UKH

Outdoor equipment firm sold

An outdoor pursuit equipment firm has been sold within 24 hours of it going into receivership.

Karrimor is one of the UK's leading companies in the design, supply and retail of this type of equipment.

It employs 60 people at its headquarters in Clayton-le-Moors and another 190 in retail outlets across the country.

Corporate rescue and recovery firm Begbies Traynor was appointed administrative receiver and has since sold most of the business as a going concern to Lonsdale Sports.

In reply to Anonymous:
Really sad news, one of the few companies I really respect and am loyal to. Last year I took in an 18 yr old Jaguar 6 to be repaired - not only were the repairs free, but they didn't even charge me for the postage. Maybe they should have done.

In reply to Chris the Tall:

True, my old 'Hot30' few years ago the snow gaiter stitching was falling apart restitched that patched up the crampons holes in it and stiched my Union Jack back on.

Good company, however, they had noticably gone down in quality and i thnk their branching out into clothing seriusly affected them.

RIP

In reply to Chris the Tall: Damn. I leave Begbies and they get Karrimor as a job! Could have sorted myself a lifetimes supply of gear!

Only joking.

At least it's a going concern sale. Didn't Karrimor buy out the old YHA shops last yoer out of Receivership? You have to feel sorry for the staff.

In reply to richard bradley @ work:

Is a sad affair!! 'the great british mountain company'

I think whoever owns them now will do what BMW did with mini,

Just bought a new Cougar sac for 60 squids, 50% of RRP.

I felt sad taking advantage but know Ive got a product Ill use for ages.

In reply to Chris the Tall:

Had the same experience with my much abused Hot Ice ( bought circa 1986). They didn't bat an eye, just repaired it for free & no postage.

Real shame to see them go.

Are Lonsdale are going to continue to manufacture karrimor gear? It's not clear from the news reports I've read what they intend to do.
And does anybody know any (former) karrimor employees? I'd like to write a piece on it and I'm looking for interviews.

Thanks!

In reply to chris_s:

I used to live in Accington (nr where there factory is/was)

They had an old assembly plant in the town, when it closed I found enough bits left in skips etc to make some good rucksacks etc.

In reply to Anonymous: Yes, certainly is a shame, but lots of people taking advantage. Just visited the Accrington shop, loads of stuff, all (everything) 50% off. Car park was so full (and it's not small) you couldn't get in. Amazing bargains on stuff you don't usually get massive reductions on - Cougars, Jaguars, great boots, Gore-tex waterproofs - the lot.

It must have quite a serious affect on the other outdoor retailers also, with market getting swamped with a major retailers gear.

In reply to john H:

excellent!

I got married in clayton-le-moors just last year. It's not a very affluent area and I wonder if all the hq staff are being made redundant - karrimor must be a relatively large employer for the area.

In reply to Anonymous:
I'd be tempted to drive over there myself but since I already have 5 karrimor rucsacs I think I'll leave it.

In reply to Chris the Tall:

Didn't they just take over the YHA Store on Wardour St? It's shutting down now.

In reply to Jon Jones:

Is all the stuff in the YHA store on Wardour Street half price? Including non Karrimor stuff?

Sad to hear about thise. I've got a Karrimore rucksack that, I've had for about ten years, and it's still good. Just out of intest what will be happening to the KIMM?

In reply to Anonymous: The problem with Karrimor is that they went down the cheap labour route and ended up being about as British as Chairman Mao, sadly I believe that this affected quality and it was noted.
Still quite sad though ,I do suspect however that the branding will continue .
P.

In reply to Adam Lincoln: yes, all stock half price in all stores still open, brighton , london, etc,
i think it could have a horrible knock on effect to the trade, as to wether karrimor continues, lonsdale(soccer sport) are not exactly quality producers of product, maybe they will turn to milletts type quality, who knows

In reply to Chris the Tall:
Last year I took in an 18 yr old Jaguar 6 to be repaired - not only were the repairs free, but they didn't even charge me for the postage

errr that's prob why they're going bust....
the big us firms wouldn't do that...

In reply to Allan Thomson:

I guess plas y brenin will need a new sponsor too - even the windows in the bar have the karrimor logo stamped on them!

In reply to benjamin gilbert:
>> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>> Last year I took in an 18 yr old Jaguar 6 to be repaired - not only were the repairs free, but they didn't even charge me for the postage


Damn, knew I should have got my Jag repaired sooner ;-(

Anyone know what time Wardour shuts tonight?

Dan

In reply to benjamin gilbert:

Then again it's an excellant way to gain/maintain customer loyalty - but it's a very difficult thing to quantify on a balance sheet. And sadly in todays society we don't place such high regard for products that don't wear out.

In reply to Chris the Tall: the other side effect is no-one needed to buy a new one, make a rucsac like berghaus that falls apart in a few years and make loads of money, is that the way outdoor gear will go?, sad if it is

In reply to chris_s:
I worked for the retail side until Friday & now have some time on my hands!
Its not yet clear what Lonsdale/Soccer Sport will do with the Karrimor brand, though I believe they have kept on the product development team & so on. It is unknown if anything will continue in Accrington.
It seems unlikely that anything constructive will be done with the retail side & all head office staff were given the (unpaid) boot instantly, so this looks to have a pretty poor future. Lonsdale bought half a dozen or so shops (for the leases we think), the rest remain with the receivers. It is hoped that someone will be able to do something with the remaining stores but they may end up split off separately by the receivers.
I'm now completely out of the loop so my info may already be out of date!
If anyone goes into the shops, there are some great deals but be nice to the staff! They're a good bunch of folks who've been through a lot of sh1t in the last couple of years what with YHA going & now Karrimor.

In reply to Anonymous:

I do a lot of corporate recovery work in my job, I even spent the last few years working for one of the big 5, so I tend to be inurred to business failures.

I just feel a real pang of regret that a company with such a "heritage" as Karrimor can fold. IMHO The move into retailing was probably the downfall - high risk, high costs and low profits, plus you then start retailing against your original customers.

Seems such a waste and I have a lot of sympathy for the staff, pity that an MBO would not have worked.

Maybe the manufacturing side and the brand can be revived, with the R&D and retailing subbed out to Lonsdale?

In reply to Anonymous:

This maybe a stupid question but I don't really understand this business speak and haven't read all these posts...but does all this mean that there's no more karrimor, ie. they've stopped making products for good etc...or have i just got it completeley wrong?!

In reply to RoCkStAr:

It means they have changed ownership. Exactly what the new owners plan to do with the company remains to be seen. Since they bought it, presumably they plan to do something.

In reply to Stefan Lloyd:

what may they do with it?

In reply to Anonymous:

Ive been one of the lucky ones I think, was employed by the YHA, then turned into Karrimor and now the store is one thats been decided to be kept on!

We've been told that Lonsdale will keep it as an outdoor shop but have had no guarantee to that effect and have no idea what brands will be stocked - will keep you updated with info from the inside!!

All Im saying id if it turns into one of those damn soccer world shops Im outta here!

In reply to Anonymous:

Bugger. This is really sad

I feel sorry for everyone affected. Shocked it actually affects so few people though. Always thought it was a much bigger company than that!

I am also a bit peed off as I was waiting till I visited the UK in Summer to get my rucksack repaired. Now I probably won't be able to get it done which is a bit of a pain as it is perfectly good apart from the fact that the adjustable straps won't adjust due to a busted buckle

In reply to RoCkStAr:

They need to make it profitable. They could:

a/ Cut costs
b/ Close loss-making parts and keep the rest
c/ Use the well-known brand name to expand into new areas

I have no idea what they plan to do, and suspect nobody else here does either. Some combination of a/ and b/ seems most likely.

