/ Decathlon Climbing Ropes

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G_M123 12 Apr 2019

Does any one have any experience with Decathlon climbing ropes?

thanks

Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator12 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

Simond? Had a couple, a little stiff, gets dirty easily, feel like they will be hard-wearing,

Chris

SGD 12 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

I've copied this from a previous thread - May 18. The rope in question is still going strong despite weekly use (sometimes 2 or 3 times a week). It has softened a little but is still fairly wiry which I know some people prefer to a softer rope in regards to clipping.

We have a Simond 30m as our indoor rope atm and so far so good (3 months of use) the sheath on 1st acquaintance appears quite rough and therefore the handling isn't as nice as a more expensive brand, you will notice it when it runs over your hand as you clip. Although it is still pretty slick through a standard bug and a grigri2. The flip side of this is that the rope is holding up to indoor abuse very well. So in summary very hard wearing work horse rope that lacks the finesse and handling qualities of other brands.

Hope this helps

From this thread: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/gear/cheap_80m-686382?v=1#x8794777

Oceanrower 12 Apr 2019
The Jazz Butcher 12 Apr 2019
Neil Williams 12 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

We use the 25m wall ropes at our Scout wall, the length is absolutely perfect and they are nice and cheap and handle nicely and seem to be lasting well.  However, they are, as someone else said, a bit stiff - great for top-roping where you really don't want novices being put off by decking on rope stretch, but I'm not sure I would particularly want to take a massive lob on one when leading, I think the catch would be very hard.

Post edited at 09:39
Ewan Russell 12 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

I have their half ropes as of this Christmas so far seem really good. Have also just bought their 9.5mm single rope. Which I am impressed with wouldn't describe it as stiff seems very nice. Have heard good reviews of the 9.1mm single as well.

G_M123 12 Apr 2019

Thanks for all the advice,

jonnie3430 12 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

I chopped a 200m roll a while ago, the one we kept is still going strong, seems hard-wearing, feels a little stiff though.

G_M123 12 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

On this topic has anybody used Beal ropes?

thanks

1
Wanderlust 12 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

I've used a Beal Joker and it's basically the opposite of the Simond reviews above. Handles superbly but stretchy and hasn't taken abuse well.

Mammut make the best ropes IMHO. Certainly the best I've used. Perhaps more on the hard wearing end of the spectrum but that's no bad thing.

KS132 12 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

Yes, and very happy with them. I have just bought a new one from Go Outdoors. 

captain paranoia 12 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

> On this topic has anybody used Beal ropes?

It's not really on topic. Try searching the forums:

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/info/search.php?forum=11&dates=1&name=&topic=beal&body=

3
Ramon Marin 14 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

I had many and they are brilliant, just bought another 80mm 9,2mm and it's great. None have stiff, but never bought a 10mm

88Dan 17 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

I bought a simond rope dirt cheap just after Christmas. so far I have made various length dog leads out of it, including a longer one I attach to a ground spike. I have also used part of it as a tow rope and I have used it for securing things on the back of the van after ratchet straps mysteriously vanished. as for climbing abseiling and when I used to work on the ropes, Beal all the way and nothing will ever change my mind. if you are passionate about a particular sport or hobby then at least buy decent gear.

24
Luke_92 17 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

I’ve been using a Beal Karma for a few years now, bought as my first rope; 9.8 diameter I think. Pretty stretchy for the thickness, nice soft catches and actually held up really well. Handles nicely as well, I think.  It’s not been used constantly in that time, but it’s lasted much longer than I expected. 

It’s just now ready to have the ends cut off where it’s worn the most, and I had planned on upgrading, but I’m so impressed I’m considering just buying another! 

john arran 17 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> Beal all the way and nothing will ever change my mind. if you are passionate about a particular sport or hobby then at least buy decent gear.

Nothing at all wrong with Beal ropes but this kind of brand fundamentalist thinking should have no credibility in modern consumer thinking. There are plenty of good brands that will do the job extremely well and as safely as one could expect. Thankfully we have (for now at least) CE standards to help reassure us that the equipment we buy is fit for purpose.

1
duchessofmalfi 18 Apr 2019

All the Beal ropes I've ever had have become trashed very quickly - they are very supple but don't last - quite a contrast to the practically indestructible Mamut ropes I've used.

FWIW I've got a pair of the ridiculously skinny Simond 1/2 ropes which are great I you don't mind the "climbing on shoelaces" problem.

1
88Dan 18 Apr 2019
In reply to john arran:

Fair point, but you get what you pay for. my first rope was a 10mm 50m marmot rope which kinked and twisted no matter what I did with it. no matter how many times I ran it through my hands or how carefully I laid it out on a sheet. lowering a climber from a 20m climb took forever because you had to untwist it constantly. not long after I bought my first Beal rope which was a 10.2 60m flyer and I never looked back.

4
tjin 18 Apr 2019

I have had Simond ropes, all were fine. One of my double/twin 7.5mm was damaged due to abrasion on sharp granite and was shortened. 

Mine 9mm triple rated Simond is still fine after alpine and ice climbing for 4 years.

My ropes generally get retired after too much damage (kicking a front point of a crampon all the way through) or age (Kind of strict on this, but I'm the health and safety guy, former tower worker and former firefighter, so I have high standards for this).

1
john arran 18 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

So from a sample of just 2 ropes, you decided that one reputable brand (that many on here think is great) is awful and the other reputable brand (that many on here also think is great) is the only brand that's worth buying. Ever.

1
gooberman-hill 18 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

I've had many brands of rope over the years - Edelerid's were a particular favourite for many years.

My latest alpine ropes are a pair of Simond 60m 1/2 ropes. They handle just fine, and I have absolutely no complaints.

Steve 

88Dan 18 Apr 2019
In reply to john arran:

I'll buy things I like/want and brands I trust and everyone else can do the same.

9
john arran 18 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

And nobody is stopping you doing that. But I think it's probably useful for others, when faced with your seemingly strident and forceful advice, to realise what flimsy underpinnings it's actually based on.

2
88Dan 18 Apr 2019
In reply to john arran:

If people want to buy cheap gear no one is stopping them. but it won't ever find it's way in to my climbing bag.

23
NaCl 18 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

buy what you like but saying that gear that's perfectly fit for purpose, isn't, is at the least very misleading.

2
88Dan 18 Apr 2019
In reply to NaCl:

Maybe people need to do their own research and then buy gear for themselves instead of reading reviews on internet forums.

20
Alex Riley 18 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Is that not literally what they are doing? Researching... by reading reviews..

Out of the ropes I've owned beal have the been the ones I got one with least. Super tangly from new (mellowed out a bit now though).

ashtond6 18 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

My simond 80m is amazing and most importantly, half the price of the competition with the same handing.

Unless you are climbing 8c, I doubt it makes any difference.

1
jimtitt 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> Maybe people need to do their own research and then buy gear for themselves instead of reading reviews on internet forums.


Your account has been hacked, there's someone above using your log-in to review ropes.

1
88Dan 19 Apr 2019
In reply to jimtitt:

I mean people need to check things out for themselves and make their own mind up instead of just reading/asking what everyone else thinks. ask a forum full of people what they think of Ferrari's, some will love them some will hate them. but if the person asking the question wants one badly enough they will get one, regardless of how many people have negative things to say about them. reading reviews on new gear is pretty pointless, regardless of cost when new and build quality everything is pretty much the same when new from a shop. it's a much better idea to read reviews from people who have owned and used a particular item of gear for several years to find out how long it's likely to last.

Post edited at 08:09
9
NaCl 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

"Maybe people need to do their own research and then buy gear for themselves instead of reading reviews on internet forums". So instead of researching they should just buy the product for themselves and get on with it? Possibly send it off to DMM or something? Sounds.... reasonable?  

"if the person asking the question wants one badly enough they will get one, regardless of how many people have negative things to say".  True enough I'll grant you. I've read reviews before now and bought the product regardless of what it said. No one here has at any point claimed that you, me or anyone isn't allowed an opinion on a product or service. There's a difference between X was a false economy in my experience and X is borderline dangerous though. I've had many ropes from many manufacturers and Beal are pretty good but imo Mammut are better. To imply Beal are "not decent great" is not really any sort of fair comment though. Especially based on 1 rope

"it's a much better idea to read reviews from people who have owned and used a particular item of gear for several years" I can see nothing anywhere about why you think so poorly of Simond. You do mention you've had one for 4 months and used it for dog leads, ground spikes but not anything about climbing or otherwise. 

