UKH

Potentially a diverting, if not particularly meaningful conversation. If your goal was to find yourself facing a mob of pitchforks, flaming torches and size 6 cams swung like flails, which route in the UK would you go out and bolt overnight?

I'm going to open the floor with Strawberries (E7 6b), only because it was a running joke in my university climbing club.

In reply to neuromancer:

Gaia (E8 6c)

In reply to neuromancer:

You're both thinking far too high-end. A good lynching needs a good mob and so my submission for maximum rage is the epitomy of UKC route focus, Three Pebble Slab (HVS 5a). 

In reply to neuromancer:

Sunset Slab, Three Pebble Slab, Right Unconquerable, Great Slab (Froggatt), Cemetery Gates, Cenotaph Corner. Basically anything on grit or in the mountains, and the more classic and accessible to mortals the better for bonus venom. Other good options I'd guess include anything on Cloggy or the Etive Slabs.

I'm not sure whether you get most points for bolting a bold slabby test piece or a protectable-everywhere hand crack though.

In reply to neuromancer:

Would have to be one of the Stanage classics.  Or even belay bolt every route!

In reply to tehmarks:

I’n gonna say that even worse would be bolting a classic and a tad high boulder. Nothing to high end though. 
 

Or perhaps an iconic route like flying buttress direct

In reply to neuromancer:

I think, if we were trying even harder than Boris Johnson to dissolve the UK and get lynched into the bargain, someone English should go and bolt Left Wall (E2 5c) and Shibboleth (E2 5c).

Edit: during lockdown, obviously.

In reply to tehmarks:

I 'm not sure you would get lynched for grid bolting something like Etive slabs, or even say Tennis Shoe. The lynch mob wouldn't be able to get anywhere near you through the massive army of jubilant supporters thrilled to be released from what  passes as mid grade sport in this country.

I think the reality is that if Etive slabs was bolted (complete with ab stations / wifi /  iphone charging points), you would have to fit turnstiles to control the crowds.

In reply to Jim Lancs:

I really want to refute this with every fibre of my being...but I think you're spot on. And that's really depressing.

In reply to neuromancer:

Right Wall

Reduce a stunning E5 to a good 6b+

In reply to neuromancer:

Actually, I'm going to revise my opinion and go leftfield. If your aim is death rather than vitriol, I'd suggest the quickest way of achieving it might be to go bolt up something — anything — classic in Northumberland. And then time how long it takes the hairy-arsed County brigade to hunt you down and hang you from the nearest bomber hex placement.

In reply to neuromancer:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/stanage_north-99/rons_girdle_trave...
 

In reply to Jim Lancs:

I don't know why but I get the feeling that if the slabs were bolted people probably still wouldn't be that bothered, in the sense that it wouldn't make them immensely more popular rather than people getting angry about bolts being placed. 

It's quite an out the way venue that isn't particularly reliable other than a few times of the season and even less appealing now it seems to be the Central Belts go to fly tipping camp site. Although perhaps some of the routes with very long, run out pitches would see more attention if there was a few spaced bolts (not that I'm advocating that!).

In reply to Nathan Adam:

My point wasn't really about Etive Slabs per se, but the idea that any quality routes that were bolted to become mid grade F6's, would be MASSIVELY popular. Especially if they offered a style (slabs, multipitch, etc) almost unknown in any other UK sport venue.

I accept in reality it would result in untold strife, but I fear that relying on a simple 'show of hands' majority not to bolt mountain crags will prove insufficient to preserve the trad heritage. 

In reply to Jim Lancs:

I mean, if you went into the average gym, gathered a quorum of climbers, showed them a photo of Cenotaph Corner and asked them if they hoped there was a line of bolts up it - I suspect you have the right guess!

In reply to neuromancer:

I presume the lynching would be conducted from the offending bolts? Swing em high from The Old Man of Hoy, let the fulmars eat their eyeballs and the sun bleach their bones.

In reply to neuromancer:

I'd say aim for a good crack climb with loads of bomber nut and hex placements or even threads for slings. Bonus points for placing the bolts to prevent people using any cruxial holds.

In reply to MischaHY:

...then people would be too busy arguing whether it was 5 or 5+

In reply to Carless:

6b+  You say ? 

Hmmm..... < twizzles handle bar moustache , pushses tweed cap to back of head >

hmmmmmm.....< takes pull on pipe > 

hmmmmmmmmm..........

In reply to alan moore:

 it would be 4 anyway  

In reply to ianstevens:

Better start a separate thread for that one!

In reply to neuromancer:

I'd offer THE iconic route from the eighties...

Indian Face

And then I'd go and p**s in Johnny Dawes' rockboots.

Runs for the hills.............

Can you imagin how polished the start would get with every punter and his dog wanting to say they'd done it (without telling their mates that they'd dogged it all the way to the top!)

In reply to althesin:

If you were hung from the last set of bolt on the old man of hoy you'd probably be bobbing around in the sea...

