UKH

Hello, this is my first time posting, and I'm wondering if I could get some advice on my first trad rack. I've got a list of gear I'm wanting and have been looking out for deals. I've got experienced friends who I go out with, and I am confident at belaying and seconding. However, I'm looking to build my own rack, so we don't have to keep relying on one friend to have all the necessary gear. I'd appreciate your advice on if I should change anything in my list and the amounts I should buy. Thanks so much!

Here's my list so far (not including harness, belay device and helmet as I have those):

• 4-6 locking carabiners
• 20-30 non locking (wiregate) carabiners
• Nut key
• 240cm x 25mm sling
• 8-10 60cm slings
• 2-4 120cm slings
• Set of nuts sizes 1-11
• Cam set sizes 2, 3, 4
• 9.8mm 60m single rope

Borrow stuff to work out what you like before buying. If you climb regularly with someone get what they don't have so that between you you build a full rack faster.

You seem to have lots of 60cm slings, what do you plan to use these for? Same goes for the loads of wiregates.

I'd always advise people to get a small pink tricam and microwires - the tricam goes wherever your thumb will, and the wire weigh naff-all but will get you out the poo if the rock you climb on has thin cracks.

Personally I'd add a set of hexes/torque nuts. 

Rather than all the krabs and 60cm slings- alpine draws ? - I'd get 2 bulk packs of quick draws (12 total)   then a multipack of krabs and 3 or 4 60cm slings...  you can use the krabs as you see fit, and you'll have a bunch of draws to go sport climbing. 

Rest looks OK 

Thanks so much for the quick response!

I'll try giving my friends gear a good go before buying anything. I was thinking the slings would be better for making alpine draws instead of buying quick draws, plus I read they come in handy in general.

I had a quick look at microwires the other day, and they seemed really useful. Again, thanks for the advice, I'll take it all into account!

Live in Yorkshire, near Sheffield, so mainly Stannage and around the Peak District. Yeah I was going for the alpine draws, thanks so much! I'll cut down on the slings and take a look at the quick draws.

Some alpine draws are handy for long routes or very wandery routes. Not really the sort of thing you ever need more than one or two of on gritstone. I didn't own any till I'd been climbing for years and still only have two. Ditch that idea and get about 10 x 15cm quickdraws, preferably on wiregate krabs and the standard width slings (as opposed to the thick slings you get on sport specific quickdraws).

I'd say you've overegged the locking karabiners. I carry a couple of wiregates for clipping to nuts at a belay plus up to two locking krabs plus a locking krab on my belay device.

Cam sizes on Yorkshire Grit, I'd go for whatever brand of cams you fancy (Dragons probably) in whatever size is equivalent to Friends 1-3. Then get a Friend 3.5 equivalent and go from there. I generally never carry more than one set of nuts on grit but will often double up on cams, that's where you'll find yourself under-geared first.

I very much doubt you'll need microwires until you go mountain cragging or on Yorks lime, and even then probably not until you get up to low Es.

You don't need that many lockers for grit. I usually carry 3. 9 times out of 10 you'll be slinging a big boulder or thread at the top. On the off-chance you need to put in a multi-piece anchor, you will definitely have spare snap-gates to oppose. Just make sure that you carry one which will take some clove hitches on (eg. Petzl Attache, DMM Phantom HMS, etc.).  

I would add a set of offsets like the DMM 7-11 to your list. 

You also don't need many quickdraws for grit; I'll carry 6-8 or less. I'd consider having some normal QDs (~18cm) and not all alpine draws; It's quite rare that they're necessary on grit and I'll never carry more than 2. If it's one of those awkward wandery ones where it's obvious you'll need more, I'll chuck a couple of extra slings over my shoulder. Alpines can get a bit tangly if your harness is full of them.

I'll say that the approach to a 20m grit edge is a different game entirely to something on rhyolite or limestone. For the latter I'd be carrying about 14 QDs (4-6 of which are alpine draws), a full set of cams, a double set of nuts up to 7 or 8, some micros, a few 120cm slings, and half ropes.       

Unless you intend to start "rigging" you don't need so many screwgates.  I carry 3 only and that includes the one for my belay device. Micro wires are mainly needed when you get onto more difficult grades otherwise they can wait.  As others have said consider a mixture of alpine draws and quick draws but don't be tempted to get them too short 18cms work well.

Al

Thanks so much for the detailed advice! I'll take a look at getting some quick draws instead of alpine draws. I'll take the cam advice into consideration when I can finally face the impact it's going to have on my wallet!

Thanks again, you were a massive help.

Thank you for the detailed advice. Like I've said above to the others, I really appreciate how much explanation you've given. I'll edit what I've got on the list because this is all excellent advice!

Thanks so much, Al! I'll look into the 18 cm QDs and cut down on the screwgates!

