UKH

U.K. ‘lesser’ rounds

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 tom s 20 Jun 2021

Anyone have a list of good value fell rounds other than the big 3 ? 
cheers

Tom 

1
In reply to tom s:

The Etive Round looks like a hell of a day out! Reckons the midges alone would encourage a good continuous time on that loop… 

https://www.gofar.org.uk/etive-munros

 Slackboot 20 Jun 2021
 Myfyr Tomos 20 Jun 2021
In reply to tom s:

How about the Meirionnydd Round in southern Eryri? It includes a full length traverse of the Rhinogydd! https://www.gofar.org.uk/meirionnydd-round

A variant on this - slightly shorter, is the Mawddach Watershed run. Starting and finishing on Barmouth Bridge but missing out the northern section of the Meirionnydd (Benllyn, Llyfnant, Arenig and the hills north of the A4212)

1
 mattyP 20 Jun 2021
In reply to tom s:

As posted above the Gofar site is probably you best resource. 
 

This has a few on as well. https://fastestknowntime.com/
 

And a browse of the LDWA site might herald something

In reply to tom s:

Rigby Round in the Cairngorms. Think there’s a few write ups of it you can find via google.

 DaveHK 20 Jun 2021
In reply to tom s:

I accidentally did the old crown round and rather enjoyed it. https://www.walkingenglishman.com/ldp/oldcrownround.html

Other things that spring to mind are the Round of Loch Mullardoch, The Torridon round, Glen Shiel round, Glen Coe round and of course Tranter's.

All much shorter than the big 3 but great days out.

In reply to tom s:

Got chatting to a bloke while out in kinder yesterday and he was telling me about a challenge he invented back in the day called the kinder dozen, it looks tough 24 miles circa 10,000 ft of climbing but I’m going to have a stab at it this summer. 

 GDes 20 Jun 2021
In reply to mbh:

Dartmoor 600 is a great route, wild and empty.

The dartmoor north to South, whilst not a round, is a superb route. 

 Denning76 20 Jun 2021
In reply to Levy_danny:

Don't do the dozen in the summer. The bracken is horrendous on the climbs at that time of year and you'll just hate yourself. Good time out once the bracken is gone though.

Perhaps the more 'roundy' Peak one would be the 15 trigs. Think someone did an extended version of 25 trigs though which would be a real challenge to get done in under 24 hours.

 Myfyr Tomos 20 Jun 2021
In reply to mbh:

The Indianapolis 500 is pretty spectacular as well...  😜

 Exile 20 Jun 2021
In reply to tom s:

There is a Howgills tops one (don't know the official name) and the Ullswater sky line is also very good (apparently.) 

 J101 20 Jun 2021
In reply to tom s:

The Rum hills is a good day out, usually very quiet and if you start by heading to Barkeval and then finish from Sgurr Nan Gillean (not that one) by heading towards and then down Ruincival to Harris it's a pretty big day. Only downside is you then have the 13km walk back from Harris to Kinloch on the track but it's good for stretching your legs back out after the ascent and descent of the hills.

Post edited at 15:19
 ablackett 20 Jun 2021
In reply to tom s:

I ran with Andy Berry as he took about 8 or 9 hours off the record for the Steve Parr Round of all the lakeland peaks above 2500' yesterday.  He finished in 33:45:49.

https://www.gofar.org.uk/steve-parr-round

I'm not sure that by any definition that could be described as a 'lesser' round though.

 plyometrics 20 Jun 2021
In reply to Exile:

Think it’s known as the Harvey Howgills Tops. 

Others in Cumbria are ‘Abraham’s Tea Round’ and the new ‘23 Before Tea’: https://www.elterwaterhostel.co.uk/23before-tea-a-new-challenge-for-runners-in-the-lakes/

Not a round, but there’s also the Cumbrian Traverse. 

In reply to Denning76:

Great advice, when would you have a go? Spring or Autumn?

 Denning76 20 Jun 2021
In reply to Levy_danny:

I've only done it (and the Kinder Kiler) in spring, though I am well aware of how sad the bracken can be when high. I'm sure it would be fine in spring/late autumn/winter, just as long as the bracken is low or gone.

Post edited at 20:52
 static266 20 Jun 2021
In reply to tom s:

Make one up yourself. I’ve got a 60 miler and a 200 miler that I’ve started recce-ing close to me in North Wales that follow obvious features or logical rounds of summits that haven’t been documented as far as I know. 

