UKH

Dear All,
I'm looking for someone in the know about possible career opportunities for MLTA certified mountain leaders. After much thought, I've recently packed in my job as a teacher with a view to doing the ML (Summer) and IML courses over the next few years. However, I've found good advice on what options are available once completing these two hard to come by. My main question concerns working abroad - I've spent most of my adult life living overseas, mainly in the Southwest of the USA - and, in the longterm, I'd like to think that the above qualifications might allow me to lead groups in the national parks, wilderness areas and mountain ranges of the US for a certain amount of time each year (I know, due to visa restrictions any more than a few months p/a is unlikely). Does anyone know if this is at all feasible, or am I being unrealistic to think the opportunity for this kind of work exists for UK-based mountain leaders?
Any info or advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated,
Korin

In reply to schneibe9: I'd suggest checking with the authorities responsible for wilderness areas and NPs in the USA whether they recognise the International Mountain Leader because neither the USA (nor Canada, for that matter) are members of UIMLA. I'd also contact the British Association of International Mountain Leaders (BAIML) directly to clarify their current understanding of the countries acceding to the Union of International Mountain Leaders (UIMLA), to see if the situation is likely to change with respect to the USA.

The other element I would draw your attention to would be the conditions imposed by insurers on professional leaders operating in the USA and Canada. A number of insurers exclude the USA and Canada, while others impose larger premiums.

The registration for the IML is done by Mountain Leader Training (formerly MLTUK), with training and assessment course undertaken by MLT approved providing organisations (Plas y Brenin & Glenmore Lodge).

The Mountain Leader Training Association is the organisation which MLT founded to help holders of its awards, and those preparing for training and assessment, with CPD and other benefits; having membership of the MLTA doesn't 'certify' a mountain leader. However, MLTA membership is an excellent way of gaining and demonstrating awareness of current good practice, developing skills and knowledge, as well as access to concessionary support from a number of equipment suppliers.

The ML (Summer) is gained by having satisfactorily passed an assessment by a provider approved by one of the UK Board providers (MLTE, MLTW, MLTS & MLTNI).

Information about the ML(Summer) and IML is to be found on the MLT website - http://www.mltuk.org/

The British Association of International Mountain Leaders is the UK professional association for IMLs - http://www.baiml.org/

Good luck!

In reply to Dee: Thanks JIB - just the kind of advice I've been looking for. Would you recommend mountain leading as a career? What are the pros/cons? Again, any info/advice you can give me is greatly appreciated - I've done my research online but it'd be good to hear from someone who's actually out there doing it,
Thanks, Korin

In reply to schneibe9: ML(s) as a career is prob going to be a struggle (but doable), if you can get up to MIA then you get some more options.

To be honest I'm not that up on IML career prospects, but seems to be a qualification that is very much on the rise.

For me it's a lifestyle choice. For example I spent the day taking kids climbing at Dancing Ledge in Swanage, in the sun and getting paid for it. I love it.

In reply to schneibe9: I'd do a search of the UKC threads about becoming an instructor, there's been a number of excellent and useful responses scattered across threads. The best advice I can give is to have a good look at the different perspectives and experiences in those responses, it's a very personal thing.

In reply to schneibe9: It should be noted that only the International Mountain Leader and Mountain Guide qualifications are for use abroad. The ML, ML winter, MIA and MIC qualifications are specifically designed for UK environments only, though obviously skills are largely transferable they are not recognised abroad.

If you really wanted to go into the outdoor profession in a big way, id recommend the mountain guide, takes a few years (at least) normally but covers practically everything and is the highest you can go. I have heard it joked you get a free divorce with this qualification though as its pretty hardcore and full time (you'd usually work at a resort or such getting the experience you need). The other much easier option being International Mountain Guide, but its heavily restricted compared with guide, with lots of activities being outside its remit. Depends what you want to end up leading.

The other major consideration I would think about is your relying completly on your body for your income, like footballers or anything else if you become injured you could be out of action for months or even longer. Case in point I currently have achilles tendonitis, it does not affect me that much day to day in my job (which does involve a small degree of activity and walking), but completly rules out mountain sports.

Good luck in your endevours

In reply to Anonymous: The other much easier option being International Mountain LEADER, but its heavily restricted compared with guide, with lots of activities being outside its remit. Depends what you want to end up leading.

Edit*

In reply to schneibe9:

Being a mountain guide is the only way to make decent money. You can expect to make €300 to €350 a day in the Alps and have your expenses paid by the client. However, the summer season lasts about 3 months. You'd have to do ski instructing/touring and Scottish guiding in the summer to supplement your income. In fact you'd have to do guiding all over the shop all year round to make a nice living out of it.

