UKH

Is there a point you reach in your climbing that you just give up trying to better your ability and just enjoy quiet days at the crag doing easy Diff's until the sunsets. Or do we all need lattice assessments and constant(and consistent) training to find joy/progress in climbing.

There are all sorts of ways to find joy in climbing, from ambling up a V Diff with a good mate on a summer evening  to onsight soloing on a remote crag at your limit. And there are all sorts of ways to make progress, from moving through the grades to slowly solving an intriguing boulder puzzle. I and my pensioner mates seem to cover the spectrum, so I don't think there's a simple answer to your question, thank god. Personally, given the battering my body has had over the years, if I didn't keep training I wouldn't be able to get out of bed, let alone climb.

Whichever works for you

Dunno, some of the hardest lead's I've ever done were after a period of "muh" and mountain VDiffs. For me, I feel I need the latter to reinspire the former.

My aim, in the brief windows of opportunity I get before something else disintegrates, is to develop a kind of zen of climbing. That for me means just climbing in the most economical and elegant way available, savouring the the situation and being totally aware of the pleasure of climbing movement. Grades are irrelevant in this but the character of climbing does matter.

One opinion is that being comfortably able to go and do VS opens the door to a lifetime's worth of amazing experiences, even just around the UK.
Being comfortably able to go and do E1 (maybe E2) opens the door to another lifetime's worth of amazing experiences that you won't have to queue for.
Beyond that, take it as far as you want I guess. If chasing grades makes you happy, crack on, but normally it's routes that inspire, not numbers.
Other opinions are available.

Brought to mind this lovely little film...

youtube.com/watch?v=08bgkcnxV48&

What you will find tricky as you get older is getting partners who want to climb the same grade, if one year you are climbing VS and next its Severe but your partner is HVS, something has to give. This is where a Club comes in.

I've had times when my enjoyment related to performance in climbing, and lots of times when it hasn't. One of the things I love about the sport is that it's all on my own terms. There are loads of adventures to be had at all grades, and grade isn't the only measure of ability.

That simple feeling of doing something well is the main thing that motivates me, it's like learning to play a piece of music you love. Once you've mastered it the body knows what to do, it knows the rhythm, it understands the different elements and the key changes, and you can just revel in it. I have pieces of music that I've played for so long that I would struggle to describe how to play them, but even after months away I can play them without thinking. Obviously in climbing the body will age, you might not be so fit, your head game might not be there, but the groove is there somewhere, you just have to look in the right places.

Incidentally, this is what Katherine Schirrmacher talks about in the latest Factor Two episode  https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/podcasts/series/factor_two_-_s3/ep9_fin...

When you're not enjoying your climbing, change it.  I can't see any other basis to look at it from, unless you're "injured off" or something.

Very nicely put. In return, can I offer one of my poetic effusions, a haiku on the subject of zen climbing:

Sheng

cold celadon sky

whisper of one foot smearing:

small zens of the grit

Thanks- nicely put too, and introduced me to a new word too- celadon 😊

AKA getting partners who can put up with your infirmities and the limitations they impose!

There's a very rewarding middle option. You don't have to be constantly striving to improve to enjoy climbing at your limit on your current max grade (whatever that may be).

What ever makes you Happy (in the end).

Some might be purely performance oriented and gratification only comes from a nice tick list and grades. These people also might like training for the sake of training. 
 

Others are more than Happy to casually enjoy long VS,HVS,Esomething routes. Some drop the grade more and add alps/Mountains to the mix. 
 

So What ever floats your boat.

I personally still chase the grade, simply ’cause I still seem to get better simply by climbing. If/when this doesn’t feel good anymore I’ll shift my focus to something different, be it skiing again or some longer easier routes with my kids. 

For those of us with no ability, improvement in that field was never an option. I climbed my highest grade after about a year and am still stuck there 30 years later.

But I did learn to climb better and I certainly got bolder as I got older, which has proved very satisfying.

I used to say that if I ever was happy to potter around on Severes, that I would give up climbing. Now, approaching the beginning of my decline, I can see that one day those same Severes might prove to be quite an exciting and worthy challenge

I like it.

Yes for sure. There was a time up to about 10-ish years ago for me when a lot of the joy came from progress, doing my first route at a new grade, having big new experiences going to significant crags and areas for the first time. I've never been really into performance and training but I've climbed a lot indoors in the winters, with varying degrees of structure in order to try to improve my trad climbing.

I'm pretty sure that is 100% over. I can still get something out of climbing, but it isn't anything like the same. It's lovely for people to say they get just amount of fun bimbling up a severe as they did from onsighting a classic route at their best ever grade, but I'm not entirely sure I believe them - that's certainly not my experience. If I struggle like hell up an E1, the fact that I used to climb E3s and E4s makes it a lot less fun than when struggling up an E1 was the best I'd ever managed. That said, occasionally I do a route that might be HVS-E2 that's really great and it's a proper buzz, but there has to be something really special about the route - say cutting through spectacular terrain on great rock. This is a small minority of the time now, whereas it was a real buzz maybe 80% of the time when everything was new and I was progressing. 