 DaveHK 20 Jun 2021
In reply to static266:

> Make one up yourself. 

This.

In reply to tom s:

> Anyone have a list of good value fell rounds other than the big 3 ? 

Great thread, some good ideas and suggestions too - has the makings of an amazing article...

It's quite a timely too, as I'd been thinking about this a lot recently, partly because of what to do next after the Bob Graham, but also because of Ross Jenkin's inspired decision to include the Denis Rankin Round within his 'Big Four' (as if doing all three wasn't hard enough!?).

I'm not actually sure what the definition of a 'round' is - or whether there is one (or needs to be on, aside from it starting and ending in the same place) - but from the suggestions made there's probably three different categories: big, medium and small. The following list is pretty loose and has no specific criteria beyond gut feeling. 

I'll keep adding to it, with aim to putting together a more detailed article, with a bit more info on each. 

Feel free to keep posting any ideas up in the meanwhile.

Big

  • Charlie Ramsay Round
  • Paddy Buckley Round
  • Bob Graham Round
  • Rigby Round
  • Greater Torridon Round
  • Etive Munros Round
  • Meirionnydd Round

Medium

  • Tranter Round
  • Abraham's Tea Round
  • Rosedale Circuit
  • 15 Trigs 

Small

  • Kinder Dozen/Killer
  • Dartmoor 600s
  • Corris Round

note: I've intentionally left out end-to-end routes/challenges such as the Cumbrian Traverse + Welsh 3000ers to prevent the list from becoming unmanageably huge, but there'd potentially be another to be done on those - albeit at a later date

 Nic Barber 21 Jun 2021
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

I'd look more at time taken than distance. e.g. I wouldn't  lump the Tranter in with ATR, the Tranter record is about double the ATR IIRC. Likewise comparing the Tranter ground to that of the Rosedale Circuit might give people the wrong idea.

Cairngorm 4000's, Cairngorm Big 6 probably fit in the 'medium', Steve Parr Lakes 2500's and the Mourne's Dennis Rankin Round in the Big. 

A point-to-point article might have some scope in the future - Scottish 4000's (bike or run the A86?), Cumbrian Traverse, Lyke Wake, Marsden to Edale and many more I don't know about I assume.

In reply to Nic Barber:

> I'd look more at time taken than distance. e.g. I wouldn't  lump the Tranter in with ATR, the Tranter record is about double the ATR IIRC. Likewise comparing the Tranter ground to that of the Rosedale Circuit might give people the wrong idea.

Don't see this as set in stone - I literally threw it all together in sixty seconds.

As/when we come round to putting together an article (and when I have more bandwidth) I'll actually do a proper job of it

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Good list Rob, and though I'm unlikely to do any of them at running (shuffling) pace, I'm a big fan of this sort of thing done with a tent or bivvy bag (or just as a very long single day's walk - it's not just runners who can cover a lot of ground). It does seem to make sense to categorise them into small, medium and large. 

On UKH we have a long-running series on this sort of thing, The Big Routes. For the purposes of this discussion these are all small or medium, except for the Greater Torridon Round  - see today's article:

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/destinations/the_big_routes_greater_torridon_round-13709

Among the others in the series you've got smaller classics like:

Fisherfield Six https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/destinations/the_big_routes_fisherfield_six-13567

Old Crown Round https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/destinations/the_big_routes_old_crown_round_a_circuit_of_the_northern_fells-13025

Mamores Traverse (roughly half a Tranter) https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/destinations/the_big_routes_traverse_of_the_mamores-13047

Lochaber Traverse (also roughly half a Tranter) https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/destinations/the_big_routes_lochaber_traverse-8313

Lakeland 3000-ers (in this case adding some extra fells for more value) https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/destinations/the_big_routes_lakeland_3000-ers_plus_a_few-5571

All the Kintail Munros https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/destinations/the_big_routes_all_the_kintail_munros-9295

Mullardoch round https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/destinations/the_big_routes_the_mullardoch_round-9639

There's loads of others of course:

Welsh 3000s https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/destinations/how_to_do_the_welsh_3000s_challenge-12857

Cairngorm 4000s

Loch Monar cuircuit https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/destinations/lap_of_loch_monar-3687

Torridon Munros plus Beinn Dearg

Patterdale Parish Boundary https://www.ukhillwalking.com/logbook/r/?i=840 

Glen Coe skyline (it was a thing long before the race)

Fannaichs traverse

Trotternish Ridge

S.Cluanie Ridge and The Saddle

I'm biased but I'd say Scotland has the lion's share of the big(ish) logical hill rounds for runners and ambitious walkers. Plug alert - I wrote a book with 50 of them, Great Mountain Days in Scotland

Post edited at 11:03
 riverz 21 Jun 2021
In reply to Levy_danny:

The best time is just before the fresh bracken starts to regrow so all the old bracken has had time to degrade over winter and is easiest to run through. Normally this is around the end of April, but you could have done the Dozen end of May this year and it would have been fine.

