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Donalds caught the hoax !

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 tjdodd 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

"Fake news, fake news, when I said I got it, it was fake news"

or

"I told you Biden would rig the election.  He deliberately gave me the virus during the debate to kill me."

2
In reply to tjdodd:

When do we begin with the bleach injections?

1
 tjdodd 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

My only hope is that he really suffers with it, at least as badly as Boris did.  Not that I want anyone to suffer from Covid-19 but to ensure there is some possibility he understands what it is really like.  If he genuinely has tested positive but remains asymptomatic or only has mild symptoms then he will have even more reason to dismiss Covid-19 as nothing more than a cold.

9
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Not that I wish him dead but I do hope he has a very rough time of it. The worse he gets it the more likely he is to change his stance and get to fighting it. 

8
In reply to Dax H:

> Not that I wish him dead but I do hope he has a very rough time of it. The worse he gets it the more likely he is to change his stance and get to fighting it. 

I don't think he thinks that way.

I'm conflicted as to his fate.  

3
 Blunderbuss 02 Oct 2020
In reply to tjdodd:

> My only hope is that he really suffers with it, at least as badly as Boris did.  Not that I want anyone to suffer from Covid-19 but to ensure there is some possibility he understands what it is really like.  If he genuinely has tested positive but remains asymptomatic or only has mild symptoms then he will have even more reason to dismiss Covid-19 as nothing more than a cold.

I think I could make an exception for Trump....

6
 Wainers44 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

I'm sure right now hes thinking:"I'll be fine because I'm smart....."

In reply to The Wild Scallion:

If he has got it and survives then he can protray himself as invincible / the great surviver / it's not that bad. Just feeds his base. I'd still say he's odds on for a win one way or another. If he loses then he can say it's a fix as he had to quartine. No good comes of this!

1
 deacondeacon 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Perhaps he's just saying he has it, in the hopes that he can delay the election. I can't take anything that comes out of his mouth at face value without thinking that it may be a lie to help him. 

3
In reply to deacondeacon:

> Perhaps he's just saying he has it, in the hopes that he can delay the election. I can't take anything that comes out of his mouth at face value without thinking that it may be a lie to help him. 

I always bare that in mind with Donald.  I guess the hydroxychloroquine that he said he's taken doesn't work Donald

1
 Jmacquarrie 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Or he's saying he's tested positive but hasn't so he can "beat" the virus just before the election to prove how healthy he is / how not dangerous the virus is.

Not that I'm cynical or anything.

1
In reply to deacondeacon:

> Perhaps he's just saying he has it, in the hopes that he can delay the election. 

And blame China.

1
 deacondeacon 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Or perhaps it's to get out of the presidential debates, seeing as the first one went so badly for him. It'll make Biden look bad everytime he criticises Trump no too. Also if he gets over Covid quickly and easily the whole situation could be really bad.

Tweet: "yeah I had Covid! It was nothing worse than a cold. Told you it was fine, and nothing to worry about. It only picks on the weak. Loosers."

1
 Jmacquarrie 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Guess nobody is talking about Trump refusing to condemn white supremacists and telling the proud boys to stand by anymore, funny that.

1
 doz 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Dax H:

> Not that I wish him dead 

I do 🙂

12
 minimike 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Well, that Russian vaccine was clearly fake news!

1
 Oceanrower 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

It's his own fault. If he hadn't been tested he wouldn't have had it...

In reply to Jmacquarrie:

> Or he's saying he's tested positive but hasn't so he can "beat" the virus just before the election to prove how healthy he is / how not dangerous the virus is.

> Not that I'm cynical or anything.

Could they delay the election? Serious question. 

 wintertree 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

There’s always Hope.  

In reply to The Wild Scallion:

I still have my suspicions about Johnson's covid infection, everything was a little too convenient, rising on the 3rd day etc. 

Trump will have seen the positive effects the virus had on Johnson's polling. With an election looming, Trump could be responsible for some fake news here. 

10
 Offwidth 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

I think that is unlikely since his doctor confirmed it.

4
 mondite 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

> I still have my suspicions about Johnson's covid infection, everything was a little too convenient, rising on the 3rd day etc. 

Whilst they lied through their teeth about it that was mostly downplaying it. When he left hospital was convenient but then I suspect that might play into why he looks like he is still suffering badly now.

 jethro kiernan 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

At least his swansong debate will be a fitting representation of his presidency, However I’m fully expecting him to make full recovery and capitalise on the sympathy bounce to win the election. Quickly followed by a 3rd wave as trump bigs himself up and belittles the virus.

In reply to Oceanrower:

> It's his own fault. If he hadn't been tested he wouldn't have had it...

Excellent response.

:-D

In reply to Offwidth:

> I think that is unlikely since his doctor confirmed it.

I agree to a point, I am not full tin foil hat on this. I think the infection was at the least exaggerated and the timings manipulated, pure political theatre. Very effective at the time.

As for Trump, he is now in a position where he can tailor his symptoms to help the polls, even calling for postponement of the election whilst he is in iill health. 

Remote debates open a new can of worms, data and fact checking at fingertips, equal cost/benefit to both sides. 

3
 neilh 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Stunning news.

1
 mondite 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

> Remote debates open a new can of worms, data and fact checking at fingertips

have you seen his twitter feed?

In reply to Presley Whippet:

> As for Trump, he is now in a position where he can tailor his symptoms to help the polls, even calling for postponement of the election whilst he is in iill health. 

No doubt he will carry on tweeting that he is the healthiest man on the planet, but if Death taps him on the shoulder he will have to go. 

 waitout 02 Oct 2020
In reply to ewanjp:

> If he has got it and survives then he can protray himself as invincible / the great surviver / it's not that bad. Just feeds his base. I'd still say he's odds on for a win one way or another. If he loses then he can say it's a fix as he had to quartine. No good comes of this!

Spot on. Either way a martyr to his deluded fans. 

2
 john arran 02 Oct 2020
In reply to waitout:

Let me get this straight: If he loses it will be because he had to follow his own rules to quarantine from a manufactured virus that doesn't exist and for which there's always been a simple cure that he himself has taken?

Just checking.

1
 profitofdoom 02 Oct 2020

In reply:

All the bad wishes for a 74-year old who has fallen ill look unpleasant to me

I strongly dislike Trump and hope he loses the election

But that's separate to his illness. I hope he gets well very soon

32
 Eric9Points 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

I expect this is the first time he's passed a test without having paid someone else to take it for him.

1
 Cobra_Head 02 Oct 2020
In reply to profitofdoom:

> But that's separate to his illness. I hope he gets well very soon

By doing that though, he'll be condemning thousands more to die, people will think it's nothing to worry about, Trump will tell us he was right all along and you can just fight it off.

While no wishing him dead, I'd like to see him in intensive care, fighting for his life. If nothing else it's karma for the people he's killed, with his blasé attitude and denial of scientific facts.

2
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Worryingly it didn't do Boris any harm when he got it. Carole Cadwalladr sums it up well on Twitter...

A reminder to all Americans that the net effect of our prime minister catching COVID-19 was that it prompted a surge of patriotic support. From which he emerged with renewed popularity. Which enabled him to tear up key functions of the state.

It also silenced press & parliament at key moment in crisis from asking critical questions. And when it was announced he was moving to intensive care was moment of national shock. Everything about this is rocket fuel for ‘patriotism’.

Donald Trump has the ‘China plague’. If I was Chinese-American, I would be f*cking terrified right now.

Alan

 tom r 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Presley Whippet:

Thing is all this is questioning facts and reality is exactly what they (Putin, Trump, Johnson) want you to be doing.

 Hardonicus 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

I'm fairly cynical on this one. Could it be used for electioneering and to avoid further presidential debates? Certainly.

Still fingers crossed I'm proved wrong and he dies.

3
 profitofdoom 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> .........If I was Chinese-American, I would be f*cking terrified right now.

Alan, I hadn't thought of that. It's horrifying and bad news

Among all the depressing things this year, the sight (in the media) of Chinese students getting abused in Singapore and in the UK - just because they were Chinese - (I think it was in April) was one of the worst for me

1
In reply to Hardonicus:

Surely the biggest worry is that he may use it as a way of postponing the election ?

 Enty 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

> I'm conflicted as to his fate.  

I'm not.

E

2
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Reach for that bleach Donald 

 wercat 02 Oct 2020
In reply to ewanjp:

> If he has got it and survives then he can protray himself as invincible / the great surviver / it's not that bad. Just feeds his base. I'd still say he's odds on for a win one way or another. If he loses then he can say it's a fix as he had to quartine. No good comes of this!


that crossed my mind - He can say "That Joe Biden, he wudda died, Bigtime.  I'm Strong and Smart."

it would make tactical sense for him to lie that he has it and then claim it hardly affected him at all, a superman He.

Post edited at 09:32
 deacondeacon 02 Oct 2020
In reply to profitofdoom:

> In reply:

> All the bad wishes for a 74-year old who has fallen ill look unpleasant to me

> I strongly dislike Trump and hope he loses the election

> But that's separate to his illness. I hope he gets well very soon

OK, I'm going to say it. Hitler. Would I have been able to wish Hitler dead in his heyday? 

People are dieing because of Trumps policies and that is not a Tinfoil hat theory. 

5
 doz 02 Oct 2020
In reply to profitofdoom:

> In reply:

> All the bad wishes for a 74-year old who has fallen ill look unpleasant to me

> I strongly dislike Trump and hope he loses the election

> But that's separate to his illness. I hope he gets well very soon

I'd save your sympathy for the countless individuals who have suffered as a direct or indirect consequence of this particular 74 year old's actions as he has bullied, abused and lied his way through his life

1
In reply to Dax H:

> Not that I wish him dead 

But I do think the world would be better place without him.