In reply to Anonymous:Very sad news indeed. My first sac was a Karrimor Chamonix and I've bought their kit for 30 years without any problems. They haven't always been cutting edge but have always made serious kit designed for proper outdoor usage. Commiserations to all the staff.
At a selfish level I am wondering what will become of the KIMM now?? We had already worked it in to the plans for this year (I will be a veteran by 2 weeks) and were hoping to have a crack at the A if the LAMM B goes well. Any news on the KIMM would be much appreciated,
cheers, Paul

In reply to Paul Atkinson: I think that the KIMM is now run by an seperate company so should be uneffected

In reply to Paul Atkinson: The KIMM was started and is still run by Mike Parsons, as I'm sure you are all aware. Mike's parents started Karrimor (again as I'm sure you're all aware) but he moved on in 95ish if I remember rightly. His KIMMlite brand that make sleeping bags and lightwight kit for the KIMM and the KIMM itself are entirely seperate from karrimor proper and should therefore remain unaffected by recent events.

CSFL

Thanks for the replies. I know KIMM is separate from Karrimor along with KIMMlite which is Mike Parson's new venture. However, I had been under the impression (hopefully wrongly as it turns out) that Karrimor were still the major sponsor subsidising the event. Does anyone know about this??
cheers, Paul

In reply to Anonymous:
A shame, but Karrimor seem to have lost the plot a while ago, aiming for the 'fashion' market which is catered for so much better by others. Remember when they took over Phoenix tents and promptly discontinued them :-|

For all of you out there, here is what is going on OFFICIALLY, as far as I have been told as Assistant manager of the Southampton store:
1. Karrimor have been bought by Sportsworld International, the people who own Sport & Soccer. They have bought the wholesale side of the business and some of the larger retail stores.
2. The remaining stores are in receivership with Begbis Traynor, and are still trading at the moment. This includes Southampton, Liverpool, Henrietta St and Grasmere.
3. Several bids have been put in to buy these stores, either individually or as a group. However, the only company we know of are Field & Trek, all the others have remained anonymous to us.
4. As for the stores that have been bought, it would seem from actions so far that Sport Soccer intend to use them to sell thier own sports equipment and scale down the outdoor side drastically.

That is all I know for now, except that a number of HO staff at Karrimor have been made redundant, as well as a number of the Executive store managers from the stores that have been bought. We wait in hopeful anticipation that whoever buys the rest of us will keep us on as thier management teams for the stores.

Before you all throw your damaged Karimor sacks away they can bek repaired by scottish mountain gear. thier web site is:-

www.scottishmountaingear.co.uk

Cheers

Andy

In reply to andy Kirkpatrick:

Cheers Andy, wealth of useful information - As usual

In reply to andy Kirkpatrick: The excellent aftersales team of whom many on RT have vocied praise in the past, and which actually consists of three little old ladies with large bobbinns of rot-proof thread and boxes of spare bits for 'sacs, HAS NOT BEEN DISBANDED. Thus, one hopes, when the new owners sort their act out there may still be a repair facility available.

CSFL

In reply to john H: it will be worse than that I know somebody who works for the company who have gained them ,they are a national sports company who will have no intrest in the outdoor world they are only intrested in trainers and makeing quick fast millions.have you visted a lonsdale or lillywhites store of late ? no specialised stuff ,a new name and new stock, well thats them ! the future is bleak

In reply to cob: When they're selling off Red Chilli Sausalitos At £11.75 a pair, you know, they know nothing!

In reply to CENSORED:
Oh my Gad!!! Sport's Soccer have bought the majority of Karrimor stores... What the F~*$ yet another specialist store down graded to cater for the Chav scum of this planet in the newest Adidas or Kappa cr*p and term themselves 'sports specialists' come on!!! is it not enough we have to deal with these so called sports stores selling rubbish clothing and terrible trainers at bottom dollar claiming them to be the latest in sports development but never really having anything more than a couple of footballs and shin pads in stock to deal with the sporting side of things. Thankfully Other retailers have tried to keep with the outdoor theme and cater for most outdoor activities but then again how many kayaks does one store sell in a week anyway....

In reply to Anonymous:
Just been in the Wardour St shop - absolute carnage! The place used to be really quiet so seeing it crawling with vultures was a bit of a shock and a bit sad (no room for sentiment in business though eh?). Still, if you can get down there in the next day or two you may well be able to pick up some top gear for 1/2 price (all stock has the same discount) including a huge number of rucksacks.

The way they are flogging this stuff off suggests that there are no plans to continue marketing the current line of Karrimor equipment.

If anyone wants to know if an item was there or not, I might be able to let you know as i walked round the whole shop.

Cheerio,
Goggles.

In reply to gogglebox:

Were there any altimeters (sunnto)?

In reply to Anonymous:

There were loads of Suunto watches X3 and X6 for 1/2 price on Tuesday. Really had to try hard not to buy one - so got a Geko instead

Dan

In reply to Anonymous:
Not that I saw - most electrical stuff gone, although they did have plenty of batteries left!

In reply to gogglebox: The Karrimor shop in Ambleside is unaffected. It is not owned by Karrimor, they just stock their stuff and have an agreement to call themselves a Karrimor shop. Apparently it is privately owned, and deal with Karrimor just as any other shop would.

Went to the YHA Adventure shop on Deansgate, Manchester at lunchtime.

1. Loads of rucsacs from £30
2. Kiddies fleeces
3. Powerstretch tights £30-£35
4. Down jackets £75
5. Goretex Jackets & trousers, from £80
6. Light weight fleece zip tops from £20

They are restocking the shops every evening.

In reply to Anonymous: Just been to karrimor hq on my way bk from uni at bangor , i am very sad that this has happened to the company i have fond memories of the company having been away with them to plys brenin and also bourght all my gear from there since i was aged 11 years , KARRIMOR will always remin one of the well known makes within uk ! Also at the shop in clayton it was all townies and really common kids selling the stuff , i teseted them out asking what gortex ment they did not have a clue . Its a shame . A very sad student !

In reply to Rory Longton:


What a tw*ttish statement!

In reply to Rory Longton:

all former staff have been replaced in Notts store, so i asume this could be wider spread.

They seem to have been replaced by the SportsWorld staff

In reply to Anonymous:
Karrimor bought out YHA adventure shops last year. About 1 week ago was'nt Karrimor bought out by a company called Pentland, who also own Berghaus and speedo and a fair few other sports related things.

In reply to stu_dent: No! Read the thread, dumbass!

In reply to Anonymous:

The staff in Notts havent been replaced thankyou very much!!

At least I havent been told about it yet and Im supposed to be in tommorrow!!

In reply to Anonymous: It would appear that Field 7 Trek have bought out the remainder of the Karrimor stores!

In reply to Anonymous: I managed to get some good stuff at half price from the cambridge stores, despite the queue! Would rather have paid full price than see it changed into another bl**dy soccer world or whatever they're called - there are enough of them in cambridge as it is and hardly any outdoor shops that cater for walkers/climbers.

In reply to All:

look i know you are all sad about Karrimor going tits up (I bet I am sader as I work for them) however lets get a few thing straight.

Karrimor is not a charity, it is out to make as much money as it can in as short a time as possible.

It shipped the labour out of Britian to china, and the head share holder was a south african (he has made a packet).

