UKH

Seems to be a consensus that schools returning will see an increase in Covid cases. But I’m not so sure:

1. If schools are/were that bad, and let’s face it lots of class bubbles were closed in the autumn term, then a lot a children may have had Covid, hence some immunity

2. This lockdown schools have been open anyway, with increasing class sizes as parents returned to work. But I’ve not heard of class bubbles shutting. 

3. LF tests, whilst ‘iffy’ may help. 

4.  We have a natural mini circuit breaker - Good Friday is 2nd April so if schools off for two weeks return 19th April.  Half the adult population will have immunity at this point.

5. Ironically, perhaps it should be vaccinated grandparents doing the school run!

 

Let’s hope so.  I’m not as optimistic but I hope to be wrong.  I will continue with my policy of only going to certain schools and opening all the windows and doors, and we will see.  If cases go high then I will reconsider, but at least I should have had both jabs by September. 

It will be interesting to see whether all those parents who haven't seen each other for ages end up chatting at the school gates and increasing the likelihood of passing on the virus.

My main worry is about the older children, the ones that the virus treats the same as adults. These could end up passing it around an entire class (and onwards) if ventilation isn't looked at.

Very low risk.  In November, large parts of UK was at peak Covid, schools open and no evidence that this was an issue.

They could. And who knows how many of them had it last autumn so may have some immunity.  No doubt ventilation helps and should be done, but I’m not convinced that having all windows and doors open has a massive impact. 12 months ago (!) lots of discussion on here about using empty office space, marquees on car parks, using dining halls and sports halls - all to minimise class sizes - but that ship sailed. And at least home schooling systems are tried and tested for this age group (which, as a rule, don’t need parents to home educate if a class bubble had to shut).

Ventilation makes a massive difference.  Probably the most important thing we can do.  

Outer clusters of infection are almost unknown. Indoor clusters of infection are common.

Ventilation to make the indoors more like the outdoors where the virus gets blown away or diluted quickly could make a huge difference.

I think more transmissible variants might be  problem particularly in secondary schools. Not sure about no risk in November, but it was less than I expected, even local school outbreaks when 100+ kids tested positive, no staff did. The spread in secondary schools in Swale, Medway etc. in December is some cause for concern.  

I think I'm convinced ventilation is a major consideration. Perhaps that is the crux of my concern for staff, previously even with 36 sixteen year olds in classroom, if you stood by an open door with the windows open, there was minimal chance of catching it. I hope that is still the case.

Re ventilation: is opening all windows and doors enough to make a massive difference I genuinely don’t know. Perhaps this is why class bubble closure hasn’t been massive this winter? (lots of cold teachers and pupils though, but they’ll be fine).  

A number of staff were positive in November, I was covering for them.  

By mid December several classes were having 5 supply teachers each day.  

The agency said it's the busiest they had ever been.  

Obviously some staff were off due to children being off, but by December it was mainly due to staff testing positive. 

I measured the Carbon Dioxide in rooms where I worked and all doors and windows being closed led to a 6 times higher than background value.  

I forget the exact figures, I posted them at the time but maybe it was in the pub. 

The normal outside CO2 is around 400 ppm.  In a normal size classroom of 30 kids with doors and windows shut it goes up to about 3000 ppm.  This isn't healthy at any time, far too stuffy.  By opening the doors and windows even with a class of 30 I can keep it down to 500 or 600. 

The more fresh air, the more the virus is diluted.  

There is research on this.  

Obviously children should be wearing coats and extra layers if it's cold to keep them warm.  

Thanks for this. I’m surprised but glad it had such an impact. Thinking of reopening my building next week. It’s a small community centre (like a village hall) and we are lucky because opening fire exit and front door creates a gale force through draft!

It wan't quite as bad here, but that's partly where my concern for the new variants comes from. Before the last week of term we only had one school fully shut, due a major outbreak including 17 staff. Had term gone on for a week longer three more would have been, and all due to the new variant. I'm probably putting too much emphasis on anecdotal accounts but after one pastoral meeting in a classroom (why?) 7 of the 12 attendees tested positive, even though they allegedly all sat 2m apart.

