I was climbing the slightly run out section on P1 of Central Rib at Avon Gorge today when a drinks can thrown off the top narrowly missed me.
When I topped out, I saw some teenagers with their family close by chucking stuff off the top close to other climbers on the slabs. I confronted them and tried to explain that what they were doing was dangerous and could seriously injure someone. Their dad gave a half arsed apology and their grandma even had the cheek to say I shouldn't be doing something (climbing) so dangerous!
Is there a way of reporting these incidents to someone so it can be flagged as an issue? Police, local council, BMC access reps?
I'm not sure what can actually be done apart from perhaps putting signs up to not throw items off the top?
I also saw someone chuck a rock off of the top of Leaning Buttress Crack at Stanage this afternoon while it was very busy below. I shouted up at them and another climber topping out had words.
The group who threw the rock were also playing music loudly with a Bluetooth speaker. It was just an all round lack of outdoor education / basic respect of others.
Signs wont work sadly. Those chucking stuff off wont read a sign, nor care if there was one there. It's common sense to not throw something over an edge where you can't see what's below. I work at a busy beach location and for some reason over the last two years we've been seeing more rocks chucked than ever before. Any iota of brain power from these people has long since disappeared - because you can ACTUALLY SEE that there are beachgoers below.
Last year I had to deal with a first aid for someone struck on the shoulder. Fairly uninjured but in utter shock as she was holding her baby in the other arm. And yes, there are signs. Unfortunately we have to have signs for everythin from BBQ risk, overnight camping, steep edges, strong tides, blah blah blah, that everyone becomes sign blind. The only signs people look for are for the toilets, and where to pay for parking.
<<Unfortunately we have to have signs for everythin>>
Just a thought, but if you didn't have signs "banning overnight camping" and "where to pay" that would be two less signs and perhaps people would be more inclined to follow the rest?
I was introducing my niece to climbing at Ilkley Cow and Calf many years ago. We were walking along the bottom of the crag when a stone landed next to us. It was big enough to kill. I looked up and caught a brief glimpse of a figure as another stone whizzed past our ears. I soloed angrily up and topped out as this kid was creeping forward with another rock in his hand. The grin and the blood drained out of his face and he dropped the stone. I grabbed him and shook him on the edge as I explained that he could have killed us. He started weeping so I marched him down to his parents who were enjoying their lunch down at the café. They absolutely couldn't have cared less.
Of course I wouldn't do it now... the hell I wouldn't!
(Not the soloing obviously.)
Have I told this story before?
Throw drinks cans at the drinks can throwers?
> The group who threw the rock were also playing music loudly with a Bluetooth speaker.
Yes, no climbers would ever do such a thing...
Hmmm... Any connection, I wonder...?
https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/rock_talk/accident_avon_gorge_monday_29_m...
Boulderers don't count
I understand what you're saying, and as boring as it might sound, I've read through pages of research as to what signage and interpretation is the most effective. We try our best to engage with visitors in a positive manner through our signage so it's not just "NO BBQs" but believe me, people will just lie through their teeth to get away with something. Having a photo of the sign is a sure fire way to back up what you're saying when they feign innocence of not seeing the copious amount of unmissable signs.
Also, you just can't please everyone. After one of the stone throwing incidents last year we had a 1 star TripAdvisor review stating there aren't enough signs up there about people below. We could put Piccadilly circus style billboards up and it'd still happen.
Same happened to us on the morning slabs couple of weeks back, can of tango if I remember correctly.
Could it be feasible to remove the lose rocks from the tops of the crags to prevent idiots throwing them?
> Could it be feasible to remove the lose rocks from the tops of the crags to prevent idiots throwing them?
Eerrrrrrr no
Removing the idiots would be easier IMO
whoosh
Throwing things off the top at Avon has a long pedigree. Back in the early 70's I was leading the final groove of Unknown Wall when someone emptied a dustbin over the top. I was engulfed by glass bottles and vegetable waste amongst other thiings. It was also sport for local kids to unscrew the light bulbs on the Suspension Bridge to throw at climbers (the bridge wasn't fenced then)
Its all part of the Avon experience, and a drink can is probably the least of your worries.