All the majour players at the top have made packets from the company going under i.e. Ian Lamby the x- Marketting director bough a new Harly motorbike on the day of the companies liquidation.

Karrimor went bust beacuse it was shit. The stuff is state of the art for twenty years ago.

Karrimor went bust beacuse it didnt support its YHA staff. There is stuff we have never seen before in the warehouses and we were treated like we were idiots....duelly we did nuthing. Minimum wage = mimimun effort.

so dont feel that sad about good old Karrimor going down the tube...if you want to buy british then buy Mountain Equipment its way better than Karrimor anyway

In reply to YHA imployee:
>and we were treated like we were idiots....duelly we did nuthing. Minimum wage = mimimun effort.

If your spelling and grammar are representative then they weren't far wrong.

In reply to YHA employee:

Not particulary relevant but didn't Karrimor start off by an Accrington cycling enthusiast making his own saddlebags and then his mates asking him to supply them too?

My commiserations anyway.

In reply to benjamin gilbert:

You say that big US firms wouldn't pay postage and repair the item for free. I have to say that you are wrong. MSR just renewed my Dragonfly stove pump free of charge (five years old) and paid for postage.

Sure they would - at least the hotshot companies like Mountain Hardwear or Arc'Teryx (Canadian).

Even Jansport and Teva had free ship-back programs; I worked at a shop in the States, and customers would bring stuff in and we'd ship it off free of charge to those companies for the customers. Jansport even had special bags to send them in.

In reply to YHA imployee: But YHA used to treat their staff poorly anyway - surely it was no different under Karrimor?

In reply to Alison Parker: it dosent matter really does it?

either way you worked for both so you will know right?

LIVERPOOL store now up to 70% off.....

In reply to Paul T:

How sensitive of you to criticise a sacked/redundant man for his poor spelling when there is no reason to believe it was the cause of firms decline. I know I'm bloody minded but you take the biscuit.

As a dyslexic father of a dyslexic son (who works partime for Tog24 when not at college studying for better things) I have some sympathy for poor wording. Thanks to YHA_imployee for useful info!

In reply to OldManOfTheHills: Fair points about quick wrist slapping by Paul, but we don't know whether YHA_imployee's statements are factual or not. I am an ex-karrimor employee, and have heard quite different accounts of what's going on, to take any one person's opinion on RT as gospel would be slightly naive IMHO. Granted, the current state of karrimor isn't quite as important as, say, a descent bearing from somwehere-or-other but you get my point.

CSFL

In reply to CSFL:

Dear YHA_imployee i hope youre not telling porkies after that.


Yes bearings more important; 231 for 150m then 282 imprinted on last remaining braincell.

I get my coat, shut door after me.

In reply to YHA imployee:

Not sure which shop you work/worked in & agree with some of your sentiments & opinions. It is true that it was a commercial company looking for profit just like any other. Had it not moved production out of the UK it would have folded in the mid-nineties at the latest. And it is also probably true that for all sorts of reasons it was no longer state of the art on many products. I won't comment on Karrimor's support of YHA staff, as this can only be viewed on an individual basis.

However, as another former employee I must point out that you do NOT have all your facts correct. Whilst the former Chairman may well have made money ( I do not know for sure), it is NOT true that all the senior management did - I assume someone has just been spreading malicious rumours - and some were made redundant with no pay instantly. In particular Iain Lambie made nothing, & he was never a director or shareholder anyway, he was an employee like you or I. In fact as far as I am aware his job is just as insecure as everyone else. I also know that Iain has spent most of the time since the receivers arrived running around the company trying to help out & support store staff without any guarantee of being paid for that work, or the previous 3 weeks at all. Please do not malign people based on rumour unless you know the true facts.

To the majority of people posting here, thanks for your comments & commiserations to the staff who, myself included, have lost their jobs &, in most cases, at least 3 weeks salary.

In reply to YHA imployee:
if you want to buy british then buy Mountain Equipment its way better than Karrimor anyway

ha ha, ME british owned buy a swiss company(something to do with knives!!)
its not peter anymore, just like rab isnt rab and montane and all the rest

lets wait and see what happens, they could still keep it a fairly good company

In reply to all: have read this thread- am a little confused- does this mean the YHA shops are closing too?

sorry for all those who have lost jobs and pay- sounds a bad situation

etak (a former YHA employee!!! from the olde days)

In reply to YHA imployee:

Whilst I can understand your anger over what has happened during the past week or so, Let me just put you straight on one thing.
Iain Lambie did not make a packet, or purchase a harley davidson. Iain has put 100% into trying to hold together the stores since the takeover by karrimor Last Year.
He was made redundant on the 20th Feb and has not recieved any salary. He was kept out of the loop and was as much in the dark as us with regard to the lonsdale takeover.
I am sure he would have liked a harley, if you wish to blame anyone then go back to the problems that resulted with YHA Adventure shops being sold in the first place.
We all feel totally let down at the moment and who knows what will happen over the next few weeks.

In reply to Another Employee: Hear, hear. My condolences to those who have lost jobs and pay as a result of the takeover. The looks on the faces of the original employees of the london stores (recognisable by there lack of tracky bottoms/poloshirt/brilliantwhite trainers combo) were grey, there was a slightly macarbe atmosphere if one stoppped and looked around the shop and at the mele unfolding within it rather than jumping, sharpened elbows raised, straight in. In reply to another post from further up the list, I can also confirm that the MD was also made redundant on zero notice with no deal, and the South African major shareholder of which "yha_employee" speaks, did not make a "packet" but has seeminlgy lost everything. Once again my sympathy for those who have worked and shall not reveive pay.

CSFL

In reply to Etak: No, some are owned by the buyout company of sport soccer fame, and the rest have just been sold to field and trek. See f&t website for details.

CSFL

In reply to Anonymous: Stores still trding still Know nothing!!! The stores have to all send a representative to Karrimor HO on Wednesday when we may find out more.

Having woprked for YHA adventure and Karrimor for 14 years there are alot of collegues who have lost there jobs. I learnt alot in 14 years and wish everyone who was made redundant all the best. As for the staff and and manasgement left lets just cross our fingers!

Karrimor product was mostly very good and not that dated and I for one along with my staff would have liked to continue with them>

Should know more Wednesday.

In reply to YHA imployee:

I have to wonder if we both worked for the same company?! The description given of Karrimor clashes rather violently with my impressions of the place, after eight years in stores and at H/O...

Your description of Iain Lambie, in particular, is spectacularly wrong; he the man! As is said elsewhere in this strand, no-one has done more to try to keep the business afloat. Don't be fooled by Iain's tendency to call a spade a f*****g shovel, a chap more loyal to his staff (where they are worthy) you will not find; I'd work with him again any time.

If you think that the current Karrimor gear is 's**t', I suggest you may wish to brush up on your product knowledge somewhat. Knowing a little bit about outdoor gear may help, should you wish to get another job in an outdoors store.

Finally, it's been an honour to work with most of the Karrimor people, both in stores and at H/O. Good luck to you all!

In reply to Anonymous: I totally agree with all the comments of the previous message. if Iain Lambie was there for anyone it was the staff and he worked hard to try and please everyone !!!

I work in an outdoor shop and was gutted by the news, we've been told that all is well supply wise for the time being but I'm certainly going to buy a couple of packs I've had my eye on just in case.

They were a fantastic co to deal with, never quibbled over anything and always did their best for customer and shop, I'm very sorry to see them go - and can't believe one of the best back systems in the business may disappear - save us from Lowe Alpine and blisters!

