UKH

I haven’t been to  The Cuttings since 2016, when I first started climbing regularly outdoors. My memory was that I did not like climbing here. “But hey”, I thought when looking at the forecast and seeing it was the only place likely to be sheltered from howling winds, “I was young an inexperienced then, perhaps it’s fine”.

WRONG. 

The routes are sandbagged, polished, and rubbish. To make matters worse, new lines have been shoved in at various points - leading me to stick my girlfriend on what I thought was a 4+ but was a hard 5c, resulting in some drama and the first tears of a new leader (I know it’s a process most people have to go through, but I wish we had got some more fall practice in first)  

Disclaimer: I was carrying a steaming hangover and just generally feeling awful so perhaps I also have myself to add to the equation. But regardless, yesterday confirmed for me that I HATE The Cuttings  I swear to never go back - I’d rather not climb at all, or just deal with the wind at Blacknor or Battleship.

Which leads me to ask: what other crags do people hate, and refuse anymore to go to?

Cheddar is one of my least favourite places* (I know, this is heresy to some people) - I've found it often greasy, over-vegetated, scary in parts because of cars/ people below at times, loose in parts. For me, there's always somewhere better to go

*Apart from the amazing world-class Coronation Street of course

Climbing polished limestone makes me feel depressed. Malham, Stoney, whatever - take yer pick.

Almscliff

though I still keep going there...

I saw the title and immediately thought of the Cuttings as well. It's just too polished to be enjoyable. It's the only crag in the UK that I particularly disliked. Some of the Southern Sandstone crags also feel well past their best but I still had some enjoyable days there. 

So you turned up hungover and didn't check the line in the guide properly, and somehow it's the crags fault and your solution is never to go to there again?

I've never found much merit in the lowest grades at the cuttings, the 5/6s are indifferent, but some of the 7s are pretty good.

I'm struggling to think of much where I'd rather not climb at all than go there. Sure, plenty of places I wouldn't bother to travel far for, but that's not really what you mean is it. Stood at the bottom, with the choice to climb or walk away.....

Plenty of days I'm just not that arsed - tired or whatever - but that's my head not the rock.

Never liked Black Rocks for some reason 

True. If you're a philistine.

After one trip to Horseshit Quarry I've never felt compelled to return.

CHUDLEIGH!

I can remember climbing routes there and watching myself in the mirrored polish.

He never said he rather wouldn't climb than go there but I bet he would have preferred taking his girlfriend indoors. 

Seconded

Simonds Yat. Dank, crumbly and horrible

Another vote for that.

Add the slippery muddy approaches and descents and its all a bit meh

His quote says:

I feel like that nearly exactly says "he rather wouldn't climb than go there", doesn't it? I'm puzzled as to how you've read that and concluded something so different...

And overrun with idiots. 

Although Whitt (VS 4c) is great, worth a trip for that one.

Fair enough. I remember reading it but not coming away with that impression. The references to the other crags threw me. 

Fortunately, climbing isn't the 'cuttings or nothing'. 

*****Munches popcorn********

Agden Roacher.

There's one crack route on there we enjoyed but the rest is a total rubble fest with crap protection, rubbish belays at the top and green rock. The only thing in its favour is the views over the valley. Next time I go there it will be for a picnic.

Any Lancashire quarry. 

I'll vote for the cuttings too - truly terrible. And Simonds yat comes a close second. Leigh Quarry in the Mendips is shit too. I can understand Cheddar, although to my mind it's misdemeanors mainly in the form of being sandbagged, terrifying horror shows are part of the charm, and the positions you get into are second to none. The sport climbing is quite average though. 

Now then, I'm going to be bloody controversial and go with Stanage as my own nomination. Hear me out. It's just so massively over rated. The view is goodish, although I've seen better. The rock is not as good as granite in any shape or form, the routes are too short, it's overcrowded, when it's not overcrowded it's because its because its colder than a witches tit, I don't find the climbing that fun, and it induces hour long discussions amongst climbers about how fabulous it is. On top of that these climbers then go abroad and prattle on to europeans and Americans about how great it is so that when ever you say you come from the UK people almost immediately ask you about Stanage and the Peak. Not once has anyone asked me about Cornwall, or North Wales or Scotland. 

I'll chip in anything on Dartmoor... sharp blood-letting holds and often uninspiring.

Cleeve Hill.