Obviously you have to be a shit hot all-round mountain God too. Leading comfortably about E3, Alpine TD/ED and a decent skier. It's not easy, and perhaps more importantly for most who do have the ability, it's not cheap.

In reply to schneibe9:

Hi Korin,

I'm an ML (Summer) and an aspirant IML. I work part time as a freelance mountaineering and expedition leader in the UK and overseas (Europe, South America, Africa, Asia). I've also got an office job to earn enough money to pay the bills! My aim is to take early retirement in a few years with a reasonable pension and supplement that with my freelance earnings.

I've found that I can get quite a bit of work with just my ML, and surprisingly, more than I have the 'free' time to do. I do this by contracting with 'adventure travel' companies to lead their clients on UK & overseas trips. Through this I've met many other leaders who are doing the same as me. However, I've not yet met anyone with just an ML who's making their living entirely through this route - although that's not to say it's not possible.

I choose to work freelance on contract to other companies because I avoid all the admin hassle. I just turn up and take people on a journey. I know others who have set up their own businesses to do the lot - that's not for me. That involves loads of hard work doing your own admin, marketing, advertising, getting clients, etc.

For me the IML award gives an extra edge to secure more contracts and that qualification is also what I need to work as a Mountain Leader (accompagnateur de moyenne montagne) in France (my wife wants us to retire there); where it's a legal requirement for leading in mountainous, non-glaciated environments. The glaciated areas are the exclusive domain of the Mountain Guide (aka 'Mountain God' as noted by others earlier!). France also has other requirements, e.g. equivalence, but that's another story!

However, I've not yet met anyone who works in the USA with UK/International qualifications. The USA is a member of the IFMGA (the Mountain Guides professional association) but all the guides I've come across seem to work mainly in Europe or the Greater Ranges (e.g. the Himalayas).

So, to answer your questions!

Like you, I found good advice on options hard to come by. I gained this by going through the process of gaining my ML and by hours of Googling followed by countless emails to travel companies touting my services. From all my searching about Mountain Leader job opportunities I've never come across anything to do with the USA. What I do find worth noting is that the IML insurance policy (through BAIML) specifically excludes work in the USA!

What I would suggest is that you contact either Plas y Brenin (www.pyb.co.uk) or Glenmore Lodge (www.glenmorelodge.org.uk) and speak to the folks there. They're both National Centres full of massively qualified and experienced people who will be best able to give you the advice and guidance you seek.

Good luck!

Yours,

Steve

It's worth keeping an eye on the developments at the UIAA - Steve Long at MLT is involved in a number of interesting UIAA developments which will have considerable positive outcomes for UK award holders, you'll find updates and reports on the UIAA website and Steve's Twitter.

For myself, NZOIA have devised a new programme to allow overseas instructors to progress and cross-credit their UK quals to the NZ equivalents (Migrant Instructor Learning Course) - the ML(s) & SPA are quite similar to the NZOIA Bush 1 & Rock 1 respectively.

Another source of useful information is to be found via the MLTA Regional Groups - these informal meets are great for finding out contacts...and contracts!

Steve, should be back from NZ late Dec, so another MLTA Snowdonia New Year Meet?

There is a MLTA Regional Meet scheduled for Scotland 19-20 June (contact Al Halewood - posts here as AlH); a Regional Meet for the SE England took place on the 9 May.

More details on the MLTA Regional Groups Forum hosted on the MLTA website -Please note you need to be a member of MLTA to gain access to all areas of the website...

In reply to Dee:

Hi Jan,

Saw your post on MLTA re 2010/11 meet. Sounds good. See you then.

Yours,

Steve

In reply to schneibe9: On the very narrow point about working in the USA

I read an article a few years ago somewhere... but it chimed with my own experiance of the US national parks (US National Forests are probably different)

The only one legally allowed to guide/instruct/lead in a US national park are employees of the Concessions authorised by the Park Service eg Exum mountain guides and Jackson Hole Guides in G Teton.

Unsurprisingly these concessions cost money and the employees are the losers. GUIDING rates for the GT are prob half that of Mont Blanc.

However these companies have a fair bit of very seasonal work and its clearly possible to sub contract. Though the paper work must be interesting and the insurance position even more so....

As an aside I met a lad who took youngsters from a summer camp technical climbing inthe winds rivers, no hassle a lot of fun and probably allowed because thesummer camp folk prob had no idea what they were up to!

In reply to schneibe9: Everyone,
Many thanks for your advice - I've learned more from these responses than I have from dozens of hours of googling and making phonecalls! Gutted that working in the US doesn't seem to be on the cards (the US, west of Texas, is my favourite part of the world) but I could definitely settle for working in the UK and elsewhere until the VISA-gods let me move across the pond!K