Kozma, I agree with most of the advice above, expecially about getting quickdraws rather than slings and wiregates. I have some alpine draws but, on grit, won't normally carry them unless there is a good reason.  

One point, is your 240 x 25 sling, presumably nylon.  That will be very bulky, I strongly suggest you go for narrower Dyneema 11mm or maybe thinner.  The sames goes for your other slings as well. 

 

Ah thanks so much, I'll take a look at the thinner slings!

A 240cm sling is pretty rarely necessary. I mostly only carry a couple of 120cms. If it's so big you need a 240cm, you can just run around it with the rope. I used to carry one and can only think of 2 times where I used it on-route; one had a mahoosize flake on it which also took cams and the other was a giant thread (both limestone). 

Haha fair enough! Yeah I think I'll drop down to the 120s.

That's patently rubbish, gear is gear no matter how hard the route is.

There's some merit in that school of thought. If the climbing is easier, there will be bigger features that will offer more in the way of protection. If there aren't the features to protect with conventional gear, there's a good chance that the climbing will be pretty hard. If there is only micro-gear on a route, the chances are it will have a pretty hefty grade, even if the climbing is relatively straight-forward. Usually gear and holds go hand-in-hand up until the higher grades. 

There are exceptions obviously, such as that VS 4a arete on slate. 

You have your opinion I have mine but why the unfriendly, dismissive and challenging tone?

I wouldn't buy a rack unless you're planning to learn to lead. Then, for short grit routes up to VS, I think you could do worse than:

1 set of 11 DMM Wallnuts
3 medium cams (e.g. Black Diamond 0.75, 1, 2; or DMM green, red and yellow) with carabiners to rack them
8 quickdraws
1 x 10mm 60cm sling
1 x 10mm 120cm sling
9.5mm - 10mm 50m single rope
1 DMM Boa and 2 locking carabiners
Guidebook!

As you climb more on grit, you'll want more cams. If you go do mountain routes, you'll want more wires and slings. But, that'll get you started. Hexes and offsets are optional; anyone who mentions anything else (tricams, micronuts...) is talking nonsense.

I'm planning to get into leading soon, that's why I'm wanting my own rack. Thanks so much for the list, that looks great!

I’ve done a video about this, if it’s of any interest

youtube.com/watch?v=PFGbK7ElvMc&

These thin slings are very handy for threads and over marginal spikes  - affordable

https://www.inglesport.com/product/beal-6mm-dyneema-sewn-slings-60cm/

I carry 1 spare screw gate for climbing on grit, that's to hitch the belay to my harness. It is safest of course to use screw gates on your belay gear but on grit edges you're 99% of the time within sight and touching distance of it so I make do with quick draws or the wire gates that I use on my cams anyway. 

My rack, as a purely grit climber, consists of..

• 3 slings of varying lengths on screw gates
• nut key
• belay plate on screw gate
• an unknown number of assorted nuts on a snap gate
• 3 micro cams on wire gates
• 9 cams on wire gates
• 5 quick draws of varying length
• 3 alpine draws 
• 1 spare screw gate (as mentioned above)
• A pair of 30m halves compliment.

It's quite frequent that I'll leave behind cams I definitely won't need, and usually only take 3 or 4 quick draws, sometimes fewer! 

It is a lightweight rack compared to some I see rocking up on the grit edges, but I've never found myself wanting mid-route, and usually arrive at the crag a bit fresher!  

I've done the same recently, if you've done a bit of seconding you'll have an idea of what gear is suitable for your local crags. I'd add a couple of prusiks, and I've done a few routes where 240cm slings were handy for anchors. It's useful to have extra screwgates for multi pitch anchors where the second isn't leading through (you'll have to leave all the gear at the current anchor and have enough to build the next one).

There are usually deals on quickdraws so they can work out cheaper than buying 2 carabiners, long draws are good if you're using one rope (to reduce drag).

Dirty *******.

When I started out with more experienced partners, my first purchase was a pair of cams to complement what they had.  After, slings, wires and quick draws.

That looks a fairly reasonable list. I would make the following adjustments:

Less screw gates, maybe 3, max 4.

Go for maybe 10 wire gates(5 silver, 5 a different colour) and 5 x 60cm slings, then also get 5 medium length quick draws(20cms ish) and 2 short quick draws.

You will also need some snap gates for racking your gear on.

Cams I would go for a set of sizes 1,2,3.

Once you have progressed a bit and decide you want to add to the rack I would start adding some more cams, 0.5, 0.3, 4. Next on the list would be a set of micros, then a second set of mid size wires, 1 to 6 or 2 to 7.

I support the change to a 10mm 50m rope.

60m is pointless for such short routes.  These ropes are most useful for LONG pitches in the mountains where there might be no convenient belay for 10 or 20m. Buy a 50 and enjoy the benefits of less weight and less belay faff.

