagine the one near the top of The Master's Edge (E7 6c) may well feel like a Godsend if getting there was close enough to your limit.

The best one I know is above the overhang on pitch 2 of Malbogies (HVS 5a). It's a really good one 

You forgotten crads wall already?

Five Finger Exercise most definitely has the supreme ‘thank god’ bucket after the crux moves.

Ditto The Left Unconquerable (E1 5b)

Cemetery Gates (E1 5b) has a mass of them at the top.

Vector (E2 5c)/The Weaver (E2 5c)

Can't remember where the original one is. Avalanche on Lliwedd maybe? Archer Thompson perhaps. Somebody put me right....

The end of the traverse on the last pitch of The Ghost (E3 5b) or the massive flake at the top of What a Difference a Day Makes (E4 6a) are two ones that stood out for me recently.

Left unconcerable is a great shout

Trees are in unless you brought them with you in which case they're aid 

There’s the jug in Devil's Crack (VII) on which Kurt Albert swung free solo some 20m up in a lederhose, holding a litre glass of beer for the famous photograph. I got to just beneath it and fell out of the crack, I need to get some bigger fists for the next attempt.

https://images.app.goo.gl/kevyaD4dg8jax8Gf8

There must be loads but they don’t seem to be really memorable a lot of the time, perhaps because you only remember them when the route is at your limit.

Fast and Furious (E5 6a) certainly fits the bill, jug after the crux though there’s still plenty of work to be done (there’s then another jug when it finally relents). 

Dinosaur (E5 6a) doesn’t have one specific jug but there’s certainly a point when you finally get a good hold after a succession of slopers, pinches and sloping pinches.

Just Klingon (E5 6a) is one of those routes where every other hold is a jug but it doesn’t feel at all restful. Still, there are a few really good jugs which would fit the bill. There are a few routes like that at Mother Carey’s.

That got me thinking about Cornish granite. There’s a finger jug after the main crux of The West Face (E5 6b). Can’t remember The Ghost but now you mention it, What a Difference a Day Makes is a good call.

Which made me remember the ultimate jug in the Pass - King Wad (E6 6b). Actually, seem to recall there are two as you could go with either hand but in all likelihood only one hand will prove to be the ‘right’ hand on the day and you won’t get a second chance!

Brilliant, as this page was loading, I thought five finger exercise then there it was!

Can a foothold be a Thank God Jug? I'm thinking specifically of that one just round the arête on the front face of Strapadictomy. If you get a hand on it at the first opportunity you'll notice that it slopes disappointingly. A move or two higher, as a layback, it's more encouraging. If you reach high with your left and crimp the long edge [I probably should have said "Beta Alert" here; oops], get your foot round the corner into it and stand up - well, you're in heaven; you could stand there all day, if necessary, and there's very little reason to fall off the last move. Ok, it's not Cloggy - but nevertheless; at that point, and with due deference to Drummond, "elephants - possibly quite small and/or adolescent, but indisputably elephants - bounce past trumpeting".

At a more amenable grade

Bilberry buttress VS

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/raven_crag_langdale-344/bilberry_b...

Pitch 2 - steep crack with huge jug to finish

I agree.  Thank god for jugs!  They're the best.

Possibly The Sword, Lliwedd?

De Picos Pardos at Oliana has a cracker if you ever manage to get through the crux on red point (I didn't), and there's two great jugs after the balancy and exposed feeling middle section on Mishi, and another after the top crux just before the chains.

Electric Blue at Rhoscollyn has about 40 of them in a row in the top half, which again is rather welcome if you're soloing.

I was going to add the butcher at St Govans, but then I remembered that it's more of an "Oh Sh!t" jug as it gives you plenty of time to rest and think about the next move.

I do remember doing a DWS at St Govans that wasn't too hard technically but ended with a balancy reach around the arete to a jug. Tide was dropping and there was a slab under the water that meant a fall from that point would likely have a very bad outcome, so latching it was about as welcome as it gets.

Route 2 on Lliwedd I believe...

https://footlesscrow.blogspot.com/2010/04/up-against-it.html?m=1

and...

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y7lyeqaLUHc/S8MBV2m60EI/AAAAAAAAAX0/d8qlOtwX388/...

Rubicon (7a) every time I latch it there’s a ‘Thank God’.

Top of Right Eliminate.

Yeah, but then you have to mantel/grovel. It is a thank god nut, though.

Wings of unreason. 

Deliverence, are boulders cheating? As many have the biggest jug on the top!

Basically any Dyno within grade reach of a semi mortal would do. 

Or reachy routes? Slabs upto breaks. Thinking grit or slate must have loads at most grades.

I remember now there being a thank god jug on Black Death (E4 6a) just as I was thinking it was all a bit too hard. Mainly thank god it wasn't taken over by a bush.

Correct Sean. Lliwedd, Route2.  CC. Lliwedd guide. Noyce and Edwards.

Beat me to it. Incidentally IIRC that 1946 guide was still current into the 1970s until Drasdo's.

Also noted Myfyr in the latest guide (Kevin Neal)  p.36 pitch 4. We thank god and the Yanks thank Jesus!

Chequers Buttress, the jug on the arête is in just the right place.

Yes, that jug is amazing. It’s almost like a joke it’s so convenient.

I’ve just thought of another one: the extraordinary upside down jug at the end of the very exposed leftward traverse on about pitch 4? of Nexus.

