UKH

So we have been practicing falling in our local indoor wall and I'm wondering how many times you can do this before you knacker your rope?

Ive calculated the fall factor as 13 metres of rope out total with a max fall of three metre which gives 3/13=FF0.2....Is that correct?

If so, is a 0.2 fall going to damage the rope significantly?

Thanks.

In reply to GoneFishing111:

Keen sport climbers will sometimes take that kind of benign fall dozens of times in a session, several or more times a week, potentially for months on the same rope. If you get anywhere near those kind of numbers you may find the rope starts to get stiffer and more difficult to handle, in which case you might want to consider replacing it even though there will be precious little chance of it actually being dangerous to use. But I suspect most people's fall practice won't come anywhere near to having any observable effect at all on the safety or usability of the rope.

One thing you might want to keep in mind is that, after a decent fall, the rope will take a while to 'recover', so if you're taking hefty falls on the same rope within minutes of each other you might want to alternate the end of the rope you're tying into, to give each end a bit longer to recover.

In reply to john arran:

Thanks, just the advice i needed, we shall carry on!!

In reply to GoneFishing111:

When I did a lot of fall practice some years ago, I'd take anywhere between 3 and 10+ falls in a session, twice a week. Normally, there would be damage on the sheath after a few months , which I'd then cut, and eventually I'd replace the rope after about 10 months when it becomes too short to climb on the local wall.

If fear of falling is a major weaknesses this is a very cheap price to pay to becoming a confident leader which is not a quick fix.

A good idea to prolong time is not to take too many repeated hard catches on the same end and run it through a couple of times each session.

Good luck, stay safe and enjoy your air time.

In reply to zmv:
This is exactly why I'm doing it, i only started climbing this year and have managed to onsight a handful of VS routes and even one HVS5a but for some reason lately i am repeatedly bailing off routes and barely leading HS....my mental game has gone.

Off to the lakes tomorrow, lets see if it has helped!

In reply to GoneFishing111:

This is excellent progress for a year. Don't push it too much on trad though. Huge difference between bolts and gear you've just placed. Unless you are 100% sure the gear is bomber and you are safe, you are basically soloing.

I hardly ever trad climb these days so not the best person to be giving advice!

In reply to GoneFishing111:

My very strong advice to you is this: drop your trad grade to Severe or V Diff. Do loads and loads and loads of 'em. Do 'em until they're coming out of your ears. Do 'em on as many rock types as you can.

You'll develop steadiness, you'll develop technique, your gear placements will improve. Above all, your subconscious (which is keeping a watchful eye over you!), will relax. You'll naturally go back up to Hard Severe, VS, HVS and beyond.

Think of it as building a pyramid, with your top grade as the apex. A high, thin pyramid? Not good. A deep, wide pyramid - that's what you want. Why? Because, in trad, the acid test is rarely your hardest lead. Very often, it's when a load of things go against you. For instance, you get on a sandbag, it's not your style anyway, you haven't got the right cam size, there's a wet streak across the crux. When that kind of situation happens (and it will), a wide, deep pyramid is your very best friend.

Falling practice is great for being relaxed in a situation where it's OK to fall. In trad, you also need steadiness for those situations where falling simply isn't a viable option.

Good luck!

Mick

P.S. If you need confirmation, look at Goucho's ticklist on here. He was doing up to E6 onsight over 30 years ago. Impressive now - and bloody impressive then! He only ever took a few falls. The strategy above is essentially the one he followed.

In reply to zmv:

Totally disagree. If you're placing gear and you're not happy to fall on it, why are you placing it? 99% of trad routes have plenty of good gear. Try hard, and fall off. All you lose in your onsight, which only really serves to boost your ego.

That said, there is the occasional route you really don't want to fall off, and if you lack confidence that your gear placements will function then perhaps some formal instruction is in order.

In reply to Mick Ward:

Cheers,

I don't really have an issue with placing gear, i find that pretty straightforward but i will heed your advice and drop back my grades.

My partner and I have a routine were we start out on v-diff/severe and slowly work up to a climb we have our eye on i.e.: a VS etc, it seems to work.

I often find that stresses and worries in daily life that affect my general confidence usually transfer over to my climbing ability.

In reply to ianstevens:
I do agree with you however I am reluctant to encourage a totally go for it attitude in trad for someone that has climbed less than a year.

In reply to GoneFishing111:

You don't want to feel relaxed about falling off trad, lot of variables could make that painful.
At the wall, better practicing holding on for grim death than falling off.
In the real world, down climbing ability, big rack and and a funky approach to gear placement will all help.
Double ropes, tiny cams and skinny 60cm slings

In reply to GoneFishing111:

Look at the ages of those advising you to fall more. You will probably find that they are at the younger end of the age spectrum when you feel indestructible. We've all been there. Wiser, older heads will be more cautious, we have learnt, sometimes the hard way, that we are not.

Al

In reply to GridNorth:

Indeed it's back to that saying about being either a bold or old climber, rarely both. Mick's advice about broad pyramids will yield the OP a lifetime of results.

In reply to GoneFishing111:

I really wouldn't go chucking yourself off vs's or hvs's.

You might not hit the floor but you will hit hard things on the way down which will hurt a lot, pretty much guaranteed.

In reply to ianstevens:


Worrying advice there for the OP. Listen to the experienced hands like Mick Ward and Gridnorth instead.

I place gear where I find it. If it looks and feels good I'll push things a bit with greater confidence. If it looks and feels poor I'll take great care and back off if necessary. But I'll still place it. Better a 50% chance it will hold me than no chance at all if I don't place it. If it looks like a hard sequence coming up, there's no bomber gear to be found, but I can get three or four 50% placements in, then that's what I'll do - but I'll still take great care.

BTW, I take one proper leader fall about every 5 years on average - around 10 such in total. (probably coming up for my next one some time soon.....) . There'll be those who'll say I've not tried hard enough - lifetime max leading grade E2 - but those who take trad leader falls every time they go out are in danger of losing much more than their onsight I fear. Their choice of course.

Martin

In reply to GoneFishing111:

Mick Ward's advice is spot on. I've climbed with Mick he knows what he is talking about. Whilst I don't have any issues with people taking falls in a controlled environment i.e. indoors and to some extent outdoor sport I do not let people who practice this habit frequently use my rope. Used in this way it doesn't take too long for the rope to become unpleasant to handle. Advising someone to not fear falling on trad is irresponsible. Yes gear is better but things go wrong. I lost a friend earlier this year because his rope was cut over a sharp edge when he fell. This guy climbed E5 and was very competent. Never get cavalier about falling on trad. Most people falling regularly are falling into space on sports routes but I would doubt very much that you are in that league. You need Micks pyramid and lots of experience to know when it is safe to push it.

Al

In reply to GoneFishing111:

IMHO the mark of a good climber is their ability to get themselves out of trouble. Falling off is seldom the best option, although it may be the only one. Place good gear, get the miles in, learn to reverse things that you find hard to climb, then you may have the judgement to accept a fall as a reasonable option (and probably be climbing something hard enough for there not to be much to hit on the way down).

In reply to GoneFishing111:

Thanks for the replies, far to many to reply individually.....but....i have no intentions of chucking myself off trad routes?

My aim is to climb them clean and move above gear confidently.

I climb way more easy stuff than top of my ability routes, climbing at my limit all the time is not how i want to spend my days at the crag but i do appreciate the advice.

Cheers everyone.