In reply to Bill Ford-Smith:
glad to see that there are some ex employees on here sticking up for the company. I didnt work for the company for long and am now working for F & T. I had no complaints with Karrimor and think it is a great shame that it has been sold off.
Wish you good luck in the future and hope that all goes well for all of you who have not been as lucky as it seems those of us in the shops bought by Field and Trek.

In reply to Bill Ford-Smith:
Bill I had heard what was being said on here through the usual channels!! You will know that Climbing is not my thing, but I did feel the need to say something regarding Iain in a previous posting and i could not have said it better. Thanks to you and Malc for your kind words about those of us left behind for now, (hopefully for not to long. After weds we should know more about the future. Dont you just miss searching for dump code articles!! Will let you know more as and when. J

In reply to Anonymous:

Any news from the meeting today anybody?

In reply to chris_s:
Hi. I'm not strictly a ex Karrimor employee.
Was employed by YHA shops until they were taken over.
Made redundant because Karrimor did not buy my shop
(Salisbury}.
Cheers Helen

In reply to another employee: So whats the chat after wednesdays meeting?

In reply to Bill Ford-Smith: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa mister
Ford-Smith..............x marketting director are we? yes good good I have delt with plenty of your patronising emails over the past while...........

right to the matter! To say that I dont hve product knowlage is rubbish! I kmow it all and I know the new karrimor range is just as pap as the old lot. e.g.

The conrnice = crap leather boot not stiff enought to take a crampon but with crampon bails.

The pertex quatum down jacket = just a rebranded RAB jacket (but not as good).In fact they are made in the same factory.

etc etc......

however I am sorry for Iain Lambie......as far as I know he is an ok bloke to.

In reply to Bill Ford-Smith:

Well said Bill. Karrimor did offer many top quality products and were able to provided excellent after sales care.

It is a real shame to see it all end this way. I feel sorry for all the staff, Iain Lambie et al who did the best they could to first keep YHAS afloat and then Karrimor. It is a shame they did not succed as the consumer will lose out in the long run with less choice of product and quality.

In reply to Rich Anstead:

Is much sale stock still passing through YHA in Manchester?

(rock boots, head torches, cags etc)

In reply to Anonymous:

Latest from the meeting on Wednesday is that these Soccer World guys dont want to keep the stores and will probably be getting rid of them all to various anonymous bidders.

Some of which we are told are outdoor shops but we'll have to wait and see!!

Might be some hope left yet guys!! Though I think it does still mean Karrimor's dead.

In reply to ex employee again:
Knob!!
right to the matter! To say that I dont hve product knowlage is rubbish! I kmow it all and I know the new karrimor range is just as pap as the old lot.

You obviously DON'T have much product knowledge - to slag the whole Karrimor range off on the basis of a couple of products proves this. What about the excellent rucksacks they made?? Even some of the 'old lot' is better than the new shiny fashion items that some other companies make.

In reply to gearboy:

I wonder if you are aware of exactly where the various brands theat you seem to hold in such high regard manufacture their product.

The only company that I know of that makes rucksacks in the UK are POD.

Mountain Equipment, Karrimor, Berghaus, Sprayway, Lowe Alpine, Millet, Lafuma, Osprey, Macpac, Mammut, etc, etc are all made in the Far East, usually in China.

The reasons are that the general retail trend is to reduce retail prices and the general workforce require higher wages, therefore these companies and others in different labour intensive industries require lower labour rates in order to stay in business and make money.

So before you go shouting your mouth off about "The Great British Mountain Brand" please check your facts

In reply to ex employee again: you have a mental disease.

Does anyone know if the shop in Nottingham is still open and if it is does it have much stock. I'm going there this morning for a meeting and thought I'd pop in

In reply to markus: What about the excellent rucksacks they made?? == like that sorry excuse for a role top? or the Bommer pack cuverd in hyperlon fabric that made it to heavy?


oh yes i remeber those winners....:0)....lol keep the abuse coming folks!

KARRIMOR = shit.

.....however the KSB300's I nicked off with are quit good...

In reply to Mal Grey:
Good evening Malc,
thanks for the thought.

Lets hope that the brands keeps its credability
Brighton, Cambrdige, Notingham and Manchester seem to have a future. hope you have a good one too.

All the best
Paul Foster

In reply to Adam Lincoln: i was in there yesterday, mostly karrimor stuff id say 80% but its all half price mostly boots jackets and rucsacks.

In reply to rod:

Thats a coincidence! I went in yesterday for a peek aswell. They only have Karrimor stuff left which was a bit disapointing!

In reply to very ex employee:

Okay, against my better judgement, I'll bite...

I'm puzzled by this vehement dislike of Karrimor rucksacks; by any rational measure, they were complete 'category killers'. The Global series dominated the travel market utterly and the Jaguar series had a similar position in the trekking market. As for the larger Boma (that is the correct spelling), it was Adventure Shops 25th most profitable pack in the entire range of several hundred (of all styles/models/colours), so clearly the public like tough (but heavyish)...

I'll cheerfully concede that the Karrimor rucksack range didn't do 'fast and light' terribly well, from a climber's perspective, but that's probably because that's probably completely the wrong approach for the majority of UK users. Those UK users who *really* need fast and light are actually very few.

As an example: back in the day, Lowe launched their Alpine Attack series; they were light climbing packs, which could be stripped down to make them lighter still and they looked cool on display in the shop. Lots of people bought them. The majority of people who did buy them wrecked them far too quickly, as they were using them for typical UK cragging/walking/scrambling etc and the lightweight materials just wore out. Result: Lowe beefed up the construction massively and the pack got significantly heavier.

In light of this (not an isolated example), I totally don't blame Karrimor for making their climbing packs relatively bombproof, but a bit heavy. Incidentally, they aren't actually any heavier than most of the competition, as far as I know.

With my retail head on, I'd be very reluctant to even range more than a very few lightweight climbing packs against this background. My thought would be to leave 'fast and light' climbing-specific gear (as opposed to that for the travel market, or MTBers) to those specialists who's customer base includes that kind of punter and who's staff actually do it themselves (and who can therefore advise sensibly) e.g. Outside.

As a final note: Karrimor rucksacks have to be fairly decent; they achieved their pre-emminent position almost entirely on merit - Karrimor's marketing was, after all, virtually non-existant...

In reply to Bill Ford-Smith: Hear-hear.

CSFL

In reply to CENSORED:

Who is this c@!ksucker and what sort of screenname is censored?

In reply to Bill Ford-Smith:

Well said!

My bits of Karrimor kit:

Hot Ice, bought 1985

Sympatex Kagoul, bought 1985

The Karrimat, bought 1985

Hot Route, bought 1987 - sadly it was stolen

Alpiniste, replaced the Hot Route

Reversible polartec zip top, smooth one side, fluffy the other, early 'soft shell'?, bought 1991

Diamond goretex jacket, bought 1997

Various fleeces, bought over the years

In spite of my repeated attempts at trashing the kit, they seem to have survived, mostly intact! So sad to see them go.

In reply to Bill Ford-Smith:

Karrimor hot rocks and hot ices are ten a penny on the grags and many are over 10 years old.

Likewise the Alpininst.

How man of the bells and whistles stuff available now will still be useable in 10 years time.

Karrimor kit was always that bit heavier but it was that bit more over engineered. Too much emphasis these days on peripherals and not enough on the ability of a sack to fall of the top of Simons Seat, get sat on by a burro and make it through Paksitani baggage handling.

