UKH

On the gates leading to Scout Scar above Kendal there are any number of politely worded signs asking dog owners to keep their dogs on leads for the next 3 months to avoid disturbing ground nesting birds. That doesn't seem wholly unreasonable to me.

Was up there yesterday and I would say probably 50% of the dogs were off their leads. What on earth is that all about?

Inconsiderate dog owners?

I predict this will run to over 200 posts with almost instant polarisation, no agreement at the end and links to various websites which very few people will look at.

 

If it's the Scout Scar west of Kendal then they are politely asking to do what the law says they should on Access Land at this time of year........

It's another example of the exceptionalism we see in other parts of society.

I'm a dog owner.

Steve

Any answers or comments? Are the signs OTT, and I'm just an old fuddy duddy who missed the memo?

You know what that's all about, I'm sure. It 's the notion that rules and requests are not actually referring to me, it's everyone else.

I'd hazard a guess, and that's all it is, that your 50% estimate could apply to other activites such as driving and cycling.

A significant proportion of dog owners are selfish and inconsiderate. Much like non dog owners.

At the roaches the other day a woman was walking what looked like a husky alastian cross off its lead. Another dog came near and she ran and grabbed hers. Shouting to the owner to get his back as hers doesn't like other dogs. The other dog wasn't over fussed by it. She was making a right scene. When the guy and dog had gone she was throwing a ball for it again. Now if that dog was nasty it should be on a lead and have a muzzle. Yet another shit dog owner. 

I hate to see my dogs on a lead but if there are signs up or common sense like a field of sheep then on the lead they go.

If I was aware of restrictions I wouldn't go there in the first place. 

Not that long ago I was walking a forest track with the puppy and saw a horse rider coming towards me. When we got close I popped her on the lead and stood a couple of meters to the side of the track, as it was her first horse encounter. As the rider got about 20m away he shouted 'get further back, you are scaring my horse!' - no hello, excuse me or do you mind, just a direct order. So I walked back into the track and asked him to move his horse as it was scaring my dog....LOL 

After some words, I just walked past him - puppy and horse ignored each other....

Horse owners often make dog owners seem sane 

I don't know Scout Scar, and I'm not a dog owner, but I imagine that if this is a very popular area close to Kendal, then some dog owners may feel their amenity, and their dogs, outweighs those of the nesting birds on this bit of land, especially during lockdown.   

But it's not my dog that is the problem, it's those dogs. My dog is perfect. I know he ran after all those sheep but he was only playing.

Anyway, those people should not even be here at the moment as we're in lock down. I had to come for my mental wellbeing and my dog also needs to see down into the Lyth valley otherwise he gets more anxious when inconsiderate people let off fireworks in November.

A frightened horse could seriously injure the rider or even itself so if the request was politely made I would have complied. After all the worst that could happen to you is that your ego gets a bit bruised.

Many dog owners think they have trained their dog to perfection, which many have, so this gives some of them the right to ignore any rules coz they would argue “but I am in control”, which they may well be but that’s not the point.

its all arable fields near me, but dog walking has increased 3 fold in the last 12 months. One of the regulars has a phrase:  “New Age Dog Walker” which makes me laugh. But I have noticed a massive increase in dog owners being OK wither their dog sneaking under the fence and running wild in fields of wheat seedlings. No wonder farmers go mad. 

I was on a nature reserve this morning. Passed 3 ladies with their loose spaniel tooling around in the undergrowth having a conversation about how nice it was to be here as it wasn't full of inconsiderate cyclists and runners. 

I think we need to stop othering and start promoting considered and considerate behaviour in all parts of society.

And no, I didn't stop and talk to them. I know a lost battle when I see one

I don't understand why so many people walking dogs are so ignorant of the country code. There was a time when you'd see adverts on telly and posters in towns and schools reminding people to put their rubbish in a bin and to close gates behind them but it seems to be unheard of by many nowadays.

I've found bagged dog shit in rabbit holes on some of my local walks. The perpetrators would be better off just not picking it up if they think it's ok to do that. 

Maybe a few tv adverts or news items warning people of unleashed dogs getting stolen might reduce the problem.

Most things can be resolved with a bit of politeness, however I would also very much take into consideration the age of the rider.

If a thirteen year old kid who looked scared shouted at me to get out of the way I would.

If an adult made a polite request I would comply assuming it didn't involve a great hardship. If they wanted me to start wading into brambles with a dog and a child in tow I might suggest they could dismount.

If an adult ordered me to get out of the way, I'd probably suggest in no uncertain terms that if they can't control their horse from where they're sitting around people, they should dismount and hold the reins until we've passed.

On a slightly different tack I have recently been running on a public footpath which goes right through a farm yard. A loose farm dog  lies in wait every time. It runs after me snarling and growling with bared teeth. It has never bitten me but I always feel like it is about to. This can't be ok. I suppose I need to talk to the farmer. I wonder what his response will be?

We have these signs in the Peak so pretty familiar with them however I was under the impression that the law was "dogs must be on a lead or under close control" which opens up another one of those helpful grey areas that we've all come to know and love in the last year...! My interpretation has always been that our pup can be off the lead but keep her close by and at the first sign of any wildlife or if she goes into the heather and is getting too excited then she goes straight on the lead but I would be interested to know if other people have different opinions/information. 

Hi,

regarding “and at the first sign of any wildlife” I’d say you’d be hard pressed to see most ground nesting birds so I’d be happier if the Dog was on the lead.

We have Skylarks singing and nesting near us and despite signs and cordoning off of corners of fields the Dogs are mostly off lead here.

