UKH

In the last few weeks I've done a few jobs for friends in their houses. This has been very agreeable. One thing I've noticed common to all is that they have expensive looking coffee machines. These are the sort that grind the beans and then does the business to produce a cup of coffee. This is then presented to me like some incredibly rare dish. Now, I'm the sort of guy who's well pleased if anyone is kind enough to make me a hot drink. I say thank and genuinely appreciate the gesture. However, the finesse of the process and teast produced from the big shinny piece of domestic appliance just leaves me bewildered. To me it just tastes like any other ground coffee made any other way. Am I taste blind or are these machines a con?

In reply to Deleated bagger:

I don't think they're a con as such, but unless they're the type that also refrigerate and froth the milk and serve that (which the very expensive ones do) they don't produce anything better than what a cheap filter machine would, or even a kettle and a cafetiere.

I had one for a bit and sold it (for not much less than I paid for it) because it was making me drink far, far too much coffee due to the convenience, I was shaking by the end of most days.  Could have put decaf beans in I suppose, but that never tastes quite as nice.

In reply to Deleated bagger:

There is a lot of posing going on with coffee machines. It's trendy, so people who aren't really that into coffee buy a fancy machine because their kitchen isn't complete without one. They are not that fussed about their coffee, they probably go to Starbucks, so they don't make the effort and they only get a mediocre coffee out of their fancy machine. But they're happy with that, so who are we to judge?

Personally, I think those bean-to-cup machines are never any good and I'd insist on a proper old fashioned espresso machine with a separate grinder. Lots cheaper than their setup and much better results. I'm working at a site at the moment that has a £25k coffee machine with a choice of beans and multiple options to tailor your drink. I've played with all the settings and while it's a lot better than the one at my office, it's still not a patch on what I can make at home. But if you're not that fussed about coffee, you probably wouldn't rate my coffee either. 

In reply to Hooo:

People who buy those machines aren't really interested in crafting their own coffee manually, though, they just want to press a button and get one.  If using a cafetiere or filter machine (the latter are VERY cheap, maybe 20-30 quid, and because it's a simple process fancy ones tend not to produce better coffee than cheap ones) is too much effort then a manual grinder and espresso machine definitely will be!

In reply to Deleated bagger:

Bean to cup machines tend to be a bit crap unless you go mega expensive. As in grands. 

Lots of bean to cup machines, aren't doing espresso, and will just be doing a percolation brew or something similar and then generating some fake foam to look like espresso crema. 

I got given a cheap espresso machine, and I bought myself a decent hand grinder and a set of scales, and I've made some really good coffee with it. 

You just gotta accept it'll take you 5 cups or so of each bag of coffee you buy, to get the right grind setting and grams of coffee needed. 

But once you've done that, it's easy enough to get a consistently good cup of coffee. 

Milk steaming also isn't particularly hard. Watched on youtube video on it, and then had it down basically first go. 

But coffee for me, is something to take me away from my computer for a bit. So I like a bit of ceremony. 

In reply to Deleated bagger:

I had a tax rebate 20 years ago after retiring from NZ, where we had developed a taste for really nice coffee... so we bought a Jura F50 machine, which cost high three figures. 

20 years on and it's drawn off in nearly fifty thousand cups of coffee (!) so the cost per cup from the machine is now about 2p. OK coffee and milk and electricity add a bit (!) but overall we have saved a lot of cash, get really spectacularly good coffee, and I think it has had one service and one hose replacement. 

It's mostly about the crema. It's hard to get a really good crema at a low pressure - but you can do it with a bit more faff with a nanopress. And if you are uncertain about what crema is then that's fine, it will save you a fair amount of money!

b

In reply to ben b:

I make that about seven cups a day...

I recently decided that I do quite like a cup of coffee, on the rare occasions I went to coffee shops with friends. So I picked up a '3-cup' moka pot in TK Maxx (£8, I think), and a sieve milk frother pot.

I'm not a great coffee fiend (since I prefer decaf, and buy ground coffee (there is much less choice in decaf ground)). But the moka makes a cup that is nice enough for me, though I'm still dialling down the slight bitterness...