In reply to very ex employee:
Read the recent posts from people who've actually used the gear and weep... you truely are full of shite!

In reply to very ex employee: hey ex employee - did you have this attitude when you were an employee (perhaps you are responsible in part for the failure of the company)? were you ever an employee, or are you just angry at the world for a small endowment? I can't understand how someone would be so very mean spirited towards a rucksack. Wake up. It is only a rucksack, and with all the other truly disturbing things in the world it doesn't seem that important.

In reply to michael: well yes I supose in the grater picture of things its not tht important is it?

however my point is Karrimor the grate british rubbish company is no grate loss...some of there kit is good however most of it is behind the times.

In reply to ex employee (DJ mix master slim):If thatz the bezt yew cann spel the cumpanie is betr of without yew.

In reply to gear boy:
Yes Burton Mcall have bought out M.E.
They are not the PEN KNIFE company, they just distribute them. However that's not the point,

In reply to chris tan:
Chris,
Well not just you but everyone who's sat through all these postings and there are a lot of them. You must look after your gear! Most of it should have fallen apart from U.V. damage by now. There are some things that maybe people have missed, I know it's always bad when a brand you've brought 'in to' falls apart, but to me there do seem to be reasons.
1. Made in China - makes sense, these people sew for a living and worse than that they know if they fail to deliver or mess too many jobs up there are more than enough others to take their place. So for me quality is not an issue.
2. Design. He He we could all argue about this one for years! All of you who have an old Karrimor rucksack, look at it - try and see the shapes of the fabric ect..... now look at a new one. Get past the addition of straps, bells and whistles - it's probably the same pack! This a problem Karrimor HAD (past tense) a good product (around the 90's?) and never invested the time in taking it to the next stage, they took the sticking plaster route - which did mean the packs got heavier!
Clothing got lost, they introduced sooooooo many lines that they didn't have time to really keep the range tight, so it got dated ( on the whole ).
3. What are you? Maybe Karrimor should have asked this question. They bought out/shares in other companies and 'expanded'. If any of you ever went on the 'net site, or got to see one of there complete cataloges you will know that before they went bust they delt in sandals to fleece hats, walking poles to tents and stoves. They simply became greedy and thought that the name 'Karrimor' stamped on a product would sell it. Before I get hundreds of replies back saying how great your item is, stop and think about all the tat that was made beside it. The 'range' of boot bags, the stoves, the rebranded poles which looked identical to the 'Mountain King' ones, the boots ( if you like your KSB's 300 and upwards go and look at th GARMONT web site see where they came from ), and the clothing- same pattern, slightly different materials 3 different 'garments'.
So all in all I agree it's sad when something we held as our 'own' goes, but I ask was it really what you thought it was? Can one company really be good at all those different fields? Next time you head off into the hills be glad you have boots from A, a coat from B, and you've got the rest of the alphabet hung around you somewhere. No company is 'good' at everything ( they'd like you to think they are ).

Posted by a gear lover who owns Karrimor boxers and nothing else

In reply to Bill Ford-Smith:
It's OK Bill I'm not going to slight you for you massive faillings in people skills, and personality. Instead lets talk about the gear, it was on the whole somewhat lacking, yes Karrimor had their 'classics' and flogged them to death. The detail just wasn't there - hydration tube holes that would not fit bite valves through on sacks, jacket's where articulation was confused with childish darting to encourage shape ( but also added weight, seams, and made the garment stiff), and the boots ( this is a whole essay's worth).
On the issue of staff, now plese everyone take note beause I'm sure this wasn't just a YHA problem, senior sales had the attitude ' we don't need people with technical knowledge, just people who can sell and clean.' . No wonder YHA employee with their 'know how' didn't feel wanted or valued.

In reply to Anonymous:

Feel free to dis my personality; I'll be the first to admit it's severely lacking (or rather, I won't, as many will do it for me first)! I'm completely sure you yourself are a paragon of virtue though? I'm afraid I only take personal criticism seriously when it's from someone I can identify and respect...

For what it's worth, you're quite wide of the mark on the value placed on technical knowledge amongst staff; it was generally viewed as invaluable (hence why Karrimor employed people *just* to do staff training). By and large, the best staff I've worked with over the years have tended to have technical knowledge in bucket-loads.

Having said that, technical knowledge/experience (just as important) of the gear may be essential, but it's just as important to be able to marshall the information at your disposal and present it to the punter at whatever level is appropriate to that individual. Not everyone who walks through the door wants a microscopically detailed rundown on all possible options...

The 'best staff' mentioned earlier knew and understood this and were able to tailor their approach to each indivual punter accordingly. If you're any good, you don't actually need to 'sell' anything; you talk to the punter, identify their needs and draw appropriate product to their attention - worthy gear practically sells itself.

As I've said before, the numbers I saw every day indicated that there were many excellent products in the Karrimor range which did exactly what the punters needed them to do. As far as I'm concerned, any bit of gear that does what the punter needs it to do is a good bit of gear; just because that punter isn't as hard as you may be doesn't make what they're doing, and the gear they're doing it with, any less valid.

Remember a funamental rule of life: the person with the biggest smile at the end wins!

In reply to Anonymous:

It's OK Anonymous, I'm sure he won't slight you for your massive failings in communication and spelling skills either. When I worked for the YHA (before Karrimor took over) I always found Bill to one of the most helpful and clued-up members of staff in the head office. I agree that Karrimor did produce a number of poor products, but they also produced a large number of good products as well. Personally I was never keen on their clothing, especially the colour ranges stocked by the YHA stores, but some of their bags were great.

In reply to Bill Ford-Smith:
Bill, its not that your personality is lacking, its that there's too much of it, mate!!!!

Completely agree with everything you've said (for once, I hear you say...), the best staff combine their knowledge & enthusiasm for the gear with an understanding of how to talk, approach & sell to customers. And, most importantly, they enjoy doing it & going that extra mile for the customer! Knowing a customer has gone away happy & satified is what its all about. "Anonymous", you should know that a loss of technical knowledge in staff had been identified as a concern at Head Office & was being addressed, it was not policy to teach only "used car salesmen" techniques.

Anyway, surprised this thread is still going & glad to hear from a few ex-colleagues. And one thing is very clear - neither Karrimor or YHA/Adventure Shops went under because of a lack of loyalty & motivation from the staff.

Oh, & why can't people have enough of a spine to put their name to their comments!!!!!

In reply to Mal Grey: Did anybody report from the "wednesday meeting"? Are we still expecting Karrimor to turn into a jansport type school rucksac manufacturer? Also, if K didn't go under because of staff/customer loyalty but because of dodgy dealings at the top (slander) then is there a hole to be filled in the market buy the ex-design-employee's output? Or has the deign team been retained?

CSFL

In reply to CSFL:
Lonsdale bought the shops purely to clear the massive stockholding Karrimor had, once the stock is gone they are looking to get rid of the shops. Though various TUPE regulations prevents them from making the staff redundant, if the shop is not sold i shall not be working with the sport-monkeys any longer than neccessary to pay my mortgage. Please can the ANONYMOUS posters identify themselves, as i think i can identify some of the knob-heads guffing out sh1te.

In reply to richboy:

...as i think i can identify some of the knob-heads guffing out sh1te...

Bit harsh Rich!!! I agree, but a bit harsh all the same!!

In reply to Anonymous:
>You must look after your gear! Most of it should have fallen apart from U.V. damage by now.

