UKH

Looking for feedback, have we been unreasonable.

We rented  out our house about 2.5 years ago to a couple, (no agent involved) and we moved up north  and we  rent the house here, we really like the house and location, our landlord now needs to sell it, ( nursing home fees) and we want to buy it, as we don t ever see ourselves moving back down south. My partner is a student nurse, about  to start her third year and uses her rent income to live off, we reduced the Tenents rent by a third in April as both Tenents have been furloughed, but we managed to pay our bills, just.

we now would like  to sell our house, so we can buy the one we rent, or we will have to move out ourselves, in the meantime both Tenents  have now been made redundant.

we decided to offer them cash to help pay for a deposit and also give them 3 months notice, along with reducing the rent to half.

After telling them we want to sell, it was the final straw for them and one tenant  has ended up in hospital (breakdown) and the couple have split, my partner is feeling very guilty now

its a difficult time for everyone, we have lost thousands in rent while working crazy shifts to keep our bills paid, unfortunately our Tenents  sat in the garden sunning themselves and didn’t pursue any other work, so, are we to blame, it’s really not a nice feeling 

In reply to trollman:

It sounds to me like you have been more than reasonable.  

You are not to blame for the redundancy situation or for your tenants mental health.   

In reply to trollman:

The world's troubles are not your responsibility (well maybe 1 bit out of 7 billion is). Seems to me that you've been pretty reasonable and open about things. What's happened to your tenants is unfortunate but from what you've described, not your fault.

Can you sell with resident tenants - I've no idea about this - or does that introduce complexities that make it impractical?

Although you've given them 3 months notice - can you be flexible at all - that might help them.

In reply to trollman:

As harsh as it sounds, you need to be a bit more emotionally detached from the rental and treat it more as a business. Currently, you're working to pay for another family that you have no responsibility towards while struggling to live yourself!

In reply to Michael Hood:My partner went to visit them in person last week, found out they had split up that weekend and both left the house with some of their belongings, my partner was told they want to give us 3 weeks notice, then the next day we find out sadly our tenant as been admitted to hospital, we really wanted to help them as much as we could, just will all the news of Landlord vs tenants, not good

we really have no cash between us, my low wage and a student, were just hoping they can get some real help 

In reply to Street:

This is roughly what I’m trying to say to my partner, I was also furloughed myself, and my partner believe it or not, could not pick up many shifts on the nhs bank as most of the wards were closed so we scrapped by ourselves, not sure a sitting tenant without an income will be a good investment for a potential buyer, but we did consider it at one point.

In reply to trollman:

 It's hard out there atm. If you don't look after yourselves properly you haven't got a hope of being able to look after anyone else. 

In reply to

I think you've been more than fair with the tenants, both in terms of the notice period, reducing rent and offering cash towards a deposit. In fact I think you've got too personally involved with them and their lives and taken too much responsibility for them.

The only thing I would take issue with is :

Do you know that's correct, or is it better for you to think that? There wasn't a great deal of recruitment going on, and would it be legal to take on other work whilst furloughed, or sensible to resign from what was a full time role to take on what could have been part-time or casual work?

In reply to Ridge:

They were friends of friends that just seemed to work for both sides, very good tenants and we totally understand this is out of their control, both worked in the fitness industry, same company.

maybe your right for pulling me up on my “sitting in the garden comment” personally I volunteered throughout my furloughed period to keep me sane, I know you could do other paid work if able to find it, but yes I don’t/didn’t know their situation with work during the furloughed period.

In reply to Ridge:

It is legal to work for someone else whilst furloughed.

In reply to veteye:

I’m sure you can take on other paid work as long as you return to main employment when asked, I’m sure  you can even volunteer at work as long as the business is closed,

In reply to veteye:

Only if your company normally allows it, and outside your normal working hours.  

There seems to be a lot of criticism of those who have stayed home while furloughed.  That was partly the point of it in some ways, to keep R below 1.  

In reply to veteye:

Yes, but only if the employer paying you through the furlough scheme agrees to you doing so. 

In reply to trollman:

They are more likely to get help if they have a clear eviction date (obviously things may change due to Covid)

If the council think they can persuade you to keep them on for longer then they won’t help them.  

In reply to trollman:

Somebody I know of got emergency housing sorted out, but only because she didn't voluntarily leave and it was her landlord (in this case) breaking the law about how he was getting her to leave. Suggesting that they apply now to make sure to be okay might be a plan?

In reply to trollman:

Would it be sensible committing to buying the house currently? If you serve your tenants notice and they decide not to leave at the end of the notice period there is very little you can do currently. You could end up losing search/solicitors fees and having to move out of your current house anyway if the sales falls through as a result of your tenants. 

In reply to Timmd:

I am concerned they have made themselves homeless by giving us notice and have almost emptied the house, we were going to give 3 months notice, but they choose to give us 3 weeks, I think in a knee jerk distressed state, maybe they will back track, the other option is we have to move out when our rented house is  sold, find other accommodation, which will be more difficult as wont have the rented income, bit of a mess really 

In reply to SAF:

Yes we can’t commit to spending anything until our house is sold, the market is very busy at the moment we’ve been told, but as you say, we might not be able to move forward

In reply to trollman:

I guess if you manage to sell your rented house before your landlord sells up that might help things?

In reply to trollman:

I think you have been reasonable and  helpful to your tenants....you don't need to feel bad about anything you have done or are doing!

