UKH

Me and Tony The Blade are off to Ben Nevis in a fortnight. Plan is to B&B Friday and Saturday nights (any recommendations will be appreciated!) and do some basic stuff (ice axe arrest, walking in crampons etc) on the Saturday. Then on the Sunday we want to go high up to some of the gullies and do a few Grade1/11 routes. Then we thought, rather than walking back down to come back up the following day, we'd dig in overnight. As we're planning on doing this whilst traversing Mont Blanc this May, we thought it'd be a good idea to get in some practice now. So... question is, where would you dig a snow hole?

Thanks for (thus far) invaluable advice!

In reply to Harry The Owl:
Not enough snow on Ben Nevis to dig a snowhole methinks. The snowline is above the CIC hut and I can't see that it has banked up anywhere...
You could dig an "earthhole"...

In reply to Harry The Owl:

Dunno about the Ben but was on Creag Meagaidh on Saturday, there are 2 snowholes at the Window, one that could sleep at least 4 and one 6 in comfort. Very professionally finished. Good effort to whoever dug them...

In reply to Harry The Owl:
Was up there on Saturday, somebody started a hole on the left hand side of Tower Ridge (in Observatory gully)
about 200 metres from the CIC
there seemed enought snow as it was quite banked out, however they had seemingly abandoned it after tunneling in about 1 metre (didnt look like it was ice so could be a possibility!)

In reply to Carl Taylor:

I started hole in rh bank at bottom of Observatory gully just at bottom of tower. Plenty of snow banks to dig in in gullies, and I wanted to confirm shovels not needed. Snow in gullies all pretty high up perhaps over 4000 ft.

Neve very hard and thick and took 10 mins to cut thro with my axe. Easy to scrape out inside of hole using adze end.

In reply to Harry The Owl:

Hmmm, a fortnight's the Rocktalk Clachaig meet...you might ask around to see whether any of the chalet-renters have spare beds (my chalet's full, unfortunately).

In reply to Harry The Owl: I would probably advize against snow holeing on the ben if your novices, avalanche and all that, best bet go elsewhere less dangerous,
ps mont blanc ...may..novices mmm

In reply to Harry The Owl: I have a vague memory of a boulder howff at the base of Carn dearg, just below torro/centurion consiting of a large leaning block agianst the face. I might be mistaken though, and you would want to get confirmation from another source before you relied on this. Possibly not the ideal spot for winter either but maybe you could find sport there especially if you're on for harder mixed lines. All the best - Andy.

In reply to Anonymous: Dont know why I've come up as anonymous tonight, perhaps entered site by different route??. Anyway I am normally i.d ed as "Andrew Ogilvie" on the ukclimbing forum. Andy.

In reply to Anonymous: As usual, some excellent and helpful responses. Given that there is now tons of snow, and may well be a fair bit by the time next weekend comes, and given that me and me mate can go anywhere at all, is the Ben the best bet? I've kinda got fixated on doing The ledge, seeing how we find it, and then going on from there. But we can go anywhere... any other suggestions????

In reply to Harry The Owl: Its definately got loads in teh grades your looking at, just be careful, the Ben has some avalanche prone gullys, watch about around the castle for one.

Id stick with the ben, Also include CMD arete if you have time, its only a walk really but on a clear day its great.

Cheers

In reply to Harry The Owl: Sorry - the tons of snow have not reached Ben Nevis - heaviest snow falls have been well north of Great Glen and NE Cairngorms. Check Ben Nevis webcam and you will see this. Drying up through the weekend and settled for most of next week

In reply to ian mclelland: It's fairly dumping it down at cairngorm just now.....looks like they've got alot of new snow.

In reply to ian mclelland: Thanks for weather intel. So.. if there remains little snow on the Ben, but there's tons elsewhere, where would you recommend going? We want to do Grade 2, ideally. Good long routes.

In reply to Harry The Owl:
Climbing conditions on Nevis are good - see Alan Kimber's website for helpful info. There has simply been little new snow this week.

In reply to Anonymous:

Well Harry the Owl might find it much easier to snowhole on well consolidated banked snow on the Ben (using axes) rather than shovelling holes in powder up in the Cairngorms.

