UKH

I know a lot of people are fed up with Brexit discussions but hearing Rees-Mogg going on about happy fish while the real and tangible negative impacts of Brexit are hitting home has made me angrier than ever at this whole sorry saga.

So, here is a thread for people to list their real-world Brexit experiences since 1 Jan - good or bad.  The rules are that they need to have happened to you, your family, or your job/business.

To start the ball rolling..

On the UKC/Rockfax front travel restrictions have made it much more difficult (and expensive) for our authors and employees who aren't permanently based in the UK. Packages are harder to send and we aren't yet sure how the incredibly complex VAT situation will pan out.

My wife, who works in University language education, has had the entire student exchange program turned upside down to the point that it is now near-impossible for students to spend some time in an EU country and also for EU students to come here. The Turing program doesn't even come close to covering this although if you have loads of money then you can probably arrange an exchange, but there is so much bureaucracy. They didn't call it Fortress Europe for nothing, but it was so much better being inside the fortress.

On the positive side, the Dutch government has said that, if we want to relocate to Holland, then I don't need Dutch citizenship to stay for longer than 90 days.

Alan

I have a family member who runs a small events and hospitality business. Stymied by lockdowns, she hit upon the great idea of supplying small food and drink hampers, so that video event participants can still share a common lunch or celebratory drinks. A fair proportion of these sales were to people and companies still in the EU but since January 1st it is no longer feasible to continue these. Double whammy.

No particular personal impact yet except a few veg' missing from the shop.

We have 3 new desks at work dedicated to brexit triggered paperwork, that's UK-EU goods movements only. Nobody has really twigged yet that our trade deals with the rest of the world also got torn up so there's change coming there too. We still have only 2ish admin staff, the desks are just desks with more work on them. My sympathy is somewhat limited, tearing up the Brussels red tape was pretty popular round the office back in 2016.

jk

I have a blue passport (my old one had run out, and it seemed to make sense to renew now while they're quiet rather than in the summer when they'll be very busy indeed - proved to be the right move as it only took about a week).  It is actually blue (very dark) and not black.

That's the sum total of the effect on me so far, but that's primarily because I can't go anywhere anyway

I work in IT as a freelancer.  I'm seeing a lot of contracts that offer remote working, but only if you're an EU citizen.  Very frustrating given the current UK market has a lot of people looking for work.

Interstingly enough I was speaking to a business owner in Northern Ireland yesterday. They are very happy with the position and expect NI to boom as it has positioned as being  both in the UK and in the EU.The only blip seemed to be some food imports for them, but he was not worried.He was a remain voter.

As he was placing an order with my business it was good to hear his optimism.

I have also been shipping stuff to the EU and rest of the world. No issues. Straightforward. Even got product into Mexcio which because of new trade deal I was expecting issues at customs ( as we are now UK and not EU). But all went smoothly.Mexico is notoriously difficult for shipping into and I thought changes would cause headaches.

Had enquiries from Europe. So no sign of it hitting sales.

People are more concerned about Covid impact on movement of goods than Brexit in B2B.

Its telling that your post which is generally positive about the lack of impact on your business recieves more dislikes than likes. Maybe some people don't like hearing that there are businesses working through the early problems and showing signs of succeeding. 

I work for a UK based climbing company, and it's been a complete nightmare for us. Our business is probably split into thirds in terms of the markets we sell our goods into - the UK, EU and the Rest of the World. We had extensive discussions last year with VAT specialists, transport companies, IT companies etc and consulted the government websites for information. The upshot is that it was extremely difficult for us, or anyone we spoke to, to prepare for an outcome that was only revealed at the 11th hour. There was no clarity on what would be required apart from some general provisos. The experts were as in the dark as we were, and scrambling desperately for some firm central guidance. We did what we could and covered many of the bases, however the impact on the business has been overwhelming.

We've had to spend a lot of money on updating our IT systems, to satisfy the requirements for additional information and documentation. The work is ongoing. Given the lack of any kind of transition period, and the lateness of the deal, everyone is having to learn by trial and error. More and more previously unforeseen issues crop up, needing a fix.

The free trade deal isn't actually a free trade deal. Our products are manufactured in China, India, Turkey (we have extensively investigated manufacturing in the UK, but for most of our products the costs are prohibitive), the UK (a small number of products) and the EU (a small number of products). Only the UK and EU products are tariff free, the majority of our products will attract tariffs when shipped to the EU. For clothing this is typically 12% on top of the regular price, which is not insignificant.

All of our customers now have to pay VAT at their country's rate on import, which is fine, but they also have to pay a flat rate for customs clearance, which seems to be in the €18 range. I'm sure that it's clear to see that any lower cost items, like trousers and tees are no longer an attractive proposition for our EU customers. Sales for many items have already dropped.

We've had a number of transport issues as companies struggle to comply with the new regulations, and there've been long delays for customers. DPD, one of our main couriers, has suspended services for weeks now to try to get on top if the situation. Obviously the issue has been compounded by Covid, but taken together it's a double blow. Shipping costs have increased across the board both for us and our EU customers to cover the new customs declarations required.

Our EU trade customers who used to be able to purchase ex. VAT will now have to pay VAT on entry and then reclaim it, which is potentially off-putting for cash flow reasons.

To try and manage the situation, we've engaged the services of a warehouse in the Netherlands, and will be transferring stock into the EU to facilitate our EU customers. It does seem at this point like it'd be more cost effective just to relocate to the EU, and have access to frictionless trade with 27 countries rather than just the one. Logistically there are increased costs and complications associated with running two warehouses, one in the UK and one in the EU.

I've read plenty of comments from people espousing the idea that Brexit complications are nothing more than a short term inconvenience for businesses. Our experience of it is that nothing could be further from the truth. The business is being forced to fundamentally change. Increased costs across the board mean that profits are taking a hit. There's absolutely nothing beneficial about it at all, even when it comes to markets outside of the EU, where essentially there's no change. The government ads in the lead up to the deadline, chirpily reminding us all to prepare for Brexit, made me want to smash the telly. Prepare for what exactly? On that they were notably vague! 

On a personal note I'm Irish and my two daughters have Irish citizenship, for which I'm very grateful. EU travel, work and study will be uncomplicated  for them in the future. We have a dog, and normally we'd travel regularly both to Ireland and France, to visit family and for climbing purposes. Before, we paid about £30 on the ferry to France each way for pet passport admin, and about £25/£30 vet fees in France pre return. Ireland was totally free. I'll now have to pay £70-£100 for a health cert every time we visit Ireland and a admin fee on the ferry to process the documentation.

Both professionally and personally, I've yet to see evidence of any benefits to Brexit. How we could have rejected the deal we had for what we have now blows my mind. As so many have pointed out, what country voluntarily exchanges an excellent trade deal for an absolutely terrible one? Many companies have already relocated to the EU and I'm sure many more will follow, depriving the UK of the income and employment that could have been generated. 

Odd. What you say doesn't seem to square at all with what the DUP are saying today:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55640213

As a UK citizen resident in an EU country almost too many to mention, but just to mention 2 one trivial one not:

1. When meeting people of other nationalities (which is most people I meet) I tend to feel obliged to apologise for being a Brit when asked where I come from 

2. There's significant uncertainty about whether my wife will receive the state pension she's contributed 20 years into. 

A positive Irishman is something to behold.

I am not really sure you should be holding up the DUP as a paragon of virtue.

I look at it as a typically shrewd Irish businessman understands how he can turn it to his advantage.

What's the threat to state pensions?

I did not think we were discussing virtue at all; I was simply passing on the problems of trade that an MP is reporting. I'm no more holding that MP up as 'a paragon of virtue' than I'm holding you up as 'a paragon of virtue'.

I gave that a like but really I'm raging.

jk

It is telling that after four years of lies and bullsh*t people are not inclined to believe good news around Brexit. 

I can't now send parcels directly to my sister in France from online shopping.  Previously I could send her stuff from John Lewis.  They won't deliver there now. 

I bought clothes for my niece in the sales.  I will now have to list each item in detail and find a 10 digit code for each and fill in some extremely boring paperwork just to send her a present.  I'm not clear if there will be duty to pay.  

I won't be able to move to France as I planned. 

The DUP are just upset their very clever ruse to have the republic fenced off blew up in their face like a dodgy pipe bomb.

Their role in hastening Irish reunification is brexit's true crowning glory, the schadenfreude is next level.

jk

I think people are perfectly happy to hear about things that aren't as bad as expected, it is just disappointing that seems to be the peak of the positive message at the moment. 

Alan

Supplier in Germany couldn't accept an order due to complexities of brexit.

Alternative supplier in the UK used instead at a higher cost (supplier is essentially an importer/middleman to products manufactured in Germany so add on their %).

Higher cost will either need to be absorbed or passed onto customers.

I tried to send a late Christmas present to a friend in Northern Ireland only to find out that brewery wouldn't post to Northern Ireland any more. Which was a shame, still need to do something about that. 

Secondly looking at an extra £100 bill to go over to Northern Ireland to see my other half's family with our dog.

That is sad, I am sorry

We have spent 10+ years as free-spirits, touring climbing and working (guidebooks of course) between the UK and Europe - though mostly Europe tbh, especially in the winter.

With Brexit we have to be back in the UK by the end of March (assuming we are allowed to travel just to complicate things) - and stay there until July before we can go way again July is usually the time we are back in the UK as Europe is hot, busy and expensive. Can't bear even thinking about it at the mo - so depressing

Chris

It has profoundly f*cked up my daughter's plans. She embarked on a French and German degree so she could work in hospitality in Europe, she'd done a gap year there and a summer season. Something that was her birth right - citizenship of Europe - was taken from her, and I've yet to hear a single person advance a single benefit that anyone has accrued to compensate.

I really struggle to feel sympathy for  fisherman and farmers, did they really do so little research before betting their livelihoods on what they were promised by Farage, Johnson and Gove?  