In reply to trollman:

If they’ve made themselves voluntarily homeless then they may have put themselves in a worse position, yes. Some support isn’t available if it was their choice to leave. However, whilst I understand why it concerns you, it is their decision to make and they alone are responsible for the consequences of that.

Ultimately it sounds like you have already done way way more for them than you are obliged to, which is a really kind thing to do. However, you can’t be expected to keep on supporting them indefinitely. 

If one of them has been hospitalised that is very sad, but there are a few things to consider. Firstly, you deciding to sell the house will not be the cause of this. It might be a small part of the picture, but there will be any number of other factors which made them vulnerable to needing acute care. The help you’ve offered thus far may even have helped to keep them from being hospitalised sooner. It is not your fault that this happened.

As well as not being your fault, it is also not your responsibility. A known risk of being in rented accommodation is that the landlord may sell. It might not be a great time right now, but when is there ever a good time to be given notice? You’ve acted more than reasonably, and it sounds like you’ve ticked all the legal boxes. Their relationship and mental health is their own responsibility, and you can only do so much. 

Finally, you need to look after yourself first. This isn’t selfishness, it’s reality. Anyone in a role supporting others, such as healthcare, is told the same thing. You can’t help anyone else if you let yourself get into a sticky situation. You need to do what is right for yourself, and I think you can do that with a clear conscience knowing that you’ve already done more than many people would. 

In reply to trollman:

It sounds like you have acted reasonably and by the book. You aren't responsible for their hardships.

It's a tough time for most people and it is not surprising than many relationships won't survive with the added financial and emotional pressures that lockdown has put on people but this isn't your responsibility either.

As others have pointed out, blaming people for being put on furlough is toxic and is helping nobody.

Furlough is imposed on the employee by the employer. An employee did not get to choose whether they were furloughed or not.

Many people have employment contracts that prevent them from seeking additional employment during furlough. 

In addition to that, the job market is very tough right now, with huge numbers seeking employment and far fewer positions available than usual. 

Quitting a furloughed job for a new job would be reckless for many in the current climate. For your first 2 years, you have effectively zero employment rights and can be terminated for no reason with no notice. Switching jobs right now puts you in a position where you are likely to be the first one out in any future job cuts and where you are unlikely to be eligible for any future furlough type schemes if we have a second large scale lockdown. Leaving your job would also mean forfeiting any redundancy payments you might have been eligible for at the previous job.

So most furloughed people have little choice than to wait it out and hope for the best while fearing/preparing for the worst.

In reply to Stuart Williams:

Thanks for these words, doesn’t take away from the difficult situation, but having some comments from people from outside the situation helps put our minds at ease a little,  that we haven’t been uncaring.

We really did try to help them as much as we are able, but now things are moving beyond our control 

In reply to trollman:

Keep this last bit in mind, it isn't yourselves who has made them up sticks in a short time and decide to start to move out sooner. 

In reply to trollman:

Your first responsibility is to look after you and yours.  If this means taking a hard-nosed attitude to someone else's misfortune then that's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

Bleeding heart liberal I may otherwise be, but you have to put yourselves first.  No-one else is going to do this.  Get your tenants out and your house on the market.  You've been more than reasonable thus far to the point of giving your tenants financial leeway at your own disadvantage.  Swing the balance back to be in your favour.

T.

In reply to trollman:

You have done all that you can do. 

On the subject of selling the house with tenants, I tried this a few years ago. Like you I had great tenants and there were plenty of landlords wanting to add our house to their portfolio, at 15 to 20% below market value. 

In reply to SDM:

Yes, taken note on my the “sitting in the garden comment, it was unfair now I think about it more.

In reply to trollman:

Some government info on the subject with some interesting data to compare with.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/jenrick-extends-ban-on-evictions-and-not...

In reply to Offwidth:

I wonder how many small time landlords will lose their homes due to eviction ban plus the 6 month notice period. When we let our old house it was bonus money but then the Mrs fell ill and was out of work for 2 years, even with the rent coming in we would have been screwed without or our savings. 

In reply to trollman:

Yeah, it sounds like a really difficult situation. I’m not surprised that you are feeling the way you are about it, that sounds like a normal, human response to an all round crappy situation. But feeling bad about the situation doesn’t necessarily mean it is something you can or should do any more to try to resolve. As you say, it’s beyond your control anyway now and it sounds like there quite possibly isn’t any realistic win-win “feel good” outcome.

It sounds like you’ve done right by them. Certainly you’ve done more than I would ever expect any landlord of mine to do. And I speak from the perspective of both a tenant and of someone with more than a little familiarity with mental health, so if I thought otherwise I would absolutely be saying so. 

In reply to Offwidth:

Yes all well and good on paper, but it seems the Government has shifted the responsibility for housing tenents who have lost their income due to the governments decisions, firmly on the shoulders of landlords, in our case we rented our house, moved up north for a cheaper rent,  so my partner could afford to undertake the 3 year nursing course, the government stopped the nursing bursary a few years ago and it was the one way we thought she could do the course without a massive debt on her shoulders, we do feel for our tenants but also so very angry with the absolute incompetence of the government 

In reply to trollman:

Don't shoot the messenger,... I just expected more people to realise this new 6 month rule (let alone the years it might take the legal system to get back to normal timelines on processing evictions) and it does show most people paid full rent, so indicating your rent reduction was comparatively very generous.