UKH

It appears that the local mayor in Chamonix, a controversial figure at best is at it again. The guide Christoph Profit removed some safety stakes from the mountain and the mayor has seen fit to prosecute Profit for what he has done. The mayors other actions include banning climbers from sleeping on the summit of Mt Blanc, and fining a Latvian climber for carrying a flag to the summit. The full story is here...

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/a-legendary-alpini...

I'm all for protecting the environment and making climbing a safer sport, but surely this kind on intrusion into the sport is petty and ill-thought.

It isn’t the mayor of Chamonix it’s the mayor of Saint Gervais. He’s been puddled for years

Profit removed the stakes last season. There doesn’t seem to be much new here.  
 

As for “safer sport”, climbing Mont Blanc or anywhere else outdoors in the alps or uk (where I have climbed and skied for the last 37 years) never struck me as a sport. 
 

Eh? Climbing not a sport? What is it then?

Hobby, activity, pastime, leisure, freedom, challenge.... some of it is sport but not for most participants

I suppose, mountaineering via the normal routes is not anymore a sport the way Hemingway defined it. Still dangerous though, until a certain mayor puts up a lift to the summit. 

It will be bullfighting next that they target!

An element of competition is intrinsic to my understanding of a sport. I have always regarded climbing as pursued by the vast majority (outside the very limited world of Olympic and other competition) as an activity. Dangerous, adventurous, life changing etc. But not a sport.

Especially plodding up Mont Blanc

Same with recreational and adventurous skiing.

Others may differ. Fair enough.

I have long held the view that any activity carried out on a prepared ground ie football, tennis, golf etc and has a competitive element is a game. (It's called the Olympic "Games" after all ). And how snooker and darts can be considered to be sports is beyond me.

A sport is an activity that doesn't require competition, and is carried out in a natural environment ie climbing, caving, skiing, hang gliding, fishing, even hunting (which I don't like!) etc. is a sport. One can go out and have great days "sport" on your own.

Unfortunately I can't find anyone who agrees with me!