 Enty 02 Oct 2020
In reply to profitofdoom:

> In reply:

> All the bad wishes for a 74-year old who has fallen ill look unpleasant to me

> I strongly dislike Trump and hope he loses the election

> But that's separate to his illness. I hope he gets well very soon


Any racist, misogynistic homophobe who stands on national TV and tells a white supremacist group to stand back and stand by needs taking out. Hopefull Covid will do it in a medical way so there's no  mess.

E

2
 Yanis Nayu 02 Oct 2020
In reply to profitofdoom:

> In reply:

> All the bad wishes for a 74-year old who has fallen ill look unpleasant to me

> I strongly dislike Trump and hope he loses the election

> But that's separate to his illness. I hope he gets well very soon

That’s how I felt about Johnson, who is a piece of shit but nothing on Trump. Trump is the next stage down on human evil from serial killers or murderous dictators (which I’m sure he would be if he thought he could get away with it). I think if I’m being honest I wouldn’t celebrate if he died but I’d be quietly pleased. The man has no redeeming features whatsoever and his actions have caused untold suffering. 

In reply to Enty:

I'm struggling to regret this turn of events also. Are there any medics here who would care to give a prognosis based on likely exposure, age, weight and so on? If he walks away unscathed that would not be a good outcome.

 Greenbanks 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Trump will medicate with a BigMac, fries and intravenous coca-cola, all adminstered by the Proud Boys. That'll sort it.

 Yanis Nayu 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I’m not sure I believe it anyway. It’ll get him out of the debates, he’ll recover fully and show his manliness and vigour to his moronic supporters. 

 mondite 02 Oct 2020
In reply to JJ Krammerhead III:

> Reach for that bleach Donald 

Dont forget to insert a torch where the sun dont shine.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Yes I think there's room for some scepticism. 

 the sheep 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Enty:

> Any racist, misogynistic homophobe who stands on national TV and tells a white supremacist group to stand back and stand by needs taking out. Hopefull Covid will do it in a medical way so there's no  mess.

> E

It would be rather fitting for him to suffer with it right up to the point he finds out he has lost the election. After that he can shuffle off to whatever circle of hell awaits him.

Thats if this isnt all a big lie!

 waitout 02 Oct 2020
In reply to john arran:

> Let me get this straight: If he loses it will be because he had to follow his own rules to quarantine from a manufactured virus that doesn't exist and for which there's always been a simple cure that he himself has taken?

> Just checking.

Correct. All that Hydroxychloquine really helped.

 ali k 02 Oct 2020

I hope he doesn’t die. Much better for him to lose the election, be debilitated by long covid for the next few years while he’s in and out of court fighting multiple lawsuits for sexual harassment, tax evasion and corruption before finally ending up bankrupt and in jail where he spends the rest of his days completely ignored by society and without access to Twitter.

 Wainers44 02 Oct 2020
In reply to waitout:

> Correct. All that Hydroxychloquine really helped.

I had a big night out on that stuff last night. My head today.....shocking....

 Sir Chasm 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Are you and Presley sure about a surge in support for Bojo after catching covid? This is from Matt Singh

"This is not what happened. Two separate polls (by us and Opinium) done BEFORE Johnson announced his positive test on 27th March put the Tories on 54% with a 26 point lead. We had him on 72% satisfaction. Neither that, nor his ICU admission, had a discernible effect on the polls." https://t.co/1K7YVwiKoL 

 cb294 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Jmacquarrie:

Seems to work for Bolsonaro!

 Eric9Points 02 Oct 2020
In reply to ali k:

> I hope he doesn’t die. Much better for him to lose the election, be debilitated by long covid for the next few years while he’s in and out of court fighting multiple lawsuits for sexual harassment, tax evasion and corruption before finally ending up bankrupt and in jail where he spends the rest of his days completely ignored by society and without access to Twitter.

Quite.

My fervent hope is that whatever happens the election goes ahead and he's thrown out of office as soon as possible. That's what's vitally important.

 The Lemming 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Oceanrower:

> It's his own fault. If he hadn't been tested he wouldn't have had it...


I like this one.

In reply to The Wild Scallion:

If he lives, he'll claim it was nothing and he's invincible. If he dies from it then it'll be a relentless onslaught of sickening tributes.

I'm guessing Melania must be hoping it's her payday to cash out on the gold digger account.

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

If the tax returns are anything to go by she may be in for a disappointment.

 jon 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Dax H:

> Not that I wish him dead...

What? He's the most evil piece of shit the world has produced in decades. I hope he dies in agony face down on a f*cking ventilator. No good pussyfooting around stuff like this...

7
In reply to Offwidth:

> I think that is unlikely since his doctor confirmed it.

Is that the same Doctor that confirmed that he was the healthiest President ever. His personal Doctor up until 2017 has since claimed that Trump wrote all the medical reports submitted as part of the 2016 election and that his actual medical records were illegally ceased by the Trump team.

It is impossible to know if he really has it or it is a stunt, but I wouldn't trust usually trustworthy sources such as Doctors on this, there is a long history of misinformation around his health, which Doctors have been compliant in.

Post edited at 12:04
 capoap 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

I have to say the World & The USA would be a better place with the Baboon.  Give him some of his bleach to help him on his way

 wercat 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I think I'd be honest if I said I'd be very relieved if he died or was wholly incapacitated  for a very very long time with longlasting and debilitating after effects.

I'd be very hard put not to feel the world had become a little better, same for Vlad.

Post edited at 13:10
2
In reply to Offwidth:

> I think that is unlikely since his doctor confirmed it.

It's also a pretty stupid strategy since there's a fairly high chance he'd catch it for real in the next few months and everybody would know he was lying the first time.

I think it is what it looks like - d*ckhead that acts like virus doesn't exist and refuses to take precautions in a pandemic catches virus.

His entourage at the debate were not wearing masks, except for Melania, and were quite likely infectious.   Joe Biden was also in the danger zone with Trump yelling in his direction.

Apparently, it isn't clear what happens if a candidate dies or withdraws from a Presidential Election in the last few weeks.  The ballots are already printed and some people have already voted.  

 Morgan Woods 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

I feel sorry for the virus.

 jkarran 02 Oct 2020
In reply to tom r:

> Thing is all this is questioning facts and reality is exactly what they (Putin, Trump, Johnson) want you to be doing.

Questioning reports, facts are verifiable. Does anyone take his laughable annual medical reports at face value or his bone spurs for that matter? It'd be a big lie but he's not without form here.

It's a convenient time for DT to get covid. It ducks him out of damaging debates, pushes the white supremacy stuff out of the news (while leaving the actual nazis energised), it'll rally patriotic voters to him and in the eyes of those wavering in his base his half-arsed failure re. covid will be justified: it's harmless and the president a vigorous mountain of a man unlike 'sleepy-Joe'. All assuming of course he's lying or isn't and survives which would still be odds on even for an old lard-ball like Trump.

If it's true though Pence must now have half an eye on a purer form of Gilead with the orange devil out of his way and the martyr's flag draped coffin to rally American patriots to the party. If anyone does, few deserve a really rotten time with covid more than Trump but we should be careful what we might wish for.

It's easy with that in mind to wonder whether the claim will or can be stood up.

jk

Post edited at 13:49
 dread-i 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

I think that we should all wish him to get better and loose the election. If he steps aside because of ill health, then Pence will take over. We'll have more of the same dubious polices on climate, China etc, but less openly racist rhetoric.

 Christy 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Pete Pozman:

Not really. If they delay past January then Pelosi gets sworn in as the highest ranking elected official.  Not really a win for Republicans.  

As for him getting it.  The quotes "It is what it is" and "I don't really care, do you?" spring to mind.  Remember this is someone who made fun of others over this virus.  He mocked anyone trying to save lives with masks.  What I can say is that hopefully it gives him a new perspective and they stop shrugging their shoulders over ~1K deaths a day.

If he has it obviously.  His medical records have long been suspect but I think he has it.  Certainly the military planes were making a show of strength before it was announced(official policy when leadership seems weakened is to show off the big guns a bit to ensure no one gets any ideas). 

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

It is clear what would happen if Trump died. Pence would take over in the short term, whilst the Republican National Convention (3 delegates from each state) decided on his replacement. Obviously anything beyond January is subject to the result of the election.

 Darron 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

I do feel sorry for the virus at this difficult time.

 mondite 02 Oct 2020
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

> It's also a pretty stupid strategy since there's a fairly high chance he'd catch it for real in the next few months and everybody would know he was lying the first time.

Yeah because the one thing Trump hates is being caught lying. He just instantly folds and doesnt double down with a dozen new lies.

As it happens I would tend towards it being the truth but as reasons go the being bothered about lying or thinking long term is a weak one.

Post edited at 14:24
 Eric9Points 02 Oct 2020
In reply to jon:

> What? He's the most evil piece of shit the world has produced in decades. I hope he dies in agony face down on a f*cking ventilator. No good pussyfooting around stuff like this...

He isn't.

In fact in his tenure in office the US have been involved in fewer military conflicts than they have under most or all of his recent predecessors. It's important to acknowledge that.

He doesn't kill his political opponents like Putin. 

He hadn't thrown a million of his citizens into concentration camps like Xi Jinping.

Etc, etc.

There are much worse leaders than Trump.

7
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

This is my version of a conspiracy theory: Trump already knew he had the virus when he went into the debate and thought he could pass it on to Biden by continually shouting in his direction.

He's not smart but he is very, very cunning. 

 Yanis Nayu 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

It’s semantics really. He’s certainly on a list of humans who the world would be better off without. I bet even his own family hate him. 

1
 Graeme G 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

> There are much worse leaders than Trump.

As much as many of us would hate to admit, you’re spot on. I think our relationship with the US is confused because we somehow feel connected to them. When in fact they’re as foreign to us as any country on the planet.  John Sopel summed it up for me. 

https://www.waterstones.com/book/if-only-theydidnt-speak-english/jon-sopel/9781785942273

 Roadrunner6 02 Oct 2020
In reply to tjdodd:

>  If he genuinely has tested positive but remains asymptomatic or only has mild symptoms then he will have even more reason to dismiss Covid-19 as nothing more than a cold.