Thats apart from the high risk of avalanche on the easier gullies after fresh snow.

Now in a few days time when its consolidated.....)

In reply to OldManOfTheHills: Okay... maybe I am thick, or maybe irony does not translate well across a modem, but... are you aying go to The Ben or go the the Cairngorms???? I think you are saying the former, but not entirely sure.

In reply to Harry The Owl:

well it sounds like you'll have a good time wherever you go. looking at how things are, there's lots of fresh snow in the cairngorms, so you can dig around in the white stuff plenty there, but if it's very powdery snow holes might not be great - although if it's windblown they might be fine. there's hardly any new snow on ben nevis, so you'll have to find some old snowbanks for snow holing.
having said all that, it sounds like you're keen to do some longish, easyish routes as well as digging holes. the long routes in the 'gorms all have long walk-ins which would be murderous in the fresh snow. the ben probably has everything you could want for a first trip and it's a very impressive place. ledge route is very straightforward and as long as there isn't too much fresh snow the easy gullies should remain safe - check the avalanche forecasts. all in all quite an alpine experience - sounds like LOTS of people have been enjoying themselves up there in the last fortnight.
have fun, wish I was going up.

In reply to Nyctea scandiaca: Thanks a bunch! Your post sounds incredibly positive - and yeah, pretty much decided, we'll go to the Ben and do The Ledge route and whatever we fancy.

Thanks for the feedback.

Harry

In reply to Harry The Owl:

Sorry not trying to be obscure or ironic, just being inarticulate. Was meaning to tentatively reccomend the Ben for near future, until Caingorm powder consolidates. However a week is a long time in British winter, so you may need to recheck conditions later in the week, with people who are still up there.

In reply to Harry The Owl:
Plenty of positive replies... God I'm so excited!!!

In reply to OldManOfTheHills: Cheers OldMan... actually, I'm sure it was just me being thick, but there you go. We've actually booked a b&b in Fort William for the first night and are going up on the hills with that fella Kimble. Will advise all how we've gotten on.

Cheers
Owl

In reply to Harry The Owl:
dont its far too cold

In reply to Harry The Owl: I have a question for you lot. When snow holing, apart from a good bag and mat, what else should you be wearing or sleeping on?

In reply to Comber: Actually, in spite of us banging on for weeks about how we were definitely going to snow hole.... we didn't. Mainly because we were so stoaked and pumped after Saturday and Sunday on the Ben and Aonoch More respectively, we did the only truly sensible thing and came down for a beer and mountaineers pie at the Nevis bar.

BTW... is it normal for a guide to suggest you do a twenty foot ice pitch, unroped, over about a 400 foot drop when the first time you'd held an axe or wore crampons was the previous day?????? FU**inG AWESOME!

In reply to Harry The Owl:

guides suggestion sounds a bit dodgy, but depends on grade of short ice route and whether you would have really rolled all the way down 400ft if you slipped. I guess he must have felt confident in your new found skills. Good on you.


Glad you enjoyed it. (another addict joins our cheery fold)

In reply to OldManOfTheHills: No... we would not have rolled all way down hill, as at the foot of the ice pitch, there was a gaping hole, much like the jaws of hell, which finished somewhere under the ice approx. 50ft under. Three of the lads bottled it (quite sensibly), I simply went up past the point of no return, asked for a sling on a crab to be thrown down (to which the reply was basically f**k off) and continued in a state of mild shock and delerium to safety at the top of the pitch. I asked the guide about it later - he said he'd never doubted any of our abilities, but the only real way to learn to truly ice climb is to solo, and thus never contemplate falling off. I must say - it worked for me. I am buzzing like I've never buzzed before and here, three days later, back at work, I feel like I have both lost something and gained something. A bit like virginity, I guess...

In reply to Harry The Owl:
>>but the only real way to learn to truly ice climb is to solo, and thus never contemplate falling off

TOTAL P*SH!!!!!!!!!!!!

In reply to Mr JWinters: Yeah... kind of agree, actually! Still, it worked for me and has given me the thrill of my entire FCUKing LIFE!