The perfect place for poseurs, as is East Rib at Shining Cough!

Did I just dream it or can I remember people talking about reaching the "Paternoster" holds just in time in earlier years.  I certainly remember the term and it seemed to mean holds where you were saying your prayers by the time you reached them.

Brown's eliminate

Thank god hold - maybe, thank god jug - you're having a laugh 🤣

I would argue that if you need two Thank God Holds, they can’t be Thank God Jugs. The latter is something you should be able to hang off one handed while taking photos of your belayer and ideally there should only be one on the whole route. 

This thread's at risk of getting too light hearted so let's get a bit philosophical 😁

There's a difference between great jugs and thank god jugs although of course many jugs are both.

So some of the examples given are IMO great but not thank god...

Malbogies (HVS 5a) has a great jug, and you may struggle to find it, but it's not thank god because you're not on the point of coming off (although the thank god might be "so that's where it is").

The Left Unconquerable (E1 5b) is a thank god because without it you might very well continue the barn door move all the way round and off.

Not done Cemetery Gates (E1 5b) but if it's got a mass of them at the top, then they might all be great, but they can't all be thank god.

Chequers Buttress (HVS 5a) great, yes. Thank god, I don't think so, you're struggling to do the move without it rather than being on the verge of coming off.

Many of the examples are above my pay grade, but I suspect that as you go up the grades, any great jug is more likely to be a thank god jug.

Just thought of an example not previously mentioned, the jug at the top of Insanity (E2 5c) when you're pumped out to the max.

Finally, every time I see the thread title, a completely different subject comes to mind (asleep whilst I'm awake ☹️).

Do they have to be a surprise to be classed as a 'Thank God Jug'?

The break on Altar Crack (VS 4c) could qualify but you're gunning for it from the second you step off the altar.

A good counter thread to this would be 'most disappointing hold'; being one that you're going for and really hoping is good but alas......is not.  

Scratch arete?

Think you’re spot on. A further thought is can it be thank god if you’re climbing well within your grade? It won’t feel it to you but it’s still thank god at the grade.

Conversely, a thank god jug on a high E grade route might be an average hold on a VDiff.

Which raises the question of what’s the lowest grade that can reasonably have a genuine thank god hold?

I know a great disappointing hold.... just above the crux of Kaisergebirge Wall (HVS 5b) on the Grochan in the Pass. I seconded it decades ago. As I recall, at the end of the long rising traverse that starts the climb you start going straight up (crux) heading for what looks like a great hold but absolutely isn't. I nearly fell off and my leader was smirking ha ha

I know exactly the hold, I was doing quasar and got to that bit. It made me think... Haha

Flake hold at the top of the slippery, twin cracks of Hope? VDiff. 

Speaking of the slabs then I'd wager Javelin Blade (E1 5b) as having a thank god jug of sorts. You're not going to be pumped but its very much a relief. Just got to solo the rest of the route after.

Lowest grade probably Severe. I don’t think Hope’s twin cracks are desperate/serious enough to warrant an appeal to the almighty.

Don't remember one if there is. There's a little finger edge outside the groove, but it's not much use until you're stood on it...

I’ve just looked up the original use of the term ‘Thank God hold’. It was used by J M Archer Thomson to describe a hold after a series of difficult moves on pitch 5 of Route II on Lliwedd in 1904 - which was graded Just Severe. So I suppose that answers the question about the lowest grade at which the term should be used.

Really? I only remember slopers!

Another "easy" grade, felt desperate to me! The big hold at the top of Parallel Lines (VS 4b) at Portobello was really one for me after the sustained climbing. (Looking back at it it's really just a ladder with small holds, guess I'm just a punter.)

I'm going to nominate the 'pocket' at the top of the slab on The Padder at Eastby

the buckets at the top of overhanging groove hvs at armscliff are definitely thank god jugs. its quite steep and abit runout at that point. they are very reassuring to hang off whilst you fire in a blue dragon cam.

my experience has been that thank god jugs are more found on topping out outcrop routes, ive found uk mountain rock to be typically off vertical and less pumpy in general. i think some of this is due to geology of lava flows vs erosion, id be interested if anyone knows more about this.

ive certainly experienced plenty of thank god nut-placements on mountain rock.

Wall of the Worlds E5 6a Swanage ,  Faraoh’s Face E3 5c Great Wanney , Outward Bound E4 6a Back Bowden , Marcher Lord VS 5a Berryhill and Wilfred Prickles VS 5a Kyloe . Wild Sheep E2 5b , Shepherd’s Crag - always good to hit the upper hood holds ! 
These all have memorable jugs just where you need them !
Great thread ! 

Tumble on Dow Crag

My memory is of a precarious reach to a nice crimpy jug!  And of the RP you are moving away from.

Surprised nobody's mentioned Left Wall (E2 5c) yet. Once you're past the high fingery crux you get a line of buckets leading leftwards to finish in style.

Of course you can forego them to go straight up for the direct finish, but the original line always made more sense to me, it's more natural.

My memory of Wall of the Worlds (as well as The Lean Machine) is they are both reasonably juggy, it’s just that someone tiled the cliff a bit too far, so they don’t feel that juggy…

Sidepull jug on Holocaust. 

The standard way on LW is more of a thank god finish!

No one’s mentioned Cenotaph yet, either, which most certainly finishes on a ‘thank god’ hold. Actually, many of the cruxes on the Cromlech do.