In reply to neuromancer:

This is a trick question isn't it?
Shivers Arete (E1 5b)

In reply to neuromancer:

Actually Strawberries WAS bolted briefly, or rather some wag (I believe a PyB cook) abbed down and glued some sawn off bolt heads alongside the crack.  Needless to say they didn't stay there for long

In reply to neuromancer:

Valkyrie at Froggat 

Oh. hang on; it's already got a bolt!

In reply to neuromancer:

Crescent arete. It's a boulder problem, it's a bit high, it's really famous and all the ramblers will see it 🙂

In reply to neuromancer:

I think you are approaching this all wrong, you need to think about the dynamics of a lynch mob. It would either;

1. Need to be somewhere with a sufficient critical mass of potential participants who would be sufficiently incensed to carry out the aforementioned lynching. Or
2. You would have to attract the ire of a figure with sufficient charisma and social media presence to organise a demo close enough to your house and then once the angry mob are sufficiently riled suggest they 'take a walk' up your drive.

In reply to alan moore:

Easy, it’s French 4d! 

In reply to neuromancer:

Enjoying this thread, but as a couple of people have said we need to annoy a cohort who take themselves seriously, so as an alternative let's chop all the bolts on Malham and publish a pious justification about leaving routes for a better generation etc 

In reply to neuromancer:

So no one has suggested a Cornish route, too soon? 

If I was aiming to wind people up maybe a couple of perma-draws on Flying Butress Direct at Stanage?

In reply to Reach>Talent:

Many years ago I  had the germ of an idea about sticking (blutack) some hangers on Demo Route in Sennen

In reply to artif:

If it were me, I would choose a crag with more potential escape routes for that trick. You only need 3 people with pitchforks to cut that area off.

I remember the rage when someone blutacked a hanger to Sunset slab. 

In reply to DD72:

Brilliant! - Thank you for that. Martin

In reply to neuromancer:

Fluted Columns or Birds Nest Crack at Almscliffe.... Bolted at night

Double for pissing of the land owner to

In reply to deacondeacon:

Crescent arete sprung to mind for me. 

How about green traverse or something totally pointless to bolt too? 

Or a low crux route with clip above. Sulky little boys etc. 

Or maybe man made. The cenotaph? Etc. It's all disrespectful vandalism really. 

In reply to Kevster:

I’d bolt something like Agags Groove on the Buchaille if I really wanted to upset people

In reply to Jim Lancs:

I don’t think I agree. Maybe Etive would become a bit busier but in my mind the main reason crags are popular is dependant on how close they are to the road and how convenient they are to reach, not whether they’re bolted. 

Bolting Carn Mor, as an example, wouldn’t make it any more popular than it is already. Generally speaking I don’t think mountain/trad crags more than 30-45 minutes from the road would be anymore popular with bolts in them, most definitely not with only bolted belays (again, not an advocation). I think “trad heritage” is well and truly safe in the UK with the current and future generations and the accepted ethics. 

In reply to neuromancer:

TPS

In reply to deacondeacon:

Small fry! Go up the slope and desecrate Archangel (E3 5b)

In reply to overdrawnboy:

But its not on the path. I want to annoy the walkers too. 🙂

In reply to neuromancer:

I’ve just set up the stannage bolt find:  www.bolt.stannage.com please give generously 

We’re not going far enough, why not string a line of auto belays along the top, no bolting necessary and no belayer either.

In reply to kipper12:

I've set up a counter fund called "Chop All Stanage Hangers"

I can't accept bank transfers so please send cheques, to save time writing the payee just use the fund's acronym

In reply to neuromancer:

Needs to be anything thats really well protected. Maybe some of the millstone cracks or even better some non quarried cracks.

In reply to neuromancer:

Apparently putting a peg on gogarth routes will do it

In reply to raussmf:

A well placed bolt on Right Unconquerable would make it accessible to a lot more leaders.

We could do in the spirit of a memorial to Joe Brown, maybe even put a plaque by it?

In reply to deacondeacon:

I'm not sure how easy either crescent are or archangel would be to actually clip even if bolted ?

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

As long as it was difficult to reach, it might be a fitting replacement for the old chockstone?

In reply to GrahamD:

Definitely fine. You can take your left hand off to come your hair on them if you wanted to. 

And that's before I mention clip sticks 😂

In reply to dinodinosaur:

This, and the suggestion of the Cenotaph need more love.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Way above my ability level, I'm afraid.

In reply to EdS:

I thought we were already doing a reasonable job of pissing him off, or is that a different landowner?

In reply to Tom Valentine:

same one as far as I know.

My partner and me used to do a couple of evenings per winter in big boots and headtorches at Almscliff -- never had a problem. Spoke to farmer a few time - just seemed to think we were mad climbing in sub 0 

Then along can the peddle huggers and their search lights.......... 

In reply to neuromancer:

Grooved Arete, Tryfan.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Wow. You lowered the bar!

In reply to GrahamD:

I'm sure Crescent Arete wouldn't be. Not with that bolt in it 🙂

In reply to overdrawnboy:

If you did it properly and drilled a hole right through the arete you could thread a nice bright bit of tape that you could clip on the Don too. 

In reply to Kevster:

At least it'd stop the walkers asking if the crashpad is for f*cking camping. 