China plates with writing on was a recent trend, but we even found the remains of a fibre glass boat on the terraces last year. Not to mention BBQs, Urns of ashes and a large rubber "adult" toy.
I suppose its the cost of having an urban crag with no walk in, but it all adds to the character of the place.
Back in the early noughties I was in a hall of residence in Clifton. One of the hall flats across the way had got an old flea ridden three seater sofa out of a skip and had it in their kitchen. They were given an ultimatum to get rid of it by day x or get kicked out of halls.
Day X came around and they'd done nothing. In their usual altered state four of them carried the sofa through Clifton, and onto the middle of the suspension bridge. They somehow managed to chuck it over into the river, becoming paralysed by hysterics when it splashed down.
They were still in stitches on the bridge 10 minutes later when Avon and Somersets finest arrived and arrested them for littering.
I guess what i'm saying is that this sort of thing will always be an issue at a city crag like Avon (lunchtime ledge had a trashed sofa on it for years).
> lunchtime ledge had a trashed sofa on it for years.
There was a time when there was a ceramic toilet hanging from one of the pegs in the middle of the top pitch of Malbogies. Wasn't plumbed in so not very usable 😂, and I think getting into position to be able to use it may have been several technical grades harder than the route.
Don't think we can blame that one on locals lobbing from the top, pretty sure it was climbers.
...and the leather sofa on Lunchtime ledge was a nice touch.
Presumably came from above rather than being carried up...
> Eerrrrrrr no
> Removing the idiots would be easier IMO
I have long advocated that snipers should be positioned round fast food venus to deal with Mr and Mrs chuck it out of the window. It would sort out littering and improve the gean pool too.
If I can get the scheme off the ground I will happily include crag throwers but they would need extra training to understand anyone shouting "below" and throwing a rope is exempt.
Are also going to start a scheme to shoot people who misspell gene?
> Are also going to start a scheme to shoot people who misspell gene?
For one glorious moment I thought you had misssspelled "misspell"
Sorry Mike. Bad morning here
> I have long advocated that snipers should be positioned round fast food venus to deal with Mr and Mrs chuck it out of the window. It would sort out littering and improve the gean pool too.
On a less satisfyingly lethal but more practical note, the obvious answer to Mr & Mrs Chuck It Out The Window would be to make it an offence for the registered keeper/driver of the vehicle for litter to be thrown out. That way there's no need to identify the person doing the littering, so you could send a snippet of dash cam footage to the old bill and that would be evidence enough to issue an FPN based on the reg. number of the car alone.
FTFY: ...anyone throwing a rope and then shouting "below" is exempt.
Thanks to the wonders of spellcheck I avoided only using one s...
Also you could have picked me up for missing out the word you. C-, must try harder 😉
> Also you could have picked me up for missing out the word you. C-, must try harder 😉
Dammit
Still, C-
I thought fast food venus was funnier. Do they sell mars bars there?
Apologies to Dax. It's not big and it's not clever, but I couldn't resist.
I've got a great plan for this, just need to get it implemented.
Every item of packaging from a fast food joint is marked with a unique barcode. Any piece of litter found, the shop that sold it gets fined. That gives the shops a massive incentive to get their customers to behave. Step 2. The shop can assign each unique barcode to the customer that paid for it. The fine gets passed on to them.
Had this at Torbryan. You've got to shout very loud and be very angry. They won't do it again. They had no idea it was a problem. Softly, softly doesn't install a core memory.
And also today at Cairn Gorm - Stob Coire an t-Sneachda on the shape of boulders down the slope.
I apologise to anyone who heard my colourful language.
> I thought fast food venus was funnier. Do they sell mars bars there?
> Apologies to Dax. It's not big and it's not clever, but I couldn't resist.
The plight of the dyslexic, no apologies needed because you turned it in to a joke that made me laugh tether than try be condescending.
There is currently a big public waste bin making its way up the Easy Way Down at Wintours that had been chucked off the top.
☹️
This has always been an issue at Wintours, that's how bottle buttress got its name.