Exactly, if ground nesting birds were easily seen they wouldn't survive.

Mountain biking after work yesterday in the sun, listening to calls of the curlew and lapwing, both in sharp decline I think, glorious to hear these birds on the moors.

cheers

mark 

I’d make a quite evidence-free guess that many of the same people who leave the bags of dogsh*te hanging off the trees there are involved. 

Dog owners do seem to not give a damn most of the time. I mean just look at that Fenton video. The man calling as if it was the dogs fault.

I was with a friend walking her very shy dog. When another dog owner came walking over with her Malamute on an incredibly long lead. Her dog then went for my friends dog which was already trying to avoid her. Why have a lead if you can't control your dog with it.

Another time I've been cycling along on a local hill when 2 dogs completely out of control run in front of me and I end up crashing into one. Now you could say I should be aware of the hazards but these dogs came out the bushes at full sprint across my path.

Horse riders also if there horse can't handle other people and things on bridleways then it shouldn't be there. Walkers have the right of way on bridleways not horses.

Also see a lot of dog owners letting their delightful animals chase sheep around. Seen it on my local hill and numerous other places.

If the Gamekeeper goes around with a loaded shotgun (and a lot of extra cartridges !) and ends up shooting said 50% of the dogs, then the dog owners will have no-one to blame but themselves.

It's a pity the innocent dogs are the ones that can be legally shot, when it's the owners who are to blame.

It appears some dog owners think their dog is under control if it comes back to them eventually, irrespective of what it might have done in the meantime.

As an owner of a dog,

who does not like other dogs,

has a very strong prey drive,

will run if startled by a sudden loud sounds and,

is therefore always on an extended lead

I wish owners who let their dogs run free(and there is nothing wrong with that intrinsically)  would, when they see another dog on a lead, either put their dog on a lead or keep it under close control.

Even the most confident and best socialised dog is likely to feel at least a bit threatened if approached by a free dog when it is on a lead.

Dave

Hmm yeah that's a really fair point that you and Eric have made. Plus it's not that hard to just go somewhere the signs are not applicable and it's more appropriate for dogs to run free. After all it's only 3 months of the year so not exactly a big hardship! 

Whether you are trying to protect ground nesting birds, other wildlife or grazing livestock the reuirement is for dogs to be kept under close control. A lead is one way of achieving this nbut a good owner with a well trained dog will manage without.

Were the dogs under control or roaming freely away from their owners?

I've had the same thing happen a couple of times on a farm I sometimes go through - I try to look like I'm minding my own business and just lumbering past, but once it got close enough to claw me (I assume - actual biting seems less likely. I didn't stop to see what caused the pain, but there was blood streaming when I got home). 
I wondered about mentioning it to the farmer, but chickened out imagining a fairly hostile response; 'well, what did you expect running past a dog bred to chase' etc. Also on at least one of the occasions I was topless so probably seemed quite alien to the dog, all pink and huffing

That dog could have just had her cough COVID all over it for all you know - with other people around, during a pandemic people should keep their dogs out of other household people's personal space.

I came out of a local wood a week or two ago on to a road with a large rucsac with  five foot of telescoped fibreglass mast strapped to it.  Cue meet 2 ladies on horses on the road and one horse starts getting a bit nervous.  "Behave yourself, he's not going to shoot you..." she yelled at the fidgety animal.

I called "I hope I'm not that frightening" to them and she called back "It's not you - He's a bit scared of guns(!!!)."

Not wanting to be mistaken for a gunman in future I explained I didn't have one.  Strange.

So long as a dog is 'under control', and the own is actually being in control, the lead is academic, IMHO.

(None dog owner.)

A dog on a lead might be troubled too, might have been abused and liable to bite if feeling threatened, which could cause problems for both dogs. A friend's sister has a dog like that, her ex partner abused it because he wanted a fierce and frightening dog, and now she has it, and it's happy, other than when random dogs run up to it. 

As someone who has quite a bit of experience with lively dogs and lively horses, often in combination, I can confirm that even when they meet it's usually the neurotic owners who are the problem.

At worse:- "its a bloody guard dog!!  What do you expect?"

Sure, usually.

I was rather hoping that the nervous exhaustion that dog owners round here are getting into on social media over dog theft might mean all the little blighters are kept home and safe or on leads all the time. 

It seems to be partially working. Even though there isn't a single reported theft in the area according to the police who had to calm the hysterics down

I experienced similar. I was shouted at by a horse rider for not talking to her horse as I, very slowly, rode past on top of a hill in the gower last year. There was about 15 ft between us and apparently I was supposed to engage the horse and rider she informed me..telling it I was passing.. We'd approached from opposite directions and I had slowed down well in advance so why the need I don't know ... Sheez.

She had an audience at the time.... 

The "nesting birds" request could be two things; nesting wild birds or ground dwelling birds reared for sport (in the loosest possible term).

I do not know the land use around scout scar so cannot comment as to which.

Some dog walkers may be more sympathetic to one category over the other. 

Was she riding Mr Ed?

''I was going to talk, and then I thought 'neigh' at doing.''

There aren’t any signs leading from the car park onto the Scar (I assume you walked up from Kendal?).- this might be one explanation, or even the signs you saw were referring to a different area lower down?

Interesting point. I'll check it out. 

Who wrote the signs do you know? LDNP? RSPB? I couldn’t find any web info other than a passing mention of Curlews on nearby Cunswick Scar.

Blowed if I know - we'll nip up the next day or two and post a pic.