UKH

I'm running the Welsh 3000s (50km, 4000m ascent) and I'm looking for some new shoes for the event. I have been using my HOKA Tectons for a while, but they're worn out now and I'm looking to buy something more substantial. I've been looking at Topo Athletic's Ultraventure and various Inov-8s, I've got relatively wide feet and I'm a Womens size 5.5 - any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

I'm always wary of recommending running shoes because peoples' feet and expectation are so different, but for what it's worth...

It depends somewhat on the route you choose: You may encounter steep grass/bogs or on the other hand lots of steep(ish) rock. Neither are well suited to 'modern' ultra/trail shoes which are designed for flatter/smoother ground. I would certainly look for something more suited to steep slopes (grass or rock, possibly contouring) rather than just something suited to long distances.

Last time I did it I wore Walshes PBs (the good original ones with no removable insole) and they were fine but probably not ideal (minimal sole cushioning).

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

I've been impressed with Dynafit's trail shoes.  Been wearing the Alpine for over a year now and they're still going strong.  They do some Ultra-focused shoes as well, that look like they're be well at home in the mountains.

https://lets-run.co.uk/products/dynafit-ultra-100-womens-trail-running-shoe...

I don't know that website btw, it's just the one that came up in a quick search.

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

Tricky one, they really need to fit your feet and be the amount of cushioning that suits you. I used X-Talon 212s, fine on the day but too narrow for long distance for me. It might have been this event or another but I've definitely lost a big toe doing longer stuff!

I get on well with the Ultra 260 these days - wider and appreciate a bit more cushioning now I'm old and slow. With Inov8s at least you should get a useful clue on width.

You won't be too off-piste so I wouldn't worry too much about having massive studs.

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

For the last run I did with similar dimensions I used the Inov-8 X-Talon Ultra 260 V2. It's a completely different type of shoe to your Hokas though - much more aggressive lugs (which you need if you're going up and down boggy/muddy hillsides) and less cushioning (not a bad thing). 

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

Another thing to consider: What do mean by 'running the W3ks'? For most people large chunks are not actually runnable (too steep up/down, too exposed/technical...) and it's more about fast walking than running. Which suggests a different shoe compromise than for someone who really can run over the Crib Goch pinnacles or up/down Pen yr Ole Wen. Only you know.

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

Guess it depends on the day. If its dry I'm a big fan of Saucony Peregrines.

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

With the usual caveats about wearing whatever fits you properly etc, I ran it a few years ago and chose Inov8 Trail roc's which are made for the rockier end of the spectrum, which most of the 3000's route consists of. I was super comfy and didnt ever feel the need for deeper lugs, the soggier bits of the Carneddau are generally flatter and any steeper grass or dirt is generally short lived. Go for comfort over rockier ground rather than technical ultra distance shoes or deep lugged fell shoes.

In reply to james.slater:

Ha ha! Just goes to show how difficult it is to advise on this subject! I would say exactly the opposite: The W3k is not long (by ultra trail standards), but a lost footing in a lot of places will be 'unfortunate', so I'd go for grip & stability over comfort. Each their own!

In reply to Marek:

Ha, indeed, I suspect if you asked 50 different people you would get 50 different answers! When I did the route it was my longest distance at the time, so 'not long by ultra trail standards' would have given me cold comfort at 5am at Pen Y Pass!

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

I used a pair of Topo shoes (I forget the exact model) on the Lairig Ghru race a couple of years ago. Theye were good - like you, I have wide feet and at no point did my feet feel constrained. I think your run is considerably gnarlier than the Larig Ghru (longer, more ascent and rockier), but if I were doing the Welsh 3000s, I'd be happy to use the Topos. 

The other brand I've found particularly good for wide feet is Altra. Most of their shoes are zero drop, so may not suit, although I've not found this to be a problem off-road. 

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

As others have said, the most important thing is to get something that fits properly and feels good.