Post edited at 08:55
1
88Dan 19 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

To be honest I buy what I buy for piece of mind. not that I have had any gear fail on me, not that I would want to either. I am not just basing my opinion on one rope, I have owned and used ropes from Beal edelrid mammut and tendon and I always stick with Beal. if people don't just go out and buy an item of gear, how does anyone know what this gear is actually like? in order to test items of gear someone has got to take a step in to the unknown and buy something to later review it for the benefit of others. as for why do I think so poorly of Simond, I just don't trust cheap gear. it's not as well made it doesn't handle as well. if it's something you wear I have found cheap gear to be not as comfortable and a bit on the heavy side. it might be more than up to the job but as I said before it's not for me.

10
NaCl 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Ah righto. It's not Simond per se. It's all manufacturers other than Beal.... 

You work for Beal by any chance?

2
88Dan 19 Apr 2019
In reply to NaCl:

It has nothing to do with Beal. and no I do not work for Beal. Not only do I not trust the quality of cheaper gear, but I would rather buy gear from brands that are already well established well tested and well trusted. it shows a pretty half arsed attitude to whatever sport or hobby you are involved in when you decide to buy the cheapest gear you can find.

10
NaCl 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Simond were established in 1860. Clearly the new kids on the block

1
john arran 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

>  it shows a pretty half arsed attitude to whatever sport or hobby you are involved in when you decide to buy the cheapest gear you can find.

One thing I've never found myself accused of is having a half-arsed attitude to climbing. There's a first time for everything!

1
NaCl 19 Apr 2019
In reply to john arran:

You should have applied yourself a bit more!

1
jonnie3430 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Nah, you're wrong, Beal ropes feel nice, but they're too stretchy and wear out quick, so you hit ledges and end up chopping bits off.  Go with something nice and robust like a decathlon rope and add less waste to world, especially plastics like climbing rope.

1
captain paranoia 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> I am not just basing my opinion on one rope

The one rope in question was the Simond, which you have owned for just four months, and don't actually appear to have used for climbing.

Your objection to the Simond rope appears to be that it's cheap. I expect confirmation bias may be involved if you actually used it for climbing; you've already said as much: you don't feel you can trust cheap gear.

Post edited at 10:22
1
tjin 19 Apr 2019

Simond is an old and known European brand. Simond climbing stuff is CE and UIAA certified. Sure you can see and feel that their hardware is not hot forged and not as fancy.

With Simond ropes, you do not get a rope bag (like some beals, but that clear plastic bit cracks and fall apart anyways), you do not get a velcro tie (like beal, tendon, etc. Who actually uses them?) and they seem to be slightly shorter then other brands when laid out side by side, but do not appear to be shorter than the stated length. They just have less extra's.

I understand the trust issue with random Aliexpres stuff; questionable brands, questionable claimed certifications, questionable seller. Simond is none of this. Simond is certainly not the best, but certainly not bad. 

1
jimtitt 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> It has nothing to do with Beal. and no I do not work for Beal. Not only do I not trust the quality of cheaper gear, but I would rather buy gear from brands that are already well established well tested and well trusted. it shows a pretty half arsed attitude to whatever sport or hobby you are involved in when you decide to buy the cheapest gear you can find.


Cousin/Trestec (who make the ropes for Simond) were founded in 1848, Beal in 1950.

Some Beal ropes are o.k, some are rubbish. I use Tendon mostly but have owned most brands over my career, including Cousin.

1
beardy mike 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> Maybe people need to do their own research and then buy gear for themselves instead of reading reviews on internet forums.

Maybe you should do your own research. If you did you'd know that brands like Beal manufacture for other brands, so your claim that you can't buy cheap ropes is utter tripe. For example, I used to buy Lyon Branded ropes on the basis that I knew they were beal ropes. Cousin Trestec is a reliable manufacturer too - one of the best ropes I've owned came from them and I would have bought from them again had they been available easily in the UK. If you start digging into who manufactures for whom, I think you might get a shock... 

Also I feel I might need to explain to you how Decathlon works. They bought Simond so they could sell Simond gear only through their shops, thus cutting out the middle man and not having the distribution costs associated with that. That means you are buying gear which is as good quality at less money. Sure, it's not the most technologically advanced or pretty, but it IS fit for purpose, and it's certainly not "new" - the two companies involved have been around for a very very long time. I've bought a few other bits and piece from them and it's got to be said, my initial sniffyness at the price tag has been quashed - it's OK stuff at a crazy price. But you crack on. I stopped buying Beals after I had Ice Lines from them, one lasted a week, the replacement they sent me lasted a season. But hey, we are all wrong and you are right, so that's that really. You've done the research.

Post edited at 10:43
1
NaCl 19 Apr 2019
In reply to tjin:

"I understand the trust issue with random Aliexpres stuff; questionable brands, questionable claimed certifications, questionable seller. Simond is none of this. Simond is certainly not the best, but certainly not bad."

This. Exactly this. Simond isn't some dodgy ebay seller who may (or may not) test their gear to set standards and may (or may not) perform to the levels required. This is a established European company with a long history in the sport they are producing equipment for, backed by an even larger company with guarantees and a good reputation. 
They are cheap by not advertising everywhere and not adding the "value added" elements that are largely no use at all

1
NaCl 19 Apr 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

Woahwoahwoah Mike - that's a bit unfair. He tied his dog up with the rope, thats some exhaustive testing

3
beardy mike 19 Apr 2019
In reply to NaCl:

Soz. I missed that. I withdraw my earlier post in its entirety.

1
beardy mike 19 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

I've done a bit of reading on Cousin and Simond websites, I'm like 90% sure that the Simond Edge is a rebranded Cousin Optima, former on sale for £110 for an 80m rope, latter costing 198euro RRP for a 70m rope. So not quite half price...

2
d_b 19 Apr 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

When I was doing tests for ukcanine.com we found that Simond ropes were entirely unsuitable as dog leads. 

FYI: Beal Icelines were ideal for small yappy dogs, while yellow Mammut semi static seemed to be optimal for big b*stard face eating dogs.

Post edited at 12:20
2
88Dan 19 Apr 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

I know how decathlon works. you guys crack on buying the cheap crap sold by decathlon and I will stick to the brands I know and trust. I don't care how long simond have been making climbing gear, if they were worth knowing about I would have heard about them long before now, I haven't so what does that tell you? I have just tried to look through a few things on decathlons website and it has been blocked as a dangerous website. even firefox knows what shite they are selling and won't even let me view it. need I say more.

48
Oceanrower 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Nope. You need say no more. In fact, I think you've said too much already...

2
NaCl 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

 Wipe your mouth. You're frothing

1
88Dan 19 Apr 2019
In reply to Oceanrower:

Too bad pal. everyone is entitled to an opinion. if you don't like it I suggest you try living in a country where everyone isn't allowed an opinion.

26
captain paranoia 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> I haven't so what does that tell you?

You haven't done your research...?

1
NaCl 19 Apr 2019

In reply to Oceanrower:

I've been so good. I've been aching to say that since the argument started changing for every reply.

1
Oceanrower 19 Apr 2019
In reply to NaCl:

Hmm. My post appears to have disappeared!

captain paranoia 19 Apr 2019
In reply to Oceanrower:

Interesting that suggesting it's not okay to defame reputable manufacturers gets your comment deleted, but irrational ranting is allowed to remain.

2
Oceanrower 19 Apr 2019
In reply to captain paranoia:

Maybe Decathlon don't advertise on here...

2
NaCl 19 Apr 2019
In reply to captain paranoia:

I shall try my hardest to summarise for the viewers at home but without the flavoursome language that made the original post such a bit with the mods:

- Having an opinion is fine.

-Having an opinion and sharing it publicly potentially slandering or libelling (or would that be libellising? lol) a company with an excellent overall reputation is not. 

- if you do do the above, expect someone to point out your Ill concieved and poorly informed notions and call you on them making you look foolish. 

- I'm also not your mate.

As Harry Hill would say: FIGHT!

Post edited at 14:35
2
NaCl 19 Apr 2019
In reply to Oceanrower:

If you do fight be aware - he's got a dog. It's tied up but the lead isn't very good apparently!

2
beardy mike 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan: You mean the cheap crap made by Cousin Trestec one of the oldest rope manufacturers in the world that's just rebranded so it can be sold cheaper so that Cousin Trestec achieve a higher volume? OK, we will. On the strength of the reviews I've found I'll be buying a Cousin rope sold by Decathlon...