I picked up a Bialetti Venus 10 cup for £3 in a charity shop. I just missed a 4-cup for £1 the other day; I have seen a project to convert one into a milk frother, and £1 seemed a reasonable price for a conversion candidate...

I see Bialetti (who invented the moka pot) do the Brikka, which makes a (low quality) crema...

In reply to captain paranoia:

Which is probably slightly over our average but for many years two dedicated coffee drinkers plus friends/family and 2 years of renovations (including one builder who was long black with seven sugars about 4 times a day!).

If you need to decrease the bitterness, can I suggest an aeropress (either with filter paper or with a 10 quid stainless steel filter) using the inverse brew method? Almost devoid of bitterness and delicious. 

I speak as a reformed addict - I now just drink tea...

b

In reply to Deleated bagger: for context I’m a total coffee snob and over the years owned and enjoyed several espresso machines from cheap to silly expensive , but never had  a bean to cup . I agree with the above post that only the really expensive bean to cup machines make anything like a good coffee . However I did recently have a really nice one made for me on one . What really matters is that the person using the machine really cares about what they are doing. Most coffee snobs ( and there are lots on here ) will say this - good beans , good grinder , whatever method / level of expense floats  your boat and then time . Time spent watching you tube  and time to make it . In a couple of minutes I’ll grind sone beans from sainsburies in a very good grinder and then use an aero press to make my first brew of the day. Try getting an aeropress and some  decent ground coffee , watch a few videos on how to use it and see if you enjoy the result . If not , then maybe it’s not for you .

In reply to mike123: having just made and drunk it , I just thought of sone thing else - a set of cheap digital scales . Weigh the coffee , weigh the water . Pretty simple thing but means you get a consistent result . 

In reply to Deleated bagger:

I won a bean to cup machine in a raffle at work. Could never get a nice cup of coffee out of it so it just sits there seething as I make a Mellow Birds right in its face.

In reply to Deleated bagger:

Like a lot of drinks (whisky & wine come to mind), coffee is susceptible to being "snobified".

I'm not saying that with any disrespect, but the more time you spend thinking "how is this cup of coffee better than that cup of coffee" then the more your palette will be sensitised to any differences and before you know it, you'll be a coffee snob, unable to tolerate instant rubbish and spending loads of money and/or time ensuring your coffee is just right.

It's a slippery slope, go there at your peril.

I haven't succumbed to this with coffee but I've had to do an "ice axe arrest" to stop myself getting too snobby about whisky.

Similar increased sensitivity/snobbery occurs with hi-fi and any form of optics (cameras, scopes, bins), cars, all manner of stuff including climbing gear and all outdoor equipment (how many on UKC must use a mountain tent when a festival tent would do, etc).

All of this is ignoring the fact that with all the above, there are also many fake snobs; I.e. merely "look at me/mine" posers, amongst the true snobs.

It is also quite common to become snobified with more than one thing, especially if you have a surplus of disposable income or complete lack of budgetary control.

Enjoy 😁

In reply to Deleated bagger:

I have 3 grades of coffee in my house.

Instant although a fancy one that has some finely ground coffee in it (Kenco Millicano)

Cafetière (with the fancy grave accent, get me!!), I'm doing it now for the day

Moka Pot, when I need more oomph 

I suspect a lot of the fancier machine owners fall cleanly into 2 categories, crema enthusiasts (understood !) and people who have fancy boiling water taps instead of kettle and bamboo worktops in which case they need an expensive machine to keep up with the Jones's

In reply to Deleated bagger:

Anyone who owns these contraptions (or understands half the guff in these replies) should be put in the stocks and have used teabags thrown at them until they scream

In reply to Deleated bagger:

The best thing to come out of lock down for my was my purchase of a decent E61 coffee machine and taking the time to learn how to make a decent espresso. Foaming milk and latte art is surprisingly difficult but very rewarding once you get the hang of it. 

You'll only really taste the difference if you get a nice bag of fresh medium/light roast single origin beans, and pull a series of espressos with slightly different grinds/extraction times, the taste test them.

They'll vary from bitter, to sour, but just in the sweet spot it'll be transformed and the flavour palette will explode with fruit, chocolate and other things, depending on the bean. It's immensely satisfying once you get it right, although it rather spoils any shop bought coffee and it an undoubted faff.

