UKH

The previous thread got too big so it auto-closed https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/off_belay/real_world_brexit-730095

I think it still had some way to run since there were stories coming in. So here is a new version.

Rules the same - list real-world Brexit experiences since 1 Jan, good or bad.

Alan

I'll start the ball rolling with this one.

It seems that even big companies are struggling with the rules...

It’s clearly a mess both ways if you are selling direct to a consumer.Any company in that market must be struggling both in U.K. and in Europe as well.

I am not sure what the solution is on VAT.It always annoyed me that European companies could undercut U.K. traders by not charging VAT(and of course this worked just as well in the opposite direction).Maybe this is a time of realignment to get rid of that unequitable practise and people just have to bite that price hit.

Personally I have yet to find any tangible advantage from leaving the EU, but a banker friend told me that as the UK can now set its own interest rates, it could attract much investment in the future.

I don't understand that comment: we were - and are - able to set our own interest rates in any event. Countries which use the Euro obviously cannot.

We're not in the Euro so GBP-Eu is just another exchange rate like GBP-USD or GBP-Yen. How does Brexit change freedom to set interest rates?

Sorry, must admit I don`t really understand what he was getting. Must ask the question when I contact him next.

OK then ,I will ask again, anything positive (tangible) coming from Brexit?

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/1388724/brexit-news-latest-mastercar...

Specifically chose the Express link... 

Even if there were anything positive (tangible) coming from Brexit (and we're still waiting to hear what it is!) the deficit is so huge that in graphical terms it would be a bit like putting a dog kennel alongside the Shard.

I won't be using my Mastercard for online purchases from the EU from today. It's a UK card linked to my UK business account and the interest on individual purchases has been increased today from 0.3% to 1.5%.

E

I can't be ABSOLUTELY sure that this is Brexit and not just FedEx, but I am still waiting for a package from Spain (I mentioned it in the other thread and got some helpful advice re: EORI numbers). This is something for work. It is not a purchase, my company owns it, it was sent to Spain to a calibration laboratory and has been sent back. It has been with FedEx in the UK since last Tuesday. I entered the EORI number online on Wednesday afternoon. 
 

No change in tracking status by Thursday lunch - still showing "information required from receiver". Rung them up, said I'd emailed it through but maybe the system was just slow on updating, so here's the info verbally. All sounded good, chap said it won't get dispatched today but Friday, and will be delivered Friday.

I didn't make a special journey into the office on Friday to intercept it, because I am far too cynical for that. And lo and behold, no delivery attempt was made. Checked last night. Delivery due Mon 25 Jan before 12 noon.

Tracking status changes at 11:45am to the contradictory or at least confusing "Shipment exception: Held. Cleared regulatory agency(s) after aircraft/truck departed" What's that? Is it held, is it cleared, is it on a truck headed my way (it also says "In Transit" as well as "in Birmingham", and "Scheduled delivery:

Monday, 25 January 2021 by end of day.

So I ring them up. Apparently it only "cleared customs" at 11:53am and therefore won't be delivered today, but tomorrow. Bit inconvenient really as I wasn't planning to travel to my office tomorrow but hey ho. I thanked the operator and ended the call. 
Then I remembered that the automated instructions you get, before getting to speak to a human, had mentioned something about altering the delivery day. So I rang up again to try this but before I reached that option someone answered the phone. Gave him the tracking number and explained that his colleague just 5 minutes ago had said it was cleared and will be delivered tomorrow. He say "no, I don't know where she's got that from, MY system is showing that it is still being held" and blah blah, he says he'll check something and puts me on hold. 
Fully expecting to just wait 8 minutes and then have the phone line click off, I was surprised to hear a THIRD voice "Hi this is Ryan at FedEx, how can I help you today?". After a moment of fear that I'd been transferred as a new call, we deduced that he was part of the team on my call, and HE says the bloody thing WILL be delivered tomorrow and advised against trying to change the delivery date as it'll prolong things disproportionately. 

So basically I have to choose which of three FedEx phone support operators to believe. Of course I will drag myself out of bed and into the office early for the "between 8 and 12" delivery. 