2
The Jazz Butcher 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> if they were worth knowing about I would have heard about them long before now.

I appreciate Simond aren't as well known in the UK as other brands. However, Simond have been producing mountaineering equipment since the mid 19th Century in the Chamonix Valley and have always been a well known and popular brand on the continent.

I come across European climbers who haven't heard of DMM when they see my lovely DMM Alphas. Just because DMM aren't as well known in Europe as Simond, that doesn't mean DMM equipment is not good quality.

TJB.

1
Oceanrower 19 Apr 2019
In reply to NaCl:

Thank you for your summary. You are clearly a more rounded and diplomatic person than I am.

Still preferred my version though...

1
NaCl 19 Apr 2019
In reply to Oceanrower:

So did I. It was very.... forthright.

"a more rounded and diplomatic person than I". Oh how my friends would laugh at this comment if they saw it. I have a constant battle to not say things on here.

Post edited at 15:28
1
88Dan 19 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

I take it a lot of you use simond ropes or simond gear in general. why should you be allowed to do that when someone like me gets slated for saying that they use Beal ropes? you use what you like and I'll use what I like. just don't expect me to use what you like and like it. I had never heard of simond until a few years ago, my time as a climber has been spent using DMM Petzl Black Diamond Wild Country and five ten. if simond gear was just as good as all those brands then I would have heard about it when I first started climbing. I have never heard of it before so what does that tell you? if it was as good as people claim then every climber on earth would know about it.

20
NaCl 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

As you say - use what you like. I think no one has an issue with that. The issue came from slating a manufacturer as substandard without any evidence other than the good price. This was then compounded by refusing to accept that when offering advice to someone else this might be less than the best way to go.

You've been using DMM, WC, BD and all the rest because they're English speaking companies, in the UK where we speak English. Simond sell through 1 company in this country which is in limited locations and doesn't advertise (because it doesn't really need to -  it is carried by every Decathlon in Europe.)

And I've got a few Simond products yes. Not a rope but other bits and bobs and they're fine. Not the spiffiest but strong as hell and completely functional. If you want bling then BD/DMM imo

Post edited at 16:16
1
jimtitt 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> I have never heard of it before so what does that tell you?

That you know nothing so shouldn't in your ignorance decry products you know nothing about. I'm typing this wearing Simond trousers and my rack is clearly made by companies you also never heard of.

P.s. you should check who makes gear for your beloved companies before spouting off. Like Petzl just to pick one who had ropes made by Cousin.

1
NaCl 19 Apr 2019
In reply to jimtitt:

 Killshot

1
88Dan 19 Apr 2019
In reply to jimtitt:

I have never used a petzl rope so it doesn't bother me.

2
88Dan 19 Apr 2019
In reply to jimtitt:

I have used cheaper or lesser brands of gear for most hobbies and sports in the past, which is why I no longer use cheaper gear. so I an not simply disliking cheap gear based on it's price.

1
88Dan 19 Apr 2019
In reply to NaCl:

I have used equipment from manufacturers selling and making cheap gear, which is what I am basing my comparison on.

1
gooberman-hill 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Funny that. I'm sitting here in the Chamonix Valley a couple of km from the Simond factory. Simond have been making climbing gear for alpinists since 1820, when they were local blacksmiths 

But I guess you have never heard of them.... After all, what have they ever done on grit?

1
88Dan 19 Apr 2019
In reply to gooberman-hill:

What is the name of the building company at the end of my road? your an idiot if you have never heard of them.

10
NaCl 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

"I have used cheaper or lesser brands of gear for most hobbies and sports in the past, which is why I no longer use cheaper gear. so I an not simply disliking cheap gear based on it's price."

"I have used equipment from manufacturers selling and making cheap gear, which is what I am basing my comparison on."

You've used cheap gear for other sports previously (but not Simond) so it's not about the price.

Except for the fact that you haven't used Simond and have had no negative experiences so it pretty much has to be the price surely? I'm confused now. You know all about them but don't, it isn't the price but it is?!

 

Post edited at 17:18
1
88Dan 19 Apr 2019
In reply to NaCl:

Of course it's not just about the price.

1
gooberman-hill 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

The point is they have been making climbing gear for 200 years at the place where climbing started.

Maybe you should get out more. There's a whole world out there's

2
d_b 19 Apr 2019
In reply to gooberman-hill:

What we have here is a textbook* example of the Dunning-Kruger effect in all it's glory. 

The combined knowledge of half a dozen experienced climbers & equpiment designers is outweighed by the ignorance of 88Dan, because he isn't capable of realising that he is just making himself look stupid.

Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGex0kLgNok

*but sadly not rare.

Post edited at 18:30
1
NaCl 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

So the evidence you give for implying less than acceptable standards of performance from the brand is..... ?

1
d_b 19 Apr 2019
In reply to NaCl:

...french innit!

1
NaCl 19 Apr 2019
In reply to d_b:

Ah hawhehawhehaw Mon chien a echappe. Ma corde est merde.

*Please forgive awful French and worse French impersonation

Post edited at 19:12
1
captain paranoia 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> What is the name of the building company at the end of my road? your an idiot if you have never heard of them.

No. I would be an idiot if I said that they were rubbish, knowing absolutely nothing about them.

Do they need someone who is persistent at digging holes? You could ask for a job...

1
88Dan 19 Apr 2019
In reply to captain paranoia:

I tell people where to dig the holes mate.

8
Pedro50 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

You registered 3 days ago and have no profile. You have been confrontational to a number of highly respected climbers who have a huge technical knowledge. Maybe give it a rest. You are a bore.

1
NaCl 19 Apr 2019
In reply to Pedro50:

Don't spoil it! We're having fun! 

1
d_b 19 Apr 2019
In reply to NaCl:

Simond ropes are made by cousin.

None of my cousins know the first thing about making ropes or climbing.

Therefore simond ropes are not for me.

People with more appropriately skilled relatives may use them with impunity.

Post edited at 22:22
2
Climbthatpitch 19 Apr 2019
In reply to Pedro50:

I was just getting the popcorn

1
Deadeye 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

You're pretty funny.

And, yes, I know it's wrong to laugh at people, but you make it too easy.

1
88Dan 19 Apr 2019
In reply to Pedro50:

I am 31 years old and have been climbing since the age of 8. why does it matter how many days ago I registered as a member on this forum and whether or not I have a profile full of information about myself?

8
88Dan 19 Apr 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

You should meet me in person mate. I am just as funny if not more so.

8
d_b 19 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Impressive to do something for over 20 years and learn so little.

1
88Dan 19 Apr 2019
In reply to d_b:

I have learned plenty thank you. I used some cheaper gear within the first few years of climbing, not because of the cost or because I wasn't sure if I would stick with climbing, but mainly because of people telling me how good certain cheaper gear was compared to the expensive gear. in some cases they were right, but in all cases it didn't take me long to figure out what gear I liked and what I didn't. I haven't just looked at items of gear, found that it is cheaper than the gear I have and instantly dismissed it as crap. I know a lot of cheap gear is crap because I have used it myself. making a decision about cheap gear being crap without first using it myself at some point would be a pretty foolish thing to do. and I can guarantee I am no fool. when I first saw simond ropes for sale in decathlon, the cheap price did put me off a little, but actually handling several of the ropes put me off even more. I have felt steel cables with more flexibility. I found the rock+ 10mm 70m rope currently selling at £80 for about £30 if I remember rightly. I bought it to use as an indoor rope even though I hardly climb indoors. the thought being that it would save my new Beal rope getting trashed indoors as can very easily happen, also thinking that if I got a year or so out of it at least it would be worth the very discounted price. I used it for four weeks during winter and bad weather early that year and I swore right then I would never buy another. it's right in the middle of the thickness range for my grigri but still it locked up like crazy both when lead climbing and seconding. no matter how many times I ran it through quickdraws belay devices and flaked it out on my rope sheet it continued to kink, which was surprising considering how stiff it was. the outer sheath also felt very rough which also contributed to the problems when belaying with it. needless to say I have never had any problems with any of the Beal ropes I have owned/used and still own and use today. the 8.6mm cobras I use for trad, the 10.5mm top gun II I use for sport and the 10.5mm antipode static rope I use for abseiling have all worked perfectly and flawlessly right out of the packaging from day one. they have never kinked or twisted and have never missed a beat. this is why I have always used Beal ropes, why I still use them now and why I will continue to use them for as long as I continue to climb. if you have a simond rope you like or love and it works well for you then good luck to you. I thought I was on to a right winner when I found the one I wanted at such a discounted price but sadly it wasn't to be. which was unfortunate because I had such high hopes when I bought it and it left me feeling rather disappointed and let down. I was hoping to restore my faith in cheaper gear and it just didn't happen. I also wasn't able to return it for a refund as I bought it when it was on offer, meaning I had to keep it and find a use for it which I most certainly have.

