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Formula 1

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 Sean Kelly 15 Nov 2020

F1 World champion is....Lewis Hamilton. One of the greatest British sportmen of all time. He came from 6th on a awful track surface and watched everyone else it seems just spin all over it. Awesome skill and talent. Other attempt to challenge his superiority over the years, but he just seems to effortlessly step up a gear. What a driver!!!

Post edited at 12:26
3
 Jonny 15 Nov 2020
6
 Sean Kelly 15 Nov 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

With it being such a good race there are going to be a number of drivers with a lot of regrets, thinking what could have been.

Max Verstappen, Alexander Albon, Sergio Perez and Lance Stroll all held the race lead at various points.

Perez was second, Verstappen came sixth, Albon seventh and Stroll ninth!

Hamilton has just proved why he is World Champion and also the seven-times world champion! True class. Uncatchable!!!

 Babika 15 Nov 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

A great talent and one who consistently thanks and applauds the support team and staff behind him.  Well deserved victory

In reply to Sean Kelly:

waiting for Brexiteers to cack-handedly appropriate this and weave it into some sort of anti-EU narrative 😃

26
In reply to Blue Straggler:

That's going to be quite a challenge, what with him driving a Mercedes.

 Sean Kelly 15 Nov 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

I must post this link. A brilliant profile on Hamilton's career from carting to the great sportsman he is today. Very insightful.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/extra/c1nx5lutpg/The-real-Lewis-Hamilton-story

 Jonny 15 Nov 2020
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

> That's going to be quite a challenge, what with him driving a Mercedes.

Dunno. It's set to be his second lowest winning points total ever—assuming he wins the same proportion of points in the final three races as he has so far—in the very year we're leaving. The lowest was in 2017, which was exactly when the EU tried to trick us into accepting terrible deals.

Good luck denying the link.

And Mercedes is based in Northamptonshire.

11
 John2 15 Nov 2020
In reply to Jonny:

Might that possibly have something to do with the fact that there will be less races this year than in a normal year?

1
 john arran 15 Nov 2020
In reply to Jonny:

Good luck with trying to convince people that the EU was ever trying to trick the UK government. It might suit your narrative to see it that way but there really is no evidence for it whatsoever. Pure victim mentality designed to unify people against a perceived oppressor, even if the oppression is entirely fabricated in order to elicit precisely the response you're showing.

14
 Babika 15 Nov 2020
In reply to john arran:

Eh? Whats that got to do with this thread?

F1 fans only please - politicos move along, nothing to see here  ..

1
 elliot.baker 15 Nov 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

This is really interesting, thanks.

One thing I've always wondered is - how do all these lower F2 F3 GP2 etc. Formula renault etc. exist (or are funded)? Because I think 95%+ people will never have heard of them.

Most people probably don't even watch F1 and that's worth a fortune.

I've heard of the lower races but never seen one, I wouldn't even know where to look. Same for Le Man and Rally and probably a 100 other motor sports I've never seen.

 jimtitt 15 Nov 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

GP2 is now F2 and it and F3 are owned and promoted by Liberty Media who own F1 specifically as feeder series into F1. There's some finance shuffling from the circuit revenue! The rest is sponsorship, they are vastly cheaper to race as they are one-make series (the cars also come via Liberty Media), probably 20million would do for  a year.

In reply to Sean Kelly:

> F1 World champion is....Lewis Hamilton. One of the greatest British sportmen of all time. He came from 6th on a awful track surface and watched everyone else it seems just spin all over it. Awesome skill and talent. Other attempt to challenge his superiority over the years, but he just seems to effortlessly step up a gear. What a driver!!!


I particularly remember that when he moved to Mercedes he was coming in for a lot of stick for making a move 'for the money' and that he'd regret leaving a winning team and his career would disappear up a blind alley.

I wonder what those people are saying now? He's matched and slightly exceeded Schumacher who was included in the Woods, Federer camp of top sports figures.

 Jonny 15 Nov 2020
In reply to John2 and john arran:

> Might that possibly have something to do with the fact that there will be less races this year than in a normal year?

> It might suit your narrative to see it that way but there really is no evidence for it whatsoever.

Two of the loudest 'whooshes' I've heard this year.

After Lewis in his Mercedes, that is.