That said, I regularly drink V60 filter too, where a complete setup will set you back a whole ten pounds. 

In reply to Deleated bagger:

Diminishing returns. I have a decent coffee machine that used grounds (swapped for an unused camera). But based on discussions here bought an aero press. The machine is now in the attic. The aero press is super user friendly, consistent, takes up least room. I usually microwave my milk. Whatever  the opposite of diminishing returns is, then that’s the aeropress. 

Edit: still use ‘posh instant’ a lot though 

In reply to Michael Hood:

I think the what you've describe could be called 'a man thing'. The idea that one can replace natural talent, with expensive kit. Or that, one can make up for other 'inadequacies' by buying the best and talking about it at length, as an expert.

I would wager a cup of artisan cold brew, that the ratio is 20:1 male to female, or more, in some of these topics.

Back on subject...

We have coffee machines at work, that take up a small cupboard, grind the beans, have a choice of oat or cows milk, and several styles of drink. You make your choices using an ipad! We also have a nextpresso, with all the inherent waste lots of little coffee capsules generate. They both produce OK coffee.

I have an aeropress at home which, I think, makes a better brew. But, it wasn't expensive, so what do I know.

In reply to captain paranoia:

There are ways to stop bitterness from moka pot, it comes out in fraction, so it’s about going slow and then pouring coffee sooner than you think before half water come through. Makes a massive difference and with good beans you can still get a great coffee that way 

In reply to monkey man:

Yes, low heat and not letting 'volcano' at the end seem to be the trick.

In reply to dread-i:

My daughter has worked as a barista in a London coffee and cocktail bar (Chapter 72), and when I made her an aero press brew she was presently surprised at the quality. There must be some science going on, coz they do punch above their weight. 

I work with a chap who has a rather fancy coffee machine, allegedly it does everything, if you believe what he says it cost well over £1k. Having listened to how wonderful this thing was for the last few months we had high expectations when we went around for a dinner party one night. 

It was awful. Probably one of the worst coffees I have ever had! But we all politely nodded and agreed that this coffee machine was indeed 'wonderful' and vowed to never spoke a word to one another about it again.  

In his defence, I think its one of those machines that needs a lifetime of experience to use properly and each time you get a different result. At home we have both a filter machine, French press and AeroPress. As its just me drinking it I find a filter machine and French press just too much so normally use the AeroPress. 

I really cant complain. Generally comes out the same each time, easy to use and clean. Take it away at the weekend. I have upgraded it to have the 'flow control cap', no difference in coffee but it saves the hassle of spilling it everywhere.  

I have always been tempted by one of those portable expresso machines but it just sounds like a lot of faff really. 

In reply to Michael Hood:

Gotta drink the horrible stuff to appreciate the good stuff.

https://youtu.be/tU1y7hBSgiY?si=WRZ2Rq08voGosZEd

Guru Hoffmann on drinking bad coffee...

In reply to captain paranoia:

Assuming you are starting with boiling water in the chamber too? I have a Brikka which, though aesthetically pleasing having the "faux crema", it doesn't change the taste or mouth feel....

I would love to faff with a proper grinder and espresso machine but have neither the budget nor workshop space.

Good beans (aka beans I like), a manual grinder, a moka pot, an aeropress and my new stovetop milk frother both make good enough for me coffee as well as scratch the itch for faff that keeps me entertained on a Saturday morning when the family are yet to get up and the kitchen is momentarily my oasis of calm.

In reply to dread-i:

There's a massive step up in price of coffee machines when you get to something that can steam milk and make espresso, which AIUI is basically because these two things involve doing stuff boiling water at high pressure in very controlled ways. OTOH, my experience has always been that that's only really relevant if you actually want foamy milk and/or espresso-based drinks. Otherwise, for my money, you're fine with a filter or an aeropress or similar. Even in a very coffee-geek oriented cafe, I tend to find that a pourover made with a £40 Chemex brewer is more to my tastes - a bit brighter and more flavourful - than the Americano made on the £10,000 La Marzocco or Slayer espresso machine.

In reply to Michael Hood:

I had a former colleague who insisted that beans must be freshly roasted otherwise it wasn't worth drinking. He got up early before work every day to roast his beans and brew a flask of coffee for the day.