Just no.

~~~Brave man. Popcorn's out~~~

(And I nearly nominated "Cloggy" as a joke reply)

To be fair to Stanage it is one of the better London commuter belt crags, and it does serve a valuable purpose as one of the UKs premiere weekend grockle magnets 

You can't just go with a straight no, mainly because the thread is entitled Crag you hate the most, i.e. it needs to be the crag YOU hate the most. And to persuade me otherwise you'll need to convince me which part of my argument is incorrect. I'll go further than this having taken a quick peak at your profile. You're obviously a competent dude. Best climbing experience, Three Pebble Slab? Are you shitting me? 

Does that include or exclude dewerstone?

Not really 'on' the moor. There's some good lines there but in a couple of visits you'll have done all the good stuff.

I had the misfortune to live in Worcester for 3 years once and I went to Cleeve Hill more than once and thought it was ok.  Ivy Scar Rock on the other hand........

Sacrilege! I'll set Offwidth on you...

Probably depends where you're driving from.. If it's further south than, say, Milan, then you might have a point. 

That's dusty, blocky limestone that you find at Ban-y-Gor, Llangattock and Head of the Valleys is always difficult to enjoy. No real lines and always feels lichenous and greasy.

Schist can be the nicest rock, with amazing textures but the crags are so shapeless and the climbing so convoluted and hard to read that they have never seemed as much fun as they should. Dunkeld, Sma Glen, Craig Mor, Glen Croe, Glen Lednock and, dare I say it, Polldudh always seem like a waste of a dry day and never quite worth the effort, the midges and the tics.

Saying that, I'll climb just about anything anywhere, except maybe the Cutttings.

IIt's only because either none of thes people have climbed at Stannington Ruffs or they have and are dammed diseminating liars and fools.

I can see why Agden is a bit marmite but our friend is telling porkies trying to be funny.

Such UKC 'whats worst?'  threads annoy me as I often love climber's humour but this just makes it look silly and hateful. 

Avon gorge. Polished, yet somehow also manages to be loose.

I've still managed to avoid the temptation to try Stannington. There's plenty more esoterica to get through before I have to resort top that one!

Stannington Ruffs really are poor. I've climbed on a lot of crap cliffs and without a doubt they are some of the worst.

I think the proximity to good climbing might make them seem crapper than they actually are though.

I intend never to return.

Agden Rocher on the other hand is great.

If you hadn't suggested it already, then I would have.  I've tried to like gritstone, but it's just sandstone that thinks it's hard (geologists: I know).  Give me limestone, or anything igneous, or just plain sandstone and that's fine.  Gritstone?  Well there's nothing wrong in supporting your local crag when the merits of each are discussed, and I get the part gritstone's played in the development of climbing and climbers both, but as a pleasurable climbing experience then no thanks, not for me.  And Stanage least of all. 

T.

I am hoping to make a pilgrimage to the ruffs this year. I believe that I have probably climbed worse but want to make sure.

You hate Stanage more than any other cliff? It takes all sorts I guess.

Chris

I must be at odds with a lot of people on here.

I really like Symonds yat and polished limestone. Yeah there are some shit routes but there are some really nice lines if u look.

Worst crag got to be Llangattock just because it's blood scary be laying off twigs at the top 

Oh my God I thought I was alone! 

Ivy Scar is rock in an area without huge amounts of rock. If you think that is bad try the sandstone cliffs around Stourport and Bewdley - it's rock in the literally loosest sense of the term.

Personally climbing is climbing - sometimes you do it in funny places but that's half the fun. I used to be a semi regular visitor to Käärmekallio in North Helsinki. It's granite road cut in parts, it is separated from the Finnish equivalent of the M25/M1 interchange by cycle paths and a few trees. Its name literally means "snake rock" so you might get bitten by an adder but far more likely is you get hit by beer bottles being lobbed by pissed 16 years olds drinking at the top. It also get redecorated with graffiti regularly. But it's climbing and if you go under one of the motorways there is an IKEA on the other side so you can have cheap meatballs and mash or a 50c ice cream cone. What's not to love?

Black Cliff Quarry

Utterly awful. Completely overgrown, loose rock, next to the road, with mediocre climbing at best. 

Castle Rock, Gloucestershire is no where near the top 1,000 crags of the UK, but if you live in Cheltenham and only have a short time to get out on a sunny summer's evening it can make for an enjoyable evening.

Brownstones.  Crap Lancashire quarried grit with graffiti, swampy landings and heathery top outs.

Bas Cuvier.  Super polished.  Queuing to have a go at La Marie Rose and the risk of running into doggers.

The Cuttings weren't polished when I was last there.

Perhaps the fact this was in 1978 might have something to do with it

We only ended up there because the sea was too big to climb at Swanage. This was of course way, way before bolts arrived in Portland.

There were one or two trad routes at Blacknor but they were seriously scary looking.

My log does note the poor rock, rattly pro and loose exits - yes you had to top out. Both the routes we did were graded MVS but I think today's wall bred climber would have struggled with the non technical aspects; i.e. they would have shat themselves

Stanage is only good for volume, the climbing is very similar throughout bar the odd curveball and given it’s length it’s actually pretty short on quality away from the ‘classics’ which are all overgraded anyway. If I were to be harsh, of course. 

It's just distinctly average and hate the hype. I can honestly say I've never had a particularly good day out there that made me just think "wow" and get bored to the back teeth of listening to others go on about it... Give me Chair Ladder or Bosigran any day of the week...

The trouble is, Beardy, that most people can't get to Chair Ladder or Bosigran 'any day of the week'.

Bram Crag Quarry. 

That's what makes Stanage a favourite crag. There's hundred and hundreds of routes, with all the polished classics lined up and lots of hidden corners to discover when you're bored of those.

That's patently untrue. How can a roof be like a slab be like a jamming crack be like an arete be like a chimney?

For the sheer amount of stuff to do that's extremely accessible, there's nowhere like it in the country. But it's a outcrop outside Sheffield - it's nothing like going to an adventurous sea cliff or remote mountain crag.