Post edited at 13:48
 Exile 21 Jun 2021
In reply to tom s:

I know Dan has just added it but the Welsh 3000s as a run is amazing. 

 tlouth7 21 Jun 2021
In reply to Levy_danny:

A friend of mine has ben running the Kinder Dozen as practice ahead of a Bob Graham attempt. Most recently on the 19th of June and in record (for him) time so the bracken can't be too bad yet.

 patrick_b 21 Jun 2021
In reply to tom s:

Some of the longer fell races are nice as independent rounds, e.g. Old County Tops. 

Then there's the classic Lakes point to point challenges like the Joss Naylor challenge (albeit technically age-specific).

But I agree with others above, the best is to create something yourself that inspires you. A couple of us combined the Yorkshire 3 Peaks with the Wharfedale 3 Peaks a few years back to form the Yorkshire 6 - a great day out!

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

try my blog. I've listed my challenges for:

scotland - http://longdistancechallenges.blogspot.com/p/scotland-2.html

lakes and wales - http://longdistancechallenges.blogspot.com/p/lakes-and-wales.html

Lots to go at there! Got to have the cuillin round in there and the fisherfield one is a good one too.  My 40@40 makes a good alternative to the BG with very little crossover.

 Marek 21 Jun 2021
In reply to static266:

If you're not wedded to a 'named' round you can always try what we used to do for MM training: Pick an reasonably open area (e.g., Lakes, Peak, Wales...), pick half a dozen features and then roll a dice to dictate the order in which they have to be visited. It'll certainly take you off the beaten track!

 mattyP 21 Jun 2021
In reply to tom s:

There’s some belting ideas on this list. I think I might have a punt at the Patterdale parish boundary on Saturday....

 TMM 21 Jun 2021
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

For your medium list you could try the 'Dartmoor 500'.

https://fastestknowntime.com/route/dartmoor-500-united-kingdom

102Km

3400m height gain

Starting and finishing at the Warren House Inn (on the B3212), visit all 52 of the tors on Dartmoor that are at least 500m above sea level, in a sequence of your choosing. If the highest outcrop is not summited (e.g., if it's too technical), you can run the long way around the back of the tor.

 ablackett 21 Jun 2021
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Surprisingly often overlooked the Steve Parr Round of all the 2500' fells in the Lakes has had a couple of completions in the last 12 months.  Andy Berry did it last week in 33h 45min 59 seconds, Friday 0400 - Saturday 1445, taking 9h 10min off the record.

https://www.gofar.org.uk/steve-parr-round

Post edited at 20:14
In reply to ablackett:

> Surprisingly often overlooked the Steve Parr Round of all the 2500' fells in the Lakes has had a couple of completions in the last 12 months.  Andy Berry did it last week in 33h 45min 59 seconds, Friday 0400 - Saturday 1445, taking 9h 10min off the record.https://www.gofar.org.uk/steve-parr-round

The fact that this is over 24 hours must mean that the Lakes record for most fells in 24 hours doesn't include all the 2500' fells. That sort of surprised me - I wonder which ones it (so far) leaves out.

In reply to Michael Hood:

off the top of my head ( I could be wrong) I think High Street 2500 peaks and Coniston 2500 peaks.

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Nice list Rob… couple more Scotland ‘mediums’:

Mullardoch round ~ 50km 

Ring of Sheil (obvious loop linking five sisters and brothers + s sheil and saddle) 

Then there’s the various cuillin greater/supertraverses (though maybe point to point) and a few way over 24hr monsters like the Loch Lomond round. 

 ablackett 22 Jun 2021
In reply to Michael Hood:

The current lakes 24h record (109 miles, 39,000') is a little shorter than the Steve Parr (116miles, 42,000').  It would be fair to say that Kim Collinson could take a chunk off the Steve Parr record  if he put his mind to it.  

The rules about which peaks you can add are fairly strict.

