UKH

My partner and I are looking to do the Cuillin Traverse this week, over 2 days with a bivvy. We are competent scramblers and boulderers, but have no roped experience yet. Does anybody know of a route (or guide book) that offers a way of doing most of it but bypassing the grade 3 scrambles? And would it still be a nice route?
 

Any info much appreciated. 

https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/destinations/cuillin_traverse_taking_th...

Ah not seen this - many thanks! 

No problem  I had a vague memory of that route being publicised but couldn't remember where. There might be a book too. 

Adrian runs the All Things Cuillin FB group and is a very helpful guy.

There is a Cicerone guide for the ridge which Adrian published a few years ago, on a recent CC meet everyone who used the guide said it was really good.

I'm not sure it covers the non climbing route though, I couldn't find my copy to check. 

It's worth pointing out that even the easier route suggested above has obligatory sections of mod and diff and lots and lots of grade 3 scrambling. If you'd normally rope up for a grade 3 scramble you will probably be out of your depth.

I just leafed through my copy and it lists the TD Gap as Severe with a grade 3 alternative so it does cover bypasses for the hard bits - OP just needs to be aware that even some of those are grade 3. 

Wether it's still an enjoyable route is completely personal. I would say a safe traverse is probably better and more fun than something desperate. 

Yep, it does, somewhere near the back it discusses things like the "Cuillin Ridge Lite" and a few others.

I soloed the ridge and carried a rope just for the abseils, soloed the climbs. Avoiding the abseils isn't at all practical. You have to solo or lead TD Gap, In Pin, King's Chimney and Basteir Tooth, hardest grade polished VD. If you avoid these then the diversions aesthetically feel like you've not done the ridge because you miss significant sections or features such as Inn Pin. You can't avoid exposed scrambling at grade 3 for lengthy sections, that's obligatory and you have to climb at least moderate and reverse it to do In Pin and Basteir Tooth without a rope. I would probably wait until you are more confident with hard scrambling unroped and can abseil / climb VD.

It depends on what you want out of it. 2 days up on the ridge would be an amazing experience even without the climbing bits.

You didn't ask but I really enjoyed Simon Ingram's book 'The Black Ridge: Amongst the Cuillin of Skye', which has his own traverse of the ridge (with guide) at the centre of the book.  It's a fascinating and readable book and I would recommend it to anyone going to Skye, on the ridge or just looking for a good outdoorsy read.

I've done roughly what you're describing but with some grade 3 scrambles and the In Pin. The upside of doing this is that you get to say that you've travelled from one end of the ridge to the other, but ultimately I found plenty of it unfulfilling with a lot of scree slogging, which became particularly arduous due to tiredness, whereas I've found that I can perk up and get second winds when encountering differing terrain along the ridge, having completed multiple traverses in multiple styles. Anyway, whatever you decide, have a good one.

Funnily enough, I was looking at that book yesterday in a bookshop and decided against buying it. With such a glowing recommendation, I may have to reconsider. 

Only one thought. How do you propose getting down from the Inn Pin?

Reverse the short side. I have done this (and the TD gap abseil) in practise but it is probably quicker to abseil, and since I would not solo Naismith's route we had to carry a short rope anyway...

The short side??

You must be joking. For someone who's a grade 3 scrambler, with no rock climbing experience? To reverse the short side of the In Pin I would think would be at least Severe. To reverse the long side would be a much safer option (though with terrifying exposure for a relative beginner).

I should have noted the question was addressed to the OP - I merely said what I would do in the circumstance. Apologies to all, and don't try this at home...

The long side (Mod.?) isn't difficult to reverse, given no adverse conditions. I've done it 3 or 4 times.

I have reversed it with a guy who is a scrambler and no rope. I had to talk him down a move at a time, me climbing just below him. There were over a dozen faffing about on the summit at the time so I wasn't waiting all day for them. Obviously the consequences of a slip are not to be contemplated, certainly not going back for a second attempt!