If you live locally, nothing's ever going to come close for day after day of soloing after work, relaxed bouldering with friends, brick-shitting highballing, intense bold leads, onsight solos of iconic routes, grim struggles up vile man-eating fissures, etc, etc. It's a playground with a staggering number of toys and those who've driven for hours to do some polished classics and then bugger off again aren't ever going to understand what it's like to get to know the place. Discover an obscure gem off the beaten track on pristine rock, cruise up it in perfect conditions as the sun's setting on a winter afternoon with no one in sight, and you might start to get a glimpse of why Stanage is so special for those who have a relationship with the place. 

And after a few visits you've done everything that's not plastered in sea-pubes.

Um, yeah, OK. So when you say nothing is ever going to come close, you’re seriously suggesting that living near any major climbing area isn’t going to be as good as living near Stanage? That living, I don’t know, in Penzance is going to be more rubbish than living near Stanage? Or Font. Or J-Tree. Or Redrocks... I mean even Bristol is stacked out with great quality crags. Just because there are lots of routes doesn’t mean that all the routes are good or even close to good, it just means that numerically there are a lot.

Oooooooh we’re going there? Sea pubes? Even with sea pubes it’s better than Stanage.

They're fantastic crags, there just aren't very many routes. And they need traffic otherwise they're totally unclimbable due to the pubes. 

If everyone was as relaxed about what constitutes a distinct route as they are in the peak you could quadruple the route density of most crags overnight.

Soloing and bouldering are as important to me as trad climbing so Cornwall wouldn't suit me as somewhere to live. As for Bristol - wtf? Urban polished limestone, are you taking the piss? 

Where I am now, I've got loads of great after-work and short session stuff as well as trad, but it's spread out over loads of crags. There isn't anywhere I can go several times a week and still discover new things, not even the magnificent  Windmore End (second only to Stanage).

Maybe we should change route naming conventions down here and split routes into 15-25m sections and individually names them to up the count.

It's impossible to hate Stannington Ruffs though, the whole crag revels in its own crapness. It kind of exudes an endearing atmosphere of complete indifference/ambivalence to its status as a 'crag'. It seems suprised that you want to actually climb there, and suffers your chalky attentions with a bemused but benign smirk, thinking "Fool, leave me to the moss, the woodpeckers and the abandoned domestic appliances"

A crag worthy of Hate has to be one that thinks its big and hard but is just a little scrote crag. Horseshoe has no pretension to greatness, if you are there you are consenting to mediocrity and have no business hating the place. I struggle to think of one but The Cuttings fits the Bill better than any. A sea cliff that can't be arsed to be next to the sea, a rural crag that gets it's share of burnt out cars yet also an urban crag that masquerades scrubby bushes as lush vegetation. Feral pigeons and Feral youth both accomodated at the clifftop. Routes that promise much but can't hold a candle to their Western cousins. Yep, if one UK crag was to be turned to aggregate tomorrow I'd be sublimely indifferent to it being the Cuttings. Spit me off a grade 2 will ya, ya bastard. Yes I broke a hold on Bolts for Nigel and found myself crunched at the bottom, so maybe I bear a grudge.

There is rather more to climbing in Cornwall than Chair Ladder and Bosigran. As a Plymouth based climber, I don't seem to find that I am running out of things to do in Devon and Cornwall. Although I began my climbing as a teenager on Yorkshire gritstone, I do find  the venues, if not the climbing slightly underwhelming these days. Stanage is great in that you can get lots done quickly but is grim in terms of the number of people and the damage to many of the 'classic routes'. It is however no way near my least favourite crag. That is reserved for Horseshoe. One visit in 1995 was enough to convince me that just because you could climb there wasn't a good enough reason to actually do so.

James

Well I did say I was being harsh

But the climbing being a bit samey I’ll stand by. How many pure slabs are there? How many pure cracks are there? Very few at any decent length. Yes there’s quality slabs and cracks but they all tend to be shorter routes that are bettered elsewhere. Stanage is very break to break, it’s the style of the crag. Sure there’s slabs, and cracks, but they’re all interrupted by bloody breaks! Great for gear, and rests, but you’ll never become a master of any particular style with Stanage as a training ground.

Now let me say, sir, that you are a true climber who is so deeply engrossed that all of those disadvantages come to nothing. I personally loathe Ikea and the notion that you can go there for a tea break on a climbing day leaves me palpitating with shock and disbelief; respect.

I would kill to have Stanage as my local crag. But I wouldn't move to Sheffield!

I moved a little out of Sheffield and now Curbar is my local crag. Eeek! 😱

Worst day climbing is better than a day not climbing. Having said that, my vote goes to anything on Southern Sandstone.

this takes some beating:  Eston Nab

Me too! 

You must be joking! If you don't like Dow you don't like climbing... And, as a Cumbrian at heart, if not by birth, I'd say there's nowhere in England better for climbing than the Lakes.

Which is not saying much!

Indeed. Stanage has hundreds of good routes, but all the best grit routes are elsewhere at places like cratcliff and hen cloud. Sadly Yorkshire has neither the volume nor the quality, but at least the boulderings good.

Which reminds me of a crag I really hate: brimham. How can so much rock yield no decent routes? Incredible. 

I think for trad climbing Cornwall is probably the best area in England. But I'd rather live in Cumbria for all the other stuff. 

At least the crags are in condition for a number of days per year that generally gets into double figures. 

Birch Tree Wall?

I must protest, Desperation Crack (HVS 5b) entertained both myself, and the audience that I amassed! 

It isn't impossible to hate the Ruffs, as I do, and I love most obscure crags. Woodpeckers at'ruffs...what are those... air rifle shots into the trees?. The crag is shite rock, it holds damp (making it even more friable) and vegetation, is sandbag graded,  above domestic detritus and coffin soil that alows you to sink enough to get tetanus from glass and metal shards. Its got over a hundred named routes in the current definitive.. hardly exuding its own crapness along with tempting quotes like : "Esoterica with knobs on... ...wonderful" . Top points for the defence though ... how many murderers have you got off