This is my worry. He gets a very mild version and which supports the over reaction view.

I really hope he stays fairly healthy. If he dies the backlash would be huge. Dems would be blamed for killing him. Obviously I don't wish anyone dead regardless but I just think him dying of it would really destabilize the nation when we need some stability and normality.

 Eric9Points 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

The NYT is reporting that both Republican and Democrat pundits think this will be bad for him given his famously dismissive attitude to C19.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/10/02/us/trump-vs-biden/trumps-disclosure-upends-the-campaign-in-its-final-stretch

As you said previously 90% of people have already decided and some have already voted. Also his last big chance of swaying opinion was in the last two debates. They won't happen now so leaves him with few opportunities to turn things round.

 Roadrunner6 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

Yeah, they may squeeze one last debate in but by then millions will have voted and at best it will be 1-1. 

I think it does reflect badly because of how much around him will be infected as they've been taking so few precautions. This was just a matter of when, not if. Plus the laughing at Biden, even in the debate, about wearing the mask.

In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Whilst he has said a load of batshit crazy things. I don't think Trump has ever said the virus didn't exist.

I'm experiencing schadenfreude like I did when Johnson got it after his very similar "it's just a cold" "I've been shaking hands with everyone" comments.

At least Johnson didn't push bleach, internal high energy UV, hydroxychloroquine, etc. and, whilst he didn't press for use of masks early on, at least he didn't openly mock those wearing them.

I don't consider it beyond the bounds of possibility that it's a lie, as an election gamble of some sort.

Post edited at 15:24
 Roadrunner6 02 Oct 2020
In reply to captain paranoia:

My wife thinks that but it just looks bad for him. He needs a good debate and for Joe to look bad publicly.

Even a hard line republican friend I have, an MD smart guy, says people are just tired of Trump and if Biden just says nothing stupid he will win. They need that debate.

 Blanche DuBois 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

> There are much worse leaders than Trump.

Yes, but none from supposedly modern democracies.  Exactly how low are you setting the bar when you're saying at least he's not as bad as the leader of North Korea?

1
 Roadrunner6 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Blanche DuBois:

Yeah we're now seeing deliberate blocking of the vote. The sending of 'poll watchers' to intimidate, limiting ballot boxes, closing polling stations. We're right up there with some pretty awful countries right now.

1
 Eric9Points 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Blanche DuBois:

Well yes but that wasn't the point I was addressing.

That said, what about Orban in Hungary or just about any head of state in sub Saharan Africa?

5
In reply to Darron:

> I do feel sorry for the virus at this difficult time.

That's one of the funniest comments I've seen on these forums for a long time!

 Andy Hardy 02 Oct 2020
In reply to captain paranoia:

> I don't consider it beyond the bounds of possibility that it's a lie, as an election gamble of some sort.

It would be sweet karma if he was lying now, then gets it when he comes out of his self imposed purdah.

 Yanis Nayu 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> >  If he genuinely has tested positive but remains asymptomatic or only has mild symptoms then he will have even more reason to dismiss Covid-19 as nothing more than a cold.

> This is my worry. He gets a very mild version and which supports the over reaction view.

> I really hope he stays fairly healthy. If he dies the backlash would be huge. Dems would be blamed for killing him. Obviously I don't wish anyone dead regardless but I just think him dying of it would really destabilize the nation when we need some stability and normality.

I don’t agree - it’s not like Russia where Putin going would leave a potentially dangerous power vacuum. Quite how it could be spun that Trump catching Covid was the fault of the Democrats I’m really not sure. 

 Blanche DuBois 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

> That said, what about Orban in Hungary or just about any head of state in sub Saharan Africa?

Would you call any of these modern democracies?

 Roadrunner6 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

I think we'll see accusations of poisoning but also just the general issues of what to do. How to get someone else on the ticket. There will be loads of conspiracy theories.

A guy walked into a pizza parlor and brandishing an Ar15 because someone said John Podesta had kids trapped in there. There's a number of American's who are very crazy.

But say he dies before the election, do votes case now for Trump count? Presumably Pence steps on. The act of congress is pretty clear on the dates but I think there will be attempts to delay the election.

A million+ have voted already. Say he dies right before the election, in 3 weeks. Millions and millions will have voted. You've got a constitutional crisis. Do you just ignore all votes cast for him? Which you really have to because Trump got many red state democrats type who probably wouldn't vote for Pence.

Another GOP senator now has COVID.

 Yanis Nayu 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Ah, I see. More complicated than I thought. 

In reply to The Wild Scallion:

My guess is that the timing of this announcement, coming soon after he made headlines for failing to condemn white supremacy groups, is more than just coincidence.

But I am a nasty, suspicious man.  Bet I'm right though.

T.

3
 Eric9Points 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Blanche DuBois:

> Would you call any of these modern democracies?

The EU seems to think so.

 Andy Gamisou 02 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

I like presidents that don't catch covid-19.

 waitout 02 Oct 2020

It would be an enormous constitutional matter to reroute an election because the incumbent died, regardless of timing. It's specific that votes are for parties not individuals. Delaying doesn't change the presidential tenure nor process, there's no other precedent aside from vice stepping up however one cuts it. Consider what a hypothetical delay would be for, the Republicans to pick another candidate? There is already process for that.

Pence would be better hands down. A loathsome arch-con unquestionably, but with Pence you would get someone who has the edifice of being in office, can participate in things like debates and G8 summits, address a crowd not a mob, read the briefings etc. It would to a degree gut the Trump clan infestation and perhaps the 3am Twitter method of ruling, maybe step back from open association with Alt Right conspiracy peddlers and tone down the personal, cross burning populism and chants of name calling. It may actually tone down the whole rigged election thing. I have the idea many Republicans and conservatives would pick that given the choice, very probably Democrats too. 

Pence vs Biden would be a return to identifiable politics. If the Democrats lose, losing to Pence would still be a small part of a win. To paraphrase PJ O'Rourke, Pence is "wrong in every way, but wrong within normal parameters".

1
 waitout 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Blanche DuBois:

One could argue Hungary is one of the most modern of democracies, albeit one that's rapidly started flirting with fascism.

 Blanche DuBois 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

> The EU seems to think so.

I assume you refer to Orban with this comment, in which case you're wrong.  The EU has been at loggerheads with Hungary (and Poland) for quite some time. 

Still, if you want to be a Trumpian fanboy and sing his praises from the highest tree go ahead.  Perhaps, once he recovers, you can arrange a threesome with him, Boris and yourself.  Feel free to have the last word.  Consider it my gift to you. 

5
 freeflyer 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

> My guess is that the timing of this announcement, coming soon after he made headlines for failing to condemn white supremacy groups, is more than just coincidence.

> But I am a nasty, suspicious man.  Bet I'm right though.

This.

If I was Hope Hicks, I would be saying, "look Donny darling you need a ratings boost, a heroic recovery from C19 worked for that English guy, you can just get a viroid or two from me, the doctors can save you and you'll be President. You conquered the virus and everyone will love you. This virus is weak and you are stronger."

It's his only hope. Tell me I'm wrong

Edit: and, Biden's only hope is to get it too (the virus not Hope).

Post edited at 21:05
 mondite 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Pete Pozman:

> He's not smart but he is very, very cunning. 

I think that is overrating him and is really the really depressing and scary thing.

When you look at his history of public vomiting and previous election campaigns (dont believe the lies about 2016 being the first)  he is a tedious two trick pony. Project his own failings on others and blame the other.

Its nothing new and no real flexibility in approach its just last time and maybe this time the public was vulnerable to him although never forget it was the f*cked up system that let him in.

He is a symtom not the cause.

1
In reply to The Wild Scallion

The BBC are reporting he's being taken to hospital despite having "mild symptoms" and the White House having a fully staffed medical team. As reported it sounds very similar to Johnson's case a few months ago. Trump has a good 20 years on Johnson mind... 

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

It's quite obviously a serious case, requiring the best possible hospital treatment beyond what the White House medical unit is capable of.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> It's quite obviously a serious case, requiring the best possible hospital treatment beyond what the White House medical unit is capable of.

Dead in days I reckon. Boo hoo. 

4
In reply to Jon Stewart:

It's certainly a real possibility. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, yet it's almost as if he wished it upon himself so mocking was he of its seriousness. Failing that, we have to consider the fantastic notion that he's just very, very thick.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Incomprehensible levels of callousness (I don't care if other people are dying), stupidity (I don't understand why I need to do anything), and arrogance (it won't happen to me because I'm special).

Deserves all the fear and suffering coming his way. You don't f*ck with coronavirus when you're an old boater like Donald.

2
 waitout 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Shame it's not McConnell instead. Trump sucks but there's other ways to get rid of him like voting. McConnell will still be there whatever happens to Donny.

 Roadrunner6 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Pete Pozman:

He's not though is he. He's had a terrible presidency in terms of the Midwest. If he was cunning he'd have looked after mid west farmers, miners and manufacturing. He thinks 2-3 days ahead.

 Roadrunner6 02 Oct 2020
In reply to waitout:

There was a lot at the judges party at the white house. We could yet see quite a few dead senators...

 Wainers44 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Incomprehensible levels of callousness (I don't care if other people are dying), stupidity (I don't understand why I need to do anything), and arrogance (it won't happen to me because I'm special).

> Deserves all the fear and suffering coming his way. You don't f*ck with coronavirus when you're an old boater like Donald.

Yes, absolutely,  but I bet it wont be his fault....

 waitout 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

"It was the salmon mousse!" springs to mind. I wonder if there's odds available?

A good time for a viewing of The Death of Stalin.

 mik82 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Clearly - he's been treated with an experimental medication already "as a precaution". As with Boris Johnson going to ITU, nothing like that is done "as a precaution"

 lithos 02 Oct 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

whats the implications for the supreme court - will it delay the attempted appointment ?

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

I wonder if the hospitalisation is part of the strategy. We’ll see.

