Snowdon Conditions this weekend

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 upupup 08 Dec 2022

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone out there has got eyes on the Trinity Face on Snowdon? Trying to work out if the gullies will be in condition this weekend!

23
 PaulJepson 08 Dec 2022
In reply to upupup:

There hasn't been any snow really, has there? It takes a long time and some freeze/thaw for turf to freeze properly. 

 Rory Shaw 08 Dec 2022
In reply to upupup:

There has been more snow overnight to about 400 m.

Very unlikely that any gullies will be in nick. The best sport is likely to be on rocky scrambles. 

 LakesWinter 08 Dec 2022
In reply to upupup:

To get good conditions on that sort of snow-ice gully you need heavy snowfall followed by thaw freeze cycles.  This generally means a series of gentle, short thaws are way better than a 4 day turbo from the south west that melts most of the snow. At the moment we have early season conditions developing, which means mixed once the turf has properly frozen and rocky ridges.

Water ice will form if it stays cold enough for long enough but this takes longer at the start of the season than in february as the ground and ground water are warmer.

 TobyA 08 Dec 2022
In reply to upupup:

Are you asking this to just upset me?

Your profile makes it look like you've done both UK winter and alpine climbing so I'm surprised you are thinking about gullies. I reckon various things might be in condition this weekend in North Wales, but after a few cold days with almost no snow - gullies will be the last thing.

I wrote the following last autumn on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/345833125602252/posts/1790071817845035/ but if you don't like FB (fair enough! But actually it does allow you see loads of pics of the mountain areas in close to real time as people post in the big groups) I'll paste in the text below:

"I've seen the first post asking about a gully, and along with someone mixing up "windchill" with the actual temperature (they are not the same!!!), Christmas can't be far away. I'm still a bit bemused by where the actual idea came from that easy winter climbing normally, or even only, means gullies. It doesn't really make much sense, particularly for UK winter climbers south of Scotland, and even more so when winters appear to be in a long term trend of being less reliably cold and snowy. For UK winter climbs and scrambles, be that grade I or grade VI, gullies are often the last to come into decent condition.

Generally the first type of route to come into condition are snowed-up rock routes that don't rely on frozen turf, be that Striding Edge at grade I or Savage Slit at V,6. Next will be mixed routes that have plenty of rock but also have frozen turf on them. Last weekend I did Crib Lem (I/II) which is an easy route a bit like that (I'm sure you can easily do it without using any turf placements although last weekend the turf was excellent and made it fun swinging an axe again). More technical turfy mixed routes, say Viking Buttress (IV,5) do rely completely on the turf being frozen and shouldn't be done when it's not. We'll leave to one side icy-mixed as that is getting quite geeky, but only at this point is it likely that gullies will come into good condition.

If you feel the ground beneath the snow in a gully, it's not really in condition. If you need to swing your tools into turf and they come out muddy, it's not in condition. If you get mud on your crampons, it's not in condition. Why does that matter? Well it wouldn't if it wasn't for the fact that lots of Welsh and English mountain gullies contain rare plants that often aren't found anywhere else. There is loads of info and even videos on the BMC website explaining that issue. As there are separate Scottish groups playing a similar role to this one, I'll use English and Welsh examples: basically when the first snows hit, you'll have much better time doing say the Striding/Swiral Edge circuit on Helvellyn than trying to do Gully 2 on the Red Tarn Face itself. Likewise, in Snowdonia Crib Goch covered in snow will be brilliant, when the scree and rubble of Parsley Fern Gully covered in some snow won't be. Parsley Fern and Gully 2 are great when full of snow, that has had time to firm up or even start to get icy and so on - and then there is zero chance of you thwacking and hurt some super-rare little plant that doesn't grow anywhere else! 

(edit 1: an article I wrote about winter climbing in England and Wales a few years ago for UKC is here: https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/features/chasing_the_very_bloody_epheme... lots of tips and tactics hopefully.

edit 2: the link to the BMC North Wales white guide is here https://www.thebmc.co.uk/north-wales-white-guide it will give you a pdf version)."

Post edited at 09:58
1
 CantClimbTom 08 Dec 2022
In reply to upupup:

In my time I've climbed/scrambled a few gullies here and there (no crampons or tools) with a thin crust of ice and water actively flowing behind it, while flailing my big-boy hex-on-rope overhead to try to crack the crust off and getting ice water pour down the inside of my sleeves every time I reached above me.

If the cold weather continues, we might have a few gullies "in nick" for that style of climbing in a week or so.

I've retired from that climbing style, but something for you to look forward to?

Post edited at 10:08
3
 Alex Riley 08 Dec 2022
In reply to CantClimbTom:

Please don't climb on trinity face in those conditions, there are lots of ecologically sensitive plants which are easily damaged when snow cover is thin.

 mmd 08 Dec 2022
In reply to upupup:

Mixed routes that rely on rock could well be the ideal choice .  Crags are well rimed up. Forget any idea of gullies are everyone else has said

 TobyA 08 Dec 2022
In reply to mmd:

>  Crags are well rimed up.

This suggests you have been out for a walk today and seen them? If so, can I ask, at what level do they look wintery from? Just asking purely out intellectual curiosity - I don't have any particular cliff with a NE aspect starting at about 750 mtrs in mind at all...


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