UKH

This spring I'm looking to do some of my first mountain climbs from a camping base, rather than a hut base as previous. This obviously requires a slightly different expectation of comfort, but I still want it to be as enjoyable experience as possible so have a few questions on peoples best methods.

The first is regarding number 2's. There's a fair bit of info online about bags, with the main concept being an inner sealed bag and then an outer bag, often with cat litter included somewhere along the line. Seems like a reasonable solution to me, but just wondering if anyone has any tips of tricks for improving the base system? Is it better to do it on the ground and pick it up or aim for the bag in peoples experience?

Secondly is keeping stuff warm overnight, with the main concern for me being footwear as I'll be wearing single boots. I know it's probably seen by most as unnecessary luxury, but does anyone have any experience using handwarmers to prevent freezing overnight/possibly even have the chance of waking up to warm boots. I notice there's some chemical disposable ones that claim 8hrs, plenty to stop my boots getting too cold overnight and even be stuffed into a pocket to warm me up as we set off. Do these put out enough heat though to actually make a difference in such conditions? The other option is the Zippo style ones that use lighter fluid. From what I can gather they put out more heat, and I've never been a fan of disposable stuff. My main concern with these though is the thought of potential carbon monoxide buildup. Is this likely be actually be an issue or am I just worrying about nothing? Kinda tempted to just buy a couple and burn them in an enclosed space with a CO alarm.

Thanks for any help you can give on these points. Any other tips to make a trip more comfortable for someone accustomed to a duvet and warm cup of coffee waiting in the morning is appreciated.

In reply to Dheorl:

OK, I will bite.

Are you cut out for mountaineering?

IIRC was not a book by a hardcore alpinist entitled " The Art of Suffering " ?

In reply to Rick Graham:

So I can't like getting a good nights sleep but also want to go up a mountain? Didn't know there was a rule that you had to force yourself to be uncomfortable. Sure, I understand that some discomfort is inevitable, but frankly trying to insinuate that I'm not "cut out" to do something that I love is just being a giant ass and really pisses me off. Hey ho, it's the internet, I should expect no less.

To me, for someone who is used to alpine climbs, where huts are virtually always an option, they seemed like perfectly reasonable questions.

Got any actual constructive input?

In reply to Dheorl:

Where are you going? In the Alps the odd turd seems to be tolerated and it won't be cold enough to worry about boots if they are in your tent near your sleeping bag.

In reply to Dheorl:

Was actually trying to be helpful , in a roundabout indirect way.

Have always been a fan of the "light is right" approach, some compromise on comfort is inevitable.

In reply to MG:

Going to North America. The odd turd is most definitely not tolerated and I've been told to bring a -15C bag by the people I'm going with so I imagine cold enough to, if not actually freeze boots, still make them cold enough that they'd be much nicer warmer. The extra 50g for a handwarmer or two (assuming they work, hence asking here) will be easily offset by a more spritely start in the morning.

In reply to Rick Graham:
God knows how asking if I was "cut out for it" was meant to be helpful, just came across as being a douche, but w/e.

Poo bags isn't something I'm allowed to compromise on, so am interested in the best system and best way to use it. If you see not getting shit smeared over your gear as unnecessary comfort then remind me to avoid ever taking a trip with you.

The boot thing, as mentioned, seems like a reasonable trade. The mental boost of warm boots in the morning will more than make up for the 50g of weight if they work. I specifically stated in both the OP and my reply I understand that some discomfort is inevitable.

In reply to Dheorl:

This book has everything you need to know about wilderness poo, and used copies are v cheap: https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Shit-Woods-Environmentally-Approach/dp/0898156...

As for the camping side: The recent UKC article on winter camping hits most of the important points.

In reply to Dheorl:


Not Denali, per chance?

In reply to Lusk:

Nope, sticking to the main 48.

In reply to davidbeynon:

I did have a read through that article, but it seemed more based around the UK and their only suggestion for boots was bring them inside. I'm expecting it to be below freezing inside the tent so am wondering if there is any further steps I can take, specifically the thought of handwarmers in them.

In reply to Dheorl:

Being a dog owner, I'm glad when it's frosty. I do a shit collection every morning when they look like a Vikings helmet. Buy me a ticket to come with you and I'll collect yours too.