Huh? By gear do you means tents only? Or are you talking about the property of silicone to break down with time from UV?, or are you taking the mickey?, or are you talking rubbish?


Have you been to a chinese factory? What do you know about the culture surrounding economic development regions in china (mostly used area in china for manufacturing)? How do you know they are fearful of losing their jobs?


Dude, you are smoking serious weed. Yes it is true that originally, modern technical packs began with no hip belts (invented by Yvonne Chouinard circa 1970) and the packs were called monoqueque (mono-cock) (sorry for the spelling if it is wrong). These patterns were amazing three dimensional shapes. Then came the hip belt, hence no more amazing (and expensive) shapes needed, and the introduction of the first commercial packs in a large scale to the market (the packs you site as a reference I assume). Fast forward to late 1990's and far eastern manufacturing makes the ability to use "innefficient" but ergonomic pattern panels to make shapes in totally different ways that challenge even the monoqueque standards of performance. Totally different! But I cannot accept that you even know about this history. Bells and whistles are added because they are requested by end users, letters, testers, and sales people. Design people try to find the balance.


Well done on your logic here. Here is my version:

I got lost, I was so fat I couldn't find my bible so I went to the zoo.


Who hasn't? Think VF hasn't expanded? Think Pentland hasn't expanded? Think La Fuma, Mammut, Columbia, Nike, Addidas haven't expanded? It is a sad statement, but to compete in today's world of megalithic corporations (including retail groups in the UK, Europe and USA) brands are forced to band together. When they do it right, with correct funding and management it works and no one says anything. When they get it wrong people blame it on their greed. Perhaps desperate to generate increasing turnover to compensate for the transformation in the UK competition area, karrimor diversified. Maybe wrongly, and under funded. Unless you were on the board, or leading it you don't know jack so shut up.

Posted by a stupid gear lover who wears nothing.

In reply to jorvie:

Its a shame the KSB's have gone, but the Military arm will remain in any companies that have the "rights" to re-produce the equipment.

Oh well, there goes another Hong Kong company!!!!!

I hadn't heard of the demise of Karrimor until I walked past the YHA shop in Nottingham this afternoon and saw the closing down sale posters. I couldn't resist looking for some bargains but I quickly noticed that this wasn't the old YHA I knew. Apart from the limited range (only Karrimor clothing and boots) I noticed that the staff were all spotty kids wearing pikey clothing, and the clearance price tags seemed worryingly familiar... then I remembered. A few weeks ago I had been shopping with a couple of friends to get some pikey clothes for a fancy dress party. Deja vu!

Shopping there wasn't a particularly enjoyable experience. At the back of the store, though, there were 2 members of staff serving in the footwear area who were more like you would expect (smartly dressed, not picking their nose and not enjoying the music). One of them, clearly quite frustrated, briefly told me what was going on.

From what I have read above, I would agree with many that it is very sad that Karrimor appears to be finished. For the staff who have suffered I of course extend my sympathies. For those bickering consumers above I would say this. Irregardless of whether you were a fan of the kit/company a manufacturer going out of business, along with many retail outlets, reduces competition and choice for the consumer. Even in a big city like Nottingham, the loss of the YHA shop will reduce choice and that is bad for everyone.

The impression I got from the store is that there is a lot of stuff still to shift. The store manager in Nottingham might benefit from thinking about who their potential customers are. Blasting out scally/pikey/chavvy music doesn't make your average Karrimor customer think about buying.

In reply to Stephen from Nottingham: I have been a user of Karrimor for as long as can remember. Its a shame this has happened. I went into the Karrimor Shop in Accrington, yes young spotty kids running the joint with absolutely no idea about the product or even how to run the till, I waited for one hour to get served.

The was only one orginaly member left in the shop, and I have to give her praise for all that she has done for me in the past. It will be a great lose to see her go and the shop as well.

I really hope that Lonsdale don't screw the brand up, I don't think they have a idea about the brand at all.

I wish all the staff at Karrimor every luck in the world with what they do.

In reply to Anonymous: Karrimor went down the pan years ago when they were bought out.

In reply to Anonymous:

People like you piss me off - Obviously you've not go the balls to say who you are, but you seem to think you know far more about how Karrimor and similar companies function. Your comments are for the most part crass and made without any real knowledge of the situation. Clearly you're an up your self super techy user who can only see product in pure end user terms. As Jorvie says, whistles and bells, etc. get asked for by consumers, salesmen and retailers. If you can't sell the product into a retailer because they don't think it has the things on it that they beleive they need to sell it, then you loose sales. Companies cannot survive on just selling super high end product that does the 'technical job' perfectly - the volumes are just too low. However, these products cascade features and design into the rest of the range and allow consumers lower down the price scale to 'buy into the brand.' This is why the clothing had similar looking products. I can assure you that they were not exactly the same pattern or design, but a good commercial range from any business not just outdoor, or clothing or equipment, will structure a range to allow different types of consumer to buy into it. Therefore the Karrimor range on both clothing and sacs had a clear structure and hierachy of price, features, material and aesthetic. This is also part of the 'brand handwriting.' By and large this was successful although naturally some products were not so good. To deny this would be foolish as you should never stop trying to improve things.

As for Karrimor buying other shares / companies, etc., how can you possibly comment on the wisdom of expansion without knowing the facts - for example the stoves were licensed to another company who specialises in making stoves - so in no way did this distract karrimor product people from developing the core products. I can assure you that Karrimor did not end up in receivership becasue the products were all crap. As Bill Ford-Smith says in his posts, the numbers he saw every day as a retail merchandiser were by and large good. Karrimor was simply not controlled properly from the top and poor decisions were made in where to allocate resource and in the end the cashflow became too stretched. This is generally why most companies go bust - cash!!

There were many dedicated people at Karrimor, some who had been there over 30 years!! There were a lot of end users in different areas of outdoor sports who between them could give experienced user input into product development.
There were also alot of people who argued passionately with top management to do things differently, but much comment and advice fell on deaf ears. Understand that these people are absolutely gutted that the brand could end up in the situation it is now with a bunch of idiots who don't understand what they've purchased. It will be interesting to see what happens because most of the remaining staff are bailing out as fast as possible.

In answer to some earlier stupid and ignorant posts:

Many Chinese factories make far better product than factories in the UK and the bonus is that they are more cost effective. If a product was made in the UK, the price that would have to be charged (to make a margin that would keep Karrimor or any of the other brands in business let alone make a profit) would be so high none of you pontificating idiots would pay for it! All outdoor brands make product overseas - get over it!!

Rab make down jackets in Yorkshire - Karrimor made them from Polish goose down in Poland at a very good down product supplier - they were not the same thing from the same factory - this is Fact!!

People who don't know the facts should keep quiet!! I just hope that everyone who has suffered from this episode gets a good job soon.

Interesting little story about being taken over etc.......

http://www.omegaoutdoor.co.uk/history.htm

Does the 'Change of ownership' section ring a bell?

In reply to Tin:

Well said!

In reply to Anonymous:



You are a bit of an idiot arn't you

In reply to everyone:
I work at Nottingham, and still do. everyone except the weekend staff has gone. Rich, the manager, has gone on a very well timed two week holiday. All other staff members, including the full time assistant manager, have gone. Instead we have the sports monkeys running around everywhere. The day they moved in one of them stole £65 from a karrimor employee's wallet and one of their own employees phones, and the guy still hasnt been caught. Meanwhile they've accused us of stealing, dont let us lock our stuff away in the office/safe, and insist on searching us on the way out.
Anyway. We've been reciveing the minutes from meetings of our representatives.