After living 23 years in Norway and having permanent residency as an EU citizen, I now have to make a new application for residency because I'm no longer considered a European. Should be just a technicality but also an inconvenience, requiring an appointment with the immigration police in these Covid times.

likewise I had an interview at the local préfecture last week for a residency permit here in France. Should be a formality but wasn't necessary before and wasted a day. Not a great hardship but I've still to hear of any real advantage to the UK from Brexit.

I have accepted it now.  

I am most sad for the younger generation.  Their chances to work and travel easily has been taken away.  

I think brexit got cancelled or it is getting cancelled ! 

As far as I'm aware were still paying billions to Europe,  thousands of illegal immigrants are still being escorted over the channel and we still don't have the rights to are own fishing grounds just for starters so , , ,  there is still hope yet

Yes, I seem to remember that being in both the EU and the UK had some advantages. No wonder he’s pleased.

I've been apologising for brits for 20 years long before brexit !! 

So it's now harder to work in Australia , Canada,  America , India , China,  Russia , Peru, Iran,  Iraq,   Argentina? 

It’s probably a bit early days to start a thread like this. Particularly with the impact of a pandemic on trade and travel. Unless of course, the intention is to bask in a predictable pond of like-minded negativity, helping to justify your own opinions based on personal experience.

I’m not trivialising your own mood on this. But I’d prefer to see the question a few years down the line.

Stick to being funny. 

Not everyone has rich parents darling. 

I went to France at 18 for the summer on the ferry.  Paid for my trip by working when I got there.  

Sure, the rich kids can go have a nice gap year in those and other countries.  It wasn't an option for me and it isn't for the majority of normal teenagers.  

Been trying to get my head round the UKCA/CE/BSI thing - a year to transition I think?  Then after that only UKCA/BSI?  Does this mean a period of kit being sold off ultra cheap to clear followed by a price hike?

50 years? In the long run, we're all dead.

Well I just thought I’d mention it. 15 days into a Brexit transition, in the midst of a pandemic, and emerging new variants etc. What really is the point of the question? Unless you want to wallow in bad news. 

Best to quote Zhou Enlai in these situations.

What's the good news?  It said in the OP good news too.  

Neil has his Blue Passport.  

With Covid that 350 million a week for the NHS can't come soon enough.  

But what you are seeing here is people that have suffered due to Brexit AND a pandemic.  These are real issues effecting real people. This isn't the Brexit transition by the way, that was last year.

I can’t help you with any of your sound bytes. I don’t possess any strong feelings here. The more positive news is... eventually you might possibly adapt.

I was commenting on the rather downbeat OP, canvassing predictably downbeat responses (given the timing)for a fest of downbeatism. Fill your boots.... pretend I’m not here.

As someone who really values your climbing guides, this is really sad to hear.

My company, a financial services company founded by brits and run from the UK moved to France in 1st Jan. Currently it is mostly still staffed in the UK under an outsourcing agreement but we have employed all new staff in the EU, currently 25% of our headcount and increasing. Corporation tax and employee tax is France's gain to the UK's detriment. 

Found it, nicked it, spent it.

On Serco TTI... Mates' rates...

Just about all of our distribution deals are for products that come out of Europe, mainly Germany and Belgium.

So far the only change has been with 1 company who increased their minimum order from £125 net to £250 net and delivery from £20.50 to £49.95 and a 5% overall price increase. This one supplier also has one product line that is made in the UK and that line has the same increase. 

On the plus side, the roads around the south east are virtually free of foreign trucks. Not sure how long the country will continue with the lack of imports though. 

Lots more cheap cars available as the Polish aren't buying them all up. Probably more down to Covid at the moment. 

On the down side

I tried ordering some items from the EU but all deliveries to the UK were suspended. 

Looks like my future retirement plans are f****ed

My work will be affected but not sure how badly yet, hopefully I'll keep my job. 

Clear off then. A deal done on the basis of untruths, manipulation and pandering to a load of gammons was always going to be a bad deal - for us, for Europe and for anybody with one iota of intelligence or real-world empathy, decency and commitment to   a sustainable future. And it’s a fecking great big nail in the coffin that is the future of the millions of the next generation. Sadly, there’s no vaccine for Brexit.

Too much negativity on this thread . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

Has no one noticed how much happier the fish are ?

I’ve been a member of EU research strategy and funding committees for quite a long time. My contacts in Brussels have been in touch to renew my membership for the duration of ‘Horizon Europe’ funding carrying on from Horizon 2020. We can still access these funding schemes along with ERC, which is tremendous as the U.K. is one of the leading participants.

I’m not sure about the ERDF Structural Funds which really benefit our small and medium businesses. However we have some live programmes at the moment and the talk among the local enterprise partnerships is positive about future participation. 
Airbus is pulling together collaborative partners for EU project bids and are approaching U.K. collaborators as we’re critical to development of the more electric aircraft.

It is a terrible waste of everything, but it’s not all doom and gloom.

JRM : "British fish are happier"

Of course the are. There's no sodding market for them.

Well I’m very happy to clear off and leave you to gaze at your navel.

I seem to remember that there was a very clear opportunity to remain in Europe, but it was a campaign fought with complacency against another fought with hysteria. The rest is history and you need to move on.

Paul - likewise with me. Good contacts maintained in Brussels, and without the recrimination from mainland European partners, which I am very relieved about. Still called for evaluations of such valuable programmes as Marie S-C scholarships and H2020 too. A ray of sunshine, which may continue, thank goodness

But it is sad and profoundly depressing about Erasmus+ which Turing won’t come close to, in spite of claims otherwise. 

AKA the moronavirus.

“It is too soon to say”

Complacency by the leadership, not by Remainers; and 'hysterical' doesn't cover it, it was well funded carefully orchestrated demagoguery and lies, backed by a lying media prepared to say anything to misinform their audiences.

'Move on' - where the f*CK to? We're still part of Europe, the idea that we can have any similar relationship to, say, the US, China, India is just so much geographical and cultural fantasy.

We're within the EU field of gravity - that's a geographical fact. We need to start rebuilding our political and all those other  relationships, and rejoin by stealth. It's going to happen.

He gave up on that a long time ago!

I'm fed up of people who want us to be quiet about the consequences.  

Project fear. 

You lost, get over it

The truth is we all lost.  

The only winners are the rich tax dodgers.  That's what this was all really about.  

Friends and family in the fishing industry are not so happy. 

But its easy enough to move the boats and land the catches in the EU

The gammons will have to learn to eat something other than cod for a change. 😂

are you a Fuxiteer?

all of those "politicians" who railroaded us into this shambles - the most objective thing I can say is that they were acting against the interest of the Nation and against the welfare of the British people

Traitors, carrying out policies beloved of Trump and Putin

I've said many times I voted remain. However, whats done is done and its time to get on with life outside of the European Union. We were never fully in it anyway and its been a distant and sometimes uncomfortable relationship. As much as I love the European countries and their people I had no affection for the European political machine. Its always been mainly to the benefit of Germany and France and they continue to prosper whilst others suffer, especially in the Mediterranean countries.  They've got their European parliament,  they've got their single currency,  they want ever closer union. Let them get in with it. There is no reason why the UK can't succeed outside of the EU and still be friends, allies and trading partners of the EU as well as the rest of the world. Things are rarely as bad as they initially seem.

It is probably to do with the NI aspect to the post which I did not find very positive. Still waiting for one benefit from Stupidity. Happy fish and preferential treatment for 6 counties do not count

(I did not hit dislike)

a.k.a. It may not be that bad.

About the nearest to the promised sunny uplands people voted for that we ever hear nowadays.

FAKE NEWS!

E.g. https://www.scmp.com/article/970657/not-letting-facts-ruin-good-story

But this is moving on. Do you suggest that people should keep quiet and not describe how their lives have been made more difficult by Brexit? Is that moving on in your book? How do you solve the problems without acknowledging them?

There may be good and bad consequences of Brexit, and these will be short or long term. There is also the 'stay the same' category which could well be the biggest. However, there is little doubt that the short and long-term bad categories are filling up fast. Just talk to fishermen, language teachers, young musicians, scientists, small business food exporters, etc. 

The short term gain category appears to be totally empty which has meant that Brexit apologists now only have the "it's too early to tell", "time to move on", and "at least the fish are British and happy" left. That isn't good enough.

Alan

I assume you write to your MP ( letters not emails) detailing your issues. 

 I have  a relentless campaign detailing the inadequacies of the deal with my MP and also through Department of Business. 

I hope you do the same .

It is the only way SMEs get their message across . 

Real world Brexit experience.

Prior to Brexit, I could move freely at any time between our small cottage in Greece and my small apartment in the UK. This was my choice in retirement: to be able to climb, walk, work in the garden in a beautiful place and yet be able to pop back and visit my kids and grandkids whenever I wanted. This was a benefit of living in the EU... and one that I valued hugely.

Now, as a consequence of Brexit, I have a choice. The first is to accept a reduction of freedom in that I have to get out of the EU after 90 days and can’t return until 180 have expired. So this means no emergency trips back to the UK once the time limit is exceeded. No popping back to my garden in Greece to rebuild a collapsed wall (real world example). 

The alternative is to take up permanent residency in Greece but this means I then have no choice but to stay there for more than 180 days a year, convert to tax residency there, relinquish NHS status and a host of other complications. I really didn’t want to do this.

Now some might say ‘diddums, poor little rich retiree (I’m not!)’ and insist that this was minor in the scale of things. Well, this thread is about real life examples of the consequences of Brexit, and for us it’s a bloody disaster.

Well, from UKC/Rockfax point of view, there isn't that much to lobby about yet. From my wife's point of view, she has spent two weeks tearing her hair out over the obstacles that are now in the way. She is lobbying all the right people but there is little sign that, without major U-turns in the agreement, anything will change. This is basically the end of effective language learning in the UK.

What I think many have underestimated, which is now becoming very clear, is that the difference between being in the Customs Union/Single Market and nothing, is vast.