In reply to galpinos:

Hot, not boiling.

In reply to Deleated bagger:

I have a fancy coffee machine.  I bought it on the basis that I could dial in repeatable process, quickly, while getting ready for work.  I chuck it into a large insulated mug and it lasts me all morning until at least lunchtime.  It’s not about posing, the coffee tastes better than the Costa at work and eventually it will save me money over what I was paying for Costas.

The machine has a variety of settings, so coupled with bean variety and the choices in how to apply all this, it’s super easy to make a bad cup!  It took some dialling in to make it consistently how I like it.

I used an Aeropress and a stand alone grinder for years and that was great.  But the Aeropress seals wear out, it’s just a little messier and not quite as quick as the fancy machine.  But they do a great job and are fantastic value.

I find instant coffee tastes horrid by comparison, so I’ve somehow turned into a coffee snob.

In reply to Deleated bagger:

I must ask my butler what he uses. 

In reply to Bottom Clinger:

It's little more than a fancy filter device, really, though it'll be a bit different because there's *some* pressure it's only a couple of PSI above atmospheric so it won't make that much difference.

Filter coffee can be pretty good.  Personally I think it tastes better than a Costalottabucks Americano (as it's really quite hard to get it wrong), and its consistent availability is pushing me towards Tim Horton's over the Bucks who advertise it but rarely actually have it on (and now won't do you an Americano for the price of a filter like they used to if it isn't on).  It's also rather quick to serve.

In reply to Deleated bagger:

You're probably not taste blind. You can spend as much as you like on a machine but mediocre coffee in = mediocre coffee out.

Many people seem to obsess over coffee machines. I suspect they just like gadgets and/or showing off. I've always found it strange that people would spend £££s on a fancy machine and then cheap out with supermarket coffee.

The only requirements for good coffee are that you have good quality coffee, roasted in the last month, ground just before brewing with a good grinder. After that you can go as cheap or expensive with your brew method as you like, as long as you know what you're doing. 

You'd be surprised how different coffee can taste. As an experiment, seek out your local hipster cafe, most big towns have one now. Look out for the one that serves overpriced filter coffee and try that.

In reply to nathan79:

Laughed out loud at this. All that effort to make fresh coffee and then leave it stewing in a flask all day? I'd rather have freshly made from Tesco's ground than gourmet coffee that's hours old!

And any Barrista will tell you, you never want coffee from just-roasted beans. They need to off-gas for a few days before they're useable.

In reply to captain paranoia:

I have a brikka. It no longer makes any kind of crema. 

The coffee is nice though. 

Another vote for Aeropress for day to day coffee.  Even Aldi decaf tastes just fine

In reply to Deleated bagger:

I used to love setting up the big old Italian machine at work and loved making coffee with it. As others have said, it's a bit of a process and those who love a tinker will love the ritual of it. 

Having said that, the coffee isn't noticeably better than an Aeropress (second-hand for <£20) and you can make decent milk with a battery-operated milk-frother (~£10) and a microwave (probably already have).  

In reply to Deleated bagger:

I have a coffee machine (bean to cup) - it is convenient for me, allows me to drink c. > 9 coffees a day with little hassle and easier than my olde cafetière.  It was much much less than £1000 (though a fair age now so maybe it would be more if bought now).
 

It does come with a side helping of shame when offering coffee to people who aren’t middle class hybrid/home workers, but I think if it broke I’d definitely buy another. 

In reply to Michael Hood:

Thanks for that. You've just spoiled so many of the thinks (I thought) I enjoyed.

In reply to J72:

I have a Krups, which was a freebie as a mate was throwing it out (think the current version is about £90). Basically an espresso machine with a milk frother.

No expensive grinder, just bought a cheap choppy thing.

Purists may grimace, but I'm surprised how good the end result is.

In reply to Ridge:

You've probably caused a few faces to turn inside out. Personally, I brew it up in a plastic jug before putting it in a flask. I do warm the flask up beforehand so I'm not a complete Philistine.

In reply to Lankyman:

Always warm the flask!