 Roadrunner6 03 Oct 2020
In reply to lithos:

> whats the implications for the supreme court - will it delay the attempted appointment ?

It depends on the senators who also get it. Possibly not. It's now in the senate's hands but I'm not sure if they can vote remotely. I didn't think so.

 freeflyer 03 Oct 2020
In reply to Kalna_kaza:

> If he lives, he'll claim it was nothing and he's invincible. If he dies from it then it'll be a relentless onslaught of sickening tributes.

> I'm guessing Melania must be hoping it's her payday to cash out on the gold digger account.


I wonder what have the biggest effect on him - him having it badly, or Melania having it badly.

 Roadrunner6 03 Oct 2020
In reply to waitout:

Second GOP senator has tested positive after the Rose Garden event.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> Surely the biggest worry is that he may use it as a way of postponing the election ?

No it isn't, the biggest fear is that he may use it as a way of winning the election.

jcm

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> It's quite obviously a serious case, requiring the best possible hospital treatment beyond what the White House medical unit is capable of.

 'Mild symptoms' and 'a bit tired' don't quite square with experimental intravenous drugs and needing multiple days in hospital so soon after catching it.

Either he's f*cked or he's trying some risky treatment which might get him though it quicker because of the election.

 john arran 03 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

UPDATE: Doctors at Walter Reed say the President is “in hypocritical condition”.

(Thank you Twitter)

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

> No it isn't, the biggest fear is that he may use it as a way of winning the election.

> jcm

Umm. You could be right, I suppose, that this is how a lot of voters think: 'He's shown himself to be a complete idiot, so let's vote for a complete idiot.' ? ?

2
 Jmacquarrie 03 Oct 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> Umm. You could be right, I suppose, that this is how a lot of voters think: 'He's shown himself to be a complete idiot, so let's vote for a complete idiot.' ? ?

It's not stopped our current bunch of incompetents from winning the last election

In reply to Jmacquarrie:

Yes, on the same curious principle.

 Roadrunner6 03 Oct 2020
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

A local police chief near me just died from a reaction to remdesivir, and it only makes some improvements. I think he's in a bad way.

There's photos going around on twitter showing potential oxygen tubes as he's walking to the chopper. 

I really hope he pulls through. The US doesn't need this. Tbh I think it harms his re election campaign. It shows what a bafoon he is, only 4 days ago he was laughing at biden for using masks. His family turned up too late to be tested at the debate and refused to wear masks.

My big fear is biden has it. Negative tests don't mean he didn't catch it off him, he'll need to keep having negative tests.

 Darron 03 Oct 2020
In reply to Andy Gamisou:

> I like presidents that don't catch covid-19.

This. By his own standard he is now officially a “Loser!!”

I wish I could remember how to spell schadenfreude😊

 Roadrunner6 03 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

We're now at 3 senators.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/03/politics/ron-johnson-coronavirus/index.html

3 senators, a president, an advisor and a few others. All fairly elderly. It's getting quite likely that one of them doesn't make it. And the chances are more positive cases to come. Hopefully they all pull through but then start treating this seriously.

There's obvious irony in that their celebrations of the Judge's nomination now threatens to derail the process.

Post edited at 16:07
 Duncan Bourne 03 Oct 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

> There are much worse leaders than Trump.

Oh come on give the man a chance. He hasn't rigged his re-eLection yet (or Putin hasn't)

> In fact in his tenure in office the US have been involved in fewer military conflicts than they have under most or all of his recent predecessors. It's important to acknowledge that.

This is quite an interesting point. That wall must be doing something.

In reply to Roadrunner6:

I suspect that unless Biden catches it too or this dodgy drug cocktail gets Trump through it quickly the US election campaign is effectively over.

Too many of the Republican team are going to be ill in the final weeks to keep campaign momentum going.   And Trump catching it and needing hospitalized completely trashes their narrative on Covid.

If I was a political donor I'd be looking at the odds and thinking its pointless to put more money into getting Trump re-elected.

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump associates start fleeing the country if half the stuff they say about his finances is true.

Post edited at 16:48
2
 George Ormerod 03 Oct 2020
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

Here’s hoping this source is right:

“He’s f**ked, we’re f**ked,” said one White House aide who is not authorised to speak publicly. “No matter what we do, the next two weeks or more will be about him not being able to protect himself or us from Covid.”
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/trump-covid-administration-insiders-mike-pence-election-over-b749588.html

1
In reply to Toerag:

> I wonder what have the biggest effect on him - him having it badly, or Melania having it badly.

Who was that other person? 

 MargieB 03 Oct 2020
In reply to George Ormerod:

He belittled disabled people, he belittled women, he's careless of other people  and he is like some awful tyrant who wants sympathy and love when he gets struck down. He's shocking. He's given out precious little .His full personality revealed.

Post edited at 17:48
 toad 03 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

For someone who hates the NHS, that's an awful lot of healthcare he's getting for his $750 

Post edited at 19:48
 George Ormerod 03 Oct 2020
In reply to MargieB:

All true, but I still don't want him dead.  Imagine the vomit inducing tributes from the right, martyrdom and bonkers conspiracy theories.  As said up thread, better for him to face defeat and the judgement of history (and hopefully the courts) for his corruption and terrible presidency. 

Off to look for the worlds tiniest violin now.

In reply to George Ormerod:

If he snuffs it and they embalm him, will anyone be able to tell?

1
 George Ormerod 03 Oct 2020
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

> If he snuffs it and they embalm him, will anyone be able to tell?

He'd be a much better President for starters.

 waitout 04 Oct 2020
In reply to George Ormerod:

> Off to look for the worlds tiniest violin now.

Good luck finding tinier than Nancy Pelosi's.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

> If he snuffs it and they embalm him, will anyone be able to tell?

They'd wonder why their hearing suddenly got so much better. 

 Andy Gamisou 04 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

From The Guadian: "The President's construct crumbled Friday when he was airlifted to Walter Reed after contracting the virus, while many aides, advisers and allies were testing positive for Covid-19 after interacting with him over the past week."

 Given this, and his liking for catchy nicknames for people, and with an eye on history, how does "Typhoid Trump" sound?

 Roadrunner6 04 Oct 2020
In reply to waitout:

The amazing thing is the right are not happy at people laughing at him. Which I don't think is right either, however when he was laughing at Clinton's pneumonia, that was funny to them.

This whole episode highlights the incompetence of hypocrisy of his politics.

I hope he survives though, to be voted out, but mainly for stability. We are already seeing some of his supporters saying 'they infected him', when he's mixing with people, indoors, with no masks ti be seen.

 jon 04 Oct 2020
In reply to Andy Gamisou:

The Trump virus.

In reply to Jmacquarrie:

> Or he's saying he's tested positive but hasn't so he can "beat" the virus just before the election to prove how healthy he is / how not dangerous the virus is.

> Not that I'm cynical or anything.

This is my latest theory. Trump has already died. The man we saw getting in Marine One was one of his many body doubles (all dictators have them, right?). The voice we heard from the presidential hospital bed was that of Rory Bremner. Melania is dealing with the twitter account. 

But then, I did recently watch Death of Stalin.

 jkarran 04 Oct 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> I hope he survives though, to be voted out, but mainly for stability.

He's already indicated he will contest any result but a trump win, that he won't go quietly. Why do we never take tyrants at their word on this until too late?

Jk

 Andy Gamisou 04 Oct 2020
In reply to Rog Wilko:

I heard that Alec Baldwin is no longer available to SNL - got some new 4 year engagement lined up apparently.

 Andy Gamisou 04 Oct 2020
In reply to jkarran:

> He's already indicated he will contest any result but a trump win, that he won't go quietly. Why do we never take tyrants at their word on this until too late?

Might as well change the quote to "Those who learn from history are still doomed to repeat it, so why bother".

Post edited at 19:24
 waitout 04 Oct 2020
In reply to Rog Wilko:

> But then, I did recently watch Death of Stalin.

Great film. Trump could be any one of those main characters. The similarities with the children are striking. 

In reply to Roadrunner6:

I hope he survives for similar reasons, he needs to be voted out. Prison for treason would obviously be a cherry on top.

I hear Chris Christie has caught C19 from him, now there is a man that makes Trump look healthy.

Post edited at 22:42
 Roadrunner6 04 Oct 2020
In reply to jkarran:

> He's already indicated he will contest any result but a trump win, that he won't go quietly. Why do we never take tyrants at their word on this until too late?

> Jk

I don't, but I don't think Washington would put up with it. The military neither. We'd see riots on the streets like we've never seen and the US economy will be destroyed. The rest of Washington Politics makes too much money from their positions to risk the greater economy on Trump. 

Power in the US is about money. The need people spending money and happy to make their millions.

Post edited at 23:57
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Well, he won't just not go, will he? He'll declare victory, bring law suits in every state where he's lost about some nonsense or other, and rely upon Republican governors to say - well, the count's uncertain, we'll just nominate our own electors, and/or, if there's no result by what's supposed to be inauguration day, I'm still the president, and, look the senate agree with me, and I'm going to bring another lawsuit to prove it, and so on.

I must say though I'm going to enjoy the part where he tells the Proud Boys it's time to stop standing by, and we get to see the likes of Kyle Rittenhouse take on the US Marines.

jcm

Post edited at 03:16
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

http://news.sky.com/story/trump-pays-surprise-visit-to-supporters-outside-hospital-12090431

There's no end to the narcissistic.

"Dr James Phillips, chief of disaster medicine at George Washington University and an attending physician at Walter Reed Medical Center, described the drive-by as "insanity".

He wrote on Twitter: "That presidential SUV is not only bulletproof, but hermetically sealed against chemical attack. The risk of COVID-19 transmission inside is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures. The irresponsibility is astounding. My thoughts are with the Secret Service forced to play." 

In reply to The Wild Scallion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuAB4aDuJ00&

Gooooooooooooooooooooooon!!!!