5
beardy mike 20 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan: ahhh you see, we knew you could do it, express an opinion with some qualifications and imparting a modicum of information. Now carry on. Youve now shown you can write posts which show some intelligence, so all you have to do now is keep bearing in mind that the forums are read by thousands and that people come here for information that extends further than grunting, sniffing your armpit and then throwing your toys out of the pram and youll do just fine. Alas you cant  edit your first post to include the information contained in the last, but at least you now have a baseline of whats required.

88Dan 20 Apr 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

I understand the concept of a forum Mike, I have used them before including this one many years ago. none of the people who have defended simond ropes for example have gone in to such detail to explain why they picked them and why they use them compared to other brands. so why am I required to go to such lengths and depths to explain why I don't like something and won't use it any more? not a lot of fairness going on is there?

3
john arran 20 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Do you insist on only the finest Spear & Jackson No. 3 shovel or would you also consider using cheaper brands?

1
duchessofmalfi 20 Apr 2019

I bought Simond ropes because (a) the meet all applicable standards (b) they were lighter than the competition (important technical requirement for me) (c) they have a decent reputation and (d) they were good value (oh and (e) easily available en-route).

Having used them for alpine, multipitch and Scottish winter I can report that they performed excellently in all respects apart from being a bit tangly (which I put down to them being very thin).

Compared with the Beal ropes I have used I would rate the Simond ones as significantly more robust than Beal ones (based on experience I would already be relegating the Beals to washing line).  I've not used them on grit (simply because I don't need 60m ropes for grit). Compared with ever-lasting Mamuts it is about 5 years too early to tell if they last as long.

Having taken, held falls and abbed on all the ropes in question - they all work perfectly well in this respect but the skinny Simonds really do need a grabby belay device.

There you have as about a comprehensive review as I can make and all that remains for me to say is that you, 88Dan, are a total knob and should give up climbing to work extra hours so you can afford an arcterix pacamac so you can be smug and dry and safe in the knowledge that you've paid 5 times as much to be just as dry as the next person in a tkmax special.

1
Deadeye 20 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> You should meet me in person mate. I am just as funny if not more so.


Even *more* funny?

You're having a laugh.

2
88Dan 20 Apr 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

I told you I'm funny. the laugh you are having only proves my point.

2
88Dan 20 Apr 2019
In reply to john arran:

I don't do the digging so the brand of shovel means nothing to me.

6
88Dan 20 Apr 2019
In reply to duchessofmalfi:

Thank you for your comprehensive review. I think you are a total knob too.

Hopefully you now feel better after insulting me, whether you feel better now or not I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.

Post edited at 18:48
7
d_b 20 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Paragraphs exist.

2
beardy mike 23 Apr 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

Dan, for fear of resurrecting this thread, the reason I think you need to be more precise about your answer is very simple. You started with a tirade about how all cheap gear is shit and that the only ropes you would ever use were Beal. They are according to you the single brand on the market worth buying i.e. Mammut (or Marmot as you called them), Sterling, Edelrid, Petzl, Edelweiss, Cousin Trestec, amongst many others are not worth buying, only Beal. That is a fairly heavy duty claim and if true should be based on something other than just your say so. If you make such a claim, you should be able to make a reasoned argument as to why you believe that to be true as it comes across as thick and condescending not to do so. Especially when you claim people like John Arran don't know what they are talking about. Maybe you want to look him up. If you can't be arsed (quite likely the case) you will see that he is just about the most experienced climber you could be getting advice on climbing from. Same goes for Jim Titt who tests, designs and makes climbing gear for a living, with an expertise in belay plates and rope handling.

The Simond ropes may well be shit, but seeing as by your own admission you've only handled them in a shop, that doesn't really indicate that you possess full knowledge of the product, only a perception. Your perception may be entirely founded, but if you're going to make sweeping statements, like the ropes are new and untested (they're not) that the manufacturer is a new kid on the block (they aren't) and that therefore they are not worth buying, then really you ought to be able to back those statements up. Your post towards the end of all of this did actually provide a bit more information about why you think they are likely to be shit, and no, you don't have to produce an essay. Even "I handled them in the shop and wasn't impressed because they were rough and stiff" would be better than what you actually said. Just some succinct detail would do - instead there was a lot of chest puffed out bullshit making out you were some kind of voice worth listening to because you'd once uncoiled a marmot rope.

Post edited at 16:11
jon 23 Apr 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

Hey Mike, I assume that's a reply to Dan, not you?

beardy mike 23 Apr 2019
In reply to jon:

I do have a habit of talking to myself...

88Dan 23 Apr 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

Of course Beal is not the only rope making company on the market and I didn't suggest it was. neither did I suggest that certain people didn't know what they were talking about. I did say I have used many other brands of rope both cheap and expensive and I prefer Beal ropes. everyone else can buy what they like, or what they feel the best brand of rope for them and I shall do the same. if you like simond ropes then please feel free to buy one and use it. I never said they were shit and no one should buy them, just that I don't like them and won't use one again after having problems with one. I didn't just decide I didn't like them based on price or anything else negative, I bought one and used it and wasn't happy with it, also at the time I spoke to a few other people who weren't happy after buying a simond rope from decathlon. you can't blame me for buying and trying something, not being happy with it then sharing that experience with other like minded people and choosing another product I am happy with. well it seems like people can so that's that out the window. people check this website for honest gear reviews, you can't get angry when you see a bad review about something you like/own/use. not everyone will like everything. many people on this thread have slated Beal ropes, possibly to get back at me for saying I don't like simond ropes, possibly because they have tried and used Beal ropes and don't like them for whatever reason. you don't see me jumping down the throat of everyone who said they don't like Beal ropes just like everyone did with me when I said I don't like simond ropes. no wonder I decided not to fill out my profile information listing my favourite crag rock type and routes, no doubt I will be told I'm wrong there too by anyone who doesn't share my opinion.

As I have already mentioned, I haven't just handled a simond rope in a shop, I bought one and climbed with it and wasn't happy with it. if I did possess full knowledge of such climbing products, no doubt I would be selling them rather than using them. again I never said they are shit and aren't worth buying. I simply said I have used one and didn't like it so I bought and now use something else. why am I sort of being made to feel like I should only own and use one brand of climbing gear? if we were all ment to use the same brand of gear then there would only be one company making climbing gear. then there wouldn't be any need for any puffed out chest bullshit as you said.

7
Oceanrower 23 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> I never said they were shit and no one should buy them, 

Hmm...

"I know how decathlon works. you guys crack on buying the cheap crap"

"even firefox knows what shite they are selling"

1
john arran 23 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

>  why am I sort of being made to feel like I should only own and use one brand of climbing gear? 

"Beal all the way and nothing will ever change my mind."

It would appear you managed to feel that way all by yourself.

1
d_b 23 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

You managed a line break this time. Congratulations!

1
88Dan 23 Apr 2019
In reply to john arran:

I don't use a Beal harness, quickdraws, slings, belay device, bouldering mat or shoes. so I don't just use one brand of climbing gear. ropes on the other hand I do after using and trying many others.

Please feel free to share what brand of rope you use so everyone who doesn't agree can rip you to shreds. starting with me. make sure you give full details of why you picked the rope you did and why you picked it over other brands which may or may not be better. have you tried them all, just a few or just one?

Post edited at 20:14
10
88Dan 23 Apr 2019
In reply to Oceanrower:

What do I know. I have never even seen or used one or even know they exist according to you.

3
john arran 23 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

I see you've yet to find anything from any brand that prevents slipperiness  ;-)

88Dan 23 Apr 2019
In reply to d_b:

I was too busy trying to squeeze in as much as I could to get everyone off my back. and before you say people only got on my back because I said I don't like a brand of rope so many people love, I didn't jump on anyone's back when so many people started slating the brand of rope I use. yet that is exactly what happened to me.

