UKH

Ok - someone who knows:

Is the taz lov something that goes up a rope as easily as shunt (ie no messing around feeding the damn thing) and then transfers to the function of a grigri for going down or repositioning?

Is there any merit in getting a 2 or a 3 for does it simply not matter?

Is it safe (by shunt standards)?

I know what it is supposed to do but it's a pricey bit of gear to find out after your bought it that it's a bit rubbish!

I don't know, but this guy does ..

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nuQQmGXhV8Y&feature=share8

He also states in videos that the connector (krab, maillon, etc) needs to be the right match for the device you choose, so consider them as a pair not just the device

The Taz is great, I use mine all the time.

Its like a Soloist, but with a handle to go down.

It slides up the rope on its own, with minimally weighted rope, and locks reliably although you should always use a backup.

Its much better and safer than a shunt.

Taz 2 and 3 are essentially the same, but Taz 3 is easier to load the rope. Not sure you can even get Taz 2 anymore.

I mostly use mine for top rope, but it also works well for leading.

I have had to replace the handle spring in mine, but they were very helpful and sent me all the bits to do it.

I have a Taz Lov 3 and it works really well. if you don't weight the end of the rope at all then you may need to manually pull it up, but only the first few metres, then it slides up happily by itself.

I have a strong aversion to trusting this kind of kit, to the extent that I never did learn to trust a shunt, despite trying occasionally for twenty or so years, but I've found this to be far more reassuring and I use it frequently when I'm trying new sport route lines prior to bolting them.

I've not heard the krab matching requirement that CCT mentions above, and I've never seen any issues with whatever D-shaped screwgate I use with it, but it seems likely that the worst case scenario would be cross-loading. That sounds (and is!) scary, but in reality the forces you're able to generate in a self-belay top-rope fall are very much within the capability of any climbing screwgate to handle even when cross-loaded.

Yes.

Some small differences. Getting a bit out of "someone who knows" territory now. The 2 can be considered slightly safer in a couple of ways. The attachment method is like a grigri on the 2 rather than like a rig on the 3. There was at some point in the production of the 3 that there was a plausible failure method to do with the handle (snagging or something like that?), but I think (not sure) that it was fixed by Taz after it was reported. I bought a 3.

Yes.

Thanks everyone!

I got the 'new' version of the Lov 2 (the cyan one) released this year - was put off the Lov 3 because it seems to be possible to open the side plate while the device is on the rope.

Its really not an issue. There is no way it could accidentally open, I have tried.

I really like how easy it is to add/remove the rope with no risk of dropping it.

Agreed, I've absolutely no worries about the Lov3. There's just no way to accidentally detach it. The extra risk of having to mess with chest and sit harness attachments to attach and detach from the rope are greater imo.

Don't use a shunt for fall arrest unless you want to die.  

Don't be silly now!

There are known and probably yet undiscovered failure modes in all or most  fall arrest devices.

Using two or more independent different back ups or systems increases the odds in your favour significantly.

Read the HSE report on fall arrest equipment.  The shunt is not the tool for the job, nor is it designed for the job.  It might work sometimes, but there are far better options which are less likely to fail. 

The use of a shunt as the sole means of fall arrest nowadays would be ill-advised, given the demonstrated potential for failure, albeit extremely unlilkely.

However, the use of a shunt as a backup or in conjunction with another device working independently would seem like a perfectly reasonable choice.

Being generous, a statement such as "Don't use a shunt for fall arrest unless you want to die" is overly simplistic. Being less generous, it's stupid.

I'd suggest using a back up device which is also designed for fall arrest, to not do so would be somewhat "stupid". 

Time to draw a line under this thread:

Tav lov 2/3 seems to be what I'd like (mainly for the seamless transition between up and down).

We all know the shunt has limitations and that means you have to take care and apply measures to mitigate against the possibility of a failure (grab mode or hangup mode).  Every TR soloist I've ever met knows this. Loads of people over loads of years have successfully used shunts for TR solo without dying prematurely as a result. The shunt remains a respectable, if dated, TR solo device if used with care.

WS88 disagrees.

I’m a bit annoyed you started this thread…

It made me order a Taz 😂

Expensive thread!

Nice! you'll love it

Final feature that I rarely use is its ability to move up and down a taught rope.  Eg last week I wanted to work a very overhanging route, so I put in a bottom anchor and fixed the rope at the base (as well as the top).  I could work the moves without swinging away from the rock, and still move back down to re-try each move.  Once at the top I could also descend that same rope, which you can't do with anything else.

I use a Petzl Torse to hold the Taz "up" , but you can easily make a chest harness with a 120cm sling.

Dave Macleod does a very detailed explanation over why he favours Shunt over Taz Lov, good enough for me.... youtube.com/watch?v=q4N2WGcABLo&