In reply to captain paranoia:

Maybe my taste is different but I've never found Moka Pot excessively bitter? It does need a brief stir in the top once finished, as first and last coffee is very different.

Using Supermarket Lavazza Crème e Gusto and a standard Bialetti pot on the hob, filled base with hot water from kettle speeds up the process (careful, don't burn hands when screwing it closed). Think what I'm doing is totally standard?

I do really dislike sour fruity robusta coffees that many others seem to love paying a fortune for in awful McDonald's of coffee places (Costa, Starbucks, etc), so maybe it's me?

In reply to Deleated bagger:

Having read the thread, I think (hope?) that I'm on the right track with my coffee. Due to severe arthritis in my wrist, I have had to retire my hand grinder and just got an electric grinder. They are soooo good, although a little expensive! Different beans appear to require different grinds, which is always nice to test out. Goes into the aeropress, stirred then squashed after around 30 seconds. Milk heated in the cup in the microwave. Beans generally from Costco, I like them and they are a good price. 

Also have a Bialetti moka pot. Use hot water, then pour as soon as it makes the hissy sound. Still trying different coffees with this, as I don't use it often.

This all feels like refining what is already a good product. Years back, Lyon House shops were where you could get a 'decent' coffee. Now, there is more than adequate coffee pretty much everywhere. It's not Nescafe!

In reply to CantClimbTom:

It's not excessively bitter. It's just a little more bitter than a coffee shop. Still not sure if it's the coffee or my technique, or a basic issue with a moka.

In reply to CantClimbTom:

I'm struggling to unpick this, to be honest. The sour fruity coffees are almost always pure arabica beans - it's typically more traditional dark-roast blends that have a bit of robusta in, because it often improves crema in an espresso plus it's cheaper and the darker roast covers the fact that it doesn't taste as good in itself.

On the other hand, I love sour (well, let's say "bright") fruity coffees and Costa and Starbucks is the polar opposite of that - at best you get something that tastes like bitter dark chocolate, at worst like charcoal.

I've always found in the past that moka pots work fine with fairly traditional dark-roasted blends, but struggled to get anything nice out of them with lighter roast beans. I'm sure it's possible if you dial in your weights and grinds and process really well, but in practice I'd rather just use an Aeropress or a pourover or even a cafetiere, which I can get good results from pretty easily.

In reply to Deleated bagger:

It seems like coffee only gets really expensive when you start trying to make espresso, because of the need of good grinders that can grind very fine, and the need of machines capable of creating consistent high pressure steam.

I have an aeropress, V60, mocha pot and a decent grinder that all cost less than around £100. This lets me make really nice coffee.

I save espresso and flat whites etc for coffee shops

In reply to Ridge:

I'm going to be really unpopular here, but I've given up on freshly ground coffee and just drink instant these days. Black, no sugar.

Cheap instant like Nescafe original is absolute crap. Can't stand it.

But the more premium stuff like Kenco Millicano taste much better than a mediocre ground coffee. If you walk into Starbucks or Costa, and order a black coffee, it's not as good as an instant Kenco Millicano or similar. They are cheaping out on somehting, and their coffee is bitter.

Now, with good quality beans, and a good quality grinder with correct brewing times you can do better than the instant, but I just don't think it's worth the faff when the good quality instant tastes so good with no effort.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

Agree with you here, it confused me too. Starbucks claim 100% Arabica (I assume it the over roasting* that makes it taste so bad) and Costa is a mix of Arabica and Robusta but tastes better, imho, than Starbucks. Caffe Nero is the best of the high street chains imo.

*Is the reason Starbucks coffee is so over roasted/bitter because American coffee traditionally has sat on a hot plate for as good hour and is bitter and rank so if their coffee was a lighter roast, Americans wouldn't associate it with "real coffee"? I have a penchant for coffee tasting of coffee so an insipid thin coffee made using a V60 with very light roast with too many fruity tones does not float my boat but Starbucks is still too much for my palate. 

In reply to galpinos:

I’ve always assumed these chains used dark roast beans because most of their punters take milk (or all milk, syrups, flavourings, cream) so it is needed to cut through all that and still taste coffee-ish 

In reply to J72:

Maybe their punters take syrups, flavourings & cream to mask the terrible charcoal 'roast'... So maybe it's a policy to sell more expensive drinks. As my Italian colleague reminded me, an espresso isn't a drink...