I dislike anywhere that has a pH which makes my hands feel like I just covered them in fairy liquid.

And as for Stanage. I like the place for the occasional visit on quite Sunday mornings or midweek. Other than that it's now largely moorland grit for me. I clearly don't value the skin on my hands.

I like to think I've got quite a high tolerance for esoterica and it's varying charms, but for me  Charnwood Quarry wasn't a fun place to climb. The lines look ok (as these things go) but the rock is loose little flakes held on with... something and the gear is completely non existent. It felt like there was a ~5% chance of kicking the bucket on any given route, and given there are 50 or so routes there the odds are not looking good.

Hate is a strong word... if you hate Stanage the most, that implies if you were to choose one crag to quarry into pebbles, it would be Stanage. I find that hard to believe (I mean... at least choose a quarry!!!), so you must just being contentious for the sake of it (or being dramatic like a teenager). 

And yes, I have had many better experiences since doing 3 pebble slab a few years ago. 'Favourite experience' is rather more subjective than 'most hated' though. If the thread was entitled 'which crag would you be least likely to get out of bed for' I wouldn't have replied

Public expression of extremely polarising opinion is something one should be very careful with. In my opinion.

Actually I recind my vote for Cleeve Hill, and raise you High Rocks. The only crag you have to pay to go to, get moved on for wedding photos to be taken, and aren't allowed to boulder on. Plus the rock is shite and requires 2 days to dry off, and you can only top rope.

Personally have enjoyed many enjoyable days at the Cuttings

A climber who hates the Ruffs actually hates themselves for going there, you are just projecting that onto the crag.  It is so awful it has no business being climbed upon and if you choose to indulge your sordid little fantasies that it might... possibly.. be just about ok then it is you that is worthy of self loathing not the crag. The Ruffs have no aspiration or pretension to, or delusion of,  being a crag. One projects crag status upon it by virtue of mere verticality. They promise nothing edifying of any kind and they do not disappoint. Unlike the Cuttings, there is no deception, no temptation or the Siren song of beginners bolted routes. To hate the Ruffs because you went climbing there and it was shit, is pure narcissism.

PS am available at reduced rates for Monkey trials, Mockingbird re-enactments and victims of the Witchsmeller pursuivant.

;0)

A lot of people say that but I say go on a hot dry day. No mud, the trees shelter you from the sun and there are some great routes there.

Bosigran always seemed shite and overrated

chair ladder is good though

I moved a little out of Sheffield and now Froggatt is my local crag. I virtually never go there though, but do trespass on your area at Curbar quite a lot

It’s really difficult to be objective about Peak crags, especially Stanage. After nearly 40 years, I’m heartily sick of Stanage but I wouldn’t say I hate it. We regularly drive to the Lakes and Eden Valley now to climb and will in all likelihood move in the not too distant future. 

I see your Ruffs, and raise you  Jumbles. What an absolute hole (literally!). 

I spent a day there once when newer to climbing and far more foolish. 1.5hrs on the train for that! 

Thank you all, especially for the amusing Stanage debate. 

One thing I will say in favour of The Cuttings, after going to Swanage yesterday and now being covered in caterpillar rash, is that at least it doesn’t have bastard caterpillars. 

Also I forgot how much I hate Southern Sandstone. Though I generally don’t even regard that as rock climbing, more some sort of pervert’s diversion. 

Wharncliffe is a traditional Marmite crag  with its savage landings and especially since the pylons made the air crackle. 

You're right Jon, it's saved by the slate.

Curbar is ace, and miles better than Froggatt!

Clearly none of you have been to Balmashanner. Or Balmashitter as we christened it. 

As a guidebook worker of couse I open myself and my work to public flagellation. However my masochism isn't the issue here nor are my comments linked to any of my flights of fancy  (my visit was more a painful responsibility)   I don't blame inamimate objects (although the rock there feels alive and much of the strange covering matter is and I could imagine 'swamp thing'  creatures there, emerged from toxic waste) and your eloquent deflections do not disguise that important climbers have recommended it: yet these first ascentionists instead of burning their notes, remembering they had been forced there by foot and mouth (at the risk of other disease), gave it Definitive space and emphasis

In reply to Mischa

Go to the Ruffs and tell me then. I've been to numerous overgrown, damp, friable, shit venues.. the Ruffs is special.

You won't regret it. 

Eston Nab has often been called the worst crag in the country, mainly because of its location overlooking Teesside and its industry. Yet back in the 80s I went there quite a lot and enjoyed it for what it was, basically a small North York Moors sandstone crag - I particularly loved soloing a nice little VS called Peleton. Takes all sorts...

More dislikes than likes for that, mate! Granted some venues are rubbish but I've spent many an enjoyable time at Anglezarke and Wilton.

I think to be the nation's worst, a crag would need have both poor environs and poor climbing. Despite being a dirty wet hole in the ground waiting to give you leptospirosis at the earliest opportunity, the climbing at Balmashanner is actually quite good (and crafted to be so!). 

Finedon Slabs. I've been there more than once, but in my defence I was living in Wellingborough and a skint, non-driving student.

Your main problem with The Cuttings seems to be the easy routes are harder for their grade than climbing indoors!

The very easy routes have been sacrificed to the outdoor industry. Many of the 7s have interesting technical climbing: Hall of Mirrors and Want Out are better than anything in any quarry in the Peak. The outlook over Weymouth Bay towards Lulworth and the Jurassic coast is lovely and it is climbable every month of the year. It's not Malham but you can do a lot worse.

I don't hate anywhere I've climbed outdoors, its all better than plastic. I wont be returning to Masson Lees or any of those holes where the bolters moved in when the smell of dynamite was still lingering.

I guess Baslow is just as local and more suited to my bumblings, but I've got ticks there twice which makes me dislike it!

I don't do crag hating as a rule* but I think having done one ill advised solo I am unlikely to ever climb on Mam Tor again.

"Being pissed off" is not a sufficiently good reason to go soloing on Mam Tor.

*although I do think many are overrated.

