UKH

Question for the hive mind: I am looking for a new pair of hardshell trousers for winter climbing and walking to replace some ageing Spray way goretex salopettes I currently use.

The features wishlist are:

Venting zips on the thighs (much less faff than full length zips)

Internal snow gaitors 

Goretex (Pro ideally as it does seem to breath better)

Crampon patches 

Not black (not a priority but I'm just bored of black kecks)

No bib (my salopettes end up quite sweaty around the midriff)

Somewhere south of £250 would be ace (as I'll need some petrol money left over to go and use them)

There are some contenders in the price range that hit most of the points (ME Karakorum, Berghaus Mountain Seeker, Rab Khangri) but none I've found that hit all.

For reference, I'm about 180cm and 87kg and a medium in most things.

Any good options / deals I've missed?

Thanks in advance!

Similar height and weight to you and ME Karakorum used to work really well for me in a large (to fit thighs in my case) used them happily for years.  My goto now for winter though is the paramo mountain pant - if nothing else it takes away the shell/no shell decisions!  Worth a look if you get on with paramo!

Cheers,

Stu 

This season, I'm sporting the Jottnar Vanir LT troos. I couldn't afford them new (£400!) but I got them secondhand on here for a song, might be worth keeping an eye out on the usual sites.

Neoshell rather than Goretex and 7/8 length zips, which I like for venting. Crampon patches, gaiters, no bib. Only used once in anger but they seem great, not as rigid as other shells I've used and stood up to a wild day in North Wales before Christmas with no bother.

I'm 175 and about 80kg and a medium is good on me.

Are you sure they are neoshell? They changed fabrics about 3 or 4 years ago. The new versions are brilliant, I was going to suggest them on this thread except they're not Goretex. https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/clothing/waterproofs/jottnar_odin_shell+van...

I was wearing my original Neoshell Jottnars last weekend in miserable thawing conditions - plus rain then sleet then snow, then back to rain as I went down. They definitely leaked. I don't remember them doing it when they were newer https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/clothing/waterproofs/jottnar_bergelmir_jack... but they do now. I believe not being waterproof enough was one of the reasons Jottnar changed fabrics.

Thanks for that. I have ME kinesis trousers as a mid layer so the Karakorum would layer over well, and cyclist thighs so size recommendation a good shout too.

Can you vent them at the thighs easily?

These are on my list as they do seem to have all the features on the list. I just need to find a pair for less than £400 now!

North of 250, but have the exact features you want, a huge range of sizes and arent black.

If you're 180 the tall would probably fit perfectly.

https://www.theepicentre.co.uk/item/Arcteryx/Beta-AR-Pant-Mens/XNC?utm_sour...

Definitely neoshell. First impressions are very favourable, the fabric seems really tough and yet flexible, good cut, and I was bone dry after a day that featured blowing snow, sleet, hail and wading through some deep fresh drifts. No rain though... 

If your original pair are from 2014 then perhaps a loss of waterproofness in full-on conditions isn't surprising? 

The Karakorums have a full length zip, so you'd have to either unzip from the top or bottom to vent. They're a wide cut in the legs though, which may be an advantage if you have big legs, although I found them far too flappy, and changed to the Tupilaks which are a significantly neater cut.

Got them originally in late 2013, so 9 years ago. I haven't used them much in the last 3 winters since I reviewed the new yellow non-neoshell ones.

At the risk of derailing the thread slightly, what's your experience of the longevity of the typical hardshell materials? You're a man that has a lot of gear pass through his wardrobe.

I know it'll be dependent on how much hammer they take and so on, but do you have any general impressions? 

It's a while and a couple of designs since I owned a pair but the had full length zips so you had to unzip from the top, with press studs to keep the breeks together at the top end.

Cheers,

Stu

Cheers. That's what it looks like in the current pics. Shame, as I find that a huge pain (my current ones did this until I fitted new zip pulls for the top)

I'll scratch them off the list.

They look decent. Cheers.

Time to start saving then!

I have (work) a pair of the Arcteryx Beta AR. Wonderful construction, huge range of sizes and bombproof - in fact everything you asked for. BUT. I find the lack of full length zip a complete PITA. The lower zips are so short you'll not get them over a pair of slippers, let alone big mountain boots, so they're on all day.

Have you looked at Euro brands? Salewa, VauDe, Mammut etc?  Don't discount full length zips either, my VauDe walking hardshell trousers have them and they can be opened 'top down' or 'bottom up'. There's a clip that holds the waist together if you open them 'top down'.