UKH

Hello! In 2010 I did a climb and down to a unplanned bivy ended up with a a minor frostbite on my toe. Nothing major, no colour changing but they ended up numb for a few weeks. Since them every time I go ice climbing I ended up with my toe getting numb and sometimes it last for almost a month!

I read a lot about it and it seems there’s nothing that can be done and once the damage is done you just have to live with it but i wonder if there are others out there who experience something similar and if there’s something that can be done to

1- reduce the time the numbness persist
2- even avoiding this in the future by somehow improving blood flow, etc…

Already work on getting warmer boots but it seems this happens regardless..

Thoughts and advice always appreciated!

cheers,

Murilo

 Make sure your boots aren't too small. Sometimes too many socks makes things worse as your toes need to move around to help blood flow. 

It may still improve with time.

A friend had a similar problem with a couple of finger tips after an unplanned bivy. He seemed to avoid subsequent problems by keeping his hands warm all the time, even though it meant he was often wearing mittens when everyone else was fine in gloves or wearing gloves when we didn't.

If it was frostbite, as opposed to frostnip, then it could take several months for the tissues to heal.

And even then, you may well find that there is a permanent suceptablity to numbness and cold toes. You may also get times - especially if your toes get cold - when you suffer painful spasms too.

Keep your feet as warm as possible when you're out, and even more crucially, keep them dry.

It's 30 years since I had pretty bad frostbite, and I still have to be very careful when out in cold conditions.

Yep, I get a numb big toe midway through the winter season which can  take days to weeks to rewarm. Haven’t worried about it too much so long as it hasn’t started to spread! 

Perhaps if you have certain cold spots in your boots you can specifically target that area? 

I got frost nip in my fingers sometime around the mid-1990s through not listening when I Mum told me to wear gloves if I was going out on my bike in the snow.  It has got better over time but my right thumb in particular still goes numb when I get cold hands 25 years later.  It does get sore but is more of an annoyance than anything else.

I would recommend trying not to get cold in the first place - although of course this isn't always possible.  For feet, make sure your socks aren't making your boots too tight and that the lacing across the instep isn't too tight.  Gaiters also make a difference to how warm my feet stay.  I also find that if my core is warm my extremities stay warmer, so think about that too - although of course you don't want to get too sweaty if you are out in winter.  Otherwise, try to re-warm as soon as you can afterwards, and do it slowly rather than fast.  I find re-warming my hands with warm (but not hot) water works really well - just under a tap if I am going home, or by putting warm water in my nalgene and using it as a hot water bottle if I am camping.

I've found that if, day to day away from the crag, I keep my feet warm they seem to deal better with climbing days. I had frostnip about 5 years ago and this winter I have had less numb toes than in the past and I honestly think it's because my blood supply doesn't seem to be 'used to' being shut off to my feet. In the past I would wander about the house with numb toes, cycle all winter with numb toes, and not worry about it. This year I bought thick slippers and changes my bike footwear and I've had much better circulation on climbs.

I get this as well. It's not a cold injury. Do you think yours is cold related, or more to do with boot fit/toe injury (impact etc)?

I've apparently got early stages hallux rigidus in one of my big toes, and that same toe goes numb. It's still numb today after climbing two days at the weekend. The coldest my feet got was in my sleeping bag, and that wasn't even cool on the 'cold' scale. The foot with that toe is also bigger than the other foot, so I think there is a possibility of it getting more abuse from the boots than the other toe. Sound familiar?

Most likely cold related. Had the same boots for years and the toe thing has only started recently. They are a full size bigger than my regular shoe size btw. 

I’m putting it down to harder routes (in relative terms) meaning longer spells on belays etc. 

Apologies if this isn't new to you, but it's very handy if you can get winter boots that allow you to adjust the tension on the upper and lower laces separately. That way you can have the lower section quite loose to allow your toes plenty of movement but the upper section reasonably tight for support when climbing. I've found that making sure I do that has helped with regard to a similar problem. (That, and the passage of time.)

Thank you all for the ideas and suggestions. I am getting a new pair of warmer boots and will also pay attention to the lacing to make sure blood flow is good enough. I suspect it might be a mix of blood flow and cold that keeps making this to happen over and over again.

Fingers crossed

Already chatted with Murilo but thought I'd post here to add to the conversation and give a bump. 

I got grade 4 frostbite in a few fingers nearly 13 years ago now. Lost a few digits.  The circulation was pretty poor in the remaining extremities but it improved over the years. In the early days there were a few occasions when I needed to stop and get the circulation going. Still not perfect now but I just need to be a bit more careful than probably most people. I used to have really slow capillary refill but now it's normal. I also used to reduced sensation and increased susceptibility to cold but that reduced with time. My big toes were very mildly affected but the only remnant I have are extra thick nails.

I used to be a bit obsessed with gloves but now I would say I use pretty gloves like BD Punishers. For me keeping the whole body warm was an equally good way of keeping the hands and feet warm. A lot of people, including myself, seem to experience cold problems in hands/feet after being stood around at belays for too long and I think that stems from general coldness rather than just affecting the extremities. Sufficient belay layers has probably been the biggest help. That and doing more leading  

I don't have any direct experience but a friend who was ticking off the seven summits used a pair of small battery-powered heating pads in his boots on Everest and said they were pretty effective at avoiding any sign of cold feet... Not sure where he got them or whether he built them himself but very basic and lightweight with the battery pack strapped under his gaiters just above his boots... May be worth thinking about if the problem persists??

I agree with Big Lee and the others that if it is frost bite/nip related, it will eventually get a bit better.  20+ years ago I was in Antarctica and went outside nearly every day for a year in all conditions (for certain science experiments).  My face and nose got hammered as often I wouldn't completely dress up for a quick dash between buildings/vehicles.  For years afterwards my face/nose was really sensitive to cold.  Not helped by moving to Scotland and spending most winter weekends in the hills.  Eventually, though, this susceptibility has -- subjectively -- reduced.  Or is it toughened older flesh being more of an insulator?  But, basically some bodily injuries take a LONG time to recover or adapt.