From memory there is only one stretchy move on sketchy hand/footholds on the descent, but care is required for what is a relatively easy scramble in ascent  for the experienced mountaineer. Then again if there is any rain (highly probably on Skye) and the rock greasy it's a whole different ball game!

https://imgcdn.ukc2.com/i/29135?fm=webp&time=1598387062&dpr=1&s...

Personally, to return to the original poster, a short confidence rope of 30mts+ and/or some abseil gear would remove this concern.

There were reports of adverse conditions when I was on Skye a couple of months ago...someone had managed to do a crap halfway up. An impressive feat of logistics and balance, if a touch antisocial.

A vast amount of the ridge is grade 1, but to travel across several km of this solo you really need to have climbing experience or lots and lots of grade 2/3 mileage.

Unless you've got lots of route knowledge or jedi like route finding skills you WILL go off route into harder terrain and end up retreating or down climbing. It's just the nature of the ridge (which is often very unridge like, but really quite broad and broken with multiple line choices).

Rather than trying to traverse it avoiding sections, most people aim to have a grade or three in the bank. 

Go there, just do two hill days, maybe head as far as An Dorus(skip the In Pinn summit). Learn the lines, get a feel for the ridge without traverse pressure, it's an amazing place. 

The main issue without a rope is not avoiding the three rock climbs, but not being able to abseil. There are three abseil stations on the middle section over Bidean Druim nan Rahm. You can outflank them if you are familiar with the Ridge, but I'd say a prerequisite for a ridge traverse is the ability to abseil.

If you have previously done none of the Ridge, then route finding may add a lot of time. 

Finally, doing the Ridge without a stash ups the ante. Water is hard to come by and you'll be carrying significant packs.

The Ridge is a great experience, but you could consider your first visit as a chance to reccy the harder bits and practise your abseiling! And figure out what a full traverse entails.

Great answer above.

Why does everyone go out there first time trying to do the entire ridge?

I've passed so many people along there trying that who are having such a miserable time. And then they bail. We really underestimated this, they usually say!

Go explore a couple of rounds/sections. So much fun and no car logistics.

I used to always carry a rope up there -- in case. But now I know every handhold so well, it depends which sections I'm doing and the weather.

Have fun.

No idea, because it's far to travel for many? No one goes to North Wales and thinks they'll do the 14 peaks on their first visit! 

But yeah, there are so many individually good circular walks, scrambles and features to explore, you can visit multiple times and feel no need that you have to do the ridge in a single push. 

Oh to be 20 or 30 years younger with the Cuillin still unknown and yet to explore ...

Yeah, so good to have the Cuillin Ridge under your belt so you can simply go and enjoy a nice day out.

Edit: In retrospect too many repeating words for my liking.

Strong onsight ethics?

For most people I think it’s mostly an availability question I think. Sadly, I don’t live near the ridge (at all). It’s been on my wish list for years but haven’t done it yet, basically because I would have to dedicate a significant amount of vacation time to it. I know it would be smart to do it in parts before doing the whole thing, but this would mean even more time. Time the fickle weather of Skye would probably not grant me.

I therefore fully understand people whose reasoning is somewhat like, ‘well I can do alpine D so I should be able to reasonably do the Cuillin at once’ 

Because it's an obvious challenge, I suppose. I did first attempt and would have been disappointed not to.

Depends how much you've got in hand both in terms of grade and probably more importantly, fitness.

Yeah. I suppose I can now see that view. Like rock climbing ethics.

Guess I just love being in the mountains. Different reasons for being there.

True, although it would become obvious pretty quickly if it wasn't going to work and there are plenty of opt outs, so still fun.

I did the ridge onsight, when the guide book description basically consisted of a paragraph.  It was fantastic, with the sense of the unknown, feel of exploration and constant uncertainty and excitement of what was to come.  Being in awe of the situation, which was not dulled by previous familiarity, and feeling of achievement at the end, not having had a peek first.

Once you recce you can never recreate. It’s for the individual to decide how they want to tackle.  But I’m very glad of the pure approach I took all those years ago. 