Post edited at 20:11
1
88Dan 23 Apr 2019
In reply to john arran:

Putting sand in vasaline stops slipperiness.

beardy mike 23 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

"I bought a simond rope dirt cheap just after Christmas. so far I have made various length dog leads out of it, including a longer one I attach to a ground spike. I have also used part of it as a tow rope and I have used it for securing things on the back of the van after ratchet straps mysteriously vanished."

I do not have a problem with you disliking anything - nothing could be further from the truth - in fact it is essential that we share information on a forum like this. My problem is with the above. It give literally zero useful information - it's a waste of bandwidth. I don't even know whether you are being serious and literally bought it to tow cars and walk dogs with. You might as well tell us about the dildo you bought to play with because we'd glean about as much information. This was NOT a gear review it's chest puffed out bullshit. A review would be "I bought a Simond rope at christmas. I was attracted by the cheap price but that price proved to be a false economy because the handling was poor, the sheath wore quickly and it twisted like crazy." It took you a whole damn thread to come up with some actual proper critique as to why you thought they were poor for the money.

"as for climbing abseiling and when I used to work on the ropes, Beal all the way and nothing will ever change my mind. if you are passionate about a particular sport or hobby then at least buy decent gear."

This again is utterly unhelpful. Working on the ropes i.e. on static lines is utterly different to climbing. Stating that nothing will ever change your mind is literally crazy talk. What if you'd had the experience I'd had with Ice Lines which was utterly terrible? Would you still just carry on buying ice lines just because nothing would ever change your mind? And yes, if you are passionate, you most likely will buy the best your money can buy - that's not an option for everybody - some people have to look at cheaper alternatives precisely because they hold a passion but cannot afford the best. Should they just go bouldering? Your argument is illogical and patronising.

88Dan 23 Apr 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

Fair point. which is why in a later post I went in to a bit more detail as to why I dislike simond ropes, and other cheaper ropes from various brands I have used over the years. fair enough Beal might not be the best ropes on the market, but out of all the brands and models I have tried they were the ropes I liked. both the cobras I bought for trad climbing, the top gun II I bought for sport climbing and the antipode static line all performed better than other brands and models I have either bought or used in some way in the past. even after going in to detail as to why I use the rope I do and the other brands I tried first and why I don't like them, I still got slated by the hardcore simond fans. no one else went in to such detail as to explain why they like simond ropes or a particular brand, they just jumped on my back because I said I didn't like certain brands and gave reasons as to why I don't like/buy/use certain brands.

As for nothing will ever change my mind in regard to the individual brands of climbing gear I use, why is that so hard to believe or understand? if a particular climbing gear manufacturer, such as Beal ropes for example continues to make ropes that are as good or better than the first Beal rope I bought, why should I suddenly decide to change to a different brand of rope? as long as the gear I use doesn't let me down or fail in a way that is in no way my fault, why shouldn't I continue using gear from a particular brand? if the first Beal rope I had either snapped or fell apart within a few months of climbing, not only would I share that information with a forum full of people looking for rope recommendations but I would never use a Beal rope ever again. as it stands Beal ropes have never let me down so I will continue to buy and use them. why should I change what rope I use just to suit everyone on this forum?

Post edited at 20:58
3
d_b 23 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

No, people got on your back because all the evidence pointed to UKC getting a new village idiot.  You have done little to dispel that notion so far.

beardy mike 23 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Don't try and go all reasonable on my ass. You literally said "nothing will ever change my mind". That is crazy talk. You just said if a beal rope let you down badly post about it, so I don't believe your opening statement.

As for getting slated, these people are NOT Simond fan boys, they are pointing out that your opening statement was total bollocks and didn't even make sense. Look, this doesn't need to drag on and on. I think in the usual UKC flame war way, they are letting you know that the original post was basically total rubbish, and that you could do with making at least a modicum of effort with your post. It went from the first post straight into denial and defensiveness. And then eventually into us triggering the f*ck out of you as it was just getting more and more ridiculous. You obviously have your opinions and ideas and that's great. Share away, just for f*cks sake do it constructively otherwise you get threads like this which go on for hundreds of posts and any worthwhile information gets buried...

1
88Dan 23 Apr 2019
In reply to d_b:

Well I'm not, so I guess that means I can jump on everyone else's back when the mood takes me.

Post edited at 23:14
5
88Dan 23 Apr 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

Excuse me for being reasonable.

to retract my previous statement, everything will change my mind. first thing in the morning I will throw all my climbing gear out, right down to the chalk in my bags/bucket and from now on I will use what ever gear the members of this forum tell me to use. that way I will have all the gear they recommend and like, this will remove all individuality, I'll be just like everyone else on the forum and no one can accuse me of being a brand snob.

Again this is the reason I haven't put any information on my profile. you can't please everyone and someone will always moan no matter what you say or do.

15
beardy mike 24 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan: Are you really this obtuse? Be a beal fanboy. Or a BD fanboy or whatever brand you want, just write some bloody information with it to help other people with your experience. Thats partly what these forums are about, helping people with less experience or product knowledge. But what ever, you crack on, i was trying to help you not to get a slating in the future. 

1
88Dan 24 Apr 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

I am not being obtuse. I just didn't expect to encounter so much resistance for saying I don't like one brand of climbing gear but do like another. If I did like every brand of climbing gear and had to have one of everything from each brand, my house wouldn't be big enough to store everything in. therefore after climbing for as long as I have, I have found brands I like and continue to buy from and I have also found brands I don't like and refuse to buy from.

3
drgrange 25 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Zimpara. It has to be you!? 

1
jimtitt 25 Apr 2019
In reply to drgrange:

> Zimpara. It has to be you!? 


I'm pretty sure Zimpy knew to start sentences with capitals.

1
Andy Gamisou 25 Apr 2019
In reply to drgrange:

> Zimpara. It has to be you!? 

This was my thoughts too.

1
88Dan 25 Apr 2019
In reply to Andy Gamisou:

I don't know who you are referring to. It's been eight years or so since I last used this forum.

88Dan 25 Apr 2019
In reply to jimtitt:

There's no need to start getting picky with me. The way some people type in these forums, use of or lack of capital letters is the least of the worries.

1
jimtitt 25 Apr 2019
thelurker 26 Apr 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> I don't know who you are referring to. It's been eight years or so since I last used this forum.

And if we are lucky, another eight years before you use it again.

3
DDDD 29 Apr 2019
In reply to G_M123:

Incidentally, there was someone at Kilnsey yesterday climbing The Bulge using a Simond rope. He appeared quite happy taking falls onto it. It looked like his regular rope for working/redpointing routes.

1
88Dan 01 May 2019
In reply to DDDD:

Good for him. Considering how many people jumped on me after I said I don't like simond ropes, it would be interesting to know how many of those people use simond ropes, and how many people just jumped on me because they didn't agree with my comments. It also made me laugh when so many people recommended Beal ropes in the which first trad rope thread considering how many people slated me when I said I use Beal ropes. I have never understood people on forums. They agree with what you said but not how you said it so they react as if they don't agree with what you said. Nowt as queer as folk as they say.

11
jimtitt 02 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Butthurt?

2
In reply to G_M123:

Been using an 80m 10mm one for 3 days straight now, got mega twisted on the first day but that was probably user error. It's taken a few lobs and we are both alive. Handles fine, and not noticeably different from any other rope I've had. Mega good value! 

SGD 02 May 2019
In reply to G_M123:

Just to reiterate my post back at the start of the thread:

From a similar thread in May 18:

We have a Simond 30m as our indoor rope atm and so far so good (3 months of use) the sheath on 1st acquaintance appears quite rough and therefore the handling isn't as nice as a more expensive brand, you will notice it when it runs over your hand as you clip. Although it is still pretty slick through a standard bug and a grigri2. The flip side of this is that the rope is holding up to indoor abuse very well. So in summary very hard wearing work horse rope that lacks the finesse and handling qualities of other brands.

12m on....

We are still using the same rope as our indoor rope and it has held up well - THis week I've noticed its now starting to get a bit bitey in the belay plate but there is no noticeable movement of the sheath (i.e. when your rope starts to resemble a well feed snake as it enters the belay plate) or degradation in overall performance. It gets used between 1 and 2 times a week (sometimes 3) and is used to work/dog routes, top rope etc etc so it has taken many falls.

So in summary - very pleased.

