UKH

Hear me, oh hive mind.

I'm looking for a symbol to use in an icon inside a piece of software. The icon would be used to denote the island of Ireland as a geographical entity. More specifically, it would indicate the cartographic Irish Grid Reference System* that is shared by the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland.

I'm obviously aware of the political context and the various opinions that people hold. I'm not trying to make a political point or cause offence, but as a person living in England I'm aware that I may not have enough cultural knowledge to make a good choice. So I'm wondering if people better informed than me, particularly those living in either part of the island of Ireland, have any suggestions. I have access to various high-quality icon libraries so I wouldn't be drawing my own.

Flags are out, as are jokey things like leprechauns. Country shapes are too blobby. Needs to be recognisable as a simple monotone outline. I'm thinking a harp or a shamrock, but I'm not sure if they are "contested" in any way.

Thoughts?

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_grid_reference_system

I'd say a harp is fairly inoffensive. At least I(random Irish person) wouldn't be offended by it.

Hasn't the harp logo been taken over by a certain dark beverage? Would people think you were advertising.

I’m Irish so you could try the shamrock, which is associated with st Patrick who is recognised by both catholic and Protestant communities e.g see the Irish rugby team logo. Although my personal preference would be for the tri spiral carving which was found carved on the newgrange passage tomb, it’s pre Celtic and pre Christian. The harp is the symbol of the government of the republic of Ireland so probably would not be appropriate for a whole Ireland symbol https://www.newgrange.com/tri-spiral.htm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamrock

Harp and shamrock are considered neutral I believe.

The Harp has been used by both political and religious sides. 

And the Shamrock is commonly used by all, including the Irish abroad.

But I might be wrong, my knowledge comes from historical stuff and Irish pubs abroad 

It's a tough one, given it's for the entire island and not just the Republic.

Harp seems pretty neutral, Shamrock I'm unsure about, as it's generally plastered over pretend Irish pubs and on funny green hats.

How about a symbol for heavy rain,......

I'm with Bog ninja on the shamrock. It's the symbol on the Irish rugby shirt and clearly identifiable as Irish.

Actually I think they had it first.  (Registered as a trademark for a good 50 odd years before the Irish Government wanted to use it, anyway.)

I'd go with the shamrock personally.

A potato

A shamrock for me….

….as a half Irish/half English person!

How about the whole island of Ireland itself as an icon/image?

Is it really impossible to come up with a slightly stylised version of a map of the island or Ireland? Maybe I just spend too long looking at maps but I think its quite a distinct shape - Lough Neagh and the pointy bits sticking out into the Atlantic are give aways for a start!

What about a monochrome human, or couple walking over a rounded hill, with a Lough on the horizon, and the sun with rays entering a dark cloud(or vice versa), or similar variant.

Hills in various parts are not dissimilar, and likewise some sea-loughs.

Similar to this?  
 

ETA: maybe a stylised outline, but filled in with a stylised green tartan ‘wash’, which would look a bit ‘grid-like’?

Can't say I'd recognise it. That looks like a swaddled baby reaching out for a hug to me. I think the OP is probably right that there are a lot of us who wouldn't reliably recognise countries by shape other than their own.

Two cows.

One small,  one far away?

Do you have a non political icon for Great Britain that would be acceptable to all.

Maybe give you a starting point

I've always thought of the island of my birth as looking a bit like a seated teddy bear, looking west.

It's definitely a koala

I also thought it looked like a swaddled baby reaching out.  But the point is it doesn’t need to be too recognisable on its own, as the people seeing the icon will know from the context it is the Island of Ireland. (Similar to if the first time you saw the BBC Scotland icon it was on its own with no context, you probably wouldn’t go ‘outline of Scotland’, but seen in the context of BBC Scotland it is obvious).

That symbol got used in a lot of places, not just Newgrange!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triskelion

Yeah this would be the best way - Ireland is a very distinctive shape, even simplified. And also more meaningful than a symbol of some kind...

Stuff like this depends on context - if you are in a menu selecting a grid reference system, I'm confident you'd recognise this as Ireland, not a baby. 

It works for Cyprus. I think they're unique in having an outline of the country on the national flag.

How about a figure shooting itself in the foot? Then again ...

Kosovo does as well

I imagine that annoys Serbs no end

I always associate the harp with Wales for some reason

The Irish RFU use a shamrock as their symbol, and they represent the whole island of Ireland so I'd have thought that's relatively non partisan 

If it had the country name next to it I would believe that it was correct, but I wouldn’t have a clue what shape Ireland was unless it was named. Context would certainly tell me that it wasn’t a baby, that was a bit tongue in cheek, but if the OP needed the symbol to stand alone and be recognisable without additional text I would be lost. I also presume that they need symbols for multiple countries - depending on the range of countries involved, using outlines could quickly get tricky for people to interpret.