Many days probably weeks have been spent since all over the Cuillin.

You have to be careful of survivorship bias. It turned out that you were capable of the Ridge onsight. But, for every inexperienced climber who succeeds first time, there may be dozens or hundreds who fail.  Did you do it without a rope? As the OP is proposing.

I don't think anyone is saying it's easy on sight, not least because of the weather.  The point is if you try and it works, great, but no real loss if it doesn't happen.  However, if you do lots of reccying first, it will never be as quite as satisfying, even though it's still a big challenge.

Of course for many it's a major effort to get there.....I don't have a car and use train from London, coach, bus and hitching. Windows of good weather can be short and rare.Those are additional reasons for wanting to do it first time. You're right one may lose the satisfaction of an "onsight" by doing recces. For me I'd prefer recces to a using a guide satisfaction wise, though I'm sure a guide would maximise the chances of success as well as safety.

I'm into my seventies but still dream of completing it. I got as far as Bidein DNR (no pun intended) but bad weather set in. However even on my short trips I've had some of my best mountain days in UK without doing the main ridge.....Clach Glas--Blaven, Dubh Slabs, Red Cuillin.

Again, I think that depends on your abilities. If someone needs to do a lot of reccying to complete the ridge then that shouldn't detract from their satisfaction. In fact they might feel even more satisfied at having put the work in and achieved it. 

This is the kind of non sequitur I have real difficulty responding to. How that relates to my post is beyond me.

Mountain rescue call out? Accident? Mountaineering is fundamentally different from many other activities in that it carries a risk of serious injury or death. You can't pretend that being out of your depth on the Cuillin ridge entails no risk.

I tried to do the whole thing first go, and failed. Personally I'm just more psyched for it than ever now, but that's how my brain works YMMV obviously. The main problem is the time needed, we were there 2 weeks and only got 3 days good weather. I can't really justify trying again until I'm on more than 5 weeks a year holiday unfortunately 

I've loved every single day I've spent up on the ridge bar one (my first on Skye) sodden outing in unending heavy rain in a group with the Lochcarron Mountaineering Club in the mid 80s where the fellowship was better than the being "out there".

Each experience was beyond price and there isn't any way a single "pure" experience would outweigh the purity of the sum of all of those days spent up there, many exploring unknown territory alone and some in thick mist.  I can't wait to be back up there when time allows.  I've been alone through BnD quite a few times and I'd hate to miss it for the sake of ticking off the ridge ropeless.

But for people who want to tick off something for the sake of "pure ethics" it may be different.  I love the place and being up there in the thick of it whether on the Inn Pinn, Bnd, Sgurr nan Gillean or wherever.  I had the "pure thrill" of discovering much of it on my own when I did so.  The fact that it was not all in a single traverse pleases me because I had time "to be there" even when route finding and personal outcome where not to be taken for granted rather than just overcoming one obstacle over another in a given time window.  Alone up there the safe outcome is never guaranteed.

Perhaps the purity of succeeding on a first attempt is for one mind type, my own way and understanding of purity is for another mind type.

I got the impression from "You  have to be careful of survivorship bias" that you thought people were under rating it

Of course not but that's the case whether attempting the whole thing or a part of it. Since it's easily escapable, there isn't much difference between the two - perhaps fatigue if people don't pull out when they should.

Failing on something does not mean you have got out of your depth. Just a matter of knowing when to bail.

Hypothesis: being out of your depth on the Cuillin Ridge entails risk.

Suggested refutation of this hypothesis:

Hmm? The logical consistency of that argument escapes me, I'm sorry to say!

I did try it as a single day push on first visit,  some how and I've never to this day understood how I was geographically challenged descending after Sgùrr a Ghreadaidh(in cloud), it was probably further back to Glenbrittle than to the Slig. However i was climbing well, happy at VS4c/5a in walking boots and mega fit, so I wasn't risking life and limb, just navigational embarrassment. 

You seemed to assume in you earlier reply at 14.02 that failing implied being out of your depth.