UKH

... listen to the conversation between Gareth Southgate and Raheem Sterling  on this morning's Today programme. 

Measured, thoughtful, responsible, self deprecatory, realistic and ambitious - about as far from the stumbling 'game of 2 halves' cliche as you could imagine.

One of the few things in the UK that we can currently be proud of.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Can I refer you to this 😜

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/off_belay/i_would_rather-742387

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Why would listening to a radio programme suddenly succeed where 55 years worth of sports teachers and media coverage have failed?

We don't all have to appreciate the same sports and hobbies.

In reply to timjones:

I wasn't suggesting football haters suddenly adopt the Beautiful Game; I'm not even that keen myself. But Southgate and Sterling would be heartening to listen to, whatever their chosen field of endeavour.

Which is what I tried to imply.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Do you think it is as a result of some systemic improvement? Marcus Rashford or Jordan Henderson could have easily replaced Sterling in this context. Or is it just good fortune at the moment? I was thinking Big Sam and Kyle Walker would have given a very different impression. 

In reply to artif:

yes!  One of my threads referred to in another.

In terms of football, yes.  I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than watch a game, or discuss it.

But the conversation that was on R4 this morning was great to listen to.  The effect that a strong loving family and a decent mentor can have on a young person's direction of life can't be overstated..

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

A conversation between two very impressive characters.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I am not a football hater -- I'm a "professional sports" hater. Most footie fans who have met me cannot tell the difference.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Maybe they can at least set an example and all be vaccinated then. The crowds attending have to be. 

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Finding football as interesting as watching a slice of bread go stale does not equate to hate. Dodgy assumption you’re making there.

Despite being Scottish and a “football hater,” I was rooting for the England team in the European Cup, entirely because of the likes of Southgate, Kane and Sterling (and Neville and Lineker). For context, I take zero interest in the rare occasions Scotland ever play in a meaningful tournament.

In reply to 65:

In that case this thread wasn't  for you then!

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

If they were talking about Glapwell FC vs Kiveton Miners Welfare I might give them a listen but I can't get enthusiastic about millionaires playing childrens games.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

A strange title, when what you are really talking about is a few people involved in football, rather than the game itself, or the vast majority of people who play and support it

All very different from the people in the program, we need many many more Southgate's and Stirling's to create the sea change needed but they're great and a good start.

It'll never make football a good a watch though, it's simply too boring.

In reply to ThunderCat:

Yet here you are...

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I am completely neutral about people choosing to chase a ball around a field. 

I am completely against watching people chasing a ball around a field. 

I abhor the culture which surrounds people chasing a ball around a field. 

It good to hear that some of them are proving to be good people. Hopefully they will effect some positive change on the culture surrounding it. I suspect many people's hatred actually is far more to do with the violence and vitriol which accompanies it. As far as the game its self goes, it's equally dull as golf, basketball, ping-pong and any other version of chasing a ball around!! But I would only actively have negative feelings towards any of those if I had to watch them! The culture surrounding football is the thing which sets it apart from other forms of ball chasing.

In reply to girlymonkey: That's my thoughts, I'm never quite sure about the tribalism aspect, too, I think it can remind me of when conflict occurs in the world, and I find that unsettling (the subsuming of an individual identity into a group one, where people may behave differently to their everyday selves). I don't suppose it'll go away as a part of human nature though, and football is a mostly harmless setting for it to exist in.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Yes. Great thread to start.

I listened to it as it was broadcast, as I was struck by the young editor of Today, choosing good subjects, such as Afghanistani peoples, and their dire plight. Maybe the Joe Biden, president of the USA should have been listening.

I have been thinking of telling my daughter to listen to that Sterling/Southgate interview. It was inspiring to hear Gareth Southgate admitting that he had to apologise to his players due to being somewhat ignorant of some of the abuse suffered on the pitch.