I know couriers are overwhelmed and even at the best of times they totally cock things up but given that this one is all about customs, I think Brexit can be blamed! 

And how can anyone not be very angry about this type of thing? -

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1353723278268002304

... thought this was quite interesting and I love the fact the current government describe what's going on as "teething problems / troubles"...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/24/bill-for-boris-johnso...

FedEx had to contend with a strike at a major hub in Belgium last week. It screwed up a considerable amount of their European and U.K. shipments. 
 

I found this out after delays in shipments to Estonia and Poland .

Sounds like you were caught up in that. 

one of my European customers told me all about it. 
 

trivial compared with the coming break-up of the UK.

For that I would organise a firing squad for the Brexit pushers who started this off and executed it.

In fact I'd take part in the firing squad,  murder of democracy and the needless destruction of our nation state, all for a shitty party policy

Thanks. I am not in a massive rush for the thing and I have some sympathy for the courier companies, but then that's why I rang them up as I assume their staff have access to better data than I do via entering the tracking number into the website. It's the mixed (well, conflicting!) messages in the space of ten minutes and three operators, that aggrieved me. I'd rather they just said "there is a backlog but it will be delivered on Friday" but I assume that is just logistically impossible for them to know. I'm not blaming FedEx here. 
But you're saying it's not a Brexit thing but possibly a strike at a European hub. I am not so sure. The item reached the UK last Tuesday and every delay has related to "customs clearance" (a vague term but that's the vagueness that FedEx are giving me!). 
I will report tomorrow as to whether it is delivered  

Delivered to me at 9:27am!

re: Nikon

We are waiting for pretty essential microscope parts from them and have had a very apologetic message that there are further delays

Ouch! I saw a lot of posts about Nikon yesterday on other social media, for some reason. It's easy to forget that a lot of these brands do more than just "consumer/recreation(*)" products e.g. the amount of times I've had to correct people regarding Sigma "just being a low end knock-off third party cheap brand"  

* I do know that taking photographs with a camera goes beyond just recreation but all the online noise _I_ saw yesterday about Nikon was gently mocking hobbyists  

A small one, as a punter not someone actually trying to do business:

I ordered a new pair of running shoes from my excellent local independent shop recently.  (They're currently doing mail order and 'click & collect'.)  They didn't have my size in stock but have always been able to get them within a couple of days before - they're on the way from Amsterdam now, dispatched 12 days ago and counting..

Take it you didn’t  vote Conservative Or BREXIT.

that would be a reasonable inference

Sounds like your mate was being sarcastic. 

Phew, that is a relief.

I have been eaten up with anxiety since it "auto-closed" immediately after my last post. 

I honestly assumed I had broken some sort of rule.

Our latest one. Ordered a specialist little Air compressor from a German supplier. They have these built in the states and we had to pay 2% import duty for it to ship to germany( compressor is only about £350 so the duty was nothing). 

German supplier sent it to us and we have been sent a bill for just shy of £80 for UK import duty and handling fee etc 

Still, there is one good thing to come from it.

All those tax dodging corporations and millionaires are going to feel some pain.

Robert Palmer, the director of the Tax Justice UK campaign group, said: “Post-Brexit the UK tax havens have lost their protector within the corridors of Brussels. I’d expect to see the EU to ramp up pressure on places like Jersey to clean up their act. The UK itself has been warned that if the government tries a Singapore-on-Thames approach, with a bonfire of regulations and taxes, then the EU will act swiftly.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/22/meps-vote-to-add-channel-and-...

Until London declares 0% tax on foreign companies, that is...

They can only do that if they also tax UK companies 0%. This is exactly the situation that the Crown Dependencies found themselves in a few years ago. The OECD  had deemed different rates for local and non-local companies to be 'harmful' and said we'd be blacklisted unless we harmonised our rates. Instead of raising rates for non-local companies and eliminating the offshore finance industry the C.D.s dropped their local rates and the non-local companies remained yet the islands suffered a loss in corporation tax take. This was deemed the lesser of the two evils.  The whole situation was known as 'zero-ten'.  https://guernseymatters.gg/necessity-zero-10-born/

That article is so reminiscent of a series of video blogs a trade expert did about why the biggest costs of any hard brexit would be non tariff barriers and damage to services. It was linked somewhere but I can't remember where.

