UKH

Hi,

I'm planing on doing some mixed stuff in the alps next month. Max of ED2, max of 3900m. Possibility of an overnight bivvi on a route. I own a pair of Nepal extremes.

1. Will these be warm enough?

2. Is it worth pairing them with Berghaus insulated yeti gaiters?

3. Do yeti gaiters even work with step-in crampons. I own an old pair of Grival G14 crampons with a metal bar at the front. So not sure how the bail at the front and back will fit with the sole groove full of gaiter.

4. I also own a pair of plastic double boots, which whilst fine for stomping up a high snowy hill in Nepal, I'm guessing are going to be hard to climb on rock as just so bulky? But am I wrong?

Thanks.

I've only dabbled in the alps but have done a fair bit at that altitude in winter elsewhere so my thoughts;

Single night maybe, but take a brush and a system to get the ice off them and keep them from freezing. Reproofing helps a bit. More than single night I'd really think about doubles, especially if you're doing north facing stuff.

See above. The problem is a) the Nepal's leather holds moisture and the gaiters hold it in, b) heat loss through the sole is a bigger issue and doubles or higher spec boots address this with insulated midsoles. Insulated Yetis will help from snow clogging the laces and a small amount with general warmth, but a short term solution I think.

They're meant to but a front basket is better. Grivel do an add-on one.

As in Vegas or similar? If in good condition (consider how old and their reputation for material failures) and comfortable they'd work. Many of the Alps hardest routes were done in them after all. Depends on how hard the climbing will be, though they'll be nicer for bivies.

The Nepals will be ok for the climbing, it's the practices of keeping them wearable that's the issue. All the questions I've asked too and answered by getting boots better suited to the task, the extra expense was made up for the first cold night out watching friends hack ice out their laces then stuff the cold boots into their sleeping bags with them. They were sometimes a hindrance in the morning, sorting cold boots when we could have been climbing. Per extra dollar I've got more good climbing in with less screwing about at bivies.

I've used Nepals with yeti type gaiters and G14s. I glued them on with the rand far enough up from the heel and toe grooves at front and rear. Not Alps in winter though so can't comment on your other questions.

Having tried to climb Lagarde Couloir on Les Droites in April in Phantom Guides with Primaloft socks, I got very cold toes so my thoughts would very much be no they won't be warm enough...

Andy K has a good few blog posts on the subject. I'd look at things like Phantom 6000 and Sportiva G2 SM.

On a warm day on a short sunny route single boots work fine. Get caught in bad weather, the day is colder than expected, you climb ninto the night or something else derails plans and there's a serious risk of frostbite...

Modern double boots are definitely the way to go for proper winter alpine climbing, as opposed to cragging in the Alps in winter.

Will we be able to travel to France next month? 
 

cy . 

For what its worth, if there is a bivi involved I wouldn’t even contemplate sticking with a single boot. I have worn single boots for most of my icefall climbing over the last few years mainly owing to being too tight to shell out for newer double boots. On the colder days I’ve not been able to feel my feet for most of the day, and its distinctly unpleasant. If I was sleeping on a route I’d want something that warms up fast in the morning... leather ain’t that...

I'm going to Switzerland. But the same question is in my mind too

Nepal Extremes - no way, they have hardly any insulation and if they get wet through your toes will be screwed. Have a friend who got pretty bad frost nip on an overnight bivvy after his old Baturas got wet. For single day stuff I find Phantom Techs or ski boots fine. For overnight I’d go for doubles. 

I asked the same question of a French guide years ago. His reply:

”the warmest”

Have you used the Arc'teryx AR crux in Alpine winter? If so, any good? 

An ED2 mixed route on a 3900m peak in Switzerland in January you say?

In March these lads used Spatniks or Phantom Guides (but elsewhere recommend considering Phantom 6000s): https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/features/north_face_of_the_eiger_-_1938...

I’ve got a pair, they’re very warm, and very weather proof. Both the inner and outer boots have a Goretex liner. The soles on my pair wore out very fast, I got them resoled with a thicker vibram sole, which has lasted better. 
 

I remembered you had a pair from a sole wear discussion, you were far more assertive with Arc'teryx than me and I think you got another pair out of them.

I haven't used mine outside Scotland. Although they were originally intended for winter Alps events have got in the way. I am hoping they will get out of the way by March or next year anyway. 

Where did you get yours resoled? If I can get that done I will use up the last of the original sole in the next few weeks rather than save it for a potential March trip.

Hi Roger,

I got my pair resoled by feet first in Chesterfield. I’d get them resoled sooner rather than later as once the plastic beneath the rubber is damaged they’ll be beyond repair. This was the problem with my original pair.

I’ve had less luck getting a delaminated Alpha SV, with broken zips, repaired or replaced. 
 

Tom

How are you getting to the routes? Walking? Perhaps skis and then climbing in ski boots would be worth considerin . Thee are some very light ski boots that are warm and not at all bad to climb in. 

Thanks 

No but met someone at a crag recently and they said they fell apart rather quickly. 

I've not climbed in the Alps in winter but I did use to live and climb in Finland where the winters are long and significantly colder than Scotland, even if the ice climbs are diddy. And I used to go up to Arctic Norway (north of Finland) to ice climb longer routes there. I have used Nepal Extremes with a super gaiter fitter (Terra Nova in my case, but I've had Yetis as well - much of a muchness). And the yetis do help but not as much as you might presume. Much of your heat loss from your feet goes through the sole - consider in particular that the sole of the boot is contact with relatively large amounts of metal - your crampons. Certain crampon designs are worse in this respect. Yeti gaiters do help keep any snow out of your boots and stop snow catching, melting slightly and freezing around the laces. We never bivied on routes, but did camp roadside and gear freezing up that we couldn't dry out in the car moving between areas is a real hassle. I reckon I used Nepal Extremes with yetis down to about -12 without too much problem on multipitch routes.

Just to add to the consensus, I wouldn't be venturing onto that sort of climbing environment with Nepal Extremes. When I used to do similar around Chamonix a good few year ago, I wore Garmont  ski touring boots for climbing in. Worked well. We got up routes. Feet avoided being very cold. 

Needed footwear you could ski in, because snow shoeing would be too slow to get in and out. We tended to avoid January though because of lower temps, higher snowfall, and greater avalanche risk. I did try winter alpinism in January once, but just ended up skiing instead.  

Ski boots are all the rage for technical climbing  https://www.ukclimbing.com/user/profile.php?id=52344#&gid=1&pid=8

Nice and warm and surprisingly good for technical climbing. Not great for moving fast over moderate terrain though.