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Nice to find a flexible thinker, threads are far less contentious than bolts. I reckon two would do with the added benefit of taking the falling leader away from the ledges. 

In reply to neuromancer:

The Boldest (E4 5c) an obvious candidate. 

In reply to MischaHY:

I just say 'Yes'.

In reply to mike123:

No. I refuse to respond...

In reply to Simon King:

Bugger, responded...

In reply to neuromancer:

It’s got to be Deliverance on The Pebble at Plantation. Thus ensuring people can work the dyno continuously without hitting the pads and restarting.

In reply to Jim Lancs:

I don't remember any chockstone, and certainly Brown led it without. Ask Gordon, I'm sure he has a copy of the photo!

In reply to deacondeacon:

Long time since I've done Crescent Arete so erosion may have changed the character a bit, but if I remember correctly it's all about careful foot placement and even more so, complete confidence in them sticking.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Well I do (although my memory isn't perfect these days). I'm sure in the mid 70s there was a chockstone well back. It was the only time owning a steel screwgate was an actual advantage as when you lobbed the sling over, the heavy karabiner swung back out to you with ease. 

I appreciate that Brown probably didn't bother, but even pre-friends, I remember there being about three bits of gear in the route.

In reply to neuromancer:

Grid bolt Froggatt from Long John's Left-Hand to Toy Boy, that'll sort them (also Salmon Wall at Bamford).

And any consternation regarding destroying this great run of bold grit slabs in the Peak can be countered with the enthusiastic bolters' comeback, "What's the fuss, if you want to enjoy the original just don't clip the bolts"!

In reply to neuromancer:

Surely the only correct answer to this is Indian Face. Because of the history and overall story... And the fact that it would become a hard but not desperately desirable slab...

In reply to beardy mike:

Infact, just gridbolt Cloggy.

In reply to beardy mike:

With cheap day return tickets available to Clogwyn Station, with its new toilets, cafe and gear shop.

In reply to Jim Lancs:

Dig a tunnel half way up and build a viewing platform so that our sport becomes more accessible to the general public.

In reply to neuromancer:

Cenotaph Corner - but here’s the thing, in New Zealand they have routes of this nature, length and quality AND they bolt them! 

In reply to neuromancer and another errant blu tackers ,.many moons ago somebody I know  < coughs > went up to Bowden doors on the last day of march equipped with a ladder , blu tac and a bolt hanger with a nut and some thread bar resigned together . There is a very blank very  over hanging wall that has a few pock marks very near the start of the crag   . The plan being to blu tack the bolt just out of reach of somebody sat on somebody else’s shoulders . Once  there was know body left at the crag  much key stone coppery ensued over the last hour or two of the fading light . The conclusion ? Blu tac isn’t strong enough to stick anything much to Sandrstone on anything but a slab . 

In reply to neuromancer:

As an old timer once put it to me: "Bolting a classic trad route would be like scrawling a moustache on the Mona Lisa"

In reply to mike123:

Didn’t some wag place two bolts with blue tack/glue on Great Slab at Froggatt approximately 10 years ago???

In reply to MischaHY:

When I’m asked why I’m carrying a “mattress” with me I say I suffer from Narcolepsy and have to take the occasional nap. It shuts them up.

In reply to Tobes:

What crag / routes are you referring to in NZ?

In reply to Francis Charlesworth:

The NZ version of Froggatt is bolted, although it's not really much like the Cromlech (or our Froggatt to be fair).

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/froggatt_edge_waikato-2237

In reply to neuromancer:

Alot of crags at Pembroke would be good sport crags I reckon 🙄...you could escape by boat as well.

In reply to Francis Charlesworth:

Hospital Flats area Wanaka and Chinaman’s Bluff, Glenorchy for a couple of examples 

In reply to Jim Lancs:

Are you thinking of right eliminate? There definitely is (or was at least) a chockstone in it

In reply to Alex@home:

That's 2 bolts needed then

In reply to neuromancer:

As a side whats the most contreversial case of someone actually bolting a line? Apart form Indian face...

In reply to raussmf:

That could well be Cesare Maestri when he placed 400+ bolts on Cerro Torre in Patagonia.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/16/climbers-italians-bolt-ladder...

In reply to neuromancer:

Some excellent offerings thus far. TPS, Indian Face, Right Wall, and the Froggatt slabs are all worthy, but I think 3 or 4 bolts along the roof off The Sloth would tick the box.

It's already protectable, and "fear" is its primary hurdle. Three or four clips out to the lip would remove all fear and ensure every man and his dog could set about damaging what's left of the flakes.

In reply to Alex@home:

Was, there hasn't been any for a fair few years now. I forget exactly when they were removed, but it'd have been sometime in/around 2010 - possibly before, possibly after. Sure there's a variety of threads documenting it, but whether or not it's worth delving into them is another matter!

In reply to raussmf:

Clarion Call, The Cad and something at Kilnsey (Frankie?) are the ones that come to mind.

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

I remember some of those discussions. Couldn't recall the outcome of them all though. Didn't realise it was as long ago as that!

In reply to raussmf:

Broad Stand about ten years ago?

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

We didn't have giant cams in days of old!