I've not had the pleasure of climbing in Cornwall, to be honest, but it does look cracking. If it wasn't so far away from the North West, it'd definitely be high on my list. The only problem with Cornwall, I would imagine, is its proximity to London... One of the great advantages of the Lakes is, excepting sunny bank holiday weekends, you can frequently have a top-quality crag entirely to yourself.

The problem with cornwall is that even with recent road upgrades it doesn't really have much in the way of proximity to anywhere.  Getting there is a bit of a pain in the arse even from somewhere like Bristol.

Londoners seem more likely to go to the Peak, Wye valley and Pembrokeshire because that's where the decent transport links are.

Ramshaw.

I'm sure it was installed upside down by mistake.

I don't hate any crags (never been to the Cuttings though!). The one which has frustrated me most has been Chatsworth; the routes I'd loved to have done were all a bit too hard, while those which I should have been able to do back in the day were always green and slippery when I was there. I still like the crag though, in a masochistic kind of way.

After a recent trip to Snowdonia, following the polished holds and gear placements up classic climbs, I think I currently favour the Lakes. It's definitely an exciting place to be, and there are excellent sea cliffs, slate, sports climbing, and top notch boulder close by, but I've such a deep fondness for the particularities of the Lakes... and the relative absence of other climbers there!

Just got back from a trip to the highlands that took in Torridon, Applecross and Arrochar and was blown away - especially by Torridon and Applecross. But, tales of The Midge make me reluctant to go back again in the summer! Also, public transport links are a little lacking... Though public transport to the Lakes is also a bloody nightmare...

Anyway... I don't quite understand how people can live in England, unless it's close to the Lakes. If I had to live in the midlands I'd lose my mind...

Wash your mouth out, you dirty strumpet!

Its a 5 to 6 hour drive from London to Lands End area. I suspect you could do London to Lakes quicker.....?

Have you looked at a map lately?

From Google:

London - Kendal 274 miles, 4h50m

London - Land's End 294 miles, 5h:38

As a Londoner I can assure you that Cornwall, even North Cornwall is a pain in the arse to get to. It's much easier to drive to Snowdonia, the peaks, or south Wales. 

I've looked at plenty of maps, but not for that far south! But, now I know - ta! I did think Cornwall had it's only distinct flavour the only time I've been there, rather than being flattened into the general consumerist dreariness of what passes for 'culture' in the metropole. 

In theory it's quicker to get to Cornwall for me (from Yorkshire) than it is to get to Scotland.  But once you factor in the traffic...

I hate to challenge Google but those distances cannot be right.

Cornwall seems like it should be nearer as it's 'down south'. Your comparison is a little unfair though, Kendal isn't the Lake District is it?

London - Zennor and London - Langdale are virtually equidistant. Borrowdale is further.

Google earth:

Hammersmith to Kendal = 269 miles/4hr 28min (M40 and M6)

Hammersmith to  Sennen = 289 miles/5hr 8min (A303 and A30)

I quite often drive Plymouth to Dover for work purposes and its about 5.5hr drive on average. The bottom of the UK is really wide!

To be fair it takes 3.5-4 hours from Bath to Cornwall and about the same to snowdonia, and slightly longer to the lakes. Takes 4 hours to the peak for me aswell... and it’s definitely quicker for me to fly to the Dolomites than go to Scotland. Infact door to door it’s the same as going to Glasgow for me...

Yeah, the Cuttings.  Total sandbagged polish fest, a horrible and demoralising day's climb.

Having said that, there's some really nice routes on The Bower, but don't go posting on some big climbing forum that that's where the good stuff as they'll get polished too...

Oh hang on... 

I actually thought Bamashanner was ok except for the fact that I couldn't get up anything. Of course you do need to go on a warm Summer evening to avoid risking hypothermia.

I was thinking that up until now the discussion had really been centred on shitholes South of Leeds which makes sense. High numbers of climbers and low volumes of rock is going to mean that people will try and climb every piece of crap going and generally over rate their experience to friends and acquaintances in order to avoid looking foolish for driving 2h to stand amongst derelict domestic appliances, discarded needles and used prophylactics surrounded by walls of crumbling dank quarried rock.

While it is just and fitting to point the spotlight at the Southern half of Britain I think central Scotland should have some representation in this hall of fame. The quadrocks must get a mention for being utterly forgettable and Neilston quarry doesn't exactly set the pulse racing but I'd nominate two venues where we didn't even get the gear out, The Whangie which is so polished that in certain orbit configurations and Sun positions its reflection is visible from the international space station. My other nomination is a lot more obscure and esoteric which is as it should be, North Third or Turd as I would refer to it. A collection of disappointing lines up greasy suspect and poorly protected rock just outside Stirling. We spent an hour wandering between the lumps of petrified but perspiring mud before leaving the crag to slugs that seemed to inhabit every rounded blind crack.

Bloody hell, then it's no wonder that, for a long time, I spent so much time at High Rocks.

Everyone just go to Chudleigh to finish this debate! Polished like a drill sergeants boot. The cuttings will seem like vertical tarmac compared to it.

Well not really, but I quite like the cuttings, as long as you stay away from those first 'orrible lines that beginners flock to with their dusty shoes. I'm sure they were bolted and graded just to keep the punters away from the main crag. Further down there are some lovely 6bs. 

Uhhhh, nope! just overcrowded on weekends.

Having lived in Sheffield for nearly three years (far too long ago) and now with parents living approx 10 mins from Windmore End I wholeheartedly agree, and I think you can apply that to many of the Eastern Edges. It's just such a different experience  to anywhere else I've lived with a climbing scene (North Yorkshire, Kendal and now Glasgow). Nothing like jumping on a bus on Eccy road and find yourself at Burbage or whatever in no time at all for an evening. The only similar 'Vibe' I've found at a Crag is probably Dumby, beating your head off the place until you work the subtleties it has to offer.