Alan

It is exactly the sort of thing that I was looking for Carl. I would also welcome stories from young people who said that they suddenly had many new opportunities, or small business owners realising that there are vast new markets available to them, since that would make it easier to take, but they are conspicuous by their absence for the most part.

Having said that, ironically my three children's stock has risen considerably. As native English speakers who hold Dutch passports, they are now in a relatively exclusive group. That can hardly go down as a Brexit bonus though since the bonus part is because they have still have the benefits of being an EU citizen.

Alan

I need to buy some hard rubber handrail profile for the gunwale rubbing strip on my boat.

Early December I communicated with some companies in Europe who supplied it by the meter. They sent me a sample. Just went to order 20m of the stuff today and it is all out of stock everywhere.

I messaged one of the companies and this is the answer I got.

”The lack of product availability for England is due to Brexit. Unfortunately, all sellers have to fulfill many formalities to be able to send to England, such as English VAT, we have been waiting for it for 3 months ... Without that, we cannot send the strip outside the EU, i.e. to England .. but unfortunately it is impossible at the moment.”

The other real world issue is the company I work for have calculated it costs £1,000,000 per year more to trade with the EU now just in the extra paperwork. Not something we can or would want to avoid so that’s an ongoing cost every year now.

Precisely our situation with possible residency in Spain, not happy!

Chris

Waste of time and paper.

Went to get some stuff from the Royal Enfield Owners Club, a club where most members have a vintage BRITISH motorbike. Only very limited stuff available because of problems with paperwork.

Why ?

Because the person who currently deals with all this is in NORTHERN IRELAND !

I’m not suggesting anything of the sort. My original remark (which caused quite a stir) was that fifteen days after Brexit might be a little early to make any profound analysis of the impact.

My comment about moving on was directed solely at Greenbanks. Who, by the tone of his/her post doesn’t appear to have moved on at all, just more rubbish about who to blame. Brexit has happened.

I have two guys who have been working for me for about 5 years. They're cycling guides.

They work Mallorca from January to April then with me in Provence from May until October.

The 90 day bullshit has really screwed us all up. No idea how we'll get round it.

That's amongst all the other things like all the hassle of getting residence permits etc etc but perhaps the main one was all the stress and anxiety for 4 years non stop.

For 4 years I was told to get over it and suck it up. I have been called a loser quite often.

I'm at the stage now that when I see a brexit voting business owner really having a hard time and complaining on in the news or on social media - I'm overjoyed with schadenfeude.

Like another poster said, leaving a free trade bloc with a population of 1/2 billion people, giving up the right to freely travel, study, live, work and eventually retire in 27 other countries, making it harder for your kids to study abroad - all for absolutely nothing - blows my mind.

E

I am sure you are fully familiar with the phrase, 'you can't polish a turd'..... 

It would appear that in commercial terms, going purely by the contents of this thread, that this statement is quite incorrect. Ditto for the scientific and cultural spheres. 

It’s a strange reply considering your first response to me implied that I should keep quiet (during adult discourse)

I’m not asking you to keep quiet at all. My own feeling is that it’s a little early to know what the consequences are, in a general sense. Particularly with the added disruption owing to Covid.

If in the long term, the U.K. prospers, there will always be many who say that it was despite Brexit, not because of Brexit. But who knows? A bit of both probably, because business will adapt. I didn’t vote for any of this, but nevertheless I certainly won’t be looking backwards, wheeling out the same old rubbish about being lied to, by folk in ivory towers. The remain camp only became truly passionate once the referendum was lost.

I was referring to the political relationship rather than anything else.

I have set out to my MP and the Dept of BIS the specific impacts on my business. 
 

There will be ongoing negotiations for years to come  with the EU and it is best to make your voice heard. 

As a result I am asked for feedback on specific issues.Do not bury your head in the sand and think it does not matter.   

Just write and tell them your experiences.

'We were never fully in it anyway'

I defy you to tell my kids that - 41, 25 and 23 - for them  citizenship of Europe was something that they took for granted and made full use of, and were conscious of every day. They preferred being European to being English, as would I. Among other things membership was some protection against the depredations successive waves of incompetent and corrupt Tory governments, playing fast and loose with the environment, civil liberties, overseas development and technology and scientific development. 

How about hiring a local person in Provence, or are French employment laws re: pay and taxation too restrictive? Reference post BREXIT trading, CAN Holdings is a multi million pound business, spread over U.K., Europe and USA, of which 20 years ago I was a director. The owner has employed thousands of people on well above average salaries over the years. He went from a standing start in 1986 to The Times rich list and he donated £100K to the BREXIT campaign on the way. No sign of them flagging, as they are always lean, mean, adaptive and ahead of the curve. Nobody yet knows how BREXIT will pan out if the EU politicians, not business wish to continue to punish the U.K. One instant odd scenario is Scottish fisherman cannot export, but EU boats still fish U.K. waters. Are EU landed fish from U.K. waters different to domestic catch from same plaice.  Surely they too should require an export health certificate now that the fish have left the EU?

The adults were talking about the topic as explained very very clearly in the OP.  

Real specific experiences of Brexit so far.  Not general or long term outcomes.  

I shushed you as one does when someone wanders into a conversation shouting over the topic and telling people that their lived experiences don’t count and spouting pandemic whataboutery 

Still, at least you took my advice.   The UK prospering long term because of Brexit.  Hilarious.  

Having left the EU my family can no longer watch YLE Areena - the Finnish equivalent of BBC iPlayer legally. Our youngest child, 3, is like his older teenaged brothers, properly bilingual despite having been born and only lived in the UK because of the effort my partner goes to making sure he is exposed to as much, if not more, Finnish as English. One part of that is he's as happy to watch Paw Patrol in Finnish on YLE as he is to watch it in English! We can still watch via a VPN, but I suppose that's technically illegal, when 3 weeks ago it was perfectly legal. 

I work in Financial Services and was heavily involved in the Hard Brexit contingency planning. It was generally perceived that we wouldn’t need this plan as a deal would be done and there would be equivalence between National competent authorities. We had to execute our Hard Brexit plan. The upshot is that some of our U.K. business has moved to our EU branch. In very basic terms employees will need to move to the EU if they want to keep their jobs. The tax revenue(corporate) is now in the EU and will be at a higher rate so our profitability will take a hit. At the moment just a few products are affected but it’s a momentum thing and ultimately more business will move to the EU. In the long term new markets/products will probably evolve but there is no certainty that the U.K. business will ever be as profitable. 
Personally, I’ll have to spend more time in the EU for work but atm no idea how that will unfold. Potentially I may have to leave the U.K. 

How does that exemption work in your case?

My parents run a craft business in France and mainly sell through online retailers such as Etsy. Their sales are roughly 25% UK, 50% EU and 25% to the rest of the world. 

Due the complicated half way house of having a limited trade deal their sales to the UK are likely to take a big hit. It's not the end of the world but it's a busy marketplace so most buyers will opt to shop elsewhere. Post Christmas sales are normally slow but this year they are almost non-existent. 

What do you do if your MP is an extreme-right ERG member, as mine is, actively promoting this fiasco?

I think I’d write to him every day telling him he’s a c&nt. 

If worded in the correct way (ie using words like disappointed, utter and failure) and done en-masse then I’d like to think this would have a significant effect and maybe the penny would drop that such idealism has  Had a significant negative impact. 
 

As melodramatic as ever and over egging the pudding to the extent that you've scrambled all your eggs. 

I work in an NHS lab and it has made a costly difference to work. Urgent orders now take 7 days from Germany instead of 2. Where it hits is if an analyser breaks down, an engineer previously could ring before 5pm and probably get a part next day, even if it meant him picking it up from the DHL depot at the airport prior to coming to us. Now an analyser could be dead for a few days. The analyser companies UK base don't want to stockpile parts which could be £5-10k each.

Generally, for reagents we've been stockpilling, but thing happen. To counteract this we talk to other Trusts and pass products via taxis/freewheelers to each other when needed. This is not ideal as it breaks the cold chain trail.

For you as a punter this all has a cost. Overordering costs. When stuff expires and is thrown, it costs. Not being able to do the work if we're down, costs; there's logistics to send work to another site. A patient not getting results prior to an appointment with an expensive consultant costs; another possible appointment.

And maybe it has a cost to the individual patient. Last night A&E rang me wondering why a patient had been sent in at 4am by GPout of hours. The samples had gone to another hospital and, due to the c**p NHS IT systems, results were not on their system (I work in a network where 3 hospitals all use different IT systems!). I sorted it, but what abnormal results that require action fall through the system.

Many are just fools made in and damaged by a dying empire.

jk

You really, really didn't get it, did you?

Where on earth do you get the idea EU politicians "wish to continue to punish the UK"? This is entirly self inflicted.

It's not that they can't export, it's that we just chose to create regulatory hurdles which mean they can no longer get fresh product to market profitably. Fishing communities overwhelmingly voted for this and after all, we're told over and over again leave voters knew what they were doing. This isn't 'EU punishment', this is just the utterly callous idiocy of brexit finally laid bare.

jk

Everything in your power to ensure they're held to account.

jk

Get what exactly? Life goes on. Let's see how the dust settles over the next couple of years. 

You flatter yourself. 
I’ll avoid advising you on your posting style, but I will say that I never look upon anybody’s opinions as invalid. 

If it's the same CAN i'm thinking of i'm not surprised. Probably salivating at the incoming bonfire of regulations regarding worker's rights and the open season tax dodging shenanigans they'll be able to indulge on.

Right, so it can't be the same CAN, as the CAN i'm thinking of pays the lowest rates in the industry bar none, and that by a sizeable margin.

It'd be somewhat poignant if the example of a company who supports Brexit and looks at thriving after Brexit, turns out to be the one exploiting their workers the most within the industry it operates in, don't you think?