The 7 shops are being sold seperetly. The strand I believe is becoming a Soccer sport. Cambridge, Manchester, Birmingham and Nottingham are to be sold as a going concern to either mountain warehouse or Field and Trek. The other stores that have been kept are on to be sold off seperetly. All staff are being sold off, or offered positions in sports world. I think one of the stores is to become a pret a manager, so you gotta feel sorry for those guys.

Karrimor is staying in production, according to the minutes, but they dont go into much detail on that note.

Thats all we've been told. The lease to my shop ran out on the 23rd, but they are squatting and just not paying to get rid of the stock, but the first delivery all week was today and that was only rucksacks, so god knows whats going to happen.
Thats the story.

In reply to Allan Thomson:
I called up KIMM and spoke to Mike about a warranty claim on a jacket a couple of weeks ago. There was no indication at all of them stopping from him, however he did ask me to call back in a few weeks as he wasn't sure about the situation of him getting access to stitching people to have a look at it. He did mention he wanted to carry on his good service though.

In reply to Dude from the notts store:

Sorry to hear about the dodgy staff, but not that surprised after seeing who was in the London stores. Guess they're also not used to dealing with honest staff, hence the searches.

I've not heard any more about what's happening with the Karrimor brand, but do know that virtually all the product development guys & girls have gone, so doesn't sound like they want to "build on the heritage & values" of the brand!

All the best to all the Notts folks - the old Notts site was my first store in 1989 (old git...) - & say hi to Rich for me if you get a chance.

Correction, it is the st pauls shop becoming a sports world. Sorry about that.
In reply to Mal Grey:
If he ever gets back, I'll be sure to.

yup thats it folks!

good old Karrimor...tits up for ever! :0)

c'ya!!!!!

In reply to Tin:
Ahem! Ahem!

http://www.aiguille.co.uk/

Best bags made in the UK. Just round the corner in sunny Staveley.

Also excellent flapjacks at Wilf's.

In reply to Anyoneofus:
We could argue the rights and wrongs, if's and but's to the demise of Karrimor, forever, there have been so many other similar situations down the years. Where small companies with good ethics and a loyal staff grow to be "The Company",where they have to compete with the "big boys" (sorry to any women readers - still being held back!). This is where the story of Karrimor ends. It was sold on, but the ethics and loyalty and what essentially made it what it was ended that day. A great deal of the practices of the old company would have seemed a complete waste to the new owners. Things like repairing something regardless of whether it was the fault of the user for instance, must have appeared quite bizarre.
I think we know that Karrimor, the one we're talking, arguing and reminicing about, went for a walk a long time ago. And as for made in Britain/England/UK even - well, what was our incredibly diverse manufacturing base took a hike over thirty years ago. Made in Britain by a British owned company. Name me a bunch of well known companies that fall into this category. If this is a democracy, we must have let it happen - well, there are still choices, but hell, what with a mortgage and a family, can we afford to rock any boats or be dare I say it - political?!.
And to end on a 'sic' note, if we don't like what a company has become, who they do business with and who they exploit, then we should invoke our universally political right - and vote with our feet.
Love - y'all! - Ramblinmad - Dig that Soultax when you can!


(my personal problem with China is Tibet, even over the prisoners used to manufacture goods for nothing - documentary a few years ago!)

In reply to Ramblinmad:

You are so right, so many good small companies expand and bloat till they burst. It still means that the small good ones spring like pheonix from the ashes.
Mountain Equipment went that way, now PH is back running a smaller operation.
Camptors, went to Jackson and Warrs, both initially good small companies who then were swallowed up in the Blacks empire and emasculated.

So long as enthusiasts make good gear people will beat a path to their door and as soon as they sell out to accountants they move on to a better supplier.

Brighams is still a family business, pity its leader has lost his spark.

In reply to sutty: Thanks for the reply Sutty. I don't usually get involved in Forums, I was searching for news of the Karrimor situation when I came across this site. I was struck by the mix of people contributing, and I would say this; Most of the companies that manufacture the goods we buy exist for one thing, to grow. The kind of companies that have a loyal customer base tend to be small, and therein lies the secret, and one we should all learn - If we want the well made product, the personal service, the "No problem too small" attitude, then we're going to have to pay for it. And that means not going up the road or out of town to the big store and getting it cheaper. We need to remember that small firms can never compete, and we shouldn't expect them too. For years I have been getting bike spares and wheel trueing done by a friend with a little bike shop a few miles from me. He can't do deals, his spares are not cheap, but his work is first class and he always has a smile. He doesn't make much money, but he's kept in business by a bunch of people who'd rather go out of thier way because they trust him (and know he'll be there next week) rather than go to someone who buys in bulk, and the salesperson is dreaming of an XR3i Turbo (which you can't get a tent in the back!).
It's up to us, we are a diverse bunch, from the casual weekend walker through to the full on Mountaineer via the people looking for that "just right" pair of sunglasses to wear at thier Skiing holiday. Me, I'm a road cyclist and walk up Mountains. Anyway, if we want great service along with the well made product, we are going to have to pay for it, stay loyal and hopefully new little businesses will spring up, stay small and make shopping a pleasure.
Oh, while I'm ranting, let's respect the various levels we are involved in our outdoor pursuits, I know a lot of people who buy serious walking shoes for work just because they last and are comfortable. These peole help to keep the shops in business. How many shops could survive on selling climbing gear alone? - Ah, climbers (big-up Catherine Desteville!!) - I feel the need to mention another bylaw of gravity to those who climb the really tough stuff - What goes up, should be brought down. Don't leave your rubbish up there. We know it's hard anmd the air is thin, but if you're going to mess a place up, don't go. I mean, there's an Internet Cafe' at base camp on Everest now, just to make money to clean the trash up.
Sorry to take up so much space (not sure of the protocols on a Forum - someone put me in my place please!) but they don't call me Ramblinmad because I walk!!

Love n' Peas Ramblinmad - wondering what "Lifetime Guarantee" means on a pair of Panniers, hoping it means they'll last a lifetime?.
Does this take this (string?) on?

In reply to Anonymous:
sad state of affairs, Karrimor all but gone and Lowe Alpine leaving our shores for Italy having made its staff redundant ( or most of them!!)

Gerard

In reply to Anonymous:
Thats very bad news. Karrimor sacks were heavier but if they lasted longer whats the problem? With Rab sold off aswell its all very sad.

NMM

In reply to Anonymous:
Int Capitalism great!

NMM

In reply to Tin: tin rules. kdbl drools

KDBL = karrimor's death by lonsdale

In reply to Stephen from Nottingham:
Do you really think that was my choice of music.....the childish RM has since banned them from playing music?

In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey: I will miss Karrimor what a shame

It is a shame to see Karrimor go the same way as other equipment manufacturers/retailers. However, from this forum I notice that many people make nostalgic references to their old Karrimor sack. I, too, made use of the Hot range and their alpine sacs, but that was 10 years ago. Then Karrimor stopped making equipment of that quality and I switched brands, presumably in the same way that other mountaineers and hillwalkers did. Perhaps Karrimor should have developed its products with mountaineers and hillwalkers in mind, instead of the armchair variety. That way, it might have remained a small, but profitable, organisation instead of becoming a loss-making giant.

Today, Pod make excellent quality rucksucks. I highly recommend them. Hopefully, that company won't go the same way as Karrimor.

In reply to Dude from the notts store:

Do you have any further info on the firm 'staying in production' ?