I see Stannington Ruffs has been mooted. I should mention it as it recently became my local 'crag' but I haven't climbed there yet. It's not because I don't want to, I just haven't had the time or the company of a like-minded person. On a walk the other day I managed to find 'the spout' such as it is and was contemplating the climbs, noting the general looseness, the hanging gardens, the horror show top outs, but I would try anything once.

It's cousin just across the valley to the South probably qualifies as the crag I hate the most - Bell Hagg. There just isn't much to do there really, and it's often dirty, wet or both.

Midges are rarely a major issue with a bit of planning and plenty of repellant. And people seem to forget that they are often just as bad in The Lakes and Snowdonia. Still, I'm all for them keeping the crowds away.

Yes, if you had to live south of the border it would make sense to be only just south of it.

Meanwhile if you live in Clifton, Bristol, you can WALK to the Avon Gorge in a few minutes, and it's a nice walk too

Bell Hagg has some very good bouldering that is always clean and some of it stays dry in light rain. As a route venue its disappointing but way better than the Ruffs.

No we've discounted that as it's polished and apparently shite and nobody in their right mind would climb there. Oh and there's rubbish gear and the rock falls off. And Cheddar is rubbish. And the Wye Valley. And the mendips. Just like Cornwall is covered in sea pubes and has no climbing. There's a theme building up here...

I lived in Stratford upon Avon for 2 years and Cleeve was always worth the drive on a pleasant Summer's evening. 

I was brought up in Teeside and grew up climbing on NYM sandstone, but only visited Eston Nab once and vowed never to return. We didn’t feel comfortable leaving our rucksacks or stuff unattended and then having bottles thrown at us when climbing was the final straw.

That's not what I remember reading, mostly, about Avon on UKC at all

I wonder if some readers should avoid this thread - it was bound to be negative with the thread title "Which UK crag do you hate the most?" - a couple of people have said upthread that they don't like the thread and I understand that. Maybe it could have been titled better, more balanced, e.g. 'Favourite/ Least Favourite

Nah it's just the usual peak devotee's claiming anything on grit is great... don't get me wrong, I enjoy climbing on grit, I just don't like the way it's so over hyped. Yes it's close to Sheffield, and it's got lots of routes, but those things of themselves are not enough to claim it's amazing. Personally I get a far greater buzz out of topping out on a 120m limestone route in Cheddar, fighting for every inch of it and being in a really vertical environment than climbing 15-30m on hard sandstone surrounded by people. I mean I can assure readers that if you get away from the "polished classics lined up one after the other" that there is just as much quality as many other places. I just find it odd that as British climbers we have such an overly exaggerated love for these short crowded climbs...

Thanks for your reply, Mike, and I fully agree with you about "15-30m" climbs "surrounded by people" - not my favourite kind of place either, I love big lonely cliffs, e.g. the least popular parts of Gogarth midweek in February with the wind howling and sea pounding and no-one there.....

Avon's often quiet these few years, and I've always loved Avon - again, best for me when it's very quiet

Thing is, even long routes in the UK are piddling compared to elsewhere in Europe and the world, whereas the short/scary gritty stuff is just as short and scary and gritty as anywhere. I wouldn't recommend coming to the UK for "mountain routes" full stop, the lakes is... fine... if you don't have a handy real mountain range.

Dow is in Lancashire as far as I’m concerned!

I’m not sure I agree with your last statement, whilst I’ve climbed happily in the Highlands and Islands without bother from midges, when it’s bad, it is much, much worse than anything experienced in the Lakes or Snowdonia, or indeed damp Lancashire quarries.

Well James I went to St Loy the other week and thought it was mostly crap in capital letters. Wet streaks, very furry, and the harder routes quite bold. And fighting through the gorse & brambles was scant reward except for the view.

Yep, it's an urban crag and within reach of the scallies, much like many crags on Merseyside which is where I am now. I did once get a bottle thrown at me while climbing on Eston Nab. I ran round to apprehend the culprit and it was a girl of about 11. Moved to Scugdale it would be fine.

Gelli in the valleys is absolutely awful: Gelli

I can understand certain 'frustrations' with The Cuttings. The only time I've been I got spat off a very hard 6a and got a shock when going for a 'warm-down' 5c at the end of the day called 'The Sod', which was desperate, polished and reachy throughout. 

I certainly wouldn't agree with that statement. Yes there are mountain routes all over the place of across Europe, mostly bolted, at high altitude, often with poor quality rock due to freeze thaw. There is a general lack of interest in anything close to the road, trad and smaller - it's all about the big routes. What there is not is mountain routes or multipitch routes to summits which are totally trad, with an easy approach, no acclimatisation, and which you can really learn your craft on.

I think we are spoiled in this country for climbs on high quality igneous mountain and other types of rocks - sure they aren't at 4000m but that's not the point. If you want to go somewhere that you can just get stuck in on a weeks holiday, can you name me a better place to do so? I can see you've climbed all over the place, so you should be in a good position to comment. My self I've climbed in the States, Jordan and across europe - I own a place in the Dolomites so I'm fairly well versed with what there is in Italy - of course there's always more to look at!

I suppose what I'm getting at is that you just don't find 100-200m mountain trad that's easy access in Europe. Fine if you want to climb 300m plus but not everybody does! I'd say it's a fairly unique offering we have in the UK - I suppose the closest I can think of is Tuolumne meadows off the top of my head. By contrast I've spoken to many nationalities about the "crazy" trad climbs in the Peak and I always wonder how they cannot be disappointed when they arrive and almost drive past the crag because it's so damned small. I mean bouldering, I get. They are small anywhere, but roped trad?

That’s true Sean. We had a similar but I imagine worse experience at Porthguarnan a couple of weeks ago. With a bit of work, it could be a really excellent little crag though with a few little gems. Not too many local climbers and perhaps too much effort to persuade visitors to clean something before it is climbable. Will head back with bramble chopping gear, gloves and a brush through the summertime. 

James