In reply to girlymonkey:

I suspect for many it's the money. Owning a club at the top is just a hobby for dubious billionaires with nothing else to buy. Players receive more per week than many in a year, whilst they suck vast amounts from their supporters for tv rights, match tickets, ridiculous priced merchandise... then we are supposed to be grateful or appreciative because 1 or 2 of the many footballing millionaires have a conscience.

If they had a genuine care they'd refuse to even consider attending the next world cup, but they won't even speak out. 

In reply to girlymonkey:

'I suspect many people's hatred actually is far more to do with the violence and vitriol which accompanies it.'

Hmm, there's a bit of an irony, right there. 

In reply to summo:

It's more than one or two, good news stories don't sell papers, but probably not much different to any section of society. That the likes of Sterling, Rashford, Mane are using their platform/influence to do something constructive deserves our respect and support. The likes of Walker and Mendy our contempt. 

I think the teams behind Rashford and Sterling realise that speaking as individuals can have effective outcomes on things like free school meals and racial bias in press reporting. Even if they could get the whole England squad to refused to take part in the world cup, would it change anything? There would probably be allegations that the Premier League is too powerful, player usually refuse to play for their country for the benefit of their club side. 

In reply to summo:

Should I have not gone to Yosemite because Donald Trump was president of the USA? 

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I took you up on the challenge and I'm afraid I was bored shitless. I guess they both seem like nice people, but they weren't saying anything I was remotely interested in.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

It's quite different! Hatred for a culture surrounding a dull game Vs hatred, and often violence, towards people who wear a different coloured top. Or just happen to be around them when the game happens! (Domestic violence rates increase horrifically during big football matches.)

You can hate a culture without hating the people!

In reply to Pedro50:

Relevance? Trump isn't or hasn't exploited non arabs to build to Yosemite.

In reply to RobAJones:

Fifa, ioc, iaf and the fa, all rotten to the core, driven by money, not ethics or any moral values. 

In reply to summo:

No argument with that. Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic, but I'd like to think, if the likes of Southgate, Sterling and Rashford were running the FA in 20 years time, it might be a little better. 

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Fortunately there are great and inspirational characters in all walks of life.

If the sports teacher that covered football at my secondary school had been such a person I may have turned out loving the game

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I love footy and enjoy - most of the time - a season ticket for my local club, but I don't care if others like it, nor would I try to convince them otherwise. 

The idea that anything related to football (in its current state) is something to be proud of, beyond being proud of the results of the club that you support, is hilarious when you take a step back and take even a cursory glance at the money, corruption and bullshit. 

I'll try to give it a listen, but it's going to be very hard to be proud of Sterling or Southgate. 

In reply to Pedro50:

Travelling as an individual is very different from officially representing your country.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

You mean, that talking about vitriol is vitriolic? 

Right, We Must Never Mention Vitriol Ever Again, or else we will be vitriolic.

Edit: It's not as if Celtic and Rangers fans have never said unpleasant things about one another, or Manchester City and United fans. Millwall fans revel in being unpleasant. You must be aware of such things, as a football fan?

In reply to Timmd:

I like to think I have been very supportive for a number of United fans during this difficult time for them. 

Yes, but things are massively better than they were 30 years ago and I'll accept that perhaps Millwall are still an exception. I was pretty uncomfortable reading some of the Sarah Everard threads on here, but it was only a minority. 

In reply to RobAJones:

It's not vitriolic to mention vitriol, where vitriol exists, is all I was saying.

I'm sure you have been decent about United fans...

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Thanks for doing that. Reading your review means I don't have to listen to it myself.

Edit: Just in case it's not clear, I'm being sincere here.

In reply to girlymonkey:

My thoughts too.

I can't grasp the appeal of chasing a ball round a field, but hey, I go climbing so who am I to talk? Each to their own, and if that's what they want to do then there's a lot worse they could be doing.

Watching other people chase a ball round a field? That's even weirder. But I suppose you could consider it to be in the same league as watching a ballet or some other artistic movement. I don't get it, but clearly there is something in it for some people.

Banging on ad nauseum about watching people chasing a ball round a field? FFS get a life. 

In reply to Timmd:

Fair enough. 