While I am definitely on the same page with regards to the fact that there don’t seem to be any real benefits to the entire debacle, I’m not sure that travel and work will be that hard in the longer term.  Travel for up to 90 days should be really easy and if someone really wants to work in France then it’s still possible with an employment contract and a CDS submission... and I am sure there are other routes too.  Sure...there’s much more bureaucracy involved now but (based on my experience of life in France) it’ll be good training for setting up social security, creating a small business or a whole host of other necessary admin here.  
 

I do, of course, understand that it’s disheartening for those who could once just set off and hope it all worked out, but with effort and a determined approach to the bureaucracy I believe anyone who wants to move out to somewhere like France to live and work can probably still do so.  But yes, it’s not as easy now, and time will tell just how it affects the numbers of Brits out here etc..:

Because it makes it easier to rationalise the damage being done....if you can blame the other party rather than accept you actually voted for this it eases the conscience. 

This will be the Brexiteer mantra over the next while; already been adopted by the Daily Mail and Brexiteers like bonkers Bridgen : calling the EU, “ petty” and “ vindictive” for applying their rules to their own borders.

So ironic , given the EU is simply exerting  its own sovereignty over its borders - Brexiteers should be loving it!

A very first world problem, but we planned to go on a long trip later this year. Mix of climbing/walking and spending time in various cities/countries with an aim to move out to the continent to work/live in the next few years. The 90 day rule has scuppered that for me (Dutch partner is still okay). No doubt things will be a bit more complicated with our dog too.

A lot of contracts in my line of work were often for businesses in the EU. Those contracts generally explicitly exclude U.K. based workers now.

Mine is a card carrying ERG nutjob. Any letters to him receive an identically worded automatic response and nothing more. I gave up writing to him a long time ago.

But, given that he wasn't even smart enough to not leak the canary trap letter warning that the leaker would get fired, the jury is out on whether he has sufficient intellect to be capable of changing his mind anyway.

Accountability for your representatives is a luxury that doesn't exist for those who live in a safe seat under FPTP.

Still write. You are writing as a business owner explaining how it impacts on your business. 

you know that, and I know that; I just want to hear from someone who claims it to be true why they think that way.

We would have to go and properly settle there, it isn't a holiday exemption, so in that sense, my statement was slightly misleading. 

https://www.government.nl/topics/brexit/question-and-answer/can-my-british-...

More details here - https://ind.nl/en/eu-eea/Pages/Family-member-with-different-nationality.asp...

It costs €64

Alan

I don't mean the UK state pension, I mean the EU local (to us) pension.  As a EU citizen they had to pay a pension as if she was a national.  Now they don't.  It's entirely unclear that they will continue to honour this, despite her paying the pension part of the social insurance contributions for almost 20 years.  At a recent visit to the government offices responsible for this to discuss it they were non-committal, to say the least. 

Your reply to bridie made me laugh out loud (I'm sure it wasn't meant for that but thanks) and the above could be the chorus to a half man half biscuit snog . 

Ok thanks. So the Dutch government allows a non-Dutch citizen to settle in the country if they have a Dutch partner, but that's a purely Dutch matter and you wouldn't then have any special travel rights across the rest of the EU. Is that correct?

I think the 90-day thing would kick in for me in other countries in the EU.

Yes, it is a Dutch thing only which might come as a surprise to Brexit supporters who are still under the misapprehension that immigration rules in the EU are dictated by Brussels.

Alan

This disaster may be the one golden opportunity they've gifted us to make those seats unsafe, to change how we see them.

Jk

Thanks. I'm confused by that answer: the administration (and payment) of pensions is a matter for each country, not the EU as a body - see e.g. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/retire-abroad/state-pensions-abr...

Which country are you in?

(Note: I am not arguing; you are the people in the position, and I sympathize with anybody having to sort out such matters. I am simply trying to clarify.)

 I’m not sure that travel and work will be that hard in the longer term.  

So, all the serious young UK climbers living in their vans who aim to get strong by over-wintering in Siurana/Leonidio/Chulilla etc, get kicked out/fined for overstaying after 3 months (ie by December if they arrived in October).

And if they do leave on time, they won't be allowed back until April.  

So will they agree with you that it "wasn't that much harder than before"? 

"No-one knows how Brexit will pan out" and "no sign of them (CAN Holdings) flagging" - so do you know or don't you?

"EU Politicians punishing the UK".  An EU student will soon have to pay £20K+ to study in the UK for a year. Is that the UK punishing the EU or just us applying the rules?

.. and as for the fish point, well it is such obvious nonsense that it isn't really worth addressing.

I wouldn't expect too much from this post. Phil has a habit of chucking stink-bombs into threads but never being prepared to defend his comments when questioned.

Alan

Or the musicians who can no longer do extended European tours which was the mainstay of their livelihoods. Or the students hoping to properly study a language and culture but are now going to have to stay in the UK to do this since a year abroad is going to only be possible if you have enough money.

Alan

Yeah, because it is well known that European countries give out work visas like lollipop.

'Let's see how the dust settles over the next couple of years. '

That's exactly what you don't get. You may, right now, be as happy as a pig in sh*t, if so well done; other people are making plans, having hopes and aspirations, trying to create their futures. And you're telling them to wait until the dust settles.

Apart from anything else, do you really think that's a great way to run a country?

https://www.ft.com/content/55588f86-a4f8-4cf3-aecb-38723b787569

It is still possible to live and work in the EU but now there are barriers to it. A UK worker will now always lose out to an equally qualified EU worker.

Our company has been in the UK for over 30 years. In 2018, our workforce was 60% UK, 30% US, 10% Middle East. Our clients in recent years have been around 40% US, 20% Middle East, 20% Asia/Oceania, 15% EU, 2% UK.

The bulk of our work is completed from our offices but most projects require one or two members to integrate with our clients' on-site teams for months at a time. Although very few of our clients are UK based, it has remained worthwhile to maintain a UK base because of the ease of travelling and working in the EU/EEA.

All staff were previously qualified to work in every EU or EEA state. Most staff (and anyone who gains UK qualifications in our industry in the future) will now only have their UK qualifications recognised in Ireland (where we have only had one minor project in the last 8 years) and Portugal (where we have never done any work). 

We have not won a single contract in the EU since brexit. It has been made clear to us that post brexit bureaucracy and costs have been the primary reason that some long standing clients have instead gone with our French and Italian competitors who are now cheaper and easier to deal with. A lot of EU projects require staff to have a permanent right to live and work in the EU in order to bid because clients aren't interested in additional bureaucracy.

The additional bureaucracy and PI requirements to continue to operate in the EU are no longer justified at our end and are no longer cost effective or time effective to our EU clients. 

Since 2018, whenever a UK member of staff has left, they have been replaced by someone US based. This year, all of the UK based people in site based roles have been made redundant, as have a number of people in office based roles. The same number of people have been hired to do similar roles in the US. The shift away from the UK is accelerating, I'm not staying to see how long it takes before the company exits the UK completely.

We have 2 UK based competitors, both have set up EU operations due to brexit. One has closed their UK operation completely, the other one has cut 80% of its UK staff so far.

Eventually, I expect we will reach an agreement for mutual recognition of qualifications. I doubt there will be anything left of our niche industry in the UK by the time it happens.

My equivalence and registration for guiding work in France and Switzerland is no longer valid. There is no net benefit to Brexit; that was and is obvious to anyone who chooses to look. 

I work in e-commerce and we facilitate international sales for a large number of retailers. Many of the UK ones have struggled in the same way as you, largely due to the lack of clarity to the very end. Many have temporarily paused sales to the EU to figure things out. Others have been forced to pause because their courier companies have halted deliveries to the EU. We also have a lot of EU retailers that are halting their sales to the UK because of the additional burden of remitting UK VAT.

I suspect that the dust will settle at some point in February, but I don't see how the end result is going to be a positive change for online retail.

Behind the paywall for me but I got the headline.

The article below is interesting and reflects a lot of the posts on this thread.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/17/shock-brexit-charges-are-h...

I understand that the reverse is true as well with EU businesses being crippled from exporting into the UK because of the demands of the HMRC. Would this be the UK 'punishing' the EU or the sensible application of rules?

Alan

Apart from anything else, I can't see how this 'wait until the dust settles' metaphor helps. When someone blows up a building is the building alright when the dust settles?

I would imagine that no country gives them out like lollipops.  In my experience of having had work visas in China, Oman, Kuwait, Cambodia, Thailand and a few other places, when one wants to live and work somewhere, the bureaucratic hoops are quite easily jumped through...although obviously it isn't as easy as accepting a handed out lollipop.

So political decisions should be made based on over-wintering climbers in their vans?   It was a nice thing to be able to do for many climbers...that's for sure and I suspect they'll miss those super-long trips.

I'm referring more to people who wish to travel to work in mainland Europe....those who really want to will probably find a way.  

It's the politics of the nursery. Toddlers normally grow out of it quite quickly, they realise that good things rarely happen if they just make a mess everywhere.

Well if you think getting a work visa in Thailand  is remotely similar to the kind of requirements needed to get the same in most European country you are quite deluded.

People think it’s just a matter of filling a few forms. It isn’t, you need to qualify. As a rule of thumb, about 70% if British people would not qualify for a vise in a country like France. (And vice versa)

Started going through your list and by the time i got to Cambodia i realised you are being somewhat economical with the truth...

A common requirement for all those countries in order to obtain a work visa is for a Chinese/Omani/whatever company to sponsor you, provide a work contract before the Visa is issued, apply for a work permit on your behalf, and in some cases prove you have the skills for specialist roles, which is a requirement that can't be met by jumping through hoops all you want

Are you sure you 'easily jumped through hoops' rather than, you know, a company jumping through those hoops and then handing you out a lollipop?

http://www.chinese-embassy.org.uk/eng//xnyfgk/t514397.htm

https://shieldgeo.com/oman-immigration-and-work-permits/

https://www.rop.gov.om/english/dg_pr_visas_employment.html

https://shieldgeo.com/kuwait-immigration-and-work-permits/

https://www.gulfvisa.com/visa-services/kuwait/work-visa/

So true. I'm guilty of using that metaphor; what I intended to say was that by February we should have a better idea of what the pile of rubble looks like.