We recently brought a Go-outdoors special (40m for £35! think its edelweiss) to replace the Simond rope as the price was silly but if I hadn't seen this offer I would have brought another Simond rope as our indoor workhorse.

jon 02 May 2019
In reply to SGD:

> We recently brought a Go-outdoors special (40m for £35! think its edelweiss)

Hmmm, Edelweiss = Beal

1
tjin 02 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> it would be interesting to know how many of those people use simond ropes, 

I had 3. My comments about it and Simond are above. 

d_b 02 May 2019
In reply to jon:

My experience of Edelweiss ropes is that they are only good for one or two days and then they are knackered.

To be fair I did kick a big rock off and destroy my own rope, but I'm 100% sure it wouldn't have happened with a proper branded Beal!

3
beardy mike 02 May 2019
In reply to jon:

But they are cheaper so definitely not worth considering because they will be RUBBISH.

1
88Dan 03 May 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

I never said they will be rubbish. I said that I had one which I hoped would be the bargain of my climbing career and well worth the reduced price tag, even if I only ever used it indoors. Sadly this wasn't the case and IIRC I sold it to a mate of mine who was just starting out. If it was in fact rubbish it would have gone straight in the bin instead of selling it to a friend. (I wait with baited breath for some smart arsed comment on that subject) I thought the fact that the sheath had a rough feel would be great, not to mention being so much easier to use and control when paying out rope or lowering a climber. Sadly because of rough sheath all it did was collect dirt very quickly despite using a rope bag with a sheet. The sheath also caused problems for my grigri which was a nightmare. The rope was too stiff plus it kinked and twisted like crazy. I have never had a Beal rope that has suffered with any of these problems, unless I do I will keep using them.

I am finding it rather funny how many people keep clicking dislike on my comments rather than actually saying they don't like something I have said. I wonder how many people would be so quick to click the dislike button if it showed a list of people who had clicked dislike. Considering how many people have said they use simond ropes, it seems everyone else on this thread who didn't like my comments wasn't jumping in to defend a brand they like or use, rather they decided to jump on the hate me bandwagon just for something to do. people need to get a grip, what kind of world would we live in if everyone liked the same thing?

12
88Dan 03 May 2019
In reply to jimtitt:

Not at all. Are you having a go at me because you like/use simond ropes and disagree with my comments, or are you just having a go at me for something to do?

Post edited at 16:43
3
Oceanrower 03 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> I wonder how many people would be so quick to click the dislike button if it showed a list of people who had clicked dislike. 

If it helps, me, for one...

1
beardy mike 03 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Oh for f*ck sake, I'm just openly trolling you now. Don't bite.

2
captain paranoia 03 May 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

He did suggest that everything in Decathlon is shite, though...

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/gear/decathlon_climbing_ropes-703166?v=1#x8975635

"even firefox knows what shite they are selling"

1
jimtitt 03 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

I´d have thought it was quite clear already why people are disagreeing with your position.

2
beardy mike 03 May 2019
In reply to captain paranoia:

Yeah we've already done it to death, I've even told him everybody is trolling him just to wind him up and yet on it rolls...

1
NaCl 03 May 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

And long may it continue. This thread is probably the most entertaining thing on the site right now. HOw many knots can one man tie himself in? Find out here.....

1
88Dan 03 May 2019
In reply to captain paranoia:

Firefox warned me decathlons website was dangerous. Their own brand stuff is shite. Nothing but mediocre shite for people who don't take their hobby seriously, or don't do it very often. Did anyone here ever use simond gear before they were bought by decathlon? Does anyone know what the quality was like before they started making gear just for decathlon?

17
88Dan 03 May 2019
In reply to jimtitt:

Yes, people are weird. Only a handful of people who have replied to this thread actually use simond ropes, either that or people are refusing to say they use simond ropes. So why are people going to such lengths to defend something they don't use and maybe don't even like themselves?

7
captain paranoia 03 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> Firefox warned me decathlons website was dangerous.

Firefox doesn't give me any such warnings.

> Their own brand stuff is shite. Nothing but mediocre shite for people who don't take their hobby seriously

Have you used it much? It's a vertically-integrated product range; some of the lower-end stuff is commensurate with the price, but the higher tier stuff, whilst still being much cheaper than named brands, is well made, from good materials (often the same as those used by other 'named brands'), and is designed well enough for the task in hand. Hence the regular recommendations here. If you want to pay three times the price for an equivalent product from a 'named brand', in the belief you're paying for a better product, fill your boots. I'll stick with using my judgement to assess the quality of products, rather than just using price or brand name.

> Did anyone here ever use simond gear before they were bought by decathlon?

Plenty of people did. Read the thread. Their Piranha axes were widely used.

88Dan 03 May 2019
In reply to captain paranoia:

At the time I wrote that post Firefox warned me decathlons website was dangerous.

I did buy and use a simond rope. To quote yourself, read the thread as I have mentioned this several times. The only other decathlon brand item I bought was a bow and a few arrows, simply because I fancied being Robin hood for a while and they only had their own brand of archery equipment in stock so it was that or nothing. I knew I wouldn't be taking it very seriously or taking part in archery very often so the equipment I bought from decathlon was fine for that. In other circumstances I have looked at decathlons own brand equipment but very quickly dismissed it and instead bought a brand I already know and trust. There is no supposed belief that I am buying a better product, I know I am buying a better product.

A little off topic but the bikes are a prime example. How many pro cyclists use b twin bikes? None, funny that isn't it. Yet another french company making cheap crap. Also how strange is it that the bikes made by a french company aren't used by anyone taking part in the biggest and most well known bike race in the world, the tour de france. even french people don't use the crap made in their own country so what does that tell you.

15
Alex Riley 03 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

I don't take climbing very seriously so I use Simond ropes....

;)

Post edited at 21:18
1
Presley Whippet 03 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Decathlon have provided pro tour teams bikes and very good they were too. 

NaCl 03 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Yeah Simond aren't  a proper brand at all, no serious climber would ever use them.

No history, no pedigree.

1948

First tubular carabiner.

1950

First ascent of Annapurna, first 8000er to be climbed.

1952

First axe with hammer and interchangeable picks – Magnone.

First ascent of Fitz Roy.

1953

First ascent of Everest – 8848m (Hillary & Tensing).

1966

First ascent of Huascaran – 6768m (Paragot, Seigneur, Jaccoux, Payot).

1970

First entirely metal ice axe – Metallic 720.

First ascent of the N couloir of the Drus – (Jager).

1971

First ascent of W pillar of Makalu – 8470m.

Mont Blanc – Grand Pilier d’Angle – N face – first direct (Cecchinel, Nominé).

1972

First 100% asymmetric rigid crampon – Makalu.

1974

Drus – central couloir on N face – first integral and first winter ascent (Cecchinel, Jager).

1975

First axe with hammer and curved pick – Chacal.

Grande Rocheuse – N face – new direct route (Gabarrou, Marin).

1977

First carabiner with monobloc gate – 3000.

Grandes Jorasses – first winter ascent of E face – (Marmier, Rudolf).

1982

Kangchenjunga – solo ascent of S-W face – (Beghin).

1983

Free ascent of the American direct on the Drus – (Renaud, Profit, Escoffier, Etienne).

1984

First crampons with tool-free adjustment – Jorasses.

Mont-Blanc – Intégrale de Peuterey – first winter and first solo ascent, 32 hours (Profit).

1985

N face of the Grandes Jorasses – first winter ascent in 13 hours – (Escoffié).

Everest – to summit and back in 22hrs 29mins (Batard).

1991

Christophe Profit & Pierre Beghin reach summit of K2 via NW ridge – FFME (French Rock Climbing and Mountaineering Federation) Cristal award 1991.

1992

Chantal Mauduit reaches summit of K2 without bottled oxygen – Cristal FFME award 1992.

1994

François Marsigny & Andy Parkin on Cerro Torre's 'Col de l'Espérance' – Piolet d’Or 1994.

1995

François Marsigny & Jean–Marc Clerc link series of routes in the Dolomites – FFME Cristal award 1995.

1996

Team of young climbers from FFME on Alaska’s Mt Wake – FFME Cristal award 1996.

2001

Valery Babanov solos Meru in India – Piolet d’Or 2001.

2007

First axe with titanium head – Metallic 820.

Repeat ascent of ‘No siesta’ on N face of the Grandes Jorasses (Seb Ratel/Stéphane Benoist and Damien Tomasi/Patrick Pessi/Basile Ferran and Romain Wagner/Pierre Labbre, 1000m, ED+, M7, 90°).

First skied descent of W face of Yanapaccha (Antoine Bletton, 5460m, 5.3, E2). Skied descent of SE face of Artesonraju (Antoine Bletton, 6015m, 5.5, E4) and S ridge of Chopicalqui (Antoine Bletton, 6354m, 5.4, E4).