Sadly all negative here.

I work in parts distribution business that sells to more than 120 countries. 60% of our business in made in Europe.

We made the decision post referendum that we had no option but to manage our own destiny, rather than rely on our politicians, and move our hub warehouse from the UK to NE France.

The project is delayed by about 2.5 months but in March we will service all markets outside the UK from our new French warehouse and we will just keep a skeleton staff in the UK to manage the 20% of our business that is domestic.

The management functions will remain in the UK but all the manual work will move with the warehouse and will inevitably lead to UK redundancies.

Right now we are still trying to service our European customers from the UK and it is a horror show. Admin has gone through the roof. Goods are delayed in and out of the UK and into the EU. Customers are hit with increased shipping costs, duties and service charges from carriers. Our customers will leave us during this transition period.  

Investment in France exceeds $3m and we will employ 40 people there. Investment in UK $0 and job losses of 28. Export sales from the UK of $100m+ have been lost as result of Brexit.

I think you mean this one -  youtube.com/watch?v=EcIkIz98zXU&

So utterly prescient but then again, not exactly rocket science either!

Alan

Wow, wow, wow, wow. Such superb clarity. I think most Brexiters should be made to watch and absorb all that Posen says here, over and over again.

Thanks for sharing..

Indeed 'mugged by reality'....

JCB got fined £22m by the EU for fixing prices..no wonder they wanted out.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://am...

No its not that, excellent though it is. The one I was thinking of was much less about macroeconomics: it was a guy in an office talking through all the non tariff barriers that would be a real headache unless we stayed under the EU regulatory framework. He did this in a clear and  publicly understandable way. He spoke on thinks like cost of regulation changes, customs problems,  point of origin of parts for UK manufacturing,, VAT issues, etc. I thought Ru had linked it on the EU referendum thread (on the other channel) sometime in 2019 but couldn't find it.

Anybody involved with distributing a product will understand JCBs commercial dilemma. In the USA it is even more complicated. 

They are happy to take others to court as well...

First a disclaimer, I didn't vote in the ref and neither do I care much for flags and politics. As a bit of balance we've had some good news.

I buy windows for my business from a German company who threatened to add a 7% levy on the product if we voted out and after the vote suggested they would be ditching the UK market. A little time passed and they have bought a large, crap UK company out and have decided to use it to manufacture the product here instead to strengthen it's position in the UK market as shipping the product in is no longer viable. They are adding investment into the plant which means more product development and an extra 100 jobs. The good news for me is the product will not only remain in the UK at a price where I can compete with my competitors but is also made here now.

Did I read that leaving the union meant the UK could buy the vaccines much earlier? If so then that's great as my wife in the NHS is now safer due to that.

I'm aware that there is a lot of bad news around, I've no opinion on the Brexit issue but in the spirit of the thread I'm offering some good news based on Alan's opening question.

Why is shipping the product no longer viable?

Scarcely believable but German man moves to the UK, writes book called 111 Gründe, England zu lieben (“111 Reasons to Love England”) and can't get a new print run from his EU publisher because of Brexit:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/23/a-brexit-nightmare-the-bri...

Their market share wasn't huge and existing shipping costs meant that the product wasn't too competitive anyway. Shipping goods in now involves quite a bit of effort compared to before, shipping costs have increased so I'm guessing that they hit a crossroads, either go all in and have a committed crack at the UK market or get out. I think if things had remained the same we would still be getting the material shipped in.

I've been reading about many companies in the union now cutting the UK off their shipping lists, more retail than industrial but things are not as easy. I'd be interested to hear if any other European companies have decided to base some of their manufacturing here for the UK supply market as a result of the split. I doubt there will be much of that but I can only speak from my own experience.

Yes it is a brutally honest talk. Especially the bit where he talked about the problems with the EU and that all but one didn't apply to the UK due our half out status. We really had a very good deal in the EU. 

They must be world class grudge-holders; that was 20 years ago!

Ok so after highlighting $100m in lost export sales it's time to get serious.