I don't have a single authoritative source in this, but I've heard several scientists recently saying that if we'd known a year ago what we know now, we'd have put a lot more emphasis on ventilation and avoiding enclosed spaces with other people and a lot less on washing hands and disinfecting surfaces. But it's difficult to change course on that sort of thing without the general public concluding that you don't know what you're talking about.

My first information came from Susan Roaf, an engineering professor.  

I can't find the original article I read, but there is a summary here, and also from a doctor.  

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/if-you-want-to-fight-infectio...

I also found this useful.  

https://smartbuildingsmagazine.com/features/carbon-dioxide-monitoring-to-lo...

My aim is if possible to ensure that all windows are fully open before school, and at breaks and lunchtime.  I can then start with fairly clean air.  In the interests of not turning the children into human icicles a CO2 monitor enables me to keep an eye on the levels with some windows closed or partially closed.  If the levels remain low with only a few windows open, then that's fine, if not then I have a reason which can be clearly shown to the pupils with the monitor to open more windows until levels drop.  

It goes without saying that the pupils can wear coats and I also keep an eye on the room temperature.  

I'd like to see a CO2 monitor in every classroom, apart from anything even when this is over, there is good evidence that high CO2 levels impact on concentration and learning.  

Right now it could be an easy way to impact the spread of Covid and prevent more school closures.  

Anecdotally I know that schools where ventilation was taken more seriously and windows open have had fewer staff and students off with the virus.  Unfortunately there isn't any data on this.  

Obviously I'm not going to stop handwashing and desk cleaning.  But for me ventilation is more important.  I think it's great that we have a more hygienic environment and hopefully it will help with fewer stomach bugs and other illnesses even if it doesn't do much for Covid. 

I very much have my reservations.

My daughter's infant school had an entire year isolating at home before Chistmas and the secondary over the road had several classes doing the same.

I don't think parents chatting is too much of an issue, as will mostly be in masks and outside.

More worried about them bringing it home, as we've not been vaccinated yet and neither have most of the teachers!

An interesting point was made in our briefing today ahead of return to face to face teaching next week (as opposed to the remote teaching I've been doing since January - just in case anyone thinks teachers have been furloughed!). This is that whilst we can't insists on pupils wearing masks, or sanction them if they refuse, if we remove our masks in the classroom when we are within two metres of any child and that child subsequently gets covid, then we could be sued for damages! So that's a nice cheery thought to jolly us along as we head back in on Monday... :-I

Being sued aside for a moment, surely you haven’t been going near children with no mask anyway?  

I certainly have no intention of being less than 2m away from any child who won’t wear a mask.  I will be wearing mine as much as is practical.  I need to make some more so I can change them during the day. 

Many years ago I lost my voice and managed to teach for 3 days with just a mini whiteboard for individual communication and all instructions on the board (something I try to do anyway because it saves repeating myself endlessly).  I’m sure a mask will be ok.  

I wore mine from September a lot more than many other colleagues were doing, although it was interesting to watch them spread across the school, as us "influencers" had our affect. But in lots of classrooms it's literally not possible to be more than 2 metres from the front row of desks and in those more cramped rooms even when the desk rows were pushed back away from the front of the class, I observed "desk creep" where as the kids got up to go out at break and lunch, all the desk would move slightly forward, so by period 5 the front row would definitely be closer to you than in period 1. It's like something from a very slow moving horror movie.

Up to Christmas I would sometimes take my mask off if I was at the front and small a level groups all go and sit on the back row! So then there was lots of space and they would need as few impediments to hearing me as possible as they had (perhaps logically in these times) sat as far from me as possible!

I found boxes of textbooks stopped the desks from creeping forwards. Well the front row anyway. I refused to teach in any room where the front row wasn't 2m from where I’d stand at the whiteboard.  At one point I did stop and make a class move all the desks back.  Not ideal, but as a supply teacher going into several schools and with elderly parents in my bubble I was particularly careful not to get it.  

I was teaching mask off from 2m away, but having seen what was happening in December, and with the new variants being more contagious I think I will be avoiding that unless it is a very small class and they are further away like your A level group.  

This has happened to one of my kid's classes.  No point to make other than that.

Only other thing is that with even half the kids in social distancing is easier.  

My grandchildren are in years 11 & 13 and their parents s are pushing 50. The kids are very anxious about returning to school and taking the infection home to their, so far, unvaccinated parents.