I haven’t said it is easy to get a work visa in those countries, I have said it is generally far harder to obtain one in western countries.

And the reason is obvious, really, far more people queuing up to live in France, Germany or UK then there are queuing up to live in Cambodia.

Indeed, the company employing me had to go through some bureaucracy too but yes, I did most of the visa application myself.  The situation wouldn’t be any different in the EU now, I suspect. 
 

I’ll restate that I am totally against Brexit and don’t think there is anything positive to come from it.  I just don’t think it’s the end of the possibility of moving out to France or Spain to live and work, as some seem to be suggesting.  It’ll be more difficult in the short term but I believe in the longer term it’ll work itself out. But god forbid anyone taking the line that it’s bad for freedom of movement, but not as bad as some seem to make out.  Trying to retain even an inkling of positivit’s (even slightly) just isn’t the done thing in the anti-Brexit camp, obviously.

If you work for a global company in a highly skilled job, with a high salary, they can probably get you a work visa anywhere, provided they are willing to handle the bureaucracy.

But this concerns only a tiny minority of people.

Simple point is, if you wanted to jump into a train and look for work in France, you could just do that before. Now you can’t.

That is the problem. Applying for a work Visa in an EU country now is like applying for a work Visa in China, or for a Thai applying for a work Visa in the UK.

You have 2 options. One, you or your parents are wealthy. The other one, you have specialised skills and a company which is employing you, or wanting to employ you, does the paperwork for you to use those skills in that country.

That's it.

If you don't fall into 1 of those categories you are not getting a Visa. There simply isn't a Visa that allows you to move to a country and look for work there like the American green card lottery.

That puts moving to another country out of reach of the grand majority of the population, and unless some new agreements come to fruition that will be the case for the foreseeable.

Filling a form and sending 2 photos and a copy of your passport just won't cut it and neither positivity nor negativity will change that.

shorely the inconvenience of options being less available to most of us now is entirely balanced, nay - justified, by the much greater per capita advantage over us granted to the elite and the feeling of being in the Elite Ranking Group?

Your idea of positive appears to be that of saying "it may turn out to not be that bad".

Doesn't sound positive to me.

Look, when people have been smashed in the face and have lost teeth and have a broken jaw, it's pretty hard for them to feel 'positive' about it. I admire your Stoicism, but Stoicism is all it is: making the best of a bum lot.

I said the slightest inkling of positivity...which is quite different

You can jump into a train and spend 3 months looking for work, if you really want to.  

Indeed..making the best of a bum lot instead of claiming everything’s now just impossible because of Brexit.  I agree wholeheartedly that Brexit is a bum deal for us all and yes...I’m keen to make the best of it now it had happened and just focus on what IS possible, instead of throwing my hands in the air and whining. Brexit is done, Brexit is shit and like so many, I wish it had never happened and so stoicism seems the only fitting approach...at least to me.

Let’s imagine someone takes advantage of the fairly easy travel for 90 days and then spends those 90 days looking for work.  They may indeed find it hard to convince potential employers to do the additional paperwork but this will surely depend on the sector.  If outside of those sectors where technical prowess or native English aren’t considered valuable, then one would need  some excellent powers of persuasion.

I am based in France and for what it’s worth am currently looking for a French and English speaking service engineer.  I don’t care whether the person is French of British...it’s the character and technical competence of the candidate that will get them the job.  We, like quite a few other French companies, will sort out the bureaucracy for the right candidate.  Yes...there are sectors where this won’t be the case (especially for more casual work) where it was before, but many employers in quite a few sectors want excellent people regardless of nationality and regardless of Brexit.

For what it's worth: +1

If they do that they’d be breaching the law. Certainly would be the case in the UK and in France, I suppose rules are similar elsewhere in Europe.

People are often unaware of the rules. The 90 day period you get is basically the equivalent of a visitor visa, just without the paperwork.

This is for visiting relatives, short business meeting, tourism.... not job-seeking.
On arrival you may be asked the purpose  of your visit and it isn’t recommended to lie to border officials...

So, personally relatively unaffected by the effects of Brexit? 

Sure thing, but most people in the UK don’t qualify for the kind of job that has a good chance of getting you a work visa in most Western European countries. 
And vice-versa. 

This is especially true for young people at the start of their career. 

How so, given that I am a British citizen living here under EU rules?   Of course I am affected, and given the fact that our business imports from the UK and sells into Europe your supposition is entirely wrong.  The rest of my family is based in the UK and most of my qualifications are not really transferrable to France.  My wife is French and so if, for example, I ever wanted/needed to be back in the UK for the long term, things would be complicated.   

Sure....we could go down the citizenship route, but this whole discussion is about how imposisble it will be now to get work visas etc for Brits wanting to work in Europe.  It's not as though a citizenship applicaiton for either me or my wife would be simpler....but if it turns out to be necessary I'll do it.

I am aware of the rules, but are you really suggesting someone, say, setting up a few interviews from the UK, then flying over to attend, should worry about that?  Or someone renting a holiday apartment then dropping a CV in or setting up a couple of interviews at  likely places?  For someone with that mindset, I'd say that it is not only the new regulations stopping them moving out to Europe

I know enough people who had their life fucked over by far more innocent mistakes than that when dealing with UK immigration. Other European immigration system may not be as bad but if they aren’t, it’s probably not by much.

This isn’t the 80s or the 90s anymore. Breaching immigration law is serious and once it’s on your record good luck getting anywhere. 

So basically your solution is breaking the law, and if you don’t it’s because you don’t have the right « mindset ».

What a joke.

Even if you assume people could cheat the rules, the reality still is that only certain jobs would give you access to a visa. 

The FT ran an article a few years back, they estimated that three quarter of EU residents in the UK would not have qualified for a work visa in the UK. It is reasonable to assume that the reverse is true given the broad similarities.

Make no mistake the changes are huge the consequences for individuals are significant. Even if you get a work visa, the conditions are far from what you get with FoM, and being able to stay once the visa  expires is all but guaranteed.

If the French process of applying for residency is anything like the Italian residency application, this statement of being personally unaffected is way wide of the mark.

Everything & anything has now changed, tax, health care, proof of being able to support yourself financially, driving, these are just some of the changes now occurring & most had to be resolved in a 6 week period until 1.1.21. I’ve personally jumped through so many hoops these last few weeks & quite a few more over the coming years im sure, as these agreements are evolving are a daily basis  

I personally didn’t want to respond to this thread, as like Peak DJ, I’m a firm believer in getting on with & not seeing the bad in the situation. But your mistaken believe that a Uk passport holder being resident aboard has seen little change is just so far from the reality of the situation.

I've observed literally hundreds of situations where people have flown out for a few interviews etc, to countries where work visas etc are required..  Almost nobody applies for a work visa or anything other than a visitor visa in order to do this, and you're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think they do.  Show me an example of someone who has been prosecuted for not having the appropriate visa, flying into a country to attend a few interviews etc.  

Specifically in France, even in the glory days of EU membership, anyone travelling from Britain for many kinds of work (engineering, sales visits etc) was supposed to fill out a posted worker declaration.  Almost nobody did...and hence almost everyone broke immigration regulations.  But it wasn't in anyone's interest to police it.  I suspect (and yes, I accept I may be wrong, and that you may be able to show me the evidence for that) that flying out for a few interviews to France this year or next, probably wouldn't land anyone in trouble either, in much the same way.

I don't understand this attitude. How can you begin to move on if you ignore the problems? The first step in finding a solution is properly analyzing the problem in the first place and this "move on", "too early to tell" nonsense is an ostrich approach to problem-solving.

In some cases (not yours I sense) I am sure it is being stated by people who haven't yet come to terms with the fact that they voted for something really stupid and destructive and don't like being confronted with that fact. Having said that I am not sure we have actually had many/any people who voted Brexit posting on this thread and that tells a story especially since they have been a consistent and vocal minority in the past.

Alan

It didn't take long for the rules of this thread to be broken. 

If I'm honest, so far, it has affected me not one jot. Neither positively, not negatively. Do I see it impacting me further down the line? I predict yes. Let's see eh?

Nobody is going to "prosecute you" for breaching the terms of your visit. 
That's not how it works.

The way it works is that immigration officials will want to be satisfied that you are a genuine visitor before granting entry. If they aren't and suspect you are in the country to look for work you'll be denied entry. That goes on a record and good luck getting a visa anywhere next time.

Several people I know were refused entry to the UK on such grounds, despite being 100% genuine visitors with all the papers to prove it. Only mere suspicion is enough, and most of the time there is no appeal process. I can't imagine it's much different in Europe.

Many smaller companies aren't big on compliance. But larger ones are. I certainly remember several Europeans colleagues facing a brick wall when they wanted to work remotely from their home country for a few weeks. HR says no because it doesn't comply with tax regulation etc etc.

And if you think being liberal with the truth with immigration officials or breaching rules in seemingly innocent way is consequence free, think again.

As an example, there are thousands EU citizens in the UK who lived here for decades, realising now they can't apply for citizenship because they didn't have comprehensive sickness insurance when they first entered the UK as students. A little known requirement that wasn't enforced in any way and not advertised anywhere.
The issue was raised by several MPs and associations, the response of the government was basically along the lines of "tough, you didn't comply with the rules, not our problem"

Good point and probably me doing it more than most. The best bits here are the many and varied stories which I think have been very revealing and depressing at the same time.

Alan

I'm not yet sure what the effects will be on me.  Pre-COVID I travelled quite a bit on business.  I have colleagues reporting to me in Germany and Lithuania, as well as US, and I would normally spend several weeks a year working in Germany, Lithuania and Norway, occasional meetings elsewhere in Europe, and make regular (normally a couple of weeks quarterly) trips to California, and occasionally other US sites (usually Boston area).