My last 6 pairs of running shoes have come from Europe (Denmark, Spain and France). No longer viable with duties and service charges. UK suppliers must be laughing.

I'm not sure about buying (I would guess not since most of our purchases must have been arranged during transition? We can't have done much of our buying in January...).

I know there was some noise about Brexit allowing us to approve more quickly, but my understanding was that this is not true and that we approved under emergency EU powers available to any member state (I think Hungary has done the same with regards to the Russian one).

You mean there is a " level" playing field and that UK suppliers were not undercut by European or Chinese sellers not paying VAT?I cannot help feeling that this is wrong.

In turn UK suppliers undercut European local suppliers the same way. That is wrong.

How were European sellers not paying VAT?

A European business selling to a UK consumer paid VAT locally in their home market. A UK business selling to European consumer paid VAT in the UK. 

It depends on VAT rules for the local supplier.There has been alot of VAT issues going on across the piece. And it seems to be forgotten that I think it is in July the EU are clamping down on this to stop it between EU countries.Its just that the UK/EU deal has brought it forward a few months for the UK.

Its also why effectively in the UK Chinese companies were using Amazon and not paying VAT. That vanished overnight.

The postion is like in alot of these things a bit more complicated than is being made out.

The rules on recording and collecting VAT are essentially the same throughout the EU, it's an EU directive.

This months trade figures are going to be interesting, the European road haulage association are reporting 40% of their trucks are returning empty due to "difficulties" primarily by UK food suppliers. Freight price rises are inevitable.

I've been waiting for my giant bike to be delivered to my local supplier since the start of the year. It seems that the company has been holding off deliveries until things settle a bit. Hoping to ship in early February. Many other people over here are having lots of problems getting stuff either shipped or delivered. The general consensus over here is that many companies across the water have been hopelessly under prepared.  Many people are simply switching to Amazon Germany or France. We have been used to getting lots (many billions of Euro) of our stuff from the UK but that is going to change big time. It is not as if we haven't a choice. I feel that this is going to cost the UK many many millions and that number is only going to get bigger. Meanwhile, fingers crossed I get my bike in Feb. I assure you it will be the last thing I get from the UK if I can help it.

As I open a tin of baked beans "Taste of British Isles" made in Italy with non-EU beans and grab the HP sauce made in Holland.....

Wasn't it more to do with the EU buying as a block rather than indi states? I seem to remember that the UK could have still used that agreement but instead decided to go it alone to get the purchases moving. I seem to remember reading that last week on BBC news, not that it means it's a fact. Either way, I'm glad that the vaccination rates here are moving well.

Good point. We did opt out of the EU wide purchase scheme. Not sure if others had the same choice or whether we were the only ones who could through being on the way out.

Can you explain this one please?

Indeed - looks like it has worked out for vaccines - Koped a lot of flak for vents and PPE.

First the £15 (or whatever it is in your money) the VAT exemption has been removed. More importantly the VAT on imports is no longer levied at the time and  place of import but at the point of sale if it is performed using an e-commerce platform. That means that Amazon for example must add the VAT when you buy something through them and account for/pay this to the country of destination irrespective of whether they own the goods or only offer a market platform. That's the simple version, the guidance note for the EU is 99 pages long!

The hassle with Brexit is that the system was to come into operation on 1st July 2021 so a lot of companies weren't ready. Also for most traders only operating inside the EU the rules basically don't apply, they just pay the VAT domestically as before.

A number of people I know who buy electronic components in small quantities from sellers in the EU, myself included, have simply given up as a bad job.  Those who have had stuff delivered since Jan 1st seem to have had a lot of problems according the group mail reflectors I monitor

A number of people I know who buy electronic components from sellers in the EU, myself included, have simply given up as a bad job.  Those who have had stuff delivered since Jan 1st seem to have had a lot of problems according the group mail reflectors I monitor

why was this necessary, why is it beneficial.

Can we look forward to foreign made mountaineering boots being unaffordable?  As I don't think Hawkins make them any more I'll have to give up winter mountains when my stuff wears out.

Perhaps you Brexiteers could give us a sub out of the Brexit dividend for what you've done?