All of the crags mentioned thus far are veritable Shangri-las compared to some venues. How do I know? Because you've been to them, and if somebody has been to a crag and actually completed a route there it can't be that bad because otherwise they would have just walked away on arrival.

However, Mixenden Quarry trumps that, with no UKC ticks in the past 10 years, despite being situated minutes away from thousands of potential suitors.

There is only one greater indicator of direness than a sustained lack of attention and that is an enthusiastic solo new routing spree by John Hunt, which is a sure sign that a venue must be beyond all measure of awfulness. See Harecroft, the worst crag in West Yorkshire, if not the world. I called in to check it out and felt compelled to climb something new in my work brogues just so I could call it "Don't Come Here" in the hope of warning other unfortunate would-be-visitors. Picture the scene. 8 metres of loosely and haphazardly piled blocks above a landing that consists of a drugs bivi, a mouldering leather recliner, and a mountain of beer cans so large that it has attracted a trig point.

Sorry to hear you had such a bad time climbing at The Cuttings. I agree that some of the ‘easy’ low grade routes can be polished and under graded. However:

As you admitted, drinking and smoking drugs the night before probably didn’t help.

(Sarcasm mode enabled) My apologies for taking the time to ‘shove in’ a new route for all to climb and (hopefully) enjoy, not realising it would upset you by not being the route you thought it was. I’ll contact you directly next time I think i’m going to inconvenience you (sarcasm mode disabled).

Looking at your logbook entries it seems you didn’t get on too well at Swanage either. 

I grew up in Kilmarnock so only see those venues through rose-tinted specs. However at a large scout camp somewhere near Barcraigs reservoir we were asked to organise abseiling. We found a very overgrown quarry (not listed on UKC or any guidebook) and spent half a day uncovering something solid. A nice afternoon of descending took place before one of the younger ones challenged the lead. The resulting route, unnamed, unrecorded and unrepeated, went at E1 4c. Crux was a loose move 15m up with the gear at c9m compromising of a loose hex (had to move the block to keep it in), a rock 4 pressed into mud and a tied off dandelion (quite a big dandelion though). Egos intact we retreated to a much needed slab of McEwan’s 70/- carefully stashed in a nearby river.

Better than Wilton though.

My thoughts exactly! There are many fantastic mountain routes in Glen Coe, Skye and the Cairngorms. I find an interesting comparison between three Scottish routes and three in Cham of approximately the same standard (if not exactly the same length). I climbed these 6 routes in the first few years as a climber, so memories are quite reliable for a comparison. The routes are all recommended to a greater or lesser extent for a first-time visitor of the requisite level of experience.

First - Agag's Groove (V. Diff.) compared to the Aiguille de'L Index (III+)

Second - Eagle Ridge (S) compared to the Chappelle de la Gliere (IV+)

Third - Satan't Slit (VS) compared to the NE Ridge of the Aiguille de'L M (V)

I found that the trio of Scottish routes p*ss all over their Chamonix counterparts. I'm not knocking Cham - I really enjoyed the Aiguille du Tour, Cosmiques and Mont Blanc, but we definitely have something truly special here, if one wants a full-on adventurous day out. Perhaps I would have a different opinion if comparing harder routes, but I would be intrigued to know of a Cham V+ rock route better than Centurion or a 6a better than the Needle or the Cioch Grooves/Arrow Route/Trophy Crack combo.

I almost forgot that I wanted to reply specifically to the OP!

Neilston Quarry and Rosyth Quarry (one crap venue for Glasgow and Edinburgh - based climbers!).

I don't think Auchinstarry is anything special either (Loudoun Hill, Dumby and Craigmore are far better IMHO). 

I like the Cuttings. Maybe get used to Portland and then give it another try

Wow, some people must have been really shut down by stanage. Poor things.

Haha - excellent retrotroll! 9/10

But you can walk around the side. If you ignore the approach then it is even easier than hay Tor.

southern crags really are soft though. You can park at the top of the Avon gorge (ice cream) and wintours leap so you don't even have to walk around the side. 

Sea cliffs are pretty much downhill all the way by definition. Already at the top. Don't need to climb it.

I'd give Rosyth two stars if I were in a generous mood. While I concede it doesn't have the visual appeal of Diabeg the rock is generally solid and protectable and the guidebook doesn't lie. It's the kind of place that is fine for a bit of training in a Summer evening if you live in Edinburgh. If on the other hand you drove all the way from Aberdeen to climb there on a Saturday then I can quite understand that you'd want your money back.

Auchenstarry is one of the few crags where you can belay while still sitting in the passenger seat of the car and as such must surely get a star for novelty. Death is the Hunter and the other E3s and 4s next to it are excellent test pieces. Admittedly once the aboriginals reach the bottom of their Buckfast bottles things can get a bit spicey but I've not heard of anyone being shot at or having a fridge dropped on them for several years.

Granted - I should have made clear I thought Neilston took the biscuit out of these 3. I did enjoy Heathy and The Waullie at Rosyth, but I found the place depressingly often ned-infested. I've had heard of the "car belay" at Auchinstarry, but it never appealed to me, neither aesthetically or from a safety point of view - belayer risks being rammed into the car roof in the event of a leader fall! I suppose a convertible would solve this!

Nah, just never got on with it

The problem there is that none of that is true. I went to the nw last September and the trip was a write-off due to midges (and rain). Trips late spring are generally marred only a bit. Granted they can be bad in the lakes and snowdonia, but nowhere near Scottish levels. Midge repellent is entirety useless when there are sufficient, i.e. normal, numbers. 

Your country is a hell-hole almost all of the time. 

Well yes but wearing a seat belt and/or a helmet can help here.

Berry Head - Rainbow Bridge Cliff

Awful rock, awful routes, rubbish name, water too deep, sun gets in your eyes, don't bother visiting.

Can’t tell how serious your reply is intended to be, but as my original post and silly log book entries were supposed to indicate, i am aware that my problem with The Cuttings on my most recent visit is as much about me as it is about The Cuttings. 