1
In reply to Jonny:

Definitely the best British racing driver of all time and possibly the greatest wet weather driver of all time. 

3
In reply to Wanderer100:

The most successful (in terms of championships and race wins) might be the best description but even that is skewed because we now have more races/year than in the 50's, 60's, 70's and it's a lot safer so drivers tend to have longer careers which means more championships if you're the best of your era.

As usual it's pretty pointless to make serious comparisons across different eras - but as a fun activity "who is the GOAT?" is of course well worthwhile 😁

1
 jimtitt 15 Nov 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

To be pedantic only one F1 driver died ib a race in Schumachers career and only one during Hamiltons.

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In reply to jimtitt:

> To be pedantic only one F1 driver died ib a race in Schumachers career and only one during Hamiltons.

... sorry for the correction but two in the Schumacher era... Senna and the often forgotten Roland Ratzenberger during the same race weekend... Imola 1994... 

In reply to Richard Wheeldon:

Ratzenberger died during qualifying. Does that count as “during a race”? 

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 jimtitt 15 Nov 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Exactly.

10
In reply to Blue Straggler:

> Ratzenberger died during qualifying. Does that count as “during a race”? 

I'm not sure the motor racing history books would make that distinction but... whatever...

... in reply to earlier posts on this thread... the GOAT tag will always be debatable as you can't, as Micheal Hood stated, compare the different eras over the 70 years of the F1 championship...

... what isn't debateable is, considering his background and the appalling racial abuse he, and his father, endured as they toured the Karting tracks of middle England when he was a kid is that, in a sporting context, winning a seventh world championship is an astonishing achievement and, lest folk forget, were it not for an engine failure in Singapore in 2016... this would be his eighth world championship...

In reply to Richard Wheeldon:

> I'm not sure the motor racing history books would make that distinction but... whatever...

My question was asked in earnest. There is no need to be so condescending. I am not an expert on motor racing like you. 

10
In reply to Blue Straggler:

> My question was asked in earnest. There is no need to be so condescending. I am not an expert on motor racing like you. 

... apologies... no offence intended... 

 Myfyr Tomos 15 Nov 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Slightly off-topic, but if you're looking for "awesome skill and talent", have a look at this. The word "balls" could also be included.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFJSVtsckyI&

In reply to Richard Wheeldon:

> ... apologies... no offence intended... 

Ah I maybe over-interpreted your use of “whatever” ! Ok, truce. I am enjoying my dislikes (and Jim’s) so that’s nice for us 😃

Post edited at 20:43
2
 Jonny 15 Nov 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

> Ok, truce. I am enjoying my dislikes

This thread has brought enjoyment in general.

I almost lost my footing on a ridge this afternoon when the fact that my joke above was promptly followed by John's "Pure victim mentality designed to unify people against a perceived oppressor" crossed my mind and the chuckling overcame me.

Thanks for that John—it improved an already beautiful ridge.

1
In reply to Sean Kelly:

I know little about motor racing, not something I've ever followed closely, but this is a big wow, because he's clearly a genius at it. It obviously requires an incredibly high level of road intelligence, lightning reflexes and difficult judgements. And strategic decisions, almost like a high-speed game of chess. As someone who was born in Knebworth, I'm very happy to see that his family comes from Stevenage - surely Stevenage's biggest 'claim to fame' yet? I believe his parents now live in Old Knebworth (not 100% sure).

 Tom V 15 Nov 2020
In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

Yes indeed.

Not detracting from Hamilton's ability or the sport in general, but if  he offered me a passenger ride in a two seater F1 car around an established circuit I'd probably trust him and say "OK, go for it".

In a WRC car with Ogier or Loeb at the wheel I'd be saying " No need to impress me, mate, 6/10ths will do nicely"

Post edited at 21:29
 Trevers 15 Nov 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Hamilton's drive today demonstrates that he is the greatest of his generation and one of the greatest of all time. Unlike most weekends, the Mercedes wasn't dominant for the entire race, and the conditions were difficult and changing. Hamilton showed incredible skill, racecraft and tactical nous to win by 30 seconds over the rest of the field while lapping his teammate in the same car and strategy.

I do like Hamilton but I was rooting for a new race winner today, Stroll, Perez or perhaps Albon. But his performance today was on another level.