Repeat ascent of ‘Gousseault-Desmaison’ (1st free ascent) on N face of Grandes Jorasses (Romain Wagner, 1100 m, ED+, F6b/M6/90°)

1st repeat ascent of Pilier de la Rééducation on N face of Ailefroide, with FFCAM Groupe Excellence. ED, V, 1100m

2011

First winter ascent of ‘Ecaille Epique’ on N face of Droites (Seb Ratel/Patrick Pessi/Rémy Sfilio, 1000m, ED+, M6, A2)

First traverse of the Darwin Cordillera by the GMHM, 30 days completely unaided

First onsight ascent of ‘Story about dancing dogs’ on Mt Poi, Kenya (Antoine Bletton, 600m, F7c+, ABO-)

First ascent of ‘Chauve qui peut’ on N face of Olan, with Pierre Labbre. ED+, V, F6c+/A1, 1100m.

2012

First ascent of ‘Théorème de la Peine’ on Latok 2 (7020m), Pakistan (Seb Ratel/Mathieu Maynadier/Antoine Bletton/Pierre Labbre, 2000m, ED-, M5, 90°)

First ascent of ‘Spicy Game’ on Kamet (7763m), India (Seb Ratel/Seb Bohin/Seb Moatti/Didier Jourdain, 2000m, ED-, 90°)

First ascent of ‘Le plaisir est dans la tente’ on Mt Daogu (5466m), China (Damien Tomasi/Jérôme Para, 700m, TD+)

‘Despertaferro’ and ‘Ksur u laina’ on Paroi d’Aragon, Montrebei (Romain Wagner and Charles Noirot, 500m, ABO-, F7b/A1)

First repeat of the ‘Directissime des Potes’, N face of Meije, with Max Bonniot. ED+, V, F6b/c/A2/F7c/M5, 1000m.

First ascent of ‘Coup de barre, j'Ecrins le pire’ on Barre des Ecrins, with Pierre Labbre and Max Bonniot. ED+, VI, F6b/M6/6, 1200m

I took the liberty of removing some of the less impressive achievements. You know - the kind of thing that a "serious" climber like yourself would probably just solo in your best "serious" branded clothing. 

 

AlanLittle 03 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

I did, during my very brief alpine & ice climbing career. The Chacal was the state of the art ice tool of the early 80s post-Terrordactyl generation. But of course  a climber of your obvious vast experience and knowledge of the industry would already be aware of that.

Off to Kalymnos tomorrow btw with my Simond rope that I decided was a better tool for the job than the Mammut I used there last year.

Post edited at 22:31
captain paranoia 03 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> I did buy and use a simond rope. 

You bought and briefly tried one product. Out of thousands. And on that basis, you think you're qualified to dismiss their entire product range as 'shite'? You really are a gullible idiot.

1
88Dan 03 May 2019
In reply to captain paranoia:

How many of their products have you bought used and tested oh none gullible genius?

Besides I didn't just buy and use one product in order to make my mind up. not that I should have to explain that to anyone.

Post edited at 22:51
11
In reply to 88Dan:

> A little off topic but the bikes are a prime example. How many pro cyclists use b twin bikes? None, funny that isn't it. Yet another french company making cheap crap.

I used to drive a Skoda Octavia. Then I read your post and realised that no F1 drivers drove Skodas.  My Octavia is now abandoned, crumpled into a wall - cheap crap that no-one who takes driving seriously would use.

1
88Dan 03 May 2019
In reply to NaCl:

Soloing several thousand feet of rock/ice in my serious branded clothing 40 odd years before I was born, I really am good. simond may well have been an independent climbing equipment manufacturer, for all we know their gear could have been the best in the world. Not so much now decathlon have bought them, a store we all know is well known for it's quality products.

11
captain paranoia 03 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> How many of their products have you bought used and tested

Plenty. Alongside products ranging from Aldi to Arc'teryx. I guess that wide experience might have had something to do with me being invited to be a reviewer...

88Dan 03 May 2019
In reply to Presley Whippet:

You mean the FDJ team who had clothing sponsored by decathlon in 2013?

5
88Dan 03 May 2019
In reply to captain paranoia:

How do you know I haven't tested plenty of products from many different manufacturers? Just because I only mentioned using one of simonds ropes you think that is the only product I have used.

6
88Dan 03 May 2019
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:

Good for you buddy, you are finally learning. did you find the dipstick in your Skoda? Look in the rear view mirror and you will see it

9
jimtitt 04 May 2019
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:

> I used to drive a Skoda Octavia. Then I read your post and realised that no F1 drivers drove Skodas.  My Octavia is now abandoned, crumpled into a wall - cheap crap that no-one who takes driving seriously would use.


You are too hasty to criticise a product based on a lack of knowledge  Skoda won the Czech Grand Prix in 1952 and briefly dabbled in modern F1 when they bought Prost Racing.

beardy mike 04 May 2019
In reply to jimtitt:

Besides, F1 is shit. WRC is where its at and they have some history with that. A mistake to write off a car based of F1 performance IMHO.

1
Oceanrower 04 May 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

Can't be shit. It's REALLY expensive. Only cheap things are shit.

TobyA 04 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> Yet another french company making cheap crap.

I'm undecided whether "88Dan" is an interesting performance art project or just one of the more eccentric members of our community who make life such a rich tapestry...

Dan - I was ski mountaineering in the Norwegian Arctic last week. We got to the summit of a peak called Storgalten a bit before a biggish French team who had two guides with them. Both were wearing it seemed solely Simond clothing and had Simond packs. Most of the clients they were looking after were wearing more expensive brands, but it was pretty obvious who were the better skiers. That day I was wearing my Simond softshell trousers rather than the Jöttnar shells I had been using earlier in the week, and it reminded me how great those softshells have been - I've skied-toured and climbed a lot in them over the last decade - I think they were about 30 quid on sale. Anyway, it was interesting that professionals who are out in the mountains day after day, week after week, picked very good value Simond gear.

I've used one of their ropes. It was fine - did the job it was meant to do. Nothing special, but what ropes are? It tends to only be after years of regular use that I start to decide which ropes I like (because they don't go soft or fluffy) and I've not used a Simond rope that much. I have had Beal ropes which I loved and lasted brilliantly, but then another Beal rope which went soft and didn't feel great quite quickly.

Post edited at 08:34
Presley Whippet 04 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Can't remember the year(s) but you were able to buy them in store at around half the price of a typical pro tour spec bike.

As for the brand snobbery, in my experience, cool brand gear may be 10% better than simond gear but it is often 2 or 3 times the price. 

I used a simond rope recently, it was fine and bright pink, which is a bonus. 

NaCl 04 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan: 

I've gotta ask - are you actually like this in real life? You're either deliberately being obtuse or some kind of idiot. This is genuinely like trying to debate with Donald Trump and call him on his b.s.

1
jimtitt 04 May 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

You drive a Renault and I claim my €5!

88Dan 04 May 2019
In reply to Presley Whippet:

I'll have to take your word for that. if decathlon or btwin had really provided bikes for pro/grand tour teams then you would have heard about it everywhere and they would continue to bang on about it today.

You have to be a real man to wear pink ;-)

3
88Dan 04 May 2019
In reply to NaCl:

I am when people try to tell me what I should like and what I shouldn't like. Or when people have a go at me for liking or not liking something that they like or don't like. We don't/won't all like or dislike the same thing and that's just the way it is. I don't see why that is so hard for people to understand.

4
planetmarshall 04 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> simond may well have been an independent climbing equipment manufacturer, for all we know their gear could have been the best in the world. 

So what you're saying is that it's possible for a brand that once made quality products, for their products to reduce in quality over time due to various circumstances? It would seem then a sensible strategy to not get too attached to brands and always judge a product on its merits.

> Beal all the way and nothing will ever change my mind

Oh.

88Dan 04 May 2019
In reply to planetmarshall:

That isn't the case with all brands but it can and does happen. It just so happens that the brands I use used to and still do make quality gear, which is why I still use them. Is that ok with the forum? Or should I switch from a brand that I know and trust to a brand I have never heard of or used before just to please you lot? I can't seem to win with you lot no matter what I say or do.

2
Zebdi 06 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Beal and quality? Oh yeah, I had two Boosters, each lasted less than two years. Never again.

d_b 06 May 2019
In reply to Zebdi:

Beal can not fail. Beal can only be failed.

