UKH

Anyone got any opinions? Or prior experience?

They seem like a useful, if slightly terrifying, skill to learn...

In reply to Pete Houghton:

V threads are the way to go

In reply to Pete Houghton:

I've seen this in books but don't know anyone who's actually tried it. Lots to go wrong I think.

In reply to Wild Isle:

Obviously, given the choice... but let's just say that the same strong winds that forced a retreat halfway up this route have ripped the bundle of tat from my hands whilst about to thread it... and my ropes are too fat, wet, and cold to thread the hole direct...

In reply to DaveHK:


Do you mean "anyone who's tried it and survived"?

In reply to Pete Houghton:

You're probably about to leave £50-£100 halfway up a route. Come back when it's melted with a metal detector and collect them from the base.

In reply to Pete Houghton:

In a borderline dangerous situation like that would you not be willing to just sacrifice a few screws?

In reply to Pete Houghton:

Up your skills and carry adequate amounts of tat.

In reply to Simon4:


I seem to remember Mick Fowler writing about retreating on retrieved ice-screws. Can't remember where it was, however.

In reply to Removed UserBwox:

Actually I did know about that, was being a bit hyperbolic.

It was with Pat Littlejohn, who can be reasonably presumed to know what he is doing, though I never did find out how he got on with his client on the Frontier Ridge after sharing the Forche bivi with us, though presumably cruised it.

I think it is for ordinary mortals that the "do you feel lucky, punk?" aspect comes in, and I certainly would not feel lucky enough. But then I normally carry a highly sophisticated Abolokov hook on Alpine routes, crafted by the most skilled engineers and made from the finest materials - also known as a cut-up and twisted old coat-hanger, weights nothing and sits in the back of my pack.

In reply to Simon4:
A russia friend I climbed with said that the retriveable icescrews is their to-go method. That said, he did say that he liked the no fuss approach of V-threads and tat.

In reply to HeMa:
It is curious that the supposed country of origin of the Abolokov should prefer the retrievable ice-screw approach, but it is quite a while since I had much to do with any Russian climbers.

Sounds a bit too much like Russian roulette rather than Russian ice-protection for my taste.

In reply to Pete Houghton:

It's always struck me as one of those theoretically viable things that only those with a point to prove would try. Besides, if you've got enough tat to wrap around a screw, you've got enough for a thread. If pushed, I'd leave a short sling/long QD and a krab behind (thread one end only of sling, krab as a 'block' at the other) after a bit of a bounce test.

In reply to nniff:
The russians used sling, the same they used when going up.

So no tat needed.

In reply to Pete Houghton:

I've used these though never in anger. Always as demos. They never failed to work.

However... you are on just one screw - though I'm sure it'd be theoretically possible to somehow make it work with two though that'd increase the chances it wouldn't work by a huge factor. And secondly, if it doesn't then you're stuffed as your rope would be stuck. This was of course an old trick from long before threads became accepted as the best practice.

In reply to jon:


And you would neither be able to pull it down, nor dare to prussik up it as you would not trust the anchor enough for that.

In reply to Simon4:

Exactly.

In reply to Pete Houghton:

I'm sure I saw an illustration of an even more ludicrous technique with ice axes- piolet ejection or similar...

In reply to freeheel47:

Oh yes, I remember that. Fielding an ice screw on the end of a rope is one thing... but a couple off ice axes is quite another!

In reply to freeheel47:

yes, a way of abseiling from a t-slot anchor which allows for the recovery of the ice-axe by using another ice axe....

In reply to Simon4:

For what it is worth... was taught this technique by Pat himself. I can testify that it works. It is just another skill to learn and potentially a very useful one. Managed eight consecutive abseils with one screw. Would Abalakovs been safer? Possibly... but if you are short of gear it is always good to be able leverage what you have.

In reply to Wild Isle:



I have to say, I was more interested in starting a discussion about getting out of potential worst-case scenarios than having a little passive-aggressive snarkiness sent my way. I always have a pocket full of tat, thanks, and I'm also aware of the fact that things go wrong and it's best to have a few extra cards up your sleeve when they do.

Thanks for the enlightening back and forth, all!

I've also seen the instructions for those retrievable axe anchors, they look even less fun...