 

"a contender must either traverse the same peaks as the current Record holder in a faster time.

or traverse the same peaks plus at least 1 additional peak. 

For these purposes:

a peak must be over 2000 feet high. 

be at least 0.25 of a mile away from the nearest other peak on the round.

involve at least 250 feet of descent/re-ascent from the nearest other peak on the round."

So people just add in the easiest extra one, which is why it doesn't include the Coniston fells for example.

In reply to ablackett:

> So people just add in the easiest extra one, which is why it doesn't include the Coniston fells for example.

Your use of the word "easiest" is really quite funny in this context when you think of the extra effort required to go "just" one better 😁

IIRC, some of the existing peaks in the 24h don't fit the distance or descent/re-ascent criteria but are included from the historical perspective; i.e. they were included in the then current record before the criteria were firmed up and so have been retained.

Roadrunner6 25 Jun 2021
In reply to tom s:

Beddgelert Parish Bounds is a great one. It's half a paddy buckley but much rougher terrain.

I was going to write it up as an FKT but I have no reliable data, I ran it pre GPS on a stop watch and ran 9:59. Maybe I will just so it gets some attention.

Math Roberts tried to break it last year but I think had nav issues or hot weather.

https://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showthread.php?3073-Bounds-of-Beddgelert

 blackcat 26 Jun 2021
In reply to tom s:

Otley run is a good round ,legs start to buckle by end of it tho.

In reply to tom s:

What about a round of Cornwall? 285 miles ish on the SW coast path plus the Tamar valley…..

actually - quite a few costal rounds must’ve doable?

In reply to Dr.S at work:

Not exactly 'minor' is it?  I supported Dave Cudby and Stu Musson for a small part of the way when they did just the north coast stretch a few years ago. 145 miles, 25,000 ft ascent and it took them the best part of 48 hours, I think, subsequently bettered (in winter!) by their mate, the awesome Wendy Chapman, who'd also given them a hand. Steve Wyatt has the FKT, as far as I know, at 41 hours or so.

That's just the north coast.

In reply to Dr.S at work:

More doable in one go, for Cornwall, are rounds of the West Penwith and Lizard coast paths.

A West Penwith round would be very hard, a well-timed one of the Lizard would involve a bit of creek wading.

In reply to mbh:

What are you, soft?

Yes those options closer to the tip catch the eye, Pembroke and Llyn must be good options as well - and as for the west Coast of Scotland - oodles

 Wainers44 26 Jun 2021
In reply to mbh:

> More doable in one go, for Cornwall, are rounds of the West Penwith and Lizard coast paths.

> A West Penwith round would be very hard, a well-timed one of the Lizard would involve a bit of creek wading.

Sort of done the Penwith one by doing the Arc50,  which is the "fun run" version of the Arc100. A nice February day out in West Cornwall. Porthcurno, Minack stage to Porthtowan.  Undulating. 

Surprised that the other West Country classic hasn't been mentioned,  the Dartmoor Perambulation. A 50 mile grand day out over the best worst parts of the moor. The section from Limsboro Cairn to Deadlake Foot is especially character building.  Steng a Tor to Forsland Ledge is also a bit of a mare. Done it twice as a run. Loved it.

 Forest Dump 26 Jun 2021
In reply to Dr.S at work:

Gower round too

 Tom the tall 26 Jun 2021
In reply to tom s: Don't think it's been mentioned yet, but a nice Lakes route is a combination of 3 different years 10 in 10 challenge routes which raises money for MS research- 

https://10in10.org.uk/events/no-cure-always-hope-ultra-run/

25 peaks, 39 miles, record about 8 hours. Simon Booth (local fell runner) devised it, his brother Duncan has MS and Dunc and Yvonne have raised a boatload of money for MS research with their 10 in 10 events each year.

 Rich K 10 Jul 2021
 ScraggyGoat 10 Jul 2021
In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

Monar round is a really poorer sibling to the Mullardoch Round, the novelty is very few people have done it. Other than yourself I know of no one else who’s done it.

Kintail, plus South Sheil Ridge and Saddle naturally all go together and jump into the big catergory.

Cullin Greater Traverse

More esoteric 

Everything South of the Dee and East of the Tilt including the Glen Eye hills and Benn A’glo  but excluding Mt Keen, puts it in the even bigger category. Or two days each of big.

Round of Glen Lyon.

Variety of things in Knoydart but they never feel like they gel together well.


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