Until now I've not needed to consider a business visa for Europe but unless I can get something that is renewable, say, annually, this might be a real pain for me.  To be fair, I guess this only means I will have the same issue as when I go to the States, and immigration there has never seemed to be any more of a hassle when I say I'm there for business than if we're on holiday (but I work for a US company; I show them my business card and say I'm an attorney, which seems seems work like magic).  Let's see how it works out.  COVID has definitely given our government some completely fortuitous breathing space here; I have absolutely no confidence that they will use it wisely. 

Nevertheless, I will miss smugly using the EU Burgers only passport machines and genuinely feeling like a European citizen.  Having this withdrawn makes me very angry indeed.

I'm lucky in that my qualifications won't be affected.  Scientific qualifications (especially UK ones) have always been internationally accepted and my European legal qualification is from the EPO, which is actually a supra-EU organisation (don't tell the ERG there is such a thing), and unaffected by Brexit.  

I will have to think hard when we're next hiring in Europe though.  It probably makes more sense to base my people in the EU but that's also because that's where our R&D is.  Why that's where our R&D is though...

As others have said, what angers me most is the way my children's lives have been made more difficult.  It's not clear whether my daughter's veterinary qualifications will be recognised in the EU, or my son's teaching qualifications.  They have grown up in a Europe essentially without borders, with European friends (whose parents were able to work anywhere in the EU including here) and the assumption that they could live, work or holiday wherever they liked as a right.  Losing that is an obvious impoverishment to their ambitions and experience and an utterly pointless one at that.    

Honestly, I am impressed - I appear to have become the kind of Internet Influencer whose single line post can draw unwilling contributors to the thread.  Sadly, I don't have a Soundcloud to promote (note to self: create Soundcloud for the next time this happens)

That's what I was asking.  The rules right now seem like someone from the UK trying to set up in France would have a harder time of it than they would have before.

Rather like how it would be if I wanted/needed to move to France, now (as opposed to pre-Brexit)?

I believe you're the only one who's saying things are impossible: the rest of the people here are talking about how the changes have affected them, and - mostly - how much more difficult that's made life.

Rubbish. After years of bullshit we are finally living in the reality the government has 'negotiated', and you want us to keep stum .......ridiclulous!

For a lot of us Brexit makes us a little bit poorer, possibly makes us rethink long or short term plans and makes various things a bit more awkward. For others it potentially has a more drastic impact around employment viability or being able to live where they live now, or even the ability to live with the people they love. So, no everything isn’t impossible because of Brexit for most, but important things will be impossible for some.

Its interesting to see how this will all pan out on origin rules.I reckon there might be a rethink within the EU/UK just on the basis that alot of physical goods are imported and sold in the UK. The new rules in effect penalise both sides.And more goods are sold from Europe, so in a way it is just as much a real headache for them.

The one advantage to the change ( whicn nobody has highlighted) is that overnight the Chinese traders who were circumnavigating VAT ( usually via amazon)  and selling direct into the Uk have effectively vanished.This was always a source of discontent to businesses in the UK as effectively Chinese goods ( direct from China) were 20% less expensive as a starting point.HMRC reckon it cost them about £1 bn a year in lost VAT.

How both the EU and Uk will get round all this I have no idea, as under WTO rules you have to be careful about discimiating in favour/against other global markets.

I suspect you will get hubs opening up both in the Uk and Europe as the markets adjust.Far from ideal if you are a small business as its only larger companies that can afford to do this.On the other hand warehousing can be very enterprising.

Expect to see a growth in bonded warehouses ( includeing renting space)  in both EU and UK servicing both markets.

Lots of delays on orders coming from Europe (Audio equipment/electronics). Extra hoops to jump through eg being asked for EORI number from supplier before being told 48 hrs later it's not needed after all indicating confusion/chaos behind the scenes with suppliers. Advised that a purchase of a £6K piece of kit that ships from Europe may now be subject to additional £1K import tax.

Also just been informed that a certain brand of kit we use extensively will be subject to a £50 fee if out of warranty and £25 fee if in warranty to return for assessment/repair to main repair centre in EU. Previously this was free to us with the tab picked up by the supplier.

Give us a clue then I can give some dates longer than 90 days to my two lads - covid permitting.

Cheers,

E

I seem to be one of the few here that actually got a job in France BEFORE we joined the EU - and yes, it was straightforward, I went to the Chamonix Maire's office, and they sent me for an interview that afternoon, and I was working that evening. IIRC I got paid cash; I don't remember being troubled by tax, health insurance or anything else.

But that was nearly half a century ago; times have changed. There are more people chasing fewer jobs, the regulations are more tightly enforced and there are more ways of tracking us all. 

One of my friends has just written off €1m a week until things get sorted out, he's customer acquisition manager for Europe's largest haulier and stopped all UK deliveries.

The ironic thing is that the marketplace VAT reform was a EU initiative to level the playingfield as you describe it, so not really an effect of Brexit per se. The UK decided to implement the initive as planned, but the EU decided to postpone the initiative to July 1st 2021. That has added to the confusion for thousands of retailers who sell their products on marketplaces in the EU. But you can arguably blame the EU for that.

Could they not have sorted out residency last month?

Yes, I was expecting my remark might shut everyone up

???

E

Sorry, not read the thread through, just assumed you had some lads out working there who wanted to stop longer than 90 days, obviously got wrong end of the stick.

It’s a viciously competitive world amongst the really big hauliers. Unfortunately I suspect after a few weeks those with the really good it infrastructure will win a lot of business. 
 

I use a Mid sized European pallet network. They reckon in about a week it will have calmed down and cost me an extra £25 for processing customs declarations plus any COVID add extras. Mind you the value of a pallet starts at £15 k. So small beer in the cost of things . That would be to Germany/ Poland 

It would be different if the pallets value  was say £500. 
 

Better make sure the pallet is ISPM-15 standard! Pallets into and out of the EU have to be heat sterilised and less than half in circulation are, at the moment the authorities are turning a blind eye but how much longer is anyones guess.

That is a global standard anyway and always has been.It works into the Uk as well.

To anybody involved in goods movement it is no great shakes.

If you buy an off the shelf euro pallet ISPM is standard.

EU wine imports being hit by brexit HMRC issues... very dangerous territory for a tory government.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/18/a-multiple-pile-up-in-the-...

You felt the need to come on the thread and tell everyone it was 'too early' to discuss the current situation.

The deal was very last minute, leaving people with no time to read it let alone understand what had been negotiated before it went into effect. So many were left to muddle through, dealing with problems as they encountered them. Expecting folk not to discuss this hot topic till it's gone cold was ridiculous..... and demonstrates it is you the political chip on your shoulder.

I know all that. The problem is companies that regularly shipped stuff over to the UK and have a gigantic stack of pallets which now have to be sorted and kept in two stacks for the different markets or swapped out. The estimate is that one-third of trucks is now carrying illegal pallets which is why it's not being checked.

A good thread / OP (I haven't looked at it for a few days and a quick skim read of the bottom half indicates typical tangential squabbling). 

The OP had me realising that I hadn't directly experienced any change (I foresee some at least regarding small amounts of EU travel I occasionally do for work). 

I just 5 minutes ago received a call from FedEx who were due to deliver a small parcel to me before noon today, an x-ray calibration gizmo that (to all intents and purposes) I own, and which is annually shipped to Spain for physical calibration. Now FedEx are demanding an EORI number before they can "release" it. I've not had to do this before 2021 on any incoming shipments from the EU; the acronym is new to me and I have no idea what my EORI number is (it's a bit complicated regarding our company structure, I am somewhat of an outlier). I'll probably be able to dig one up but it is going to take a while, most probably, which knocks out a few of my work plans for this week. 

I don't know for sure if this is Brexit-related though. 

Just give them your VAT number and add 000 at the end.

Do Tory voters drink more EU wine than non-Tory voters? 

Possibly not, but it will certainly upset Tory voters and encourage them to change allegiance.

Thanks but I just checked that online and it's not valid  

You should be able to find it as you have a vat number and add a few digits. Go back to Fed Ex with your vat number as they should have access to your EORI number form that in their datatbase.

Well the colonies do produce some reasonable wines. (Mind you I have 2 months supply of French wine down the cellar).

Interesting, is that a UK thing? My VAT number is DE 254491580 and my EORI number DE 327634661063166 , any connection is beyond my cryptographic skills

thanks , I will try that. I am being a bit slow today, couldn’t get to sleep last night so I am in a zombie state 

No idea, just my person who runs my accounts team pointed this out.

Mind you we have had to have an EORI for years so maybe its just a reflection of that

Maybe  your German EORI number should match and there is a mistake.....it sort of makes sense that it matches your VAT number.

In the Atlas system 0000 on the end identifies the head office if there are other branches, they get 0001, 0002 etc so the customs knows who to communicate with while the accounting goes to the main office.

I doubt my number is a mistake, it's worked fine in the past!

 Expecting folk not to discuss this hot topic till it's gone cold was ridiculous..... and demonstrates it is you the political chip on your shoulder.

Well actually Mike, that’s not true at all. Though I’m always happy to be contradicted. Folk are getting very hot under the collar about my remark, which certainly wasn’t an expectation for folk not to discuss the OP. As for a political chip on my shoulder! Sorry.

I could alway be very agreeable with the swell of opinion if you prefer?

https://twitter.com/DanielLambert29/status/1350367078662987777

When Johnson said "F*ck business", it's the only promise he ever intended to keep.

Not sure if this was intended as a face value suggestion but it raises a point about a whole class of the brexit defending arguments I see online at the moment - how is this an improvement?

Even if a non-eu product is as good, and even if it can be obtained as cheaply (which lets face it, it can’t, because transport is a significant cost factor) doesn’t that just leave us with one less negative brexit outcome? It’s not like products from outside the EU were previously unavailable.