1
 kipper12 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

What’s now forgotten is pre the arrival of Lewis, Mercedes couldn’t buy a win.  A lot of credit to the early success of Lewis and Mercedes should go to Schumacher and his engineers as they laid the foundations for what followed.

 Babika 16 Nov 2020
In reply to kipper12:

I remember hearing an interview with Toto Wolff a few years ago and he was asked "would you rather have the best engineers or the best driver?"

His reply, in a flash, was "best engineers".

How good to have both though!

In reply to Babika:

Best engineers (because of bigger budget) means you have (greater likelihood of having) a winning car.

Best driver means that your winning car's potential has a greater likelihood of being fully exploited.

This has been well demonstrated over the last few seasons especially with Hamilton's win yesterday and Vettel's inability to do similarly with the Ferrari in 2018.

 Clint86 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

He just needs to take the lead now and start driving electric cars. Formula one is becoming stuck in the past. 

4
 Babika 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

Sadly "best budget" is also a major factor in F1 as it is in many sports at the top.

My son is an engineer with one of the other teams and their resources - staff and everything else - is utterly dwarfed by Merc. The 2021 changes will level it fractionally, but I can't see it making a vast difference. 

In reply to Michael Hood:

> Best engineers (because of bigger budget) means you have (greater likelihood of having) a winning car.

> Best driver means that your winning car's potential has a greater likelihood of being fully exploited.

> This has been well demonstrated over the last few seasons especially with Hamilton's win yesterday and Vettel's inability to do similarly with the Ferrari in 2018.

I don't think the value of a great driver should be underestimated. My understanding is that there are great drivers who have the ability to make a car perform in ways that others can only dream of but that is all they bring to the table. Then there are others that can also accurately relay to the engineers (in ways that are meaningful to them) what is needed to make the car go faster. I gather Hamilton is very good at this

1
 kipper12 16 Nov 2020
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

I’m thinking back to the 2001 season (I think). The Ferrari that year was in a class of its own, when driven by Schumi.  It was designed and built to be driven by someone with his style.  His teammate (barrichello ?) couldn’t drive the thing.  Something like the euro fighter which is aerodynamically unstable and kept in the air with the aid of computers plus pilot. 

 John2 16 Nov 2020
In reply to kipper12:

That's just how it is with Verstappen and his team mates.

 Sean Kelly 16 Nov 2020
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

> I don't think the value of a great driver should be underestimated. My understanding is that there are great drivers who have the ability to make a car perform in ways that others can only dream of but that is all they bring to the table. Then there are others that can also accurately relay to the engineers (in ways that are meaningful to them) what is needed to make the car go faster. I gather Hamilton is very good at this

Now imagine if all the drivers all had to drive the same car....? A truly level playing field, but I still sense that Hamilton would walk it  not literally though!

1
 mark s 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

There is no question he is one of the best. Do I like him? Not really.

Now jenson, he is my fav brit f1 driver of all time. My Mrs says I have a man crush on him. 

2
 Jonny 16 Nov 2020
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

> Then there are others that can also accurately relay to the engineers (in ways that are meaningful to them) what is needed to make the car go faster. I gather Hamilton is very good at this

This is a great point. The positive feedback gets going and you have a winning combination.

It implies that some of the engineer component in the graph above is actually made possible by the driver, and not just any driver would necessarily do.

 John2 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

The thing about Hamilton is he doesn't make mistakes. Vettel does, and so does Verstappen to a lesser extent.

1
 fred99 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Wanderer100:

> Definitely the best British racing driver of all time and possibly the greatest wet weather driver of all time. 

Stirling Moss ?

 Si dH 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

A few random thoughts.

I have always supported a team (mostly McLaren) in F1 more than I have a driver, at least since Senna (my hero as an 8yo) died. And I have generally found myself rooting for the closest challengers to the leading driver in a given year rather than the leading driver themselves, especially when one team is dominant. So with the definite exception of his first two years, I haven't really ever been a supporter of Hamilton. These days I'm always more excited about a race if Bottas out-qualifies him - but that is basically an acknowledgement of just how good he is, just like it was with Schumacher when the same was true in the early 2000s. I agree with others who say that he just never seems to make mistakes like others do, at least for the last 3 years.