In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Curiously his 'personal physician' is pretty close to being a quack. Or to put it another way, if I had the virus I wouldn't want an 'holistic osteopath' responsible for my treatment.

It would be ironic if Trump's lack of judgement and need for sycophants caused his demise.

 girlymonkey 05 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

At least they were both wearing masks, and the driver's one appeared to be one with a filter. Still highly irresponsible and self-centred, but I do feel it is a tiny step forward in his, very limited, thinking!

In reply to The Wild Scallion:

> There's no end to the narcissistic.

> "Dr James Phillips, chief of disaster medicine at George Washington University and an attending physician at Walter Reed Medical Center, described the drive-by as "insanity".

> He wrote on Twitter: "That presidential SUV is not only bulletproof, but hermetically sealed against chemical attack. The risk of COVID-19 transmission inside is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures. The irresponsibility is astounding. My thoughts are with the Secret Service forced to play." 

Are you sure it was him? Body double?

In reply to Rog Wilko:

> Are you sure it was him? Body double?

He's so big, it would have to be at least a body treble... 

1
 Andy Hardy 05 Oct 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnJhta_hwCA&feature=emb_logo

I'm not at all sure he has CV-19. He doesn't seem very ill in this clip, certainly not ill enough to require admission to hospital.

 jkarran 05 Oct 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> I don't, but I don't think Washington would put up with it. The military neither. We'd see riots on the streets like we've never seen and the US economy will be destroyed.

Which bit of the military, all of it to a man? Or might his secret service detail stand by him and take him to his bunker while he contacts those that remain loyal.

With him settled into his castle they'd have to nuke him from orbit to get rid of him or persuade someone inside, in a situation escalating toward civil war, to betray him. He doesn't need them all, he needs some of them to stand by him at the right moment, after that he becomes physically untouchable.

Liberal ANTIFA riots, maybe even foreign agitators? His base with their militias will lap it up. Send in the troops! He'll still be CiC as he contests the result.

> The rest of Washington Politics makes too much money from their positions to risk the greater economy on Trump.

Will his own government pull the plug on him and hand power to the Democrats if the alternative is sitting out a rough patch? They might, I don't know the personalities involved but the money behind them will be keen to see the investment pay off, the pressure in the first instance (which is the moment that really matters while he digs in) won't be on them to roll over quickly.

> Power in the US is about money. The need people spending money and happy to make their millions.

And they buy pliant politicians to turn their millions into billions, in the first instance the money behind Trump will be bullish, by the time they baulk at the cost it may be too late.

Anyway, this assumes he survives and loses.

I hope this isn't how it plays out but it's possible, he has shown time and again the weakness of the conventions and institutions assumed to constrain presidential power in the face of a shameless rogue commander.

jk

Post edited at 10:03
2
 Ridge 05 Oct 2020
In reply to Andy Hardy:

> I'm not at all sure he has CV-19. He doesn't seem very ill in this clip, certainly not ill enough to require admission to hospital.

My thoughts exactly. Publicity stunt to show Covid is nothing to fit American heros like him. Only losers get sick if they catch it.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

> I'm not at all sure he has CV-19. He doesn't seem very ill in this clip, certainly not ill enough to require admission to hospital.

Or they pumped him up with oxygen and dexamethasone and splattered him with makeup so he'd look OK for a few minutes...

They're chucking the entire drug cabinet at him probably not something they'd do if there wasn't a problem. 

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

I don't think you can trust a single word that any of them say - a bit like the situation we have here, really. 

I'm afraid I really hope that he is infected and remains incapacitated, surely there has to be an end to the madness in the US - or it could yet become the worlds greatest ever failed state, a Somalia on steroids. Huge inequalities, overt corruption from the top down, and any number of militia groups armed with awesome firepower. I shan't be emigrating any time soon.

2
 mondite 05 Oct 2020
In reply to Ridge:

> My thoughts exactly. Publicity stunt to show Covid is nothing to fit American heros like him. Only losers get sick if they catch it.


Hasnt he failed that by needing to go to hospital?

 Ridge 05 Oct 2020
In reply to mondite:

> Hasnt he failed that by needing to go to hospital?

Fake news, he went to a luxury health spa, not a hospital 😉

 Roadrunner6 05 Oct 2020
In reply to jkarran:

I think he's too much of a coward not to go.

Time will tell. The military stood up to him over the protests.

 Eric9Points 05 Oct 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Yep.

He's the epitome of the bullshitter and it's served him well in business and politics. If he loses he'll try every legal avenue open to him to find some kind of get out, just like he would do in a business deal that has gone wrong but at the end of the day, he'll go.

Of course that's also been his downfall. You can't bullshit a virus, it just does what it does.

 jkarran 05 Oct 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> I think he's too much of a coward not to go.

Maybe. I can foresee a situation where it would, after incremental escalation, be pretty frightening for him to back down from a divisive stand-off and hand over power. Cowardice is no guarantee he'll cave *if* he gets dug in early.

> Time will tell. The military stood up to him over the protests.

Some did but they were refusing to take and distribute unlawful orders, not trying to, perhaps forcibly, go through their own in his security detail to drag their commander kicking and screaming from his bunker. They're different things.

Sure they'd be serving a new president and commander if it was eventually definitively ruled Trump was illegitimate and I'm sure the vast majority would but that's weeks into a mindbogglingly dangerous crisis if he chooses to make it so. They'd still have to physically get to him if he refused to walk.

jk

 Wild Cyclist 05 Oct 2020
In reply to Ridge:

> Fake news, he went to a luxury health spa, not a hospital 😉


That ^^^

It's just wall to wall Trump on the news ... I'm here and not going away.

 wintertree 05 Oct 2020
In reply to jkarran:

> They'd still have to physically get to him if he refused to walk.

Just get Twitter to delete his account.  Maybe change the launch codes first...

 jkarran 05 Oct 2020
In reply to wintertree:

I almost added switching of his comms and waiting for him to run out of burgers as a cheaper, cleaner option than to nuking him from space or digging him out

jk

In reply to Andy Hardy:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnJhta_hwCA&feature=emb_logo
> I'm not at all sure he has CV-19. He doesn't seem very ill in this clip, certainly not ill enough to require admission to hospital.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, etc. but f*ck me, I think Trump is trying to pull off the biggest PR stunt imaginable and he'll probably get away with it in spades.

In reply to FactorXXX:

> I'm not one for conspiracy theories, etc. but f*ck me, I think Trump is trying to pull off the biggest PR stunt imaginable and he'll probably get away with it in spades.

You've way overestimated him. If it was scripted, it would not look like this, it would be a heart-sinking, eye-rolling pageant of "look at how bigly strong I am beating the chiynahvirus". This just looks like Trump's caught covid, and so has everyone else in the office.

 aln 05 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> You've way overestimated him.

It's not him, it's the machine around him. 

In reply to Jon Stewart:

> You've way overestimated him. If it was scripted, it would not look like this, it would be a heart-sinking, eye-rolling pageant of "look at how bigly strong I am beating the chiynahvirus". This just looks like Trump's caught covid, and so has everyone else in the office.

Have you seen these:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-54415515
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-54405733

In reply to aln:

> It's not him, it's the machine around him. 

Machine or no machine, he doesn't put on convincing stunts that look believable to the world - he just makes outrageous, transparently false claims. There isn't a team of clever people controlling him, there's just his sycophants and a team who have to do their best try to mop up the trail of shit and destruction in his wake. Machiavelli he is not!

In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Yes. That's not what a stunt would look like.

Really?
Get's whisked away by helicopter with tales of woe about his health, etc. and with speculation that he might die.
Days later he's up and about like a spring chicken saying that he's had the virus, it isn't that bad and he'll be back in work in Monday to explain why it isn't really a problem to the USA as a whole and that the drugs supplied by the wonderful US medical services will save everyone if needs be.
Certainly sounds like good PR for a President pushing how healthy he is while at the same time dismissing Covid-19 as being a mere inconvenience. 

 wintertree 05 Oct 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

He’s speaking remarkably quickly and without many pauses whilst standing on his feet for someone who required supplemental oxygen and experimental drugs a day ago, aged 75.

Bullshit.  Look at the state Boris was in and he’s 20 years younger.

Its almost as if Trump carped the diem when there was an outbreak in his staff and put on a little song and dance act.

Post edited at 23:14
 aln 05 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Machine or no machine, he doesn't put on convincing stunts that look believable to the world - he just makes outrageous, transparently false claims. There isn't a team of clever people controlling him, there's just his sycophants and a team who have to do their best try to mop up the trail of shit and destruction in his wake. Machiavelli he is not!

And it doesn't matter. He'll get in again. I have a depressingly good record predicting this shit. Brexit, Johnson, Trump, I was correct each time. 

In reply to FactorXXX:

> Really?

Why the reports of being loaded up with drugs you only give to people on death's door, while the medics clearly try to avoid saying he's been on oxygen? Why has the whole of the Whitehouse caught it? Why did he go to hospital where he's called "insane" for riding around waving when he could have choreographed a pageant however he wanted at the Whitehouse?

The people he would be trying to reach with such a stunt don't demand the level of realism achieved. It would have looked absurd, ridiculous and implausible if it was a stunt - that's his style.

You're right though, that he could come out of it looking good. But I suspect that like Johmnson, he'll feel like shit for some time and his performance in the campaign will be quite pathetic. Look how bad he was when he didn't have covid or its aftermath!

Post edited at 23:21
 Lyndleme 05 Oct 2020
In reply to aln:

Maybe one of his trick to gain attention

In reply to aln:

> And it doesn't matter. He'll get in again. I have a depressingly good record predicting this shit. Brexit, Johnson, Trump, I was correct each time. 

You might be right - I really don't know. I do find it hard to see though how people who voted for Obama twice could then vote for Trump having seen what he's like. But I'm very bad at predicting these things!

In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Well, I see his experience, and his new 'understanding' of covid, allow him to come out and say that people shouldn't be afraid of covid, or allow it to rule their lives.