FWIW I have always run in Hoka Speed Goats, including  a number of very rough long trails (eg Mont Blanc 90, TdG). The Speed Goats are excellent - the Vibram sole is tough enough for the terrain, and the grip is excellent on wet rock. If you are primarily on bog then maybe Walsh's (or go the whole hog by taking whatever fits best, and getting LSR to fit a fell sole onto it).

I don't recommend the Hoka Challenger Air's - they are too light, and my experience has been that the soles were never robust enough, and kept falling apart. 

In reply to gooberman-hill:

Actually that doesn't work very well - fell shoe are not defined by just a knobbly sole, but also by their stability on rough ground and that comes from (a) a low heel drop and (b, more importantly) from minimal overhang (underhang?) round the sole of the foot. Ideally the 'footprint' of the shoe should be no bigger than the footprint of the bare foot. Hokas - in particular - seem to be the antithesis of this design.

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

ANy chance to show the classic:  youtube.com/watch?v=ilHqrDDWMVk&

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

I have recently tried some Salomon S/Lab Genesis shoes and run with these in the Lakes. They are by far the nicest shoe for rocky routes I have used, with good underfoot protection and good grip. They have a moderate lug and are not too trippy. There is very good protection on the inside of the foot. 

Of course the choice of shoes are very individualistic, but these have been the first shoe I have been enthusiastic about for some time, so I thought worth a mention.

In reply to greg_may_:

Suspect he’d have been fine in Dunlop Green Flash 😁

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

I did the w3k in Saucony peregrines as well. The none water proof ones. I’m onto about my 4th pair now I really like them. 

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

Funnily enough I have just gone through this process myself - prepping for a Welsh 3k attempt this summer and my Scotts were not grippy enough on the rock so I looked around and settled on the Inov8 Roclite Ultra Graphene shoes. I chose these as they have a wide toebox, are incredibly grippy and are cushioned enough for the route without too much compromise on technicality.

So far I have run 100 miles in them, longest training run being about 3 hours. They have performed really well both on wet rock and in mud but I do have to use anti chafing cream on my toes and under arch to prevent rubbing (wasn't a problem in the Scotts so the fit / comfort isn't as good I think)

If they fit your feet then they are definitely worth a try. I loved my Scotts more but can't recommend them for the Welsh 3k due to the amount of rock on the route.

What they really need to make is a Scott upper with an Inov8 sole......

In reply to Marek:

I beg to differ. I have had 3 pair of Hokas resoled with a fell sole. I ran Fellsman in one pair. the 1st half the UTMB in a second, and I ran 3 sections of TdG in another pair. You need to wear them round town for a week or so to wear down the sole lugs a bit. But once you have done that, they are wonderful on wet mountain trails.

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

Topo Athletic do two other models that are grippier - I think terraventure and mountain racer or something like that. The ultra venture don’t have a very deep tread. I’ve been trail running in them though and they are very comfortable on me and seem very robust. They also do e vent  versions. 

In reply to steveriley:

This seems not to have raised the alarm I'd expect 

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

You can check shoes from Vivobarefoot. I have been wearing them for a while now and they are really comfortable for durable.

https://www.legendfootwear.co.uk/collections/vivobarefoot/

In reply to nufkin:

...nail

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

I love the La Sportiva Mutants for running in the Dales and the Lakes, best grip on wet rock that I've ever found in a shoe. Just ordered a set of Cyklons to try out as the one downside of the Mutants is their stack height. They are a normal width fit so not sure how well they would work for your foot shape.

I had a pair of Dynafit Felines for a year, I like their shoes but they were quite narrow, so getting a good fit in these might be difficult. I got a pair of Scott Supertracs for a crazy deal in the summer, they are an okay shoe but the quality is nothing like the La Sportiva shoes and they have marginally less grip on wet rock however, for mud they are brilliant.