Trying to judge the GOAT is impossible. Like other sports F1 has become more physically demanding than in earlier decades*, and all the drivers at the top now are supremely fit - this simply wasn't the case in the 80s or early 90s and you could possibly argue that Schumacher himself had a big part in changing that.  However at the same time F1 is massively safer now than it was in the 60s, 70s, 80s or early 90s. In the early years your cornering speed would have been determined by how much you were willing to risk your life as well as my your technical skill or reaction times. That simply isn't the case now to any significant degree (there are parallels with climbing here.) So the skillset you need now is very different to what it was then. Even with several years practice in the cars, I'm fairly sure that a reincarnated Fangio would thrash Hamilton in 50s equipment and Hamilton would thrash Fangio in modern equipment.

He has certainly earned the right to be thought of in the very same top group as the Fangios and Schumachers, even if it will never be possible to define a single best.

Very valid comment by someone on his feedback on the car during a race weekend. This also must help him get his car closer to the perfect setup in time for qualifying and the race. People used to say the same about Schumacher and more recently about Alonso.

*Although I think some drivers argue it is physically easier now than in the 2000s, including Hamilton, because the tyres stop them racing hard throughout a grand Prix.

1
 d508934 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Jonny:

Interesting that the link makes no mention of his expulsion from  school for violent assault. I genuinely don’t think many people know about that. 
 

and no, I don’t have a link to hand. Speaking as someone who went to school with him (few years older). 

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In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Yes I'd forgotten that of course that with the right feedback, great drivers add to the engineering component of the overall package as well as the driving component.

 graeme jackson 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Nice to see Vettel driving well and getting on the podium, It was also quite touching to see him congratulating Lewis on his championship just after they'd parked up. 

In reply to mark s:

> There is no question he is one of the best. Do I like him? Not really.

> Now jenson, he is my fav brit f1 driver of all time. My Mrs says I have a man crush on him. 

I'm intrigued. What's there not to like?

 Graeme G 16 Nov 2020
In reply to d508934:

> Interesting that the link makes no mention of his expulsion from  school for violent assault. I genuinely don’t think many people know about that. 

Do you mean the one where he was wrongly identified and received an apology from the LA?

 d508934 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

It’s interesting, I’d never googled it until this thread, no cause too really not knowing the guy or having any interest in motor sport. Safe to say the ‘wrong guy’ argument is hard to reconcile from being at the school at the time. They were all caught red handed. Teachers threatened strike if the governors allowed them back, such was the severity of the beating one kid received. 

Coincidentally I heard recently from others at the school that witnesses were pressured by Hamilton’s dad to retract statements. Which I guess you could understand if he didn’t do it, but doesn’t chime with the mistaken identity argument. 


 

3
 wintertree 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Clint86:

> He just needs to take the lead now and start driving electric cars. Formula one is becoming stuck in the past. 

I doubt the fuel used by the race car engines is even 0.01% of the energy used by Formula 1...

 Graeme G 16 Nov 2020
In reply to d508934:

Don’t mistake my intention, I don’t like him. Mostly due to the whole ‘let’s all support him cause he’s British but who cares if he’d rather live somewhere where he doesn’t have to pay taxes back into the country he supposedly represents’. I also have little interest in F1.

But if the record shows his innocence then there’s not much to argue. Everything else is just gossip.

1
 d508934 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

The telling thing for me is that I couldn’t find (admittedly with quick search only) any confirmation from the lad who was beaten. Why wouldn’t he confirm a case of mistaken identity? I suppose there are reasons (traumatised, wanting to move on etc). But it chimes with the local rumours that he was paid to sign a legal document confirming he’d never speak of it again. 

yes, rumours/possible gossip only. Clearly not something that could ever be confirmed by its very nature. 

 Yanis Nayu 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

I liked him initially but I’ve decided I think he’s a bit of a nob. Incredibly talented driver though. 

2
 GrahamD 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

You can't blame him for not wanting to live in Stevenage. 

1
 Graeme G 16 Nov 2020
In reply to GrahamD:

True

 Clint86 16 Nov 2020
In reply to wintertree:

It depends on whether you see a need to come off fossil fuels. If so, it would set a real precedent. 