So, pretty much as predicted earlier in the thread.

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/off_belay/donalds_caught_the_hoax-725791?v=1#x9300584

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/off_belay/donalds_caught_the_hoax-725791?v=1#x9300590

Post edited at 23:30
AndrewSmith45 05 Oct 2020
In reply to Eric9Points:

> Of course that's also been his downfall. You can't bullshit a virus, it just does what it does.

How incredibly naive.

2
AndrewSmith45 05 Oct 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

> Really?

> Get's whisked away by helicopter with tales of woe about his health, etc. and with speculation that he might die.

> Days later he's up and about like a spring chicken saying that he's had the virus, it isn't that bad and he'll be back in work in Monday to explain why it isn't really a problem to the USA as a whole and that the drugs supplied by the wonderful US medical services will save everyone if needs be.

> Certainly sounds like good PR for a President pushing how healthy he is while at the same time dismissing Covid-19 as being a mere inconvenience. 


A couple of days after his tax returns got published.

 aln 05 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> I do find it hard to see though how people who voted for Obama twice could then vote for Trump

It's different people! And it doesn't matter. Trump got less votes than Clinton but still won.

AndrewSmith45 05 Oct 2020
In reply to aln:

> And it doesn't matter. He'll get in again. I have a depressingly good record predicting this shit. Brexit, Johnson, Trump, I was correct each time. 


If Trump is a clueless moron then god knows what that says about the rest of the US. I don't like him, I don't like his tactics, his politics, his twitter account or his Chinese trade war. But stupid? He's not stupid, he's rich, elitist and he only cares about the pursuit of power and fame (ahemahem....Boris). This dude goes on TV and says he started with a small loan, a million dollars (BS more like 60). Money means nothing to him, it's like air and water. He just wants to be famous.

 waitout 05 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

It's absolute pageantry, by far his biggest bout of vaudeville and drama yet. Reagan returning after his assassination attempt wasn't this big.

I have the TV on now and it's nauseating how the media has constructed this whole affair. We couldn't have the Olympics so we are getting this instead. All that driving about a day ago was simply to know how to put the cameras out. I understand his supporters being there to wave flags, the American's love a turn out, but the media lust is like that for the Beatles and totally disproportionate. It feels like a media test-run for the events to come.

 George Ormerod 06 Oct 2020
In reply to waitout:

This is the worst possible outcome:  His idiot base will believe the 'Covid is nothing to worry about*' bollocks and tens of thousands more people will end up dead in the long run.

* if you have daily testing and access to your own dedicated medical team willing to give you every treatment under the sun preemptively.  

In reply to waitout:

I daren't watch, but no doubt it's spectacular. 

> All that driving about a day ago was simply to know how to put the cameras out.

Yes, but I don't think that means he's not got covid. It's such a massive gamble, going to hospital in order to look strong...but maybe..? The timing's right; on the other hand, there's major outbreak in the Whitehouse and that really doesn't look good!

 waitout 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

As far as I saw there was nothing actually to watch, just a taped off empty garden with a helicopter in it and the world press trying to make it interesting. You've not missed a lot. Garden looks nice though, autumn and all.

Yes, he's got CV, and yes, despite being old, obese and having the diet of a policeman on stakeout (as does a lot of the US) he's unlikely to die. A lifetime of call girls, airline food, jet lag and corporate stress indicates he has a solid constitution.

He will have a posse of advisors around him engineering the event to optimize result, like every president, always. Creating a big entrance is normal for a guy with a background in WWF and beauty pagents. It's just that.

Imagine he were dying! That would be Ayatollah-level madness. A helicopter in a drizzly garden is about as low key as this could ever be.

 waitout 06 Oct 2020
In reply to George Ormerod:

I think that's where it's been at for months already. To be ghoulishly fair - tens of thousands more are going to die of it now regardless.

In reply to waitout:

Oh, so it seems that he's survived... Make America Grate Again. 

 Roadrunner6 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

My wife's an oncology fellow and has cancer patients on some of these steroids and they say they feel great, then 2-3 days later they wear off...

He's not out of the woods yet. I hope he survives but the 'not that bad' comment after being given a drug in short supply and a trial drug which less than 10 people in the US have had access to is sick.

 Roadrunner6 06 Oct 2020
In reply to wintertree:

I think in his latest video's he seems to take some deep breaths so I'm not sure. But as said 13-14 others now have it. Even people not involved with his campaign so it was certainly floating around the white house. 

In reply to Roadrunner6:

The last stuff he's been tweeting sounds like someone on a high from meds rather than someone feeling knackered after getting through the disease.  

 aln 06 Oct 2020
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

> The last stuff he's been tweeting sounds like someone on a high from meds

Just his usual shite then? 

In reply to The Wild Scallion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6_sOuwGbm8&

Wondering around the Whitehouse now with no mask on.

Fooking tool.

And I see a crease in Joe Bidens shirt is now a earpiece and wire conspiracy

😂😂😂😂

 Blanche DuBois 06 Oct 2020
In reply to AndrewSmith45:

> If Trump is a clueless moron then god knows what that says about the rest of the US.

Most of the US is against him, and the policies of the GOP.  Maybe look inwards before calling inhabitants of other countries morons.  What sort of majority did Boris get in with again?

> But stupid? He's not stupid

He is 

> he's rich

He's not

> Money means nothing to him

Now who's naiive?

In reply to Blanche DuBois:

I'm not sure whether to believe this, but apparently only 40% of Americans could cover an emergency expense of $1,000.

How does Trump get away with extolling the US economy when a significant majority of the population are less than a single paycheck away from financial catastrophe?

In reply to Roadrunner6:

> I think in his latest video's he seems to take some deep breaths so I'm not sure. But as said 13-14 others now have it. Even people not involved with his campaign so it was certainly floating around the white house. 

Comments from medics under this Twitter video of Trump's breathing are interesting.   

https://twitter.com/brenonade/status/1313256208363552769

In reply to Blanche DuBois:

> Most of the US is against him, and the policies of the GOP.  Maybe look inwards before calling inhabitants of other countries morons.  What sort of majority did Boris get in with again?

I've seen a lot of apologising for shit behaviour with respect to Trump voters. If you vote for a racist moron for president, you're culpable for that. It means you're stupid, or racist, or perhaps deeply selfish. None of these things are OK. If you voted Trump, from my perspective, you can f*ck off and die.

(The argument "telling people that they're thick, racist and selfish, and then telling them to f*ck off and die is a bad political strategy if you want them to vote for you" is perfectly valid. But I'm not asking anyone to vote for me, and I don't have an audience, let alone a US audience, so while it's valid it isn't relevant.)

You are absolutely right that people who voted Brexit and Tory when it's against their interests are morons. They were conned.

1
 Graeme G 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> If you voted Trump, from my perspective, you can f*ck off and die.

You don’t know enough voters. Many who think he’s an idiot, will still vote for him as he’s the Republican candidate. They’re not voting Trump, they’re just being forced to make a choice. 
Much as we were forced to make a choice in 2019. 

In reply to Graeme G:

> You don’t know enough voters. Many who think he’s an idiot, will still vote for him as he’s the Republican candidate. They’re not voting Trump, they’re just being forced to make a choice. 

> Much as we were forced to make a choice in 2019. 

Sounds like you're trying to excuse people for actions with devastating consequences for millions - or billions - of people. If the alternative was worse, and would have caused greater damage to humanity, then it would be a fair point, but that's not the case.

 jkarran 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

> You don’t know enough voters. Many who think he’s an idiot, will still vote for him as he’s the Republican candidate. They’re not voting Trump, they’re just being forced to make a choice. 

> Much as we were forced to make a choice in 2019. 

But it's not a binary choice they or we are/were presented with. It can feel like it but it isn't.

jk

Post edited at 16:41
 Graeme G 06 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Sounds like you're trying to excuse people for actions with devastating consequences for millions - or billions - of people.

“Excusing”? - no. Explaining. Don’t confuse my writing with my opinion of the man.

Post edited at 17:51
 Graeme G 06 Oct 2020
In reply to jkarran:

> But it's not a binary choice they or we are/were presented with. It can feel like it but it isn't.

> jk

Really? Can you please list the non-Con/Lab PMs we’ve had in the last 50 years? How many non-Dem/Rep President’s has the USA had in the same time frame?

1
 waitout 07 Oct 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

> You don’t know enough voters. Many who think he’s an idiot, will still vote for him as he’s the Republican candidate. They’re not voting Trump, they’re just being forced to make a choice. 

Very much this. Some Republicans are going Democrat this time round, but many wont as they see it as their party being eroded. They accept dickhead Trump as bad, but temporarily defecting Republicans as just as bad. They don't see the next four years being Democrat, they see the next eight years being Democrat with a pogrom of Republicans who sided Democrat and gutted the GOP irreparably. They believe the stuff that says Trump is an idiot but the slide to socialism is worse. 

For many the third option is to not vote at all, which has a long tradition there and why the US is now dissolving in it's own filth of a false democracy as a result.

 Roadrunner6 07 Oct 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

And 3rd party votes led to Trump

I don't get why voters who are dominated by the environmental issues voted green last time, because they knew they risked Trump and at least one, probably 2 (it ended up being 3) SCOTUS justices. I don't get how they thought a throw away vote to the greens was better than shoring up environmental legislation with another liberal judge.

I wished we had 3rd party options but in reality a third party vote is a vote for the other party (especially in swing states).

 john arran 07 Oct 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> And 3rd party votes led to Trump

> I don't get why voters who are dominated by the environmental issues voted green last time, because they knew they risked Trump and at least one, probably 2 (it ended up being 3) SCOTUS justices. I don't get how they thought a throw away vote to the greens was better than shoring up environmental legislation with another liberal judge.

> I wished we had 3rd party options but in reality a third party vote is a vote for the other party (especially in swing states).

