UKH

For peace of mind, I am posting this to warn others of my experience yesterday, particularly those who back off a route on one bolt and leave a mallion behind.

Yesterday I attempted to lead the route Leonidas at Spartan Wall (great route, by the way Dave !).

After making the move right to the base of the groove I ran out of steam and sat on the bolt. My intention then was to climb the remainder of the route bolt to bolt, get to the chain and strip the route in the conventional way.

I climbed to the next bolt, clipped, grabbed the quickdraw, clipped rope in usual fashion and asked my second to take.

The bolt then failed - the nut came off the bolt and I fell onto the bolt below. The bolt is still in the rock and from what I could see from below looked rusty along the thread.

From memory, the nut did not look loose when I clipped. My climbing partner climbed the route a few days ago
and cannot remember anything odd when he clipped the bolt in question on lead (I did not follow on that occasion, saving the route for an onsight attempt).

I still have the hanger whch I will give to Steve at Glaros bar today.

I have backed off routes in the past on one bolt and want to make people aware of the consequences of this on a
single bolt. Yesterday I retrieved the gear by lowering off the bolt below leaving a mallion and using a prussik
to protect me on the bolts below.

Stay safe

In reply to derekb:

You mean the hangar came off because the nut was loose or the bolt actually failed? The first happens, did so to me at WCJ last week. The nut flew off down the hill never to be seen again.

A failed bolt is a bit more serious.

It's normally fairly easy to spot a loose nut, alot of people carry a spanner for this.

In reply to snoop6060:

As stated above, the bolt is still in the rock with the thread visible. I dont know if the nut was loose but the thread of the bolt was visible when I clipped the bolt - ie the nut was still screwed on to the bolt. My understanding is that if the nut
spins (and in this case I cant say) but the bolt still goes through the nut then the nut should not come off when
body weight is applied.

My concern is that corrosion has (potentially) caused the thread on the nut/bolt to fail.

In reply to derekb:

To put this to bed.....

Mike reed has replaced the hanger and nut - the existing stud and thread was fine - tightened up fine. Not sure what happened when I weighted the previous equipment but route now ok. Thanks mike

In reply to derekb:

You mention "Yesterday I retrieved the gear by lowering off the bolt below leaving a mallion and using a prussik
to protect me on the bolts below" - Can you explain how this works? Sounds useful but I can't get my head around it...

In reply to sopaz:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://w...

In reply to derekb:

Surely that nut must have been ridiculously loose for that to happen?

In reply to Cheese Monkey:

The last route I did at Kalymnos had a loose hanger (as had several others I'd encountered earlier in the trip), that required hanging on the crux for what seemed like an inordinate amount of time, screwing up the nut by hand until it was at least finger tight, before then trusting it for the crux moves. I can easily believe it may have been very close to the hanger coming off completely had I not realised it was loose.
My advice would be to carry a spanner on your harness at all times, so as to be able to properly tighten on the descent any loose nuts found while climbing. Unfortunately I didn't take my own advice so had to leave the route with a nut that was only finger tight
If anyone is interested, the route in question was Lorreta (7c).

In reply to sopaz:

I think it's like you have a prussik from belay loop attached to the rope that is still clipped to gear, which you slide down that rope whilst being lowered. If the bolt u r lowering on fails, without the prusik, the amount of slack would easily have you decking, but with the prusik, you just take a lead fall from above the next bolt you will unclip. It's a safety measure, but not guaranteed to save you.

In reply to john arran:

Sounds like a good item to have in your kit, but what size nut are most/all of them?

In reply to Pqhf5kd:

I have one that the fits nuts usually used on 10mm and 12mm bolts, one on either end. I think it might be 17mm/19mm. Not sure where it came from as I got it from a friend, but I suspect Petzl might do one.

In reply to Pina:
I get 404 file or directory not found with that link!

In reply to Pqhf5kd:

DMM nutbusters have a spanner in the handles...

In reply to john arran:


You want a 17/19mm ring spanner, available anywhere. I prefer the flat type rather than the cranked ones for bolting.
Some nut keys have spanner ends, I´ ve one from Grivel (I think) and another make but they are fundamentally useless and who carries a nut key sport climbing anyway?
Personally I just tighten the nut finger-tight and continue, the bolt isn´ t any weaker if the hanger is loose.

In reply to jimtitt:

Is there any reason not to use a thread locking compound/Loctite on bolts that persistently loosen themselves?

Remember doing Orion a few years ago, the crux bolt is really hard to clip mid crux so everyone just skips it, but the nut on the bolt below it always spun loose. Unlikely but it would be one hell of a whipper if that bolt blew.

In reply to Quiddity:

Depends on why the nut keeps coming loose, if the bolt is shifting then loctite isn´ t curing the problem and just stops it being re-tightened. Stopping the nut coming off is one thing ( a hammer on the bolt threads will do that) but having a loose hanger eventually cuts through the bolt itself and not being able to inspect it is a hassle. Using glue-ins is the answer!

In reply to jimtitt:

good points, thanks.

In reply to derekb:

Hi Derek,
Sorry to hear about this problem, I only noticed the post today. As far as know all the bolts were stainless and came from the Glaros bolt fund and seemed fine at the time. I believe the one you are talking about is just below the steep groove and probably the one where the route direction changes angle slightly and also probably the first point that sees some failures and resting. Perhaps some sideways stress has resulted in loosening over time. Anyway I'm glad you weren't hurt.
Thanks to Mike Reed for replacing the hanger but next time I'm in Kaly I'll check all my routes on that sector. I'm quite proud of those routes and wouldn't want them to get a reputation for dodgy bolting.
Cheers, Dave

In reply to Rock to Fakey:

Weird. If you Google 'lower off single bolt petzl' or something of the likes you should get it.

In reply to Rock to Fakey:

"It's a safety measure, but not guaranteed to save you."

I seem to remember at least one accident years ago when someone was using a prusik on a fixed rope while soloing: the prusik melted through with a short fall (a very thin prusik loop might have been used however and I believe Petzl tested a 7mm prusik ). A fall while lowering off could be long.
I hardly do any sports climbs but surely it would be safer and simpler to leave the rope running through a sacrificial quickdraw (or just a krab or maillon) on the first bolt below the lowering point?
Like you I couldn't find the Petzl site, even when google searching....possibly withdrawn.

In reply to oldie:

Here's another vote for sacrificing two crabs or maillons, ie one in the bolt you lower from and one in the bolt below in case the unlikely event of the top one failing occurs. I've spent too many years using jiggery pokery to try to save money. I'm sure in the end I find more than I abandon.

In reply to oldie:
Sacrificing a bail biner on the next bolt down from the one u r lowering on, if its only one lower off, couldn't complete route etc, is a great idea.

For the prusik method, Classic prussik must be used, not french autoblok type...

http://i40.tinypic.com/34hj8jp.jpg

Older thread here... https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/t.php?t=455694

Seems like the links to the Petzl the cat, don't work anymore, hope he /she still has a nice home + has not become stray or is stuck in a shelter.