I get water bear instead of teddy bear - BC's logo looks like a tardigrade to me.

The potato is a sign of British colonisation of Ireland and the neglect and greed of the British rule during those times

https://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/younghistorians/2021/papers/26/

Click the download button at the top to read the article. 

Probably not the best symbol to use 

What symbols have you used for other places, presumably you want the Irish one to fit into the set rather than standing out as an oddity? Also, is it of interest that it's the Irish grid system you're denoting or is it for an option to choose between different grid systems (the grid being implicit, the location the item of interest)?

In a European context at least I'd say the outline of the island is pretty distinctive even when stylised, maybe overlay a grid so you don't need to put national/county borders into it.

That said, I doubt a shamrock will cause any confusion or trouble, it is simple and distinctive at any scale (especially if green) but it may not fit well into your existing icon set if they're flags (can't think what else unifies GB!).

jk (not Irish)

An orderly queue!

Good call but it brings to mind Farage and his snaking 'breaking point' queue cribbed from Goebbels. So it still works on several levels, unfortunately. Less contentious than a nice cup of tea?

jk

That's a tricky question isn't it, if you want to accurately reflect the status of Norn Iron.  (Which obviously none of us resident in GB are even aware of let alone give a fig about.)

'GB' works perfectly, but it's not graphical.  Bowler hat perhaps?  I certainly can't see that being controversial anywhere.

On reflection, I think I'd ditch the graphical logos and go with "OSI" for the Irish Grid, and "OSGB" for the British one.  (Even though it's technically just plain "OS".)

To distinguish between the Brits and the Irish!?  I don't think you've thought that one through.

And technically isn't part of Great Britain anyway. Hence The United Kingdom (lol) of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Well dur!  The point of auld al's question was to think of a symbol that represents Great Britain but not Northern Ireland as well (let alone the rest of Ireland).  It's tricky.  Any ideas?

A Potato

An Emerald

How about using some symbolic colours to represent the differing communities? Some orange to represent the protestant tradition, some green to be symbolic of the catholic community, and maybe some white between them to represent an enduring peace between the communities?

I could live with the The Norris' suggestion of a Koala ... it would help explain the diaspora & the vague green tinge I sense down under.  But when I googled tardigrade ... nah.  I must've had a reasonably happy childhood.

Entertaining jump to covid at the end!

Other options

Irish elk?

Simple celtic knot

Irish high cross

Barry's tea label

& a pretty good read!

Thank you, everyone, for your suggestions. I really didn't expect my rather obscure question to inspire so many comments. Rather than reply individually, some responses:

- Shamrock seems possible but my concern is that it has unfortunately become a bit leprechaun-ised in popular culture.

- Harp seems to be "taken" but is a possibility.

- Triskelion and Celtic knot: like it but possibly too obscure

- Outline shape: problem is that the icon would be quite small on a phone screen and loses the detail that distinguishes it from other similarly shaped geographic areas.

I'm currently using rectangular stylised flags to denote other grid systems, but I'm coming round to the idea of using country shape filled with the flag. In the case of the island of Ireland I'd use plain emrald green. Still pondering this, though, as is my way.

Thanks again! And at the risk of drawing this out past its sell-by date, I'm still open to suggestions...

Yes, although lots of arguable points, and a failure to compare the Irish famines with similar events in Europe at the time. 

Not so familiar (i.e. know nothing about) those. Any good references?

I'd agree - the tone's a bit secondary school project & lacks nuance.  But as a potted history I thought it good.  

I’m just vaguely aware of some others that I’ve come across that are roughly contemporary. Lots of older ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_famine_of_1867–1869
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Potato_Famine

but this looks like a good book, might try and dig it out.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/famine-in-european-history/E6AB1066582...

Ask Nike?

Shamrock would be obvious candidate.

Think harp might get some of the bowler hat brigade upset.

How small would the icon be?

I found this geographic Japan emoji and it still seems pretty recognisable to me: 🗾

A similar one for Ireland would probably be even more recognisable

Just what I thought Stuart.

The harp has been used on Irish coins and stamps for many many years along with the Celtic Cross.

Varies according to device display density (dpi). Often 72x72 but can be as low as 36x36 or as high as 144x144. It also gets auto-scaled to fit the screen layout. Needs to work on a smart watch with a small low-dpi display.

In the right context I'd agree that your Japan icon is recognisable. But in general I'm less sure that I could identify it alongside a number of other icons. The island of Ireland has a fairly distinctive shape as an island (although rotate Iceland through 90 degrees and you have something similar) but there are other countries / entities with land borders that have similar shapes (eg Serbia, French Guiana)

Cheers!

I believe this chap is revered across the island of Ireland although there is some dissent around whether the north or south produces the best cheese and onion flavour.