I'm supposing they may have thought Clinton would win without their help, so bolstering the green lobby by weight of numbers. A bit like, though not nearly as bad as, the numskulls who decided to vote for Brexit simply to give Cameron a fright, not expecting it to actually win. Idiots, the lot of them, although the US idiots may still get off with only 4 years' damage along with a thorny Supreme Court problem; in the UK we'll almost certainly be paying a heavy price for decades.

 jkarran 07 Oct 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

As I said, it feels like it's not a choice so we tend to choose red or blue entrenching them, compounding the problem. We don't have to. We could: Not vote. Spoil the ballot. Vote for another candidate/party. Stand. Likewise in the US there are other parties and candidates on the ballot.

With our gerrymandered seats the vast majority of votes for red/blue are in any given year as pointless as a vote for green or yellow or purple, very few of us live in swing seats but votes that will probably change nothing aren't *entirely* pointless (they are mostly pointless, we barely have a functioning democracy IMO), they slowly shift the political landscape, the perception of what is possible.

jk.

 Graeme G 07 Oct 2020
In reply to jkarran:

We’ll agree to disagree on this. But.....

> As I said, it feels like it's not a choice so we tend to choose red or blue entrenching them, compounding the problem. We don't have to. We could: Not vote. Spoil the ballot. Vote for another candidate/party. Stand. Likewise in the US there are other parties and candidates on the ballot.

So my choice is to ‘not’ choose or choose something which I know will have no effect. Not really a choice.

> With our gerrymandered seats the vast majority of votes for red/blue are in any given year as pointless as a vote for green or yellow or purple, very few of us live in swing seats but votes that will probably change nothing aren't *entirely* pointless (they are mostly pointless, we barely have a functioning democracy IMO), they slowly shift the political landscape

the perception of what is possible.

Which is evidenced in the last 50 years of the shift in political landscape from entrenched left and right to entrenched left and right. Sorry but I just don’t agree with you here.

Both the US and U.K. systems are designed to ensure we are forced to make a binary choice. Both sides of the argument aren’t interested in representation, only power, so the status quo continues. 

1.6 million votes for SNP - 56 seats

4 million for LibDem - 11 seats.

Neither Labour nor Conservative shouted “This isn’t right, we need to change the system”.

Post edited at 10:37
In reply to Graeme G:

The UK  fptp System is Westminster elections only. Wales ,Scotland and NI have forms of PR for elections to the devolved governments and  have had for the last 20 years. So we do have PR in the UK. Except in England of course.. As an SNP member of40 years standing  I am a supporter of PR for all countries of the UK

 jkarran 07 Oct 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> I don't get why voters who are dominated by the environmental issues voted green last time, because they knew they risked Trump and at least one, probably 2 (it ended up being 3) SCOTUS justices. I don't get how they thought a throw away vote to the greens was better than shoring up environmental legislation with another liberal judge.

The only way to make a 2 party system more plural in the long run is to 'waste' votes changing the landscape, first by sending a clear signal the parties attracting those votes represent issues and groups which need to be heard. Ultimately by creating the situation where that wasted vote might not be, it might just return a candidate. The US is far from that position, much work needed. Some UK constituencies are much closer. It depends whether you're thinking on an 8 or 80 year timeline whether you consider 3rd party votes wasted or counterproductive.

That said there are times where one of the two candidates in with a chance is notably worse than the other from the perspective of a third party voter in which case it's worth considering holding your nose and voting for the less bad version of the same old same old. I hate having to make that choice.

jk

 Graeme G 07 Oct 2020
In reply to The Watch of Barrisdale:

> The UK  fptp System is Westminster elections only. Wales ,Scotland and NI have forms of PR for elections to the devolved governments and  have had for the last 20 years. So we do have PR in the UK. Except in England of course.. As an SNP member of40 years standing  I am a supporter of PR for all countries of the UK

I live in Scotland. Should have made it clearer I was referring to Westminster 😀

In reply to The Wild Scallion:

https://news.sky.com/story/trump-coronavirus-more-white-house-aides-test-positive-for-covid-19-as-biden-calls-for-second-debate-to-be-cancelled-12097907

"Another two of Donald Trump's top aides have tested positive for coronavirus, joining a growing list of the US president's inner circle who have contracted COVID-19.

They are White House adviser Stephen Miller, who revealed his diagnosis in a statement on Tuesday, and assistant press secretary Jalen Drummond, whose positive coronavirus test was reported by NBC News."

In reply to Graeme G:

> 1.6 million votes for SNP - 56 seats

And every time one of them stands up to speak all the English MPs walk out and if the TV was covering what the last guy said they cut back to the studio.

And we are still governed by the Tories who have not won a national election in Scotland since about 1950.

It doesn't matter a flying f*ck how many SNP MPs we elect.  Even when Westminster was close to a hung parliament Labour refused to do any deals with the SNP.  They'd rather have the Tories and preserve the Westminster duopoly.

> 4 million for LibDem - 11 seats.

And they don't deserve even that amount.  Totally shameless bunch of liars.  Their whole thing was fighting to stay in the EU and their new guy says they won't try and reverse Brexit.  Just like with the student loan lie except this time they didn't even get paid off.

> Neither Labour nor Conservative shouted “This isn’t right, we need to change the system”.

Because the duopoly suits both of them.  Their politicians move to London and make their home there benefitting from London house price inflation.  Their kids go to school there, their partner goes and works for a bank or government.   They know the BBC and newspaper journalists and their opposite numbers in the Tories because they went to Uni at Oxford or Cambridge together.

6
 Graeme G 07 Oct 2020
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

> Because the duopoly suits both of them.

On this, we are in complete agreement.

In reply to The Wild Scallion:

> They are White House adviser Stephen Miller, who revealed his diagnosis in a statement on Tuesday, 

Someone else for whom I'm struggling to summon the appropriate level of compassion. 

 Roadrunner6 07 Oct 2020
In reply to Dave Garnett:

> Someone else for whom I'm struggling to summon the appropriate level of compassion. 

Totally. I don't wish harm on Trump, I hope he survives. Miller is an evil piece of work.

In reply to The Wild Scallion:

The things he's been doing for the last few days are pretty mental.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/07/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus/index.html

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/07/politics/trump-oval-office-coronavirus/index.html

If he was a normal person, my conclusion would be its the side effects of the dexamethasone which apparently can cause aggression, mood swings and a bunch of other stuff.  But how do you tell with Trump whether it's the meds.

 freeflyer 07 Oct 2020
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

>  But how do you tell with Trump ...

A good question. I thought that labelling Trump using the American psychiatrists' DSM system would be a plan.

Looking at DSM IV, he comes in with a resounding nine out of nine for Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The latest DSM V has a lot more waffle, but still looks as if it works.

https://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/courses/materials/Narc.Pers.DSM.pdf

It's simple: in order to be the bigliest, he has to win the election, and everything else is secondary, including truth and the fate of his fellow Americans. He really really believes that.

This is who they voted for, and seem likely to vote for again

In reply to Jon Stewart:

> You've way overestimated him. If it was scripted, it would not look like this, it would be a heart-sinking, eye-rolling pageant of "look at how bigly strong I am beating the chiynahvirus". This just looks like Trump's caught covid, and so has everyone else in the office.

Care to re-examine what has happened in the last few days and perhaps think that he never actually had the virus and it is all indeed an orchestrated PR stunt? 

In reply to Dave Garnett:

> Someone else for whom I'm struggling to summon the appropriate level of compassion. 

Oh, I'm not. When Johnson was ill a US business acquaintance emailed me to assure me he was praying for Johnson. I managed to refrain from replying that I was praying  for the virus, but this time I think I might even give prayer a go.

jcm

1
In reply to Graeme G:

> “Excusing”? - no. Explaining. Don’t confuse my writing with my opinion of the man.

OK. But I'm saying I condemn the people who voted for him, and you've given me no reason not to. 

In reply to FactorXXX:

> Care to re-examine what has happened in the last few days and perhaps think that he never actually had the virus and it is all indeed an orchestrated PR stunt? 

I'm still here:

> I don't think that means he's not got covid. It's such a massive gamble, going to hospital in order to look strong...but maybe..? The timing's right; on the other hand, there's major outbreak in the Whitehouse and that really doesn't look good!

But I haven't seen a whole lot more on it since then.

In reply to FactorXXX:

For a man who is feeling better than he has for 20 years, he was sure sucking the air hard and looking pained doing it yesterday on his balcony.

 Graeme G 08 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> OK. But I'm saying I condemn the people who voted for him, and you've given me no reason not to. 

I share you’re condemnation. I certainly wouldn’t vote for him, but I understand at least some of those who did, and will again. 

 Ridge 08 Oct 2020
In reply to The New NickB:

> For a man who is feeling better than he has for 20 years, he was sure sucking the air hard and looking pained doing it yesterday on his balcony.

Lots of fidgeting going on so probably in pain and as you say, breathing using his chest muscles not just his diaphragm. I do hope it's nothing trivial.

In reply to The Wild Scallion:

https://news.sky.com/story/trump-cleared-to-return-to-public-engagements-tomorrow-and-says-hell-probably-hold-a-rally-12099650

The fu_king goon wants to hold a rally tomorrow now .

And he's ranting an raving about wanting his enemies locked up ?

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/07/trump-demands-barr-arrest-foes-427389

FFS it's so so wrong.

 fred99 09 Oct 2020
In reply to The Wild Scallion:

> The fu_king goon wants to hold a rally tomorrow now .

Look on the bright side - think of all those MAGA morons he can get infected and either put in hospital or the morgue. Better still if they haven't voted yet.

1
In reply to fred99:

Interesting that the Beeb reports that when he last appeared on Fox yesterday he was coughing:

"The president was also heard clearing his throat and coughing during the interview. At one point, he appeared to mute his mic after needing to clear his throat."

Could he and his quack doctor be stupid enough to wheel him out even though he still has symptoms?

 Roadrunner6 09 Oct 2020
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

He's not had a negative test yet. Just a piece of paper saying symptom free. We know that doesn't mean he's negative. It is incredible.