In reply to Dheorl:
When it is really cold I tent to bash as much of the ice off them as I can, bring them into the tent and put them close to me. If it is consistently cold then this might be made a lot easier/less nasty as they are less likely to get wet.

The hand warmers I have used don't really put out enough heat to help much with a frozen boot. The old nalgene bottle filled with hot water and stuck in a sock trick can make them toasty warm but you need to be careful not to overdo it - too much direct heat can allegedly be bad for them.

In reply to Dheorl:

Put your boots in a plastic bag (to keep your sleeping bag dry) and put them either under your knees or down at the bottom of your sleeping bag along with your water bottle and gas canisters. Makes you wonder whether there's enough room for you to fit in sometimes.

In reply to davidbeynon:

Thanks for the thoughts. I was planning on using them as a pillow base with something fluffy on top (I like fairly high pillows), but might sorta curling around them as I imagine that will put out more warmth.

What type of handwarmer did you try? Just so I can discount them as a possible option.

In reply to OwenM:

Thanks for the tips. I pretty much fill the entire length of my bag so there's no room at the feet, but under my knees, especially outside the bag, is a potential option.

In reply to Dave the Rave:

Carry a yurt, stove, camp bed, warm blankets and cook my dinner for me and you might have a deal

In reply to Dheorl:

Watched someone sitting in a hut trying to get a handwarmer going, genuinely expected to need a bowl of water from the kitchen with the amount of lighter fluid he got everywhere! The warm nalgene bottle option mentioned above is probably a good bet, you don't need them to be toasty warm in the morning, just a couple of degrees above freezing would probably do!

In reply to spenser:

Yea, they do look a bit fiddly, but I figure practise and doing it outside the tent and I would hopefully be alright.

I'm wondering about a handwarmer rather than a hot nalgene because in my experience it's normally easier to stop something freezing in the first place than it is thaw it, and a nalgene that's hot enough to stay warm all night might be a bit on the warm side to be putting into boots at the start.

In reply to Dheorl:

If you insulate it by sticking it inside a pair of thick socks it will probably be ok. Not really got the time to sit around and do the calculations but I reckon there's probably more energy in a litre of water at 80 degrees than one of those handwarmers.
You can also get solid fuel handwarmers, I seem to remember buying one a few years ago but never used it.

In reply to Dheorl:
the air activated ones that look a bit like like tea bags in sealed packets are crap. I have never had good results from them.

The sodium acetate crystalisation type you boil up are much more effective at moderate temperatures but I suspect they may spontaneously solidify if you get them too cold. Boiling one up then putting it in the freezer to see what happens would be a good way to check.

I have never used the lighter fuel type.

In reply to Dheorl:


Which bag were you talking about ? sorry, couldn't resist

In reply to davidbeynon:


Are you still referring to poo?

In reply to Dell:

If it's cold enough you can use em as wind chimes.

In reply to davidbeynon:

On the poo topic, in some Ranger stations in the US they hand out specific kits for you to use that have all the required bits, so you could take a look at those for ideas.
http://www.mount-whitney.com/hiking_backpacking_mt_whitney/mt_whitney_wag_b...

When we organised it ourselves, we bought the heaviest duty bin bags we could find, used one to line a bucket, put in some cat litter, and then used the bucket for no2 only. It was below zero though, so that worked out OK.

In reply to davidbeynon:
I did try and read that book but didn't find it that good; too much filler and difficult to digest.

much better is an easy to follow, for those in need of a quick summary, handy reference flow chart typathing:
http://semi-rad.com/2013/05/pooping-in-the-outdoors-a-flow-chart/

In reply to Removed UserRockarch:

Yea, for the mountains I'm looking at you can get poo bags, just wondering how they compare to home-made systems or if there's any additions that can be made to improve usability.

I'm almost debating getting a proper drybag as the outer bag purely so I can biner it to the outside of my bag easier.

In reply to davidbeynon:


I had to read this twice to establish just what you were referring to...

Edit. I see that confused Dell too.

In reply to Dheorl:

The bags they give out are purpose designed so a lot easier than a DIY version. As I recall, you open it out more or less flat, poo on it,then fold up and seal. Partly depends if you're on the move or have a base camp and if you have to buy them yourself?

In reply to jon:
I hoped it was obvious I had done poo and moved on to boots.

For the record I do not advocate using frozen poo as a pillow or putting it in your sleeping bag.