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front bail popping off on petzl lynx

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 mff513 31 Jan 2017
hi i have recently bought a pair of petzl lynx the latest model with the white heel bail, the issues are with the front wire bail my boots asolo alta via have shallow welts and the petzl bail doesnt have much purchase on the shallow welt so much so i can pop the front wire bail off using only my fingers. is this apparent on any crampons/boots
 top cat 31 Jan 2017
In reply to mff513:

Not good. Try a front bail from another company...............
 Andy Nisbet 31 Jan 2017
In reply to mff513:

Sounds like you're fitting a technical crampon to a non-technical boot. May just not work.
 pec 31 Jan 2017
In reply to mff513:

Don't Petzl Lynx crampons come with 2 types of front bail, the metal one for a C3 full step in and a plastic one for a C2 semi step in crampon? If so, it would be safer to use the plastic bail until/if you find an alternative bail which fits your boots better.
OP mff513 31 Jan 2017
In reply to top cat:

i know grivel g20 bails fit like a dream as the welt is shallow but really wide which lends itself better to grivels bails rather than petzls almost pointy bails.
 JonLongshanks 31 Jan 2017
In reply to mff513:

I have some Lynx, this actually happened a couple of times to me on a route, not good...

The shape of the wire bail just doesn't seem to fit well at all. It's well fitted to the rest of boot.

Now using the plastic bail thingy, much more secure. Easier to get on as well when your boots are all muddy and icey.

J
OP mff513 31 Jan 2017
In reply to pec:

i might aswell stick with g12s if thats the case i bought them for more technical mountaineering and mild ice so i wanted the narrow profile of the wire bail
 thlcr1 31 Jan 2017
In reply to Andy Nisbet:

> Sounds like you're fitting a technical crampon to a non-technical boot. May just not work.

The alta via is a b3 boot designed for step in crampons, should work so clearly something about the petal bail.

Lee
OP mff513 31 Jan 2017
In reply to Andy Nisbet:

its almost a comically bad fit they fit every other technical crampon going as long as it doesnt have a pointy petzl bail the more rounded bails fit better, i know they are a technical boot as they have a huge rear welt and are super stiff plus have a flexible ankle but i think theyve done it to get your toes closer to the front of the boot for rock which has backfired a little
 Andy Nisbet 31 Jan 2017
In reply to mff513:

Fair enough. I was guessing because I always buy the alternative toe fitting (leverlock?) which doesn't rely on a welt. Partly for your reason but also when the boot becomes so old that I won't get it resoled, then you can still wear the crampons with a worn welt.
 Pay Attention 31 Jan 2017
In reply to mff513:

Have you tried adjusting the heel wheel thingie? Maybe it won't help retain the front bail....
I've found it clamped the crampons on so hard at the heel that I needed help to get the crampons off.
OP mff513 31 Jan 2017
In reply to Pay Attention:

The new model of petzl crampons don't have a wheel
 Rob_Morris1996 01 Feb 2017
In reply to mff513:

I've not got the problem of the front wire bale popping off, however, my Petzl Sarkens don't make as much contact with the toe welt of my Sportiva Baturas as I'd like. Still feels bomber but it's still in the back of my mind, you know.

Anyone had any experience of fitting a BD toe bail on the new Petzl pons? Want to know if it will be secure.
 CurlyStevo 01 Feb 2017
In reply to Rob_Morris1996:

the BD bails are thicker gauge than the grivel ones and won't fit in to many crampons. I 'think' the petzl bails are more like the grivel ones than the bd ones in gauge. You could try a G14/G12 bail. Grivel changed these in recent years to give better front point protrusion so trying an only models bail may not be the same.
OP mff513 01 Feb 2017
In reply to CurlyStevo:

looks like im gonna have to get the micrometre and measure the diametre of the bails and the width of the bails as i know grivel do a 85mm and a 75mm plus one for the g20 which is 80mm but i might have to file down the crimped ends down.
 CurlyStevo 01 Feb 2017
In reply to mff513:
fair enough you might find in practice they are a bit more interchangeable than that, on my old G14's I can get Rambo bails to fit for example (and they do look a little wider). The BD ones are quite a bit wider and stronger, you can't bend them at all with pliers.
Post edited at 15:35
 Rob_Morris1996 01 Feb 2017
In reply to mff513:

Would it be possible to share your findings?

Also does it make any difference that the grivel front wire bails usually have the strap going to them? Whereas the Petzl strap just goes around the ankle?
 CurlyStevo 01 Feb 2017
In reply to mff513:

I've seen online that some petzl crampons do take the bad bails by the way. Also g20 bail works on the g12 and g14.
 CurlyStevo 02 Feb 2017
In reply to CurlyStevo:

apologies should say "some petzl crampons do take the bd bails by the way"
OP mff513 02 Feb 2017
In reply to Rob_Morris1996:

Yeah I'll share the results, I seen a picture of darts with bd narrow wire bails on them and they look like a alright fit but very tight
 Michael Gordon 02 Feb 2017
In reply to mff513:

Is the Lynx front bail the same as the darts?
 CurlyStevo 02 Feb 2017
In reply to Michael Gordon:

Needle sports say the Petzl flexible bail is compatible with Dart, Dartwin, Irvis, Vasak, Sarken and Lynx. So there seems a reasonable chance the BD bail will fit both

http://www.needlesports.com/51691/products/petzl-fil-flex-front-bail-pair-t...
OP mff513 07 Feb 2017
In reply to Rob_Morris1996:

Hey rob just been into my local Ellis Brigham and they are gonna rip every bail off every crampon and try them I'm feeling confident I'm gonna find a good one, I'll send you before and and after pics
 Rob_Morris1996 07 Feb 2017
In reply to mff513:

Awesome cheers! I've ordered a pair of BD regular (they do narrow, reg and wide) front bails from Needle Sports to see how they work out. Will let you know if you want, as they should arrive in the next few days.

Want to go to emails as to stop the thread going on forever? My email is robert-morris@live.co.uk
Cheers!
OP mff513 18 Feb 2017
In reply to Rob_Morris1996:

Hey I found one that fitted I found the bd bails a little funny id look at the grivel g20 bails they fitted the best
 drsdave 19 Feb 2017
In reply to mff513:

Is this problem the case for the previous Lynx model, do they have a different bail design? If so change the new bail for the old bail design.
In reply to mff513:

Had similar probs with my front bail coming off my Nepal Extremes twice recently. May have been down to me not tightening the strap enough or the strap working loose as I was kicking in to soft snow gullies but it hasn't been a problem before. I was grateful I wasn't on a full on ice climb at the time. The front boot welts seem to be ok so I'll have to do some investigating
 CurlyStevo 24 Feb 2017
In reply to Cuillin Calling:

the nepal front welts are particularly shallow so without good conformity of the bail to the boot then its more likely to happen than with many other boots.
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