In any case I should say thanks to you for taking the time to bolt lines. As somebody who sport climbs but has never bolted anything, I rely on other people making the effort - the above post wasn’t intended to be entirely serious or to denigrate the route equippers. I generally love climbing on Portland, I just wanted to have a bit of a laugh about a crag that I just don’t seem to get along with.

And we got on fine at Swanage. Epics are part of every trad climber’s learning curve, right? 

I remember Filey Brigg taking a certain mind set. 

Fwiw I like the cuttings, mid 6s and above there are some good challenges. 

Nonsense. If you apply repellant properly (ie lots of it on all exposed skin) midges do not bite. It doesn't matter whether there a ten of them or a million - they do not bite.

Fine, don't come then. Stay in your own overcrowded hell hole on your grotty little crags  Suits me.

Dear Mr Rainbow

I completely concur your thoughts on The Rainbow Cliff and strongly suggest all climbers stay away from such an atrocious venue, not suited to any form of climbing what so ever, and as for the name.

yours sincerelyly

Chrisp

I'm guessing you are still quite young?

Absolutely. 52.

It takes all sorts: I'm sure I've heard people saying that Bamford was a bit of a dive or something along those lines with a bit more profanity.

You are all amateurs. For the definitive worst crag in the world I give you

Taffs Wells West

Beyond parody.

+1

I've only visited the Cuttings once and mainly because it was easy to get to with little children in tow - but I also enjoyed it. I do remember just sliding off the polish slabby footholds on The Sod (6a) and thinking it felt tough for 5c but then doing Chalkie and the Hex 5 (5c) and deciding it was the easiest 5c I've ever done - its about Derbyshire Vdiff/Severe but with friendly bolts!

Could you expand on that for those of us lucky enough not to be in the know?

If it's worse than stannington ruffs I might pay it a visit.

When is the last time you were there??? You haven't been able to Belay from cars (figuratively or otherwise?) in many years.

And I have never had any bother with locals, you hardly see anyone there these days

The car belay was waaaaaay years ago now, before the council built the dirt mounts to protect the cars of non climbers. You can't get a car into belay distance now.

Anyone feel like compiling a ticklist? Britain's Worst Climbs. One from each county.

D'oh! Just shows how little thought I gave to my reply and my lack of experience of this setup!

Maybe before my time - my first routes at Auchinstarry were in 1999.

The cuttings is great in the 6s in my opinion. If you are prepared to leave your ego at home!

Did a couple of days there over the winter and learnt loads Lots of cracks and corner which brushed up my skills up for trad. 

A bit of polish and some sandbags seems a bit harsh to write off a year round climbing venue. 

I can't help feeling the fault tends to be with the climber rather than the crag. Some crags are terrific at a certain grade and crap at another. The Cuttings is crap below grade 5 (polished sandbags) but very good at higher grades with a brilliant climate in winter. The Dewerstone is teriffic up to E1 but tends to be nasty and dirty on anything harder. Chudleigh is polished in the lower grades and punishes poor footwork but it is a brilliant locals crag which can provide decades of entertainment at higher grades. Cornish classics are undoubtedly fantastic but once you have worked through the selective guides you will find it has quite a lot of dodgy crumbly rock - not all granite is good. I find it hard to vote for a most hated crag as I can see it is important what I myself bring to the party. It is vital to make informed decisions based on your ability and the weather conditions etc. I have had amazing climbing experiences on some of the most hated crags - Avon main wall for example.

We used to discuss publishing "Rank Rock" years ago the final definitive book to complete the Wilson series.

Seem to remember The Eastern Fells guide having some strong contenders, one veteran Lakes climber friend reckons Colostomy on Nab Scar to be the worst route in the district. 

"Hating" a crag suggests a) that it's shite and b) somehow you have to keep going there. Generally if a crag is shite you just don't bother with it. I can think of many but one that nobody's mentioned is Castle Eden Dene, near Peterlee. A dank, loose, overgrown piece of Permian limestone that I've been to twice and climbed at once, out of sheer perversity. But I don't hate it.

Which also brings to mind the fact that, unless things have changed in recent years, County Durham is unique among the Northern English counties in having no climbing of any significance. I've not climbed there much and I hear that Goldsborough Carr can be entertaining but compared to the glories of Yorkshire, Cumbria and Northumberland it's pretty much a desert. Geology can be a cruel mistress. 

"Rank Rock" is a great idea! Perrin- and Robin Smith-style essays about quarries full of shit and old matresses, grainy b+w photos - go for it, I'll buy one!

Esoteric but each to his/her own, I guess. Personally I wouldn't pay 50p. for it but there you go

Best low crag in the Lake District!

Yeah - I walked all the way up and did Holocaust and Tumble one day years ago - what a wasted day that was....

No-ones mentioned Hapur Hill yet! Dismal place, dismal climbing. 

Slate. All of it. I mean, let's face it, it doesn't even really count as proper rock does it?

<old fart spoiler warning>

I suppose it's all a matter of taste, but I always found it extraordinary how some climbers never seemed bothered about a crag's setting. Harpur Hill is dismal, Avon Gorge (with that busy road etc) pretty bad, and Horseshoe Quarry particularly shocking when you walk around it and see just what a beautiful setting that ugly hole is in - none of it visible when you're in it. Also, perhaps I'm odd, but I've always found quarries quite sad/depressing places. Then there's all this business of climbing to lower-offs. I suppose it's all just about acceptable, until you compare these places with their diametric opposites, crags of superb natural rock in beautiful settings.

Nonsense! Sl8 is Gr8!

  And if I think back to any other trip to the Lake District I remember rain and twee-ness.  So my opinion is rather poor.

But I'm glad you enjoyed it

No wonder... just driving through Mixy is punishment enough. I must confess that despite it being my nearest crag (I think), I have never been (mind you I am only just starting climbing again). Yorkshire Gritstone says the climbing is "quite good". High praise indeed.

I mostly agree, and I have a lot of fun in the Avon gorge. Realistically people climb what they have time to get to. I am perfectly happy doing an evening in the gorge but would feel robbed if I had arranged a week away there.

Good climbing in amazing settings is something to treasure but for the likes of me it happens 2-3 weeks a year, max.

​​​​​​Best done pissed off and pissed. 

Don't you already have a Lancashire guide?