 Tyler 16 Nov 2020
In reply to d508934:

> Interesting that the link makes no mention of his expulsion from  school for violent assault. I genuinely don’t think many people know about that. 

> and no, I don’t have a link to hand.

Fortunately they are not hard to come by:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/f1-ace-hamilton-wrongly-expelled-from-school-for-breaking-pupils-fingers-6591001.html

> Speaking as someone who went to school with him (few years older). 

You'd obviously left by the time he was reinstated with an apology.

 wintertree 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Clint86:

> It depends on whether you see a need to come off fossil fuels. If so, it would set a real precedent. 

I don't think so.  

The precedent is set already by the rapid growth in the consumer EV segment which is set to explode over the next year, and in the various laws banning the sale of ICE vehicles in the not-so-distant future.  Some of the fastest road cars are now EVs, and EVs are nudging down to lower and lower price points.

Formula 1 switching to EVs would - as things stand with battery tech - hobble the racing massively so sending a negative precedent - Formula E races being 1/3rd of the distance of Formula 1 as things stand.  Electrify it and broadcast to the world that batteries lack both the specific energy and specific power compared to petrol when pushed to the limits.

The argument that the F1 giants piling in would advance battery or motor technology seems pretty weak as well, when one looks at the existing global investment in battery tech and the diminishing returns in motor tech.

The precedent it could set is by looking at the total energy the sport consumes in the name of consumer entertainment and having a long, hard look at that.   Christ alone knows how much CO2 is emitted just to power the supercomputers used for the design modelling - probably more than transporting the entire circus around the world each year.

Battery technology is just nowhere near ready for the specific power and specific energy requirements of Formula 1.  The greenwashing has started with a move to something like 10% bio-fuel for the cars this year, but I doubt battery technology will be ready for F1 for another decade.

Perhaps they can convert the cars to hydrogen ICE...

 GrahamD 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Tyler:

I think I'd have struggled to remember kids one year below me, let alone several years.

In reply to Clint86:

> He just needs to take the lead now and start driving electric cars. Formula one is becoming stuck in the past. 

If he wants to practice the equality he preaches perhaps moving out of Monaco will help too. 

2
 Clint86 16 Nov 2020
In reply to wintertree:

You can argue against all sorts of changes the scientists say we need to make. But sooner or later we are going to have to lighten our footprint and quickly, or the gradual changes we are seeing will continue. Of course I'm dreaming as we don't manage change very well. Lewis Hamilton will need to prove for the 94th time he is the quickest   :  )

 wintertree 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Clint86:

I’m not arguing against change.  I’m arguing that F1 is not an appropriate agent for that change, and may even be a counter productive agent for that change.

I say that as a very happy owner/driver of a BEV who is all for the move away from fossil fuels.

 Clint86 16 Nov 2020
In reply to wintertree:

In my opinion you're being to cerebral about it. We've just got to change our ways across the board as we have done with the Covid problem.....and of course, we really need to be mostly cycling and walking to pull it off.

Post edited at 19:41
 wintertree 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Clint86:

If you wanted to send a message with Formula 1 about the environment, you'd drop the sport.  Phenomenal energy cost for some entertainment.  Then again the same could be said about Hollywood and computer games.

Switching the vehicles to EVs would do nothing about the energy usage of the sport and would be an awful negative marketing point for BEVs.

 Clint86 16 Nov 2020
In reply to wintertree:

..........deep down I really want to see whether he can win for the 95th time.

 Tom V 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Clint86:

> .and of course, we really need to be mostly cycling and walking to pull it off.

You need to tell that to people who live fifty miles from the nearest crag.

 graeme jackson 16 Nov 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

> Don’t mistake my intention, I don’t like him. Mostly due to the whole ‘let’s all support him cause he’s British but who cares if he’d rather live somewhere where he doesn’t have to pay taxes back into the country he supposedly represents’. I also have little interest in F1.

according to the bbc he pays his taxes here..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54965544

On Hamilton's tax status, Richards wrote that Hamilton "is subject to withholding tax at source [being taxed at source] in nine countries around the world and files tax returns in four of the nine countries" and added that HM Revenue and Customs' 2019 figures put him "within the top 5,000 highest UK income tax payers".