When do we get to see an actual, genuine positive?

Yes. Day after day we get this continual crap about the mystical benefits of Brexit, when it simply means a massively reduced choice, and a poorer, costlier standard of living. Plus bucketfuls of hatred for all erstwhile friends and partners. Plus our own society split in half.

Re your post: Only the very best English wines are remotely comparable with (mainland) European ones, and they're of course in very short supply and very expensive. As you say, all this other outside-EU stuff has always been equally available. Chile, California and South Africa have always been there.

History has often been divided up into 'Ages', e.g. the Age of Enlightenment, the Age of Revolution, the Age of Empire, the Age of Information. We are now, blatantly it seems, in the Age of Dishonesty (or should that be Self-Delusion?)

Edit: Yes, Disliker, truth hurts, just as lower standards appeal to some. I think it's the lowering of standards that bothers me most, when our once-great country was once able to achieve so much, do so much, make so much, invent so much. AND lead the way in the world with parliamentary democracy. All now smashed to pieces by our present extreme nationalist blockheads.

Edit 2: Is it possible for one of these Dislikers to tell me what they disagree with, or are they just nay-saying zombis who get a kind of sick thrill jabbing anything like a dislike button that sounds vaguely negative? I'm genuinely intrigued.

We don't actually hear much about the benefits anymore. It's always either "wait and see"/"you don't have a crystal ball" or "move on with your life"/"stop being so negative.

I sincerely hope that when the backlash comes, which will be fierce and possibly violent, it is aimed at those culpable.

I'd take it to be validation of the righteousness of your position. They don't like it but have nothing to come back with. They don't like it up 'em, to coin a phrase.

Of course, grim as it may be, justice shall have to be done, because without that civilisation will collapse.

It's just like a machine going, isn't it, that presser of the dislike button? I guess it's someone who has nothing else to do in life but go on UKC and sit there for hours and hours disliking every new post that comes up, whatever it's about.

This for me too.

Having to do a university degree for the job I've been doing 20 years if I want any chance of ever moving to Spain. So a few grand, a few years and a lot of uncertainty!

Never forgive, never forget, get out as soon as possible

Your profile says you’re 26???

Eustace “Environment”Secretary this morning on the radio

Explained the empty Peterhead Fish Market by a combination of Covid and January. Shameless scumbag

Ha! I'm 37 and haven't touched the profile in a looooong time!

I did wonder. “They’re starting them early in Huddersfield”!!

Earlier on the Today program the Scottish Fish ardent Brexit voter guy got really angry with Nick Robinson when he asked him whether he still thought Brexit was a good idea. The guy came up with the same evasive nonsense saying initially it was due to a drop in market demand due to Covid and then listed 5 other problems which were all caused by the UK not being in the single market anymore.

Alan

For me the most recent frustration has been getting charged £78 to pay customs on a parcel from France! A package of ski bindings from a well used online retailer. I suspect there not registered for VAT with HMRC but highly frustrating nonetheless.

Whereas you have got nothing else to do in life except whine about people disliking your posts. Grow up FFS. 

Hi, just an update for you. You were correct with your first guess, it is my company/division's VAT number with GB tacked on the front, and simply three zeroes at the end. I found someone in the company who knows about this stuff and he's informed that "From the 1st of Jan GB numbers won’t show up on the EU tools" hence it coming up as not valid on my online check. Not sure which tool I used, I just Googled "EORI check" and picked one at random, presumably the top one. 

Thanks again for your advice. 

I'd like to have heard that. I don't think any farmer, fisherman, ex pat or entertainer (take a bow, Roger Daltrey) should be interviewed about Brexit without first being asked how they voted in the referendum...

No rich kid here ya melon head ! 

I think you need to wind ya neck in an go take ya head for a shit

I saw that. He won't get fooled again

E

Very good!

I listened to that about Muscians this morning and even I thought it was pushing it a bit.How many American bands tour round Europe a year, must be loads.They seem to be able to do it quite effectively with few logistical issues.

Granted for small bands etc it might be more of an issue.

From what I read it’s basically really expensive abd woujd involve most of the time big production companies getting involved.

The big difference is that American band touring in Europe will very rarely have Europe as their primary target market. They’d most likely already be established in the large US market before considering touring Europe.

For many British bands this is different, their domestic market is Europe in the first place. So basically they are being cut off from their domestic market.

It’s pretty sad. I grew up in France under the influence of many British artists, big and small, who could come in freely and be treated just like home artists, and vice versa.

Now they are going to have to fill in tone if paperwork months in advance and pay all sorts of fees. That’s a big barrier for many artists except the bigger ones.

All of this because we are led by a bunch on Brexit fundamentalist who couldn’t fathom the idea of any provision on mobility whatsoever making its way in the deal. 

Except working 15 hours a day on the second draft of a 160,000 word book ... (Leaving me v little time each day for UKC, typically very late at night.)

I think you've caught one!

It is a bit of a non issue at the moment when all said and done .........

I agree it is sad.

Very much not a non-issue for small-scale UK artists whose tours would struggle to break even in any event. But it's something which could be renegotiated.

Petition about it: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/563294

(Yeah - I know - petitions ...)

Unfortunately I doubt the EU will negotiate as well even for the likes of UK top artists.

That's really nonsense, the EU has no interest whatsoever in making it difficult for artists. 

The blockage has always been on the UK side, because of ideological / political reasons, UK gov didn't want ANY mobility clause whatsoever in the deal. 

I'd like to say the motivation were simply that they wanted to avoid any possible interpretation that free movement might come back by the backdoor, and there may be a bit of that.

But if we look at it a bit objectively the only explanation that holds water is that this part of a the wider English cultural identity crisis unfolding before our eyes. They  want to reduce cultural exchange between the UK and the EU, simply because it doesn't fit with their narrow version of Englishness that defines itself mostly by anti-europeanism.

Taking advantage of a very similar deal that exists between the EU and the USA.

And a lot of those American bands tour (or toured) around Europe with equipment and crew supplied by companies based in the UK.  Set, backline, costumes etc., are unique to the show but for many of those acts it makes no sense to ship lighting and sound equipment from the USA to Europe (and lug an enormous transformer around to run it from a 230/400V supply) when the same equipment can be hired in Europe for the European leg of the tour. 

Clair Brothers (the big American PA hire company) have a branch in Switzerland.  Just about all of the rest of that business came into the UK, but when the industry eventually begins to recover from Covid I guess that's going to change pretty quickly if it's going to be the difference between dicking about with carnets detailing every bit of equipment on every single truck at one border in the middle of the night or doing it at dozens of them.

They already offered this! (As far as the work visas go anyway, not so much the carnets.)
They were turned down by the UK government.  It's ludicrous.  If the entire industry hadn't been effectively shut down globally for most of the last year we'd have been hearing a lot more about this.  In normal times it's worth a f*ck of a lot more to the UK economy than fishing.

And a degree of spite, I suspect.  Based on a perception that everyone involved in "the arts" is a liberal leftie social justice warrior statue-toppling snowflake.  As glimpsed in Dominic Cummings's charming reply when asked about government support for the Arts early in the pandemic that "the f*cking ballerinas can get to the back of the queue".

Bit disingenuous this.

Small, unknown US bands and artists don't tour Europe because small unknown US bands and artists can't afford to fly equipment and roadies 3000 miles.

Small, unknown UK bands used to be able to load up a van or tourbus and tour Europe quite easily.

E

I think one of the reasons Brexit is such a toxic thing is the waythat , from the start, it has sought to replace Goodwill with Badwill, just for the sake of Badwill.

It took me years and years, too late, to appreciate what we had in the EU as I didn't travel abroad at all until I was almost 30 and I grieve for what we have lost.   And the poison of knowing my wife if she was not already resident would not qualify to come here on her income where wealthy and unscrupulous people will be welcomed with open arms.  The poison that leaves me as the only one in my immediate family no longer has any EU rights.

Also the fact that we have had an unprecedented period of peace in Western Europe since 1945.

That is why all Brexiteers can burn in hell

I'm still waiting for the Black Keys...👍

One niche area where ready access to Europe is important is for Blues bands. Germany and Holland are really important sources of money for these as they are often more popular than 'pub bands' but the next size up venues which they can fill are becoming increasingly rare in the UK. 

The pissing on Goodwill by the Tories and Brexitwats is one of the biggest tragedies of all of this, but politically it's not an entirely pointless exercise. It opens multiple new culture war fronts, both with the EU and against the internal enemy of Remainers, giving Johnson's witless voters something to rage about so they don't notice the Tories preparing the barrel to bend them over. It also makes any future rejoin movement harder to assemble because the EU will be less inclined to offer us favourable terms of reentry.

Tell that one to this guy https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jan/20/brexiter-roger-daltrey-critic...

I'm on the side of the musicians BTW, but to this guy... f*ck him

Whilst I agree with your general point, there is a long and storied history of small N American bands touring on a shoestring, sleeping on floors, setting up for themselves, borrowing amps etc. 

All of that was at a time when nobody cared much if you had a visa as long as you were white. World has changed.

I’m surprised you got any likes for that extraordinary post! But anyway, this thread is becoming something for UCK to be proud of. Very singular.

Brexit is singularly bad and an assault on our democracy and rights. I spent five years trying to respectfully question motives and change minds while (mostly) keeping my rising anger in check. I take no pleasure in watching the chickens coming home to roost now, but I can't be bothered pandering to idiocy any longer. A mess of this magnitude was easily foreseeable if Johnson got his wandering hands anywhere near power and now we all have to suffer for it.

What's so extraordinary about it? He's pretty well spot on.....

I had noticed one benefit whilst buying fish from the local market fishmongers on Saturday. There were for a change plenty of really good fish for sale in immaculate condition.................normally the fish shall we say look as though they were from the bottom of the barrel unless you get there really early..

There were allsorts from Cornwall that I had never seen before.