I don't think any training regime or whatever is going to re-inspire me to feel the way about climbing I did 10 years ago. But I can still enjoy myself if I go to the right place with the right people; while I'm perpetually on the brink of giving up full stop, it still works out better to carry on, since I haven't got anything better to do.

Nope.

Those the only two options?  If so, then yes.

We all climb for different reasons.  If you're really just aged 30 then I'm a bit surprised you've given up trying already. Maybe you're ill, or have a disability though (in which case fair enough).

If I thought I had no chance of improving then I'd probably give up.  Enjoy the scenery, but there're better ways of seeing it.  Miserable misanthropic git, so no interest in continuing for "the craic" - which I hate (one of my favourite climbing buddies is a clip stick, grigri and shunt - at least you don't have to put up with the banter; might post a piccy of her, as you ask).  Enjoy the challenge, and the feeling of moving over the rock easily on (for me) difficult terrain, or of struggling on harder terrain.  Still have ambitions of hitting the big 8a before I reach the big 6-oh, but with just 25 months to go that's starting to look a bit slim (have given up meat and alcohol in the quest).

Sorry, starting to witter now.  What was the question?

It's a very personal thing.  For me if I'm not performing near my limit I feel dissatisfied.  The problem is I have set myself a high limit and climbing easy climbs simply does not appeal to me.  I've had a 3 year lay of and at almost 73 I'm unlikely to reach my previous high points but as they say never say never.  If I get out there I may be fine.  I would like to think so. The irony is that I avoided lots of easy classics to save them for my dotage.  I suppose I should now accept that my dotage has arrived

Al

when it stop being fun.

Anything else isn't climbing - it list ticking. UP there with tread mill running

I sometimes claim to my partner that I’ll be satisfied once I’m consistently climbing 7a sport and E1 trad — by sheer coincidence, about one grade above my current levels, respectively. For some reason she’s unconvinced. 

very well put Jon . I have given this some thought recently and agree almost entirely ( there is a but coming ) . Like many on here  I ve dabbled in most outdoor sports and at various times been reasonably good at some of them. But nothing For me has given me the buzz , pleasure ,satisfaction ,excitement .. and on and on ...of trad. climbing . The closest thing  would  probably be off piste ski ing deep  powder really really well , but I ve only really hit that sweet spot a few times ski ing, so can’t really compare .  The thing is I, and here is the “but “ , with modern training and modern medicine the point when most people  will be honestly be able to say “ I will never be able to climb my hardest grades again “ get pushed further and further back . I know that point does ( and will ) come but have you really reached it ? I know I haven’t . The caveat is of course “ I don’t really want to “ but that’s very  different from “can’t “ I think.

Interesting question.  For me, I am working quite hard to better my ability and I am 63.  I'm doing a reasonable amount of training, though I am not sure that it relates much to the 'joy' in climbing.  I have had plenty of periods where I have stopped climbing (more or less) for a significant spell - sometimes years - because work or children made it hard to do in the way that I wanted to pursue involvement.  Anyway, now pressures are less and I am usually able to maintain regular cragging, so I am working to get back to something like my previous best.  Training is a way of getting some basic strength back, partly to compensate for the additional weight I seem to have!

For me, the enjoyment comes from new venues because that gives me things to do that help build progress.  I find it difficult to go back to very familiar venues and work through easier stuff as stepping stones to the few things that I have left to do, whereas give me somewhere unfamiliar and I can enjoy the pathway more.  This feels a bit like 'progress' always used to feel - a buzz of discovery and something of a test - whereas revisiting Stanage again, while pleasant, is never motivating in the same way.  Once or twice, I have reflected that relocating would be a push forwards, but the last time I did that it coincided with a fallow period as I struggled to find partners!

I've just relocated and that's resulted in a huge new burst of enthusiasm; I haven't actually had the opportunity to put that to the test though, so it may evaporate when I'm actually confronted with the reality.  

Let's hope not!  I've even subscribed to 'More neglected Lake district Gems' to remind me that the unfamiliar is the more exciting.  I'm lucky that I still have loads of places that I've never been, but yes I agree, planning these campaigns is somehow easier than enacting them!  

It depends why we climb. I used to always want to get better (climbing indoors on routes and bouldering outdoors, with leading the next thing), and now I've dodgy elbows I'm happy with cycling out in the summer for easy bouldering by myself.

If it's enjoyable it's all worth doing.

There is often a little voice in my head that says ...” you’re getting on a bit, your not as strong or bouncy as you used to be, just take it easy and climb for pleasure not grades” Then there is a louder voice that says ... “ you walked up that E1, why don’t you try that E2, you’ll feel strong and youthful when you succeed”

Oh how I wish I could drown out that louder voice sometimes!