 Graeme G 16 Nov 2020
In reply to graeme jackson:

> according to the bbc he pays his taxes here..

> On Hamilton's tax status, Richards wrote that Hamilton "is subject to withholding tax at source [being taxed at source] in nine countries around the world and files tax returns in four of the nine countries" and added that HM Revenue and Customs' 2019 figures put him "within the top 5,000 highest UK income tax payers".

Interesting take. Thanks for sharing.

In reply to graeme jackson:

> according to the bbc he pays his taxes here..
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54965544
> On Hamilton's tax status, Richards wrote that Hamilton "is subject to withholding tax at source [being taxed at source] in nine countries around the world and files tax returns in four of the nine countries" and added that HM Revenue and Customs' 2019 figures put him "within the top 5,000 highest UK income tax payers".

It appears from that article that he pays some of his tax here and then selectively chooses where to pay the rest.

1
 overdrawnboy 16 Nov 2020
In reply to John2:

> Might that possibly have something to do with the fact that there will be less races this year than in a normal year?

This made me wonder if they would have run out of drivers in the 50s, 60s, 70s if there had been as many GPs as there are now.I suppose there would have been a continuous supply of new blood to fill seats.

Modern F1 is the equivalent of sport climbing against the dangerous traditional stuff of years gone by, its physically astonishing but slightly sanitised. Comparisons of Hamilton against Moss, Fangio, Clark etc is like comparing Adam Ondra with Joe Brown and others from days past.

In reply to Sean Kelly:

Agreed. He must become Sir Lewis Hamilton.

6
 Clint86 17 Nov 2020
In reply to Tom V:

Ha. Yes, tricky. It would make for long days.

 kipper12 17 Nov 2020
In reply to overdrawnboy:

The other big thing which is overlooked is the reliability of a modern F1 car.  The cars from earlier eras were very fragile beasts.  Often cars would breakdown well before the chequered flag 

In reply to wintertree:

It seems that they are looking to move to new fuel sources from 2026.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54917111

This development may have long-term impact on how we power vehicles, however getting the teams around will use conventional fuels for quite a while.

 d508934 17 Nov 2020
In reply to Tyler:

Yep subsequently found that. Doesn’t make clear when he was cleared. He wasn’t reinstated in full sense when I was there (left 2001) - they all came back to single teacher/single classroom setup (one old teacher came out of retirement to do it as no existing staff at the time would do it, such was the level of violence/shock in the school). Wonder if he went through with that and got cleared retrospective to that. Weird to me if so, why would mistaken identity take so long to clear? 
 

2
 Tom V 19 Nov 2020
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Any support for Ronnie O'Sullivan's comments?   

1
 timjones 19 Nov 2020
In reply to wintertree:

> If you wanted to send a message with Formula 1 about the environment, you'd drop the sport.  Phenomenal energy cost for some entertainment.  Then again the same could be said about Hollywood and computer games.

If your name is Lewis Hamilton you preach about the need to give up meat to save the planet whilst poncing around burning huge volumes of fuel 

 Babika 19 Nov 2020
In reply to Tom V:

> Any support for Ronnie O'Sullivan's comments?   

His comment falls apart when you see that Bottas in an identical car and weather conditions came 14th  

Some folk are just jealous of success.

And of  course there's often an unspoken whiff of racism and classism...

3
 Tom V 19 Nov 2020
In reply to Babika:

Is there racism in O'Sullivan's comment or are you just using that implication to weaken his argument?

If latent racism is colouring O'Sullivan's reaction to Hamilton's success, how come he includes Ronaldo and Woods on his list of GOAT athletes?

Post edited at 16:00
1
In reply to Babika:

> His comment falls apart when you see that Bottas in an identical car and weather conditions came 14th 

There's no doubting that Hamilton is better than Bottas and he is undoubtedly in the Top 5 drivers of all time , but even then, to use one race where Bottas had a complete meltdown is a bit of an unfair yardstick.  Also, was Hamilton actually the best driver of the day? Both Vettel and Sainz had arguably better races.
Anyway, the true comparison would be in equal machinery with the likes of Verstappen, etc. over the course of a season.

> And of course there's often an unspoken whiff of racism and classism...

Only by people trying to weaponise it.
 


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