UKH

Hi, I took my niece and nephew to The Roaches yesterday for their first taste of outdoor climbing. I only had On Peak Rock and I couldn't follow the topo very well as the pictures didn't make any sense to me. I attempted to take them up Black and Tans after they both cruised Pedestal route. The route I took felt a bit harder than severe and neither of them could climb it. I can't work out if I was on the right route or not and it's driving me nuts. 

I started in the chimney under the holly bush and climbed up the left side wall mantleshelfing on to a small ledge, then traversed left on a good shelf. I then climbed a jamming crack which met up with a large diagonal crack running perpendicular which took a large friend. At the top of this the last few metres was bulgy slopey grit and I couldn't see any gear, not being sure of which route I was on and suffering immense rope drag I bailed to the right for a few metres and belayed in a large fissure cavey thing at the top of the crag.

Does this sound like Black and Tans? 

Sounds like it.... the finish is scary looking from below onsight and requires delicate moves on bulging rounded holds and is reachy.

The top looked very scary! Must have just been the rope drag, I put tons of gear in trying to protect them on the traverses and didn't take many slings with me.

Those big Roaches routes often need very careful ropework and some sling extension and that isn't always so obvious onsight (especially avoiding the infamous rope lock on Pedestal Route). I'd argue this should be a bigger part of the adjectival grade (the best example at the Roaches being Valkyrie: probably HVS onsight for most, because of complex ropework and hidden holds... maybe top end HVS with a single rope).

Yeah my rope work was all over the place! I was bringing them up on separate ropes so I was putting two pieces in all the crucial spots and clipping both ropes, bit rusty these days, beginners mistake. I just thought it was weird that the both cruised a HVD then got totally shut down on this route. I had to lower them both off, ab for the gear the march back to the top for the gear wasting a third of the time I had with them. Felt like such a chump.

Will definitely be buying a comprehensive guidebook next time I go.  

It's not uncommon to do B&T in two or even three pitches, to avoid rope drag.

It's also more technical than Pedestal Route, with jamming and (as you discovered) bulging slopey grit to contend with, so perhaps that's why your niece and nephew with no previous outdoor experience found it a lot more difficult.

Yeah it was a bad call. We just got there a bit too late, was a big group on the lower easy slabs where I was planning to do the first two routes, we headed to the top and Pedestal route was free so we did that. By the time we finished the crag was heaving and all the routes I knew had climbers on them, I had a very selective guidebook only covering the main buttresses. The kids wanted to do a longer route so I panicked a bit and set of on Black and Tan. About half way up I realised I'd messed up, should have bailed then. They don't know how to belay so pitches wasn't an option.   

I don't think Black and Tans is a pushover at the grade. Quite intimidating in places, a wandering line requiring careful ropework and quite bold in the upper half. That said I generally find most routes at the Roaches tough at the grade, but that could just be me.

I've always split Black and Tans into two pitches by the way.

Back in the day I used to climb at the roaches a lot, I think I've onsighted all of the upper and lower tier two and three star HVS's apart from The Mincer which chewed me to bits and spat out a bloody mess.

I always found it a very strenuous place with the majority of them being pumpy and hard for the grade. I've barely climbed the last few years, will just have to chalk this one off as a moment of madness. If I'd had the full guide I could have taken them to a quieter area, I'll make sure I get a copy of Staffordshire Gritstone for the next trip.

We had Hen Cloud to ourselves yesterday afternoon, looked busy over at the Roaches! 

You made the right call mate! Queues everywhere, I was really hoping the kids would get to see someone ascend The Sloth, alas it wasn't to be.

Nice one. I've never managed to get beyond HS at the Roaches, despite having led many VS routes on Eastern Grit and elsewhere. Always find the Roaches tough. Still love it though. 

I absolutely loved the place, was driving from Liverpool over to the Peak for about a year before I even new it existed. Once I discovered it I was hooked, Roaches, Hen Cloud and Ramshaw, what a venue! There's something about desperate, bloody, pumpy battles that appeals to me and flailing away like a man possessed made the routes feel so rewarding. I attempted The Sloth at the height of my powers and dispatched it with ease. This was on a climbing meet, on a very busy Saturday with a large crowd watching. Being both boastful and a show off this was one of the greatest days of my life, with an awesome after party.

Central Route is one of my favourite climbs there, it's a bit of a head game but as I recall it is quite positive with no particularly hard sections. 

Black Velvet (S 4a) is a bit straighter and can be done in one pitch, is a bit softer than B&T, and a bit nicer in my opinion! 

All great venues even if you don't climb. Such superb rock architecture in stunning surroundings. 

Never been keen on trying Central Route. Bold routes have never really been my thing and less so as I have got older. Keen to do the Sloth at some point, but need to be getting more outdoor trad mileage in for an attempt on that.

I've been looking at the photos on here and B&T seems to finish further left I think, I was trying to go direct from the crack. I got to the sketchy bit and got a bit stuck before noticing I could bail right. I could see stuff to the left but my rope drag was so bad I didn't want to put any more gear in. 

Yeah it's one of those iconic grit routes, I've never climbed anything like it.

Never quite understood how this has been upgraded to be the same grade as B&T which is far more serious; HVD has always seemed right to me.

Possibly because of the length? It's a long old pitch and I seem to remember there being a bit of 4a (getting onto the initial pedestal by the holly? Getting through the roofy/overlap bit?). Severe felt about right I think but I'm more used to Eastern Edges grading. It's a friendly severe but from memory it felt correctly graded at that.