Totally agree. There's no physical reason why I couldn't decide to do lots of training and climb a harder route than I'd ever done before (although it'd be quite a lot harder compared to 10 years ago). I just can't see any reason to, because it would be so much work for a reward that I can't see materialising. Lots of people enjoy the process of training in itself, whereas I'm thoroughly indifferent to it. It's something to do and it has benefits, but I wouldn't say I enjoy it. I don't find the thought of grinding my way up some hard route by the skin of my teeth, just about falling off every move, at all appealing. I'd rather get on something I had to concentrate and commit on, but was alright, than endure the agonising 2h ordeal of up-and-downing, resting, falling, trying again, giving up, blah blah that doing a route at my limit entails.

And unless that's what I want to do when I go climbing, I'm not going get back to previous standards or progress.  I've basically had it with that kind of climbing, it's a pain in the tits, and the belayer invariably gets freezing cold and extremely bored (or occasionally sunburnt).

Is there a point you reach in your climbing that you just give up trying to better your ability and just enjoy quiet days at the crag doing easy Diff's until the sunsets. Or do we all need lattice assessments and constant(and consistent) training to find joy/progress in climbing.

For me, no ( or at least not yet ).

   As a UKC youngster ( I've only been climbing for 45 years ) my personal experience is that I have gone through various phases usually linked to social / work / home life. Sometimes I'll do some training and progress and grades become more important and sometimes it is just about going out and having fun on something I find easy. I love both aspects.

    Then, of course, how do you personally define 'trying to better your ability'. For me this does not always relate to grade. I might better my ability through improving fitness / endurance to do more climbing in a day. I might improve my climbing knowledge and efficiency by trying new techniques and adding them to my repertoire. I might better my ability through climbing in new areas / new rock types or new styles of climbing ( eg; roadside crag, mountain crag, winter, water ice, alpine summer, alpine winter, greater ranges or even ( shudder ) bouldering. 

   Do what you enjoy, be proud of it.

Brilliant question and I'll echo what other folk have said here, it depends on why you climb.

I started really climbing when I lived in Brighton and for years pushing my grade was the main thing. Then I moved to Scotland and climbing big classic mountain routes became the main thing (then winter climbing took over )

Sometimes life gets in the way of my climbing... but I will always need climbing to feel alive.

Just my 2p.

Euge

Mine’s arrived now Al.

I can’t understand why people stop climbing and give up.

For 51 years I’ve never thought of it, not even for any reason .

I now onsite 3 full grades below my highest level and 25 years of age difference .

What I on-sight now is just as hard and trying and getting up only 1/2 a grade more as 25 years ago is just the same feeling so nothing has changed apart from the numbers the routes are just as satisfying, yes I would like to climb harder but won’t put the effort in.

The great thing about climbing is the good time and enjoying the environment and mates and most of all still being out there doing it in great places.

Roll on the end of this 😢 😞 awful COVID so we can travel again.

Get back into it lad.

keith s

Just enjoy it, pick routes you want to do and if it's "Only" a Severe or whatever then so what.

It feels great to train for something and get that feeling of constant improvement but all said and done, it's just a hobby and nothing more. I think it's healthy to be able to take it or leave it.

Looking back, most of the best, memorable for a lifetime climbs have been big but technically easy mountain routes with good friends.

Harder (for me) sport routes and boulder problems just fade into the ether.

!!! Your still young, according to your profile.

I had only been climbing about 25 or 26 years at your age, just warming up. Peaked at trad in my 50's, eyes not so good.

Picked up a training plan this winter. It's been an amazing adventure in itself. 

Your profile says you have only been climbing for 1 to 3 years.

If you are not being carried along in a massive wave of enthusiasm, adventure and excitement I would sack it off and go and do something different. 

Another thought: If you are feeling somewhat jaded with climbing perhaps you need to find some different people to climb with, ones with lots of infectious energy and enthusiasm. Maybe try out a brand new area...

I know you are right.  It's the 3 years of inactivity that has done for me. I'll probably be fine once I get outside on rock again.

Al

I’m certainly on a slow decline bouldering after 40 years of climbing. I’ll stop when I just can’t do the jumping and falling off onto pads anymore. It’s a pretty high impact activity. Although I’ll probably keep up visits to Font and potter around the circuits. I’ve still got a full trad rack in storage so was thinking of taking that up again when I can’t do the bouldering stuff I want to do.

Serious injury for some. Marriage and a beer belly for most.

I gave up a while ago, due to mental health issues. I started again. My mental health has improved massively as a result.

Andy F

Great stuff and very inspiring. Did you do your first E5 in your fifties?

Yes, but just the one, I got nailed by some nerve problem very soon afterwards. More proud of 7c+ at 59, so much harder. 

Yeah that is fantastic, to hit your best grade at that age. Can I ask how you did it? Was it a local route, endurance or something shorter, etc? 

I am nothing special, there are plenty of others the same.

Turning up and wanting it, I guess.

Re: trad I plateaued at e3 for zillions of years until I worked out that technique never stopped me. So if I could hang on longer I would get up it. So worked to improve anaerobic threshold. That worked. Suddenly loads of e4s seemed easy. Plus rock warriors way attitude. 

7c+ just an absolutely fantastic climb that super motivated me to try hard, and my sort of thing, super techy.

DM me if want more. Bit embarrassing on here.

When 3 star routes seem boring