I really don't like Inov-8 shoes, they just never seem to fit my foot well at all but if you are after a wide fit they could work well for you and the fact you can go to one of their shops and try them all on is a massive plus. I just sent a pair of Scarpa Kalibras back for the same reason but they might be quite a good alternative for a wider fitting mutant. 

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

I've got quite wide feet (and a bunion) and find Inov8 Roclites really comfortable.  The only thing is they do tend to wear out quite quickly.

I did get a pair of Altra Lone Peak on the recommendation that they are wide fitting but find that my foot moves around in them too much and I don't feel confident in my footing on technical ground plus the zero drop kills my calves.

Finding comfortable running shoes is a total nightmare!! 

In reply to adamburns944:

I plan on getting a pair but I wouldn't be recommending anyone to do any significant sessions in them until you've had a long time to adapt to them.

I'm thinking next year maybe I'll have made all the adaptations so probably not suitable for the OP.

In reply to emma7027:

I wouldn't give up on your altras altogether. It's probably wrecking your calves because you've made adaptations to a higher heel. Adaptations that may be throwing other things out of whack.

In your position I would just do my shorter runs in the altras to condition and strengthen my calves.

In reply to emma7027:

I've got wide feet and tight calves and I do most of my fell running and hill walking in Scott Supertracs. They're comfy enough, grippy enough (though not in proper gloopy mud) and, most importantly, usually on sale at a massive discount on sportsshoes. I rarely get more than 250 miles out of shoes, whatever brand or model, before I rip the uppers so being able to buy new pairs for £50 is a huge plus!

In reply to climbingpixie:

I got a pair of Scott Kinabalu Ultra RC for £40 on sale a couple of months ago. They're the best shoes I've ever run in and they just seem to suit me perfectly. Never worn Scott before.

I've cautiously built up to the point where I might consider wearing them for an upcoming 50 miler. Unbelievable value...sadly now that I've come to love them, they no longer have my size at that ridiculous price so I can't get another pair! Bah!

In reply to Beccakatesmith:

I might be tempted to go with what you know, especially if they suit. Having said that, I dont know Hoka's. A lot of mixed underfoot terrain on the Welsh 3000's so a compromise between aggressive and smooth grip. I thought Inov8 were great when they first appeared, but soon found them to be too aggressive as they rolled around my feet on steep contouring. Walsh's have been around for a while, perhaps with good reason. Difficult to advise really 

In reply to Beccakatesmith: Obviously this is absolutely down to individual taste - there are plenty of shoes I absolutely hate and will not, cannot wear mentioned in this thread. 

But the OP mentioned more substantial than the Tectons... what does substantial mean in this context. 

For reference I like Zinal's , and if I wanted more substantial I'd go to Torrents. My zinals are getting a bit thrashed so it will either be those or Nnormal's next.

In reply to tomsan91:

I've been pleased with Mutants on things like The Fellsman and Dales Skyline. Good grip and comfy to the end. I have two pairs, one half a size larger for longer / colder outings (allowing thicker socks). (And have an old pair with worn tread and a bit of stitching to the uppers which are good on harder packed stuff).

In reply to mountainbagger:

I think the Supertracs are better/comfier than the Kinabalus so maybe worth seeing if those are available. Otherwise you'll just have to wait for this year's model to start being sold off at a discount. I think I bought 3 pairs of them last time they had a good deal! I have stupidly awkward feet so if I find something I like I tend to hoard in case they're discontinued (case in point - my stack of Scarpa Maestros in the cupboard).

In reply to Marek:

I wore Walsh’s for over 10 years, as they were the only really good fell running shoes. Competed in fell races, KIMM etc all over the UK and France. My knees are now wrecked at 73y.o. Now it’s Hokas, for walking only I might add. The recent trans Africa run was wearing Hokas

In reply to climbingpixie:

Thanks I might give them a try!  They were singing the praises of Scott shoes on a podcast I was listening to the other day too.