It's not even in a city either, so the scum must be traveling out there specially.
Yeah I know but I just found the stupid irony of someone lobbing a bin off the top quite amusing. It had been in the jungle to the left of Valley Forge for quite a while so its good someones retrieved it.
Clearly I should have gone for "Are you also going to start a scheme to shoot people who misspell Jean?" to make it clear that I too was joking rather than being condescending.
> ☹️
> This has always been an issue at Wintours, that's how bottle buttress got its name.
> It's not even in a city either, so the scum must be traveling out there specially.
The car parking just above the easy way down got stopped because of some ratbags regularly parking up there and turning up their car stereos to 11, and apparently indulging in certain substances to boot. Then of course they'd chuck any rubbish over the edge. Damn nuisance.
Mind you, it does mean that people can't reverse up to the edge of the cliff and empty anything particularly heavy or awkward straight out of their boot and over the edge like they used to.
It did come across as condescending, maybe I'm a bit sensitive towards it due to it happening a lot.
No harm no foul though.
Sorry, was responding to your jokey post, thought it would be taken in jest.
Like I say, nothing to be sorry about, I was being over sensitive, in fact I apologise for saying you were being condescending.
Well this is all very British...
> I have long advocated that snipers should be positioned round fast food venus to deal with Mr and Mrs chuck it out of the window. It would sort out littering and improve the gean pool too.
You are just cherrypicking
Have you been spying on me ? 🙂 One of my prized policies for when I come into power is the use of snipers to eliminate the dog shit in plastic bags and similar issues. 100 snipers randomly littered round the country with a license to kneecap people hanging shit in trees. You get two warnings (2 knees) and a final "you're out" if you keep doing it. I can think of very few social ills that wouldn't be reduced with some healthy fear that someone might be watching...
I like the 2 warnings and your out idea, I'm going to nick that and include it in my manifesto.
There would be the odd issue with people who have an unrelated limp being confused for someone on their last warning but if that's the price we have to pay then so be it.
> a large rubber "adult" toy.
Did it have a suction cup base? Because I just got mental images of it landing on someone's helmet and sticking on it.
Yup - there's a fenced park near our house with signs on the gates saying "No Dogs". The park has play equipment aimed at young kids up to about 8 - there's other parks nearby with stuff for older children.
We regularly see people in there with their dogs.
Some idiots also seem to occasionally go in there and smash glass bottles, among other stupid things!
Yeah I regularly see this type of signage. research shows something like "Thank you for keeping this area dog-free" works far better. People will disagree and it wont work 100% of the time, but it is shown to be more effective when encouraging people to be part of the team, or solution.
Come the revolution we could share power. Until one of us gets done with an ice pick at any rate 😄
Can we apply the same tactics to people throwing cigarette butts out of cars. Or perhaps make it legal to rear-end someone littering from cars if you have video evidence. You then may continue to rear-end them until they agree to pick up any of the car damage from the road.
Just so long as the rear-ending is done with a skip lorry. Don't see any reason to damage a perfectly good car on these muppets.
Absolutely. It's a versatile policy that can easily be applied to a wide variety of situations; littering from cars included. Easily comprehensible by even the greatest moron
> Come the revolution we could share power. Until one of us gets done with an ice pick at any rate 😄
It's a deal, we need a third though to settle tie breaks without resorting to the ice picks. I suggest Birdie Numnum, he seems quite sane and sensible.
> Can we apply the same tactics to people throwing cigarette butts out of cars.
Easy fix for this, all motor vehicles to be equipped with a surface to surface rocket launcher and 360 video cameras.
You see someone throwing litter from their car or driving like a dick and boom it's over for them.
The footage is then sent to myself NaCI and Numnum and if we decide it's valid it's all good and believe me the validity bar will be set very low with an automatic pass for blowing up a BMW, Audi, anything with an exhaust larger than a bean can and anyone with fully tinted windows.
If we decide it wasn't a valid strike the penalty will be being tied to an ant hill and left to starve to death. Harsh but will prevent unlawful release and if anyone ignores the rules and shoots anyway it's a fitting punishment for them.