This happened to the Crown dependencies a few years ago to kill their fulfillment industry which was allegedly killing the high street, all that happened was the businesses doing it moved their operations to Switzerland. So that loophole is finally closed.  It was quite impressive, the HMV warehouse was adjacent to my office and we could see the volumes they were shipping - at xmas it was a package every 2 seconds 24/7.

Ah I see, thanks!

I think we should start a discussion on interesting similes. Advantages of Brexit are a bit like .....Mind you dog kennel/shard is tricky to beat.

The two Brexit Bonus analogies we had in an older thread were..

Your dog is dead but think of the saving in vet bills.

We had to amputate both legs but the guy in the next bed is interested in buying your shoes.

I’m not sure if this adds or detracts from the debate. But living in NE Scotland I might as well be live in an independent and isolated Scotland. Today, once again I was refused delivery by an English based company. Despite their website indicating that they do deliver UK wide.

That's completely unrelated to Brexit, isn't it?

How about:

You've just resigned from your Climbing Club then discovered you can't use their huts any more.

It is. But there is a parallel IMO.

What I hear are English consumers complaining of their difficulties in buying from the EU due to Brexit.

Ironic that some English suppliers place very similar barriers to consumers within the UK.

Not so; you unfortunately (or fortunately, its a beautiful part of the world up there....) suffer from a distance / cost related issue, which hasn't changed due to brexit. Those living in the rest of the UK moaning about non delivery from Europe have no such distance barriers, it is an imposition of customs checks / tariffs / vat issues etc etc that simply weren't there before. Or were there in many cases, but the border relating to those issues has been moved due to brexit.

How attractive the place where I live is irrelevant. 
As I said I don’t want to take the thread off on a  tangent, although most threads eventually do. And I accept this issue has existed long before Brexit. 
It’s just that I’m struggling to find sympathy with suppliers looking to import from the EU when they can’t be arsed supplying to the UK. 
As for distance, surely that’s a matter of cost? A flat refusal to deliver when your website states that you will is infuriating. 
And yes, I’m angry today. Another delivery letdown and Boris is here. 

Your complaint has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. But for completeness and information, what companies have you been dealing with who claim on their websites to deliver UK wide, and then refuse to deliver to you? And where exactly are you based? (I'm not asking for a postcode, just something more accurate than 'NE Scotland.')

Google “Scotland over charge for delivery” will get you started.

And, yes, as I’ve already said it’s not directly linked to the consequences of Brexit. But it does touch on the logistics of trade.

All I get for that is complaints about higher delivery charges to areas which are more remote, rather than a refusal to deliver to such areas.

I'm not particularly interested to spend my time looking further - I was just asking for more detail on your specific complaint.

But let's drop it - this has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

No problem. I’m not in the business of giving away more personal info than I need to.

You’re correct most of that search will show the high delivery charges. But there at least two (English based) companies I’ve dealt with who claim mainland UK delivery, only to refuse once they learn my address.

Probably couldn't get it across the Channel in the first place.......

Just wait until you are independent!

I’ve been told that even if we do purchase that our choice will be limited due to lack of deliveries crossing the channel.

Ach, we’ll be fine 🙏🏻

Latest news seems pretty universal and blunt...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jan/28/british-business-leaders-w...

Far quicker than I expected, my carte de séjour (residence  permit) arrived yesterday some 3 weeks after my visit to the préfecture. The guy I saw told me I'd have to wait 'one, maybe two, quite likely three months'.  Valid for ten years & cost nothing other than the time to fill in an on line form & the visit.

Never mind Uk ports. This is internal within the UK. So I am going to be shipping machinery to Northern Ireland in a few weeks time.

Get this. I have to apply to HMRC for  what is called an XI number. Takes 4 days.Its basically your GB VAT number with the GB replaced by XI.Without it you cannot ship to NI.

And near where I live there is now an Inland Border Site ( Warrington). 700 vehicle movements a day between the site and the Motorway. The site is on an industrial estate about 1/4 mile from the M6.Apparently its for traffic to Northern Ireland.

Only advantage is that it employs people.

Still cannot believe people are not kicking off about this sort of cr#p

According to the BBC military movements to and from NI are affected