In reply to Deleated bagger:

I can't stand instant coffee and love a flat white.  Have a £250ish DeLonghi Dedica that Coffee enthusiasts will tell you is rubbish as it has a pressurised cup, that aside I make a a pretty spot on flat white with it, to the point that at least 3 of my friends have gone out and bought the same make and model.

Good for keen coffee drinkers, not for aficionados.  I recommend it. 

In reply to J72:

Starbucks is the coffee shop for people who don't like coffee. Their customers want a hot flavoured milkshake. The beans are overroasted so that they can use less of them, and so reduce costs. I read somewhere that a standard Starbucks drink is made with around half the amount of coffee a proper coffee shop would use. Caveat - I can't be arsed to verify that claim so it should be taken with a pinch of salt, but it would make sense.

In reply to Deleated bagger:

I don’t drink coffee but I get really pissed off when one is used in a cafe and all conversation is drowned out for 30s by the noise of the grinding process.  It is possible to control sound…

In reply to Deleated bagger:

Is anyone going to mention coffee pods? More of my friends seem to be moving towards them. I’m not a coffee snob, (Tesco Italian ground coffee in an aeropress) is good enough but I have never had a good cup of coffee from a pod, are they all marketing BS?

In reply to ablackett:

I have a cheap £30 Dolce Gusto machine on which I do Cappuccino - costs between 40-50p per mugful.

No doubt it's crap in absolute coffee terms but it's better than instant, close enough to the milky type coffee I prefer (that's probably heresy I've just committed) and because coffee is something where I've avoided the slippery snobbery slope, it's good enough for me. 

In reply to ablackett:

I think the taste if pods are taste great, it's just an expensive way of drinking 10 cups of coffee a day (8 of which are decaf, a necessary lifestyle change I made several years ago).

In reply to Lankyman:

Would it be better to use Aldi or Waitrose tea bags?

In reply to Hooo:

I guess that would reduce bitterness...

In reply to Michael Hood:

I used the coffee from a pod in my moka, and one in the machine at work; couldn't tell much difference.

In reply to montyjohn:

What? Do you need more caffeine, or less..

In reply to montyjohn:

We used to get free instant coffee at work. A guy insisted on bringing in his own Millicano and offered me a cup. To me it just tasted like crap instant.

 At home I use an Aeropress with Aldi Italian most days.. I've got two Mokka pots and a cheap Krups machine which steams milk if I have guests.

For flasks or multi-day backpacking I use Taylors hot lava java bags.

I couldn't visit Starbucks due to tax evasion, cafe Nero seems to serve the best chain coffee.

In reply to Hooo:

They certainly do most drinks single-shot whereas others more commonly give you two.

In reply to Sam Beaton:

Aldi Gold are surprisingly good, one of the nicest I've had.

In reply to Pedro50:

If they're anything like the ground hot lava java then won't you be getting a bit of a caffeine hit; with that much "zing" you should be able to get your multi-day done in a single day 😁

In reply to Michael Hood:

It's good stuff isn't it.

In reply to Pedro50:

Oh I only had it once years ago, nice flavour but way too much caffeine for me.

In reply to ablackett:

Interesting. A neighbour has a coffee pod machine and I to say the end product tastes of pretty much nothing. 

In reply to Ramblin dave:

Starting with hot water (so the beginning of the extraction doesn't happen at a much lower temperature) and stopping the brew progressing too far are even more important with lighter roasts in a mokka pot.

A lot of people tend to grind finer than is necessary, and overfill the basket too.

Get it right and you can make something really tasty with light roasts. You can still get a lot of the sweetness, acidity and fruitiness, but with a bit more body than you get with filter methods. Add in an aeropress filter on top of the basket, and you can approach the clarity and sweetness of a pourover or an aeropress.

In reply to Neil Williams:

That would explain what I heard about them using half the amount of coffee then. That's a bloody weak drink going by the size of a regular latte if it's only got one shot in it. I don't do milk in coffee myself, so I've never tried one.