The debate was cancelled because no crew wanted to work it. They were all pissed off they were exposed to him at the first debate because it's looking like they knew he'd been exposed then, if not that he was positive. And his family refused to wear masks

Post edited at 17:52
1
 Yanis Nayu 09 Oct 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

He’s a f*cking moron. The fact that he was elected in the first place defies belief; that he’s even in with a shout of being re-elected really reflects badly on the American people. 

2
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

The relief of those interviewed in the aftermath of the debate between Pence and Harris is palpable. 'At last - there's grown ups in the room.' (Though in the case of Pence, this is not an unalloyed good. Strange how his god couldn't sort out a fly on his otherwise impeccable snowytop.)

1
 Roadrunner6 09 Oct 2020
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

The UK has Bojo.. The fact is play to people's fears and many others will just follow because they are the right side of politics. Simple populism which has happened globally.

And it was also a quirk of the electoral system. Bojo wasn't. More people actually wanted Clinton (even though she was a historically unpopular candidate)

1
 Blanche DuBois 10 Oct 2020
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

> He’s a f*cking moron. The fact that he was elected in the first place defies belief; that he’s even in with a shout of being re-elected really reflects badly on the American people. 

Pot, kettle, black....

Brexit, Cameron, May, Boris, C19, Windrush...  Need I go on?

1
In reply to Blanche DuBois:

> Brexit, Cameron, May, Boris, C19, Windrush...  Need I go on?

All bad, granted, but trump is orders of magnitude worse. 

2
 Blanche DuBois 10 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> All bad, granted, but trump is orders of magnitude worse. 

I was replying to the suggestion that Americans are all dimwits, but feel free to carrying on attacking that strawman....

6
In reply to Blanche DuBois:

> I was replying to the suggestion that Americans are all dimwits, but feel free to carrying on attacking that strawman....

All the Americans who voted for trump are either thick, racist or venal. Is that better? 

1
 deepsoup 10 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> All bad, granted, but trump is orders of magnitude worse. 

No, B DB is right.  We need to stop sneering at the yanks for their stupidity, we're no better.  We elected the tories with a landslide majority after Boris Johnson hid in a fridge on the campaign trail to avoid answering tricky questions from Piers f*cking Morgan!

1
In reply to deepsoup:

> No, B DB is right.  We need to stop sneering at the yanks for their stupidity, we're no better.  We elected the tories with a landslide majority after Boris Johnson hid in a fridge on the campaign trail to avoid answering tricky questions from Piers f*cking Morgan!

Yes, we're stupid too, but to pretend that voting tory is as morally bankrupt as voting trump is ridiculous. Whoever you voted for, you're culpable. 

2
In reply to deepsoup:

It's not just Johnson either. We managed to vote for an entire cabinet who are either moronic - Hancock - wicked - Shapps - or both - Patel.

1
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Yes, we're stupid too, but to pretend that voting tory is as morally bankrupt as voting trump is ridiculous. Whoever you voted for, you're culpable. 

Voting Tory is just as bad as voting Trump.  It's a manifestation of the same kind of arseholery in a country with fewer guns.

The Brexit stuff, in particular the way the status of EU citizens who have lived in the country for decades was unilaterally changed, is as bad as anything Trump has done.  Stealing my EU passport was worse than anything Trump has done.   Refusing the second Indyref and stealing powers from Scottish Parliament was worse than anything Trump has done, it is a purely colonial action by a government elected by England.

We can see Trump doing some pretty desperate things now.  My guess is partly because he thinks he will be jailed and bankrupted by the wave of legal action and enquiries as soon as he can't use the power of government to shield himself.   The Brexiteer Tories are in the exact same position.  They have done some dubious things during Brexit referendum and with contracts handed to their mates and have got away with it using the influence and power of government.  Once they aren't in government they will be very vulnerable.

2
 Blanche DuBois 10 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> All the Americans who voted for trump are either thick, racist or venal. Is that better? 

The comment I was being critical of was: ".... reflects badly on the American people." Note the absence of the words "who voted for Trump" in the above.  I can't help but think you don't understand the concept of "strawman" in critical thinking.  Maybe the words you used "thick, racist or venal" could be more usefully aimed at yourself?  Still, no matter what I say, let's face it, you're going continue in your childish willy waving, so I'm out.  Continue to bask in all the smug self satisfaction of your British superiority.  Best not to look too closely at what the rest of Europe thinks of you though, you might get an unpleasant surprise.

4
In reply to Blanche DuBois:

I think most of us are pretty clear as to what we must look like to the rest of Europe.

In reply to Blanche DuBois:

> The comment I was being critical of was: ".... reflects badly on the American people." Note the absence of the words "who voted for Trump" in the above.  I can't help but think you don't understand the concept of "strawman" in critical thinking.  Maybe the words you used "thick, racist or venal" could be more usefully aimed at yourself?  Still, no matter what I say, let's face it, you're going continue in your childish willy waving, so I'm out.  Continue to bask in all the smug self satisfaction of your British superiority.  Best not to look too closely at what the rest of Europe thinks of you though, you might get an unpleasant surprise.

I can't work out what your problem is. I'm deeply ashamed of our government, and that reflects badly on the people of this country. Just not half as bad as how badly trump's election reflects on the US, as trump is so spectacularly thick, racist and venal, even compared to Johnson. That's an achievement you shouldn't underestimate. 

 Yanis Nayu 10 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> I can't work out what your problem is. I'm deeply ashamed of our government, and that reflects badly on the people of this country. Just not half as bad as how badly trump's election reflects on the US, as trump is so spectacularly thick, racist and venal, even compared to Johnson. That's an achievement you shouldn't underestimate. 

This. 

 deepsoup 10 Oct 2020
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

> I think most of us are pretty clear as to what we must look like to the rest of Europe.

If only! 

Depends what you mean by "us" of course, but if it means "British people" I think we're mostly oblivious.

In reply to The Wild Scallion:

Just in case I'm not the last person on the internet to see this...


1
 Roadrunner6 11 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Yes, we're stupid too, but to pretend that voting tory is as morally bankrupt as voting trump is ridiculous. Whoever you voted for, you're culpable. 

Brexit is longer term.. I think many republican's just held their nose and voted for Trump, remember there was at least one judge up for replacement. We are probably ending up with 3. 

Trump has said a lot of bad shit, and done bad stuff, but policy wise we can move on quicker and reverse much of what he did. Brexit is going to last for generations. It's pretty depressing as a Brit how we made such a backwards step.

 Roadrunner6 11 Oct 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

I was thinking about Trump v brexit today. 

Tbf to the American public they have rejected Trump at almost every election since, even in Alabama. And 3 weeks out it's looking as one sided as an election has been against an incumbent in generations.

In contrast the UK went back to the poll booths and spectacularly backed bojo and the tories and brexit.

Post edited at 18:40
 rubble 11 Oct 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

"In contrast the UK went back to the poll booths and spectacularly backed bojo and the tories and brexit."

Sorry, no ... England went back to the poll booths and spectacularly backed bojo and the tories and brexit."

1
In reply to rubble:

> Sorry, no ... England went back to the poll booths and spectacularly backed bojo and the tories and brexit."

Sorry, no... With no credible opposition England went to the poll booths and backed the tories. Labour are every bit as culpable for the mess we are in as the tories. 

3
 rubble 11 Oct 2020
In reply to Dax H:

> Sorry, no... With no credible opposition England went to the poll booths and backed the tories. Labour are every bit as culpable for the mess we are in as the tories. 

True, but you missed out the bit about brexit (although labour didn't have much of a clue here either) 

Post edited at 21:59
 Roadrunner6 11 Oct 2020
In reply to rubble:

> "In contrast the UK went back to the poll booths and spectacularly backed bojo and the tories and brexit."

> Sorry, no ... England went back to the poll booths and spectacularly backed bojo and the tories and brexit."

Haha good point.

 Roadrunner6 11 Oct 2020
In reply to Dax H:

That's really not true. They handed the tories a massive majority. There were many options but went for an absolute incompetent shower. Labour may have been poor, but we knew the Tories were. We KNEW they lied, we KNEW Boris was a liar, and yet the backed him and handed him such a strong majority he could basically go for any Brexit he wanted.

I'm genuinely amazed that he won so comfortably. And yes Labour were awful, but we knew the Tories had no idea what to do next.

Post edited at 22:29
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> Trump has said a lot of bad shit, and done bad stuff, but policy wise we can move on quicker and reverse much of what he did. Brexit is going to last for generations. #

I think you can fairly argue that Brexit and the Tories will do more damage to the UK than Trump will do to the US. Actually ending the UK is pretty spectacular for a start.

But that's not quite the same question: I think voting Trump is more morally bankrupt than voting Brexit/Tory. Stupidity and believing lies can explain the latter, voting for an overtly racist, misogynist, man-baby-pig who's never read a book is morally repugnant, and it doesn't matter how stupid or gullible you are, there's no excuse as it was all in the brochure. 

 Roadrunner6 11 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

True, but many pro-lifers/2nd amendment voters will vote for the SCOTUS option.

I can't think of many single issue voters in the UK other than independence but in the US there are many single issue voters and they'll look past the rest.

They easily set aside the moral argument because democrats are pro-abortion (which we all know is just not true, nobody is pro-abortion..), or want the government to take our guns and imprison us all.. although that has NEVER happened.

 Roadrunner6 12 Oct 2020
In reply to Jon Stewart:

It is a tough one. I've friends I know are good people who support him, some are super intelligent too. One guy is a top MD, highly religious, UPenn (Ivy league school) medical fellow. And I really struggle with it as I've spent a lot of time with him and enjoy his company. But go into politics and he's a strong conservative and just will never vote for a dem.

I avoid arguments with him as we'll never change each others views. 

There are many who are the Turkey's voting for Christmas, that we saw with Brexit. They somehow have picked their savior as a rich guy with no connection to them but believe he's one of them. 


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