I'm struggling a bit with two points that I agree with but seem a bit at odds with each other. The first from you about the tribal nature of football and the tendency for people to act differently in group. In this respect the violence at matches is a small fraction of what it was in the '80's (Millwall excepted). The second point was GM' s about domestic violence after (old firm?) games. Some studies dispute the correlation, but I think there is a definite increase on  those days. Is the tribal nature of football the cause, domestic violence doesn't result from a mob mentality? Alcohol consumption is going to have an effect, is any perpretator only violent on match days? Does the religious aspect have an effect in Glasgow? As a football fan am I looking to show that I'm not part of a culture that leads to domestic violence? Am I spending too much time thinking as I'm waiting for a PCR result?? 

Yep, they showed me a great deal of sympathy when we were in League 1, only right that I should reciprocate. 

In reply to RobAJones:

True and very funny.

I remember when I went to watch Latics get thrashed again at Preston NE.  They must have felt sorry for us coz they left trays of meat and potato pies for us at the exit.  

The mega cash and corruption does exist (I hope one day a film is made about the madness that occurred at our club - bought by a mega gambler!). But I think many folk are not aware of the good work many of them do. Raising awareness of racism is more than tokenistic. And the likes of Beckham, whilst loaded, does a HUGE amount for worthwhile causes (just been reading up, an impressive guy).  

In reply to Moacs:

Well the thread title was "football haters" not "football fans", which probably explains why as someone who doesn't really like football, I read the thread. 

And here you are selectively chopping off most of my reply so that the context is completely lost. Very odd behaviour. 

Just to add, I have a dislike for football. I wouldn't say I hate it, or anything. Hate is a bit of a corrosive attitude which I'm trying to steer myself away from. 

In reply to RobAJones:

On a personal level, I possibly had in mind some crowd behaviour I encountered after a game in Sheffield, I was making my way a short way along a pavement against the flow, and kept being encountered with irritation by the fans because I was 'In their way' as they followed the stream. In any other setting, I think we'd have both done the English thing of moving a bit and sidling past each other.

I wouldn't consider tribalism and crowd dynamics to be exclusive to football, but it's something which surrounds football, as well as other sports or activities. When England win, domestic violence goes up probably due to alcohol consumed, but when they lose, it goes up by more again, which is horrible (both are), but it's not a comment on football, I don't think, but on the characters of certain men who happen to be football fans (they'd probably find another reason if football didn't exist).

In reply to Bottom Clinger:

The Leeds fans were impressive at 7-0 down the other week. 

Perhaps it a bit rich coming from a City fan, but I wouldn't be too bothered if all the money disappeared from the game. I went just as mental after the Div. 1 play off as I did after Aguerooo..... I'd love to see the likes of Palmer, Edozie, Delap et al. come through our academy and win the Champions league. What must it have been like to be a Celtic fan in '67?

The odd story makes news but most don't for every Defoe story there must be dozens that only get a local mention. Dean Henderson anyone? Having said that, there are footballers who are selfish so and so's. Earning that much and still trying to evade tax?? 

And in terms of newspaper reporting he has been effective. I think you can tell that for him that was personal, as school dinners is for Rashford. 

Sadio Mane is another and he's not likely to ever play for United. 

In reply to ThunderCat:

and

?

In reply to Moacs:

Nope.  Still don't understand your point, your selective quotation or, your motivation for posting.  You need to either elaborate with full sentences or stop being a silly sausage. 

Ideally both

In reply to Moacs:

and why not?

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

in what way?

In reply to Cobra_Head:

That's what is puzzling me.  I don't like football and the thread title isn't exactly shouting "hey, all you people who really love football come and have a look at this"?  So yeah... "and here I am"

I think the poster has taken a bit of a dislike to me.  I wonder what I've done. Maybe I've stumbled on my serial disliker

In reply to 65:

A little bit tricky - The UEFA European Cup (now Champions League) is a club competition, not open to international teams.

In reply to ThunderCat:

Not allowed to disagree,