The other main use for 10mm 60m rope is for abseil access to sea cliffs.  You might want some experienced friends when you delve into that (more serious) arena.

I would stick with the  60m which is more versatile and would be useful for sport climbing and venturing onto bigger routes. If it’s rated as a single or half rope even better, could be one half of a set of halves.

However for just grit edges then a 10mm 50m would be ideal I agree.

(tricams, micronuts...) is talking nonsense.

I've seen one tri-cam being placed on a very esoteric route in fife and a wall of them in a gear shop in the dolomites. Never been tempted.

I've think they're cracking and have lobbed quite a few times onto one, sitting pretty in a pocket too narrow for a cam. But, they're fiddly and I think someone learning to lead has enough to think about, without trying to work out how to place and remove tricams - which are only really needed very rarely.

I also think micronuts can be useful on some low grade routes, and have certainly used them a lot on Lakes E1s, but the idea of giving them to someone still learning to judge conventional nut placements gives me the heebie jeebies. They're not gear for newbies, because the tolerances between a good placement and a useless placement are so small and because when you're new you need to get your eye in for the good gear, not start placing micro gear as though that's "normal" (three foot from a bomber no.7).

^^ This is the reason for the pink one.  Once you get to bigger holes the chances of a cam fitting are much higher.

That is an excellent reason for novices to not use them which I'd never thought about.

you were equally dismissive of lower grade climbers' need for protection.

The exception is slabs. Where I live there are plenty of slab routes <E1 with no gear bigger than a size 1 nut in 100ft of climbing. Without micros you'd be looking at VS4a or E14c grades instead of S4a or VS4c. There are steeper routes with big flat holds and rounded bosses that won't take slings, yet the cracks are also thin.

Rubbish!

I'd argue that a 30m S 4a that only takes micros is not correctly graded. 

It's a common question for people on courses so I've written about it here: https://www.straightupadventures.co.uk/trad-rack

Your rack doesn't sound too far off, perhaps a few too many 60cm slings - I only carry 4 as alpine draws. Depending on which brand cams you are buying then 2/3/4 might be quite large. If I could only have three friends I would choose green/red/gold (thats Black Diamond sizes 0.75/1/2 or DMM 2/3/4 as you suggest).

Some other observations: a 25mm 240cm sling will be super bulky, I would get an 8mm dyneema one so it takes up less harness space. If you save some money buying fewer 60cm slings you could double up on some medium sized wires which would be more useful. 

As others said don't worry about micro wires until you need them, they are less useful on rock like grit as they can just pull out in a puff of grit, unlike many slate riutes... where they would come in really handy

Again to repeat others' concerns, you probably don't need 30 wiregates unless you are planning to chain them up and use instead of rope  

Why so many slings?

Lastly, you don't mention quickdraws

May I suggest:

nuts 1-11  (personally I have wild country classic rocks because that's how I started some years ago, but if I started from scratch I'd consider DMM Wallnut)

Cams 1, 2, 3  (again I have Wild country for historical reasons but would go for DMM Dragon if I started from scratch)

Quickdraws * 6   medium length (like 18cm or so, if you ever need more then you can add short ones or alpine draws or whatever)

1 * 10m of static rope (rigging at top), ideal for top roping etc

1 * 240 sling

1* rope general purpose like Mammut Crag Classic 10.2 

Personally I'd spend more on getting a good handling rope and less on the other kit

You can make do with less than you think especially at first, avoid falling into the trap of "all the gear no idea", it's you that climbs stuff not fancy gear. So get the minimal set of kit and add to it as you decide what you want

 If your friends are experienced you could ask them, instead of posting in front of random internet weirdos like me (although that's less fun for me)

Oh... sadly I don't get commission, but if you have to shop online, rather than a local climbing shop, you should definitely take a look at Dicks  https://www.dicksclimbing.com/  I've found them to be very good

very good idea, and a rope protector (make do or bought)

Personally, I'd get a bit more than 10m although that will be very location dependent

Thanks so much for the detailed advice, it's been really helpful!

Thanks to everyone who's replied, these comments have been really insightful and I feel like I can definitely adjust the rack and take some more time to figure out what I need more of by climbing!

Might be worth not buying everything all in go, have a minimum and then see how things handle, rather than with hindsight wishing you had bought something different.

For grit some people buy a long eg 70m half rope and cut it in half.  Not much use in the mountains however so it depends if you will venturing further afield.

DMM make good kit. Micros are handy but expensive so not essential at first. The really small wires eg half sized rocks and wall nuts can be weak- check the kN rating. I wouldn't bother with anything below 4kN personally and would prefer to have something 7kN and above. A good shop will be happy to take time to help you. It's better to pay more for advice than take a punt online imo.

Enjoy.