Its the only true fishmongers for miles around other than the supermarkets.

Did make me smile when I clicked as to why.....at least somebody has managed to sell their catch.

Very curious as to how your experiences, and those of people you know, seem to contrast so sharply with those of pretty much everyone else. And almost invariably positive.

You must be one of the luckiest people alive.

Not really I just go round with my eyes open. If you continually say something is bad, then all you see is something that is bad.

Being down beat is not good for you.You should try being a bit more upbeat.

I have other horrendous issues on Brexit but they are more shall we regulatory and to be honest are quite boring to most people( and induce a glazed look)

You can't polish a turd by being upbeat.

I've had a similar sort of experience, but not sure it will be positive in the long term. Basically due to covid a local trawler started selling their catch pretty much straight off the boat, it's only a small boat and at the moment they are selling a significant proportion of their catch this way. Great for us at the moment, but speaking to them, they are very worried going forward especially in the summer with the mackerel sales. We'll see but it looks like they might have been able to adapt to covid, but Brexit means it is not sustainable.

I could list one other positive thing as well. Equally I could make an even longer list of negative things.Probably far longer that most peoples.

Life becomes too boring on these posts if everybody just takes the same view.

Richard Morrison in the Times yesterday thought it may be just down to misunderstandings in the industry (and with Boris, claiming that musicians could still travel freely) with the difference between visa and work permit.  Also the misunderstanding to the extent the EU could even offer a Europe wide deal on work permits, on something that is now down to individual countries. Those countries which have apparently been resentful of successful British promoters/acts (Spain,Italy) are now offering very restrictive work permits compared to countries that have always been more welcoming (France/Germany) .     

He agrees that the British government are ideologically hampered in negotiating frictionless work permits.

The simple fact is that given that there is no arrangement in place, British artists in the EU and EU artists in the U.K. will treated under the same rules at others third country nationals, and these rules are far less favourable, and in many case quite burdensome.

I don’t think there is anything preventing the EU from finding a deal on work permits for British artists and vice versa. As far as I know that’s exactly what they had put on the table.

As far the idea that Spain or Italy would  be « resentful » of successful British artists is the weirdest thing I’ve heard on this thread.

Far better to portray a misleadingly positive view then, apparently. If all goes well people might start to believe Brexit isn't a catastrophe for all but a few privileged string-pullers and somehow belief alone will make it so.

I wouldn't know, I don't pretend to be an expert in all things - I'm just quoting from an article by a Times music journalist.  

To be fair, I doubt Brexit will turn out to be a complete disaster for many people.  It'll just be a bit shittier than it could otherwise have been.

No - it's going to be like the UK in the 60s and 70s when we started to realize that those b*stards in Europe we're starting to pull away from us. We'll have higher unemployment, lower welfare and crumbling infrastructure, and we'll see it every time we go on holiday (which will become increasingly rare.)

A journalist with a history of referring to artists a “whingeing remoaners”

Didn't appear to be his style from the article - when has he refererred to artists as whingeing remoaners?

Well we have several leave voters contributing and as far as I can see, precisely nothing good highlighted. Perhaps there's a reason for the downbeat vibe.

edit: sorry, one. Neil's fishmonger has prettier fish

jk

I am not convinced that we have any leave voters contributing yet. 

Current positives for Brexit stand at:

- Better fish currently in markets near fishing ports (short term I suspect)
- Improved chances for native English speakers with EU passports (so only a benefit for those who can take advantage of being EU citizens as well).

Alan

I've been noticing lots of signs like this on various EU based gear companies and webshops. I don't know if its a positive or not really, presumably potentially it is for British shops (or at least might outweigh their loss of sales to the EU) but I guess not for consumers in terms of price and choice.

This is devastating for several members of our household!

The only other one I have noticed and sombody else upthread also commented on( in reference to the South of England where the poster said it was noticeable) . Its something you notice on industrial estates and if you do alot of business driving. There were a fair number of Eastern European white vans and small lorries working over here doing deliveries( usually busines sto business) and really low cost movement into Europe.Often staying here for two weeks at a time and living in the vnas.Completely vanished.Its like a whole sector has gone up in a puff of smoke.

Thats about it from my side.

Nothing else.

"Nissan boss says Brexit trade deal has given them a 'competitive advantage in UK and outside' and announces firm will shift production of its electric car batteries from Japan to Sunderland"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9175157/Nissan-boss-says-Brexit-tr...

Interesting. For those who don't want to load that horrible page to their browsers, the same story is here - https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jan/22/brexit-has-given-competiti...

It seems that Nissan now has to source batteries locally to qualify for easy export of its cars into the EU. Seems like it must have been a choice between doing that and moving its plant to an EU country. Makes me wonder what it sees as being the advantage of staying in the UK rather than moving; is it the cost of upheaval? government bungs? expectation of more 'flexible' (to use a classic modern euphemism) working conditions or labour market costs?

Not really sure how that works, since Japan has a trade deal with the EU, which we don't, and exporting from the UK to  countries outside the EU isn't any different to how it was when we were in the EU.

I do agree with that but it's also important to let people get stuff off their chest.... and as I said the deal was very last minute with much of the detail impacting people unknown before we left the transition period, so it is the right time to be discussing this.

I'm all for looking for positives, and the Nissan story may offer some hope................but it is difficult to move on and forward with the current government stocking culture war crap and picking pointless fights with the EU.

In all honesty its more of a relief that they are maintaining the status quo. To me its a neither one thing nor the other. You need alot more like that to help and stengthen your position.So iIwould not count the chickens at the moment.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-japan-agree-historic-free-trade-a...

Just replying to Alan, intimating all the chickens were dead.

But David, you just posted the Japan Trade Deal link which replicated (and by some accounts didn't quite match) a deal we already had. This only supports the suggestion made by many on this thread that, if this is the best you have on offer, then the pickings must be really thin.

'Same as before' does not count as an improvement.

Alan

Didn't Theresa May make some secret deal with Nissan in the early days to keep them in the UK?

I don't know the shop - although I see they have branches in London and Brum. What sort of things do they sell?

The Paris branches seem to sell an ecletic mix of household stuff , clothes & some food, see https://www.hema.com/fr-fr if you're interested. Memories of some nice biscuits ...

I didn't say it was.  Correcting Ridge, who said we don't have a trade deal with Japan.

my wife is very unhappy at the moment as it will be much more expensive with more possible vustoms pitfalls to send presents to and from Germany so she's feeling as if she's going to be even more distanced from her family.  She was really upset to find parcels taped up with Home Office Border Force "crime scene style" tape where stuff had been opened up this Christmas. 

Life is hard enough without making family contact more difficult

Fuck 'em (you know who I mean)

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissa...

Even the 'good news' Brexit stories are mired in greasing of palms. So let's cut the ptence that this deal is a great example of what riches can ensue from cutting loose from Europe.

Next example please!

Nothing new in that globally. the amount of taxpayers money worldwide that goes into the car industry is unreal.

We've just been informed that UPS has suspended all international shipping as a result of border delays.

We shipped a monitor to France on 5th Jan by DPD. Today they have returned it, as according to the driver they have so many parcels backlogged in their warehouses that they're just sending them back rather than trying to deliver them!

I agree. But when it is heralded like this -  'The UK has today secured a free trade agreement with Japan, which is the UK’s first major trade deal as an independent trading nation' (by Truss & the Dept for International Trade) - which implies a 'Leave' dividend, it is deceitful, cynical and self-serving...Oh, hang on! I've just described Brexit...

If the thing is indeed bad, it’s not wrong to see it as it is.

I’ve been going around with my open eyes too, and I’ve looked and looked, and I’ve asked and asked, I struggled to find anything positive about Brexshit.

Maybe you can enlighten us.

Covid or Brexit related?

Yep, that was my point.

According to UPS and DPD, it's mainly due to Brexit.

According to DHL it's purely Brexit.

government bungs (which as it happens continued throughout EU membership, and are not restricted to the UK).

The competitive advantage is that their products are now comparatively cheaper for the consumer given the weakening of the pound as a result of brexit..........

It may eventually see them return manufacture of the micra from france; there is capacity at sunderland since the demise of infiniti, although it is more likely that the leaf and micra will morph into the same model. 

I live near a GPs surgery and there are queues at the end of the working day as people wait to use up jabs of people who couldn't make their appointment. 8% of the population in England have now had their first jab.

Whilst not perfect this is a much better problem than being part of the large EU co-ordinated jab scheme which is operating somewhere between hopeless and barely working. So hopeless in fact that even Trump's USA is ahead.

I was reading that's parts of the North East are more deprived than anything that is considered the 'old' East Germany...sorry don't have the link.

I thought it was quite intriguing....

Firstly, it isn't a competition, secondly, this is out-of-date news. The system is getting up and running in most EU countries and they are vaccinating at roughly the same rate as here but they certainly did take a while to get their ducks in a row. Thirdly, it is optional whether a country wanted to be part of it and, as there was never a chance that the UK in the EU would have opted to be involved, it is hardly a Brexit bonus although that hasn't stopped some apologists including it on their empty lists.

Alan

My apologies for looking on the bright side, I forget this is a thread for moaning.

Firstly, no-one said its a competition, merely a comparison of how being to operate independently rather than intertwined with a massive international bureaucracy can bring advantages over agile behaviour. (But really, how much do you have to muck it up if Trump's team can do a better job?)

Secondly its not out of date. The EU has vaccinated 1.6% of its population, unless your including Germany, who decided to break ranks and purchase vaccines on the side.  In other words the UK has 5x the rate of vaccination of the EU. It will be old news when the 6.4% gap is maintained, e.g. EU at 10%, UK at 16.4%.

Thirdly, Quite right the UK would have never have wanted to be involved in that administrative and political mess, its almost as if being independent of a massive international bureaucracy can bring advantages.

It has to be said though, they (EU) haven't killed any where near as many people, unlike our incompetent shower of ...