In reply to Pedro50:

IMHO Cafe Nero were the best chain about 20 years ago, but nowadays they're no better than the others. Black Sheep is my favourite chain. Incidentally their standard espresso is 100% Robusta. Robusta used to be derided as junk used for cheap instant, or in a small amount to add a kick. So it's interesting that they can make a really good espresso out of it.

In reply to Hooo:

There are some producers making high quality robustas. Just not many.

I haven't personally enjoyed any of the supposedly good quality robustas that I've tried (probably not that surprising given that I tend to like very fruity, floral or boozy light roasts) but some people rave about them.

In reply to Deleated bagger:

Nespresso is pretty good but you do have to bear in mind that it's mostly about espresso - even the longest coffee is only supposed to be about 125ml (it's a Swiss invention, and the Swiss follow the Italian approach of not having massive coffees unlike the Americans and us).  If you stick two in a mug and top up with hot water it does give you a decent Americano, or whatever.

Most of the clone pod machines are nowhere near as good.

In reply to montyjohn:

Nah no chance. The difference between an actual espresso machine (like a modded gaggia classic) using some recently roasted good coffee is like another drink compared to instant. 

In reply to Deleated bagger:

Which raises the oblique  question of which kettle do you use for boiling water for your tea. Is it loose leaf tea or bags and how long do you let your tea brew for?

In reply to neilh:

Fair point😬

In reply to Deleated bagger:

I'm going to take the opportunity here to say that THE​​​​ best espresso I've had in the UK is from a cafe called Birch, in Portree. Please all go and make sure I always have a quality caffeine stop on Skye. They really know their stuff. 

In reply to Deleated bagger:

You can spend a fortune fcking around with beans and machines, or just get a tea pot and make a proper drink.

In reply to Philip:

You can go just as far down the tea rabbit hole as the coffee one if you're so inclined.

There's not as much expensive gear needed for fancy teas as fancy coffees. But fancy tea leaves cost a lot more than their equivalent coffee beans.

I find I use a lot more variation in brew methods with different teas than I do with pourover coffees. I have teas that I brew at 100°C, and teas that I brew at 50°C. With coffee, pretty much every bean I use gets an 80°C bloom, then just off the boil for the rest.

There is the grind size to factor in with coffee too, but it doesn't vary too much from bean to bean if you don't get into espresso. I could not touch the dial on my grinder for a year and I'd only miss out on marginal gains for most beans.

Or in the office, I make do with a Yorkshire teabag or Nescafé instant.

In reply to Deleated bagger:

I love coffee and I've had fancy coffee machines in the past but now make my coffee at home with an Aeropress, which produces a lovely cup of coffee. More importantly however, is that fact that the Aeropress was a gift from my late son, who passed away last year aged 26. Consequently, when carrying out the ritual of coffee making, I feel a real connection to him. He was passionate about good coffee and would have loved the locally roasted and ground Black Mountain Roast coffee I drink.

In reply to blackmountainbiker:

Sorry to hear about your son. What you say resonates with me, albeit in a way different to you. I ended up with a La Pavoni espresso coffee machine soon after my Dad died, when I was still in my 20s. I bought it to remember him, with money he had left me. Thirty plus years later, I still always think of him when I use it or even look at it.

A bit like Dad was, it can be great but also awkward to handle.  On days when I am not up to it, I just look at it, think of him, and use my stove top thingy. 

In reply to Philip:

I agree. Nothing like a good teabag to get you up in the morning.

In reply to Deleated bagger:

I've modernised and updated my coffee drinking.

I buy instant coffee:- Put coffee in mug, Boil a kettle.  Pour into coffee mug.  Hey presto.  Up to date and cheap.  Takes up little room and doesn't break down.

In reply to Billhook:

Heathen! Pre-warm the mug using steam from the kettle for the perfect mug of steaming horse p!ss.

In reply to climb the peak:

Ditto. 

In coffee shops I have even become the awkward bugger… I take a single shot espresso but fill it to the top of the wee cup with hot water. It’s basically half an American but the taste is (usually) so much better. 

At home, its a small Moka with a dark roast (Costa signature blend is fine) and in the van its an aero or french press, or both

I only have a couple a day now, one of which is now decaf, so it HAS to be as nice as possible. 

Coffee is such an addictive thing, in so many ways