88Dan 06 May 2019
In reply to Zebdi:

I had a pair of cobras, a flyer and two top gun II's, one of which I have just bought and a 10.5mm antipode static rope. None have ever failed or let me down and all were retired after about 8 years or so of climbing. The cobras lasted slightly longer as they were used slightly less than the single ropes.

They certainly lasted longer than the one and only simond rope I used for climbing. Maybe I got lucky with the Beal ropes I bought and you were just unlucky I don't know. All I know is I have never had a Beal rope let me down and until one does I will continue to use them.

4
d_b 06 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

The simond rope you immediately chopped up and used as a dog lead or another one?

My experience of Beal cobras was buying one to go with a mammut Genesis, then retiring it less than 2 years later while the mammut still looked brand new. Waste of money.

Don't get me started on ice lines.

Post edited at 20:30
1
NaCl 06 May 2019
In reply to d_b:

"The simond rope you immediately chopped up and used as a dog lead"

I was thinking this. The story keeps on changing. It's like evolution

1
beardy mike 06 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

To be fair, can you define failing? Because failing to me would suggest to me that you’re talking to us from beyond the grave.

1
d_b 06 May 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

Not necessarily beyond the grave but it's a story all climbers would have heard by now, so long as they aren't half arsed like John Arran that is.

1
88Dan 06 May 2019
In reply to NaCl:

The story hasn't changed, you have only read the bits you want to.

1
88Dan 06 May 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

I have never had to prematurely bin a Beal rope.

1
tjin 07 May 2019

My 70ish quid Beal rope was the second cheapest rope I ever bought and had the shortest lifespan.

But seriously people, this ***** is still going on? Just go climbing for f sakes. 

d_b 07 May 2019
In reply to tjin:

> But seriously people, this ***** is still going on? Just go climbing for f sakes.

I did.  It was a really good weekend.  Was a little bit surprised to find this still going when I got back TBH as bank holidays are usually reliable thread killers.

On the bad gear front I can report that the "central wales" guidebook is a bit rubbish as it only lasts one trip before being accidentally left at crags.  I bet people are going to pile on and claim user error though.

beardy mike 07 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Blimey, our definitions of failure are different.

Premature aging is to be fair, what Beal are known for as a main criticism. If you want a soft catch and a nice handling rope Beal are fantastic. The impact force is really low, the sheath is woven in such away to allow greater elongation and the core is twisted more to provide the extra stretch - none of that is condusive to longevity. It fits the experience I've had with Beal ropes. If you start looking through forums here you will find it also matches other peoples experiences - there's absolutely nothing wrong with Beal (or Edelweiss seeing as they are just rebranded Beal) but you should be aware of it's properties. Some of their workhorse ropes are manufactured more robustly for sure - the Cobra being a case in point. But it's simply not the case that you can just say Beal is all great - it's partly great. By comparison, I've mainly had Mammut Ropes which seem to last for ever and a day, including their skinny ropes under heavy use. My Serenity is still usable after 10-12 years - sure it's not been my main rope like it was to start with but it';s been fantastic and is still supple, doesn't knot and the only reason I use it less is because of it's age. I have a genesis which looks like it just came out of the packet. And a Supersafe 10mm which has also had 4 years of heavy use and other than having had to chop the end off due to an abrasion from a fall, it's looking in really good shape. My Lyon "Beals" were OK, but as I say my Ice Lines were terrible and lasted less than a year. One had a core shot, one had a serious sheath abrasion after top-roping for an afternoon and I can't remember what happened to the third, but again it was sheath related. They were damned expensive and just the worst ropes I've ever owned.

beardy mike 07 May 2019
In reply to tjin:

Oh come on - this is fun...

WaterMonkey 07 May 2019
In reply to beardy mike et al:

This thread is hilarious. A bunch of grown ups on the internet arguing with someone else on the internet because he said he doesn't like something.

1
DubyaJamesDubya 07 May 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

Ha ha, I was missing this thread!

DubyaJamesDubya 07 May 2019
In reply to d_b:

> I did.  It was a really good weekend.  Was a little bit surprised to find this still going when I got back TBH as bank holidays are usually reliable thread killers.

> On the bad gear front I can report that the "central wales" guidebook is a bit rubbish as it only lasts one trip before being accidentally left at crags.  I bet people are going to pile on and claim user error though.

A decathlon guide would have been so much better...

d_b 07 May 2019
In reply to WaterMonkey:

Where else* can you get a wall of poorly punctuated text from a one line driveby?  If I could be arsed with reading any of it then I would probably count it as making a profit.

*outside of a b***** thread.

88Dan 07 May 2019
In reply to WaterMonkey:

Tell me about it. I guess people just expect everyone else to like everything they like, and they don't like it when they find out otherwise.

1
Oceanrower 07 May 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

> doesn't knot

Each to their own but I'd call that a massive flaw in a climbing rope...

beardy mike 07 May 2019
In reply to WaterMonkey:

That's what the internet was made for wasn't it?

beardy mike 07 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Well I like some of what you like, especially a good argument.

jimtitt 07 May 2019
In reply to WaterMonkey:

> This thread is hilarious. A bunch of grown ups on the internet arguing with someone else on the internet because he said he doesn't like something.


But that's not what the OP said.

88Dan 08 May 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

What's the point? Lets just agree to disagree and put this thread to bed. I don't like simond ropes even though they are the best ropes on earth and always will be, and everyone else on the forum doesn't like Beal ropes because they are shit and always will be. Enough said end of thread.

2
d_b 08 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Here's the thing: Nobody cares if you like Simond ropes or not.

It was the fact free ranting and blustering that annoyed people, and the doubling down without giving any sensible reasons just painted a big target on you.

Try being polite next time.

88Dan 08 May 2019
In reply to d_b:

I shouldn't have to go in to detail to explain why I like or dislike something. I could write a book on why I use the gear I do and why I don't use certain brands, no one would bother reading all the reasons why I don't use particular brands of gear. All they would be interested in is what I use and what I don't use and forget all the crap in the middle. This point was proved above all else when I did go in to detail as to why I refuse to use a certain brands of gear and still no one cared or took any notice, Not that I actually want people to care, I am quite capable of caring for myself. Also, is there any real polite way to say you once used gear from a particular brand, you hated it and have never used it since or never will use it again?

Post edited at 15:38
8
andyman666999 08 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> I shouldn't have to go in to detail to explain why I like or dislike something.

why bother posting anything if you don’t qualify it  

>Also, is there any real polite way to say you once used gear from a particular brand, you hated it and have never used it since or never will use it again?

Yes there is you inarticulate twit  

Post edited at 18:15
2
Brown 08 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

I've disliked your comments because I both dislike them and can't be arsed to comment.

1
peppermill 09 May 2019
In reply to G_M123:

So, OP. 

Has this thread provided the answers you were looking for? ;p

88Dan 10 May 2019
In reply to andyman666999:

Going in to detail counts for nothing as I proved earlier in this thread. Also, I would watch how you speak to people if i were you.

Post edited at 16:05
2
beardy mike 10 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

Jeez louise, you still don't get it do you? You gave no detail about your statements until half way through the thread. THAT's what we're objecting to, not you loving Beal even if it was all a bit overzealous. That's it...

88Dan 10 May 2019
In reply to beardy mike:

Yes I do get it. But even after I went in to detail to explain why I hate simond ropes and will never use them again, nothing changed. so my detailed description of my hatred for simond ropes was pointless, regardless of what other brand I prefer.

2
andyman666999 10 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

> Going in to detail counts for nothing as I proved earlier in this thread.

I think you’ve proved nothing. Your opinion of why you don’t like the Simond ropes matters to me.  I have been wondering about buying one myself for some time now  

>Also, I would watch how you speak to people if i were you.

Your posts come across little better and if I were you I would stop taking the bait.  I wanted to see how many posts this thread could continue to attract by winding you up. 

88Dan 10 May 2019
In reply to andyman666999:

A quick google search will tell you all you need to know about simond ropes, or any other brand of rope you are interested in buying. Asking members of a forum for advice on gear is pointless as everyone who replies will only tell you what their favourite brand is, which is fine for them but might not be what you want or are looking for.

7
d_b 11 May 2019
In reply to 88Dan:

So why waste peoples time by saying anything at all?

BTW: Thinking a Firefox warning about certificate signing has anything at all to do with tyhe product was hilarious.  Proper point & laugh time every time you brought it up.

Post edited at 20:32

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