In reply to DanDan:

Karrimor are now advertising for technical development people for rucksacks & clothing. It would appear they want people who are serious & knowledgeable about the product, so maybe there is hope for the future of the brand after all. Unfortunately most of the current team have gone so it will take a while to get things up & running as these things take some time! For instance, the old team were working on Autumn 05 I think.
I presume that if debts with factories have been settled in some way by the new owners, then production of current lines might continue?

In reply to Mal Grey:

I typed in google :

"view latest messages in all forums" production

and learnt from one of the forum messages that manufacture was exported before the mid 90's. Is it all done abroad or it there manufacture in Lancashire too?

In reply to Mal Grey:

Which country was production exported to?

In reply to DanDan:

Pretty much all production for nearly all major UK suppliers of outdoor gear (i.e. clothing, equipment, footwear etc) is done abroad (see previous posts on this thread re: costs etc).

Rab was one of the last 'big' ones to make stuff in this country - Sheffield! Some of the climbing people produce gear in this country e.g. Wild Country (whose factory is quite an eye-opener: phenominal attention to detail and quality control)

Most happens in the far east, in various contries - China, Vietnam et al. Different companies use various different factories all over the place, largely depending on who's good at making what...

In reply to DanDan:

As Bill says, the vast majority of outdoor production is now offshore. Karrimor's was predominantly China, with other factories in Vietnam, Eastern Europe etc.

In reply to Mal Grey:

Does anyone know what is happening to Karrimor's factories in Vietnam, China?

Karrimor = shit

no grate loss!!!!!

In reply to Bingo boy: You're absolutely right; no grates were lost during the whole process. Why there should have been any grates at Karrimor puzzles me somewhat though...

In reply to Bingo boy:

Indeed.
Also, Bingo Boy spelling = shit.

In reply to Bill Ford-Smith: good point! well said! I have been watching this thread for a while and there has been a lack of abuse...so I though I would stir things up a bit :0)

go caught out though!

great!

P.s.

I actually quit like Kmor stuff however I like the KIMM stuff more.

In reply to DanDan:

It's very unlikely that they had set up dedicated, company-owned factories in the devoping world. More likely they contracted the work out to existing factories that also made gear for other manufacturers.

In reply to Bill Ford-Smith: well Bill its great to see that you still have good sence of humour despite being instumentall in the liquidation of Karrimor Interntionl and the resultant loss of hundreds of jobs.

still chin up!...found a new job yet?

In reply to Anonymous: Magnificent: not so much an ill-informed opinion as a non-informed opinion...!

In reply to Bill Ford-Smith: Do you think that anon thinks you are the other Bill?

In reply to richboy:

Easily confused really! Such similar personalities, Mr Kelly & Sir William F-S, esq! I always got BK & BFS confused! Maybe Bill FS should have kept wearing the bow-tie after all!

Anon doesn't think, he/she just tries to provoke! Occasionally it may be fun to rise to it, but normally I don't bother. I would point out how stupid it makes him look, but that would be rising to the bait....oh, booger, just did.

This post does keep running, doesn't it....

In reply to richboy: Well, we're very easy to confuse...! Suspect BK would be mortally offended if anyone confused him with me!!

In reply to Mal Grey: it's got legs, as they say. Got a job yet?

I am now redundant. i got offered aa job at sportsworld, and declined, so thats that.

In reply to ex-dude from notts store:
Great loss, i've had my hot 30 for ten years and no probs, needing a biiger sack now for winter use I stumbled upon 50% off everything at the YHA in Wardour st.

Now i'm the proud owner of a 75 litre Cougar that I'm sure will last for years to come. Well it better had as I'm not sure if there will be anywhere to send it.

Some good things come out of bad situations..

In reply to ex-dude from notts store: to bad mate. I worked with you remeber (they guy with Wilburt) and it's a bad turn of events.

still you will do better with a new employer me thinks.....to be honest I think Karrimor never really apreciated you, all that extra work (for no extra money) that you put in etc etc.

however look at the bright side you have a lot of work experiance from this little stint that should stand you in good stead for your next job.

Longshot: Does anyone connected with any of the stores know where I could get a hold of a pair Garmont Rambler pants. I bought a pair in Feb from the Grasmere shop and they are the best thing on the planet for alpine and ski touring use.Yet again Im left wondering why all the best products dissappear from sale!

Problem is Garmont clothing isnt imported anymore and Im desperate to find another pair size Med (any colour). Could be my last chance to stock up before the good kit becomes extinct.

Ps if any designers are kept on can you just exacttly copy the 1998 versions of the Alpiniste 45 sack and Summit jacket (maybe in stretch xcr)as my stocks on these are running low and no other manufacturer has quite matched these for daily work use.

May the Karrimor phoenix rise again (pun intended)

In reply to ex-dude from notts store:

Thats harsh mate - best not to be working for sportsworld though.

I dont think any of us could have taken that job. I take it Andy's in the same position?

Good luck with everything mate - we'll have to get out climbing sometime soon!

In reply to richboy:

Nah, not yet, too much time biking & climbing! A few things up my sleeve though...need something fairly soon or the money will get a bit tight. Especially as the blinking receivers are still sitting on the forms for getting my lost pay back from the DTI. Well that's the excuse I've been given by the Redundancy Payments Office...

In reply to Anonymous:
Don't know if anyone cares but the karrimor store in Whitby, North Yorkshire, where I worked part time for 3 years, closed down almost straight away.
Very sad about the whole affair. I really enjoyed my time with the company and will miss working with Jon, Jane and the others at Whitby.

In reply to Nick A: the stock would have belonged to Karrimor, then to sportsworld as it was one of their own stores. presumably it was all cleared out and shipped to their warehouse with everything else. think the same happened to store at lowry centre.

In reply to john H:
I bought the same sac for around the same price

karrimor have been sold to the donnay shop,
donnay shop sells all products cheaply,
they make back their money and stop development,
karrimor name goes into the background. The End

Sad I know seen as though they have been here since the beginning

Boots are OK though as it is a separate company

Just read Mike Parsons' comments on the KIMM website - what a bummer for him.

In reply to Anonymous:
I have read this whole string and as the owner-driver innovator of Karrimor until late 1996,I have a few comments to make which I hope will provide a little balance.
When I left Karimor we employed around 320 people in 2 factories which because of its employees and advanced processes were arguably second to none in the world; we had the fastest response times and the lowest product failure rates in the industry world wide and this was the foundation of the company reputation. Not every product was the best of course, that would be arrogance to claim but they stood proud and tall and could rub shoulders with any around the world.
My thanks go to all who helped create such a great brand and teh best ofluck in your future careers.
After I left in 1996 the product emphasis changed completely and things began a serious downward trend under Benetton-connection ownership. The second owner, South African, was in love with the brand and lost several £millions trying to recover the scenario, closing both factories and buying many shops in the process.
Moving on;
The product debate in the string actually appears to revolve around the weight/durability/simplicity/bells and whistles scenario which I think is certainly important
My new brand www.KIMMlite.com tries to find this balance in a range of gear; packs, tents, sleeping bags and clothing. I am excited by the coming crossover of mountaineering and adventure racing and feel this will produce some interesting products in the true Karrimor tradition.
Mike Parsons;owner,KIMM event and KIMMlite.

In reply to Mike Parsons:

Thanks for that Mike, glad to see you are doing a Mike Hutchenson and getting back in the saddle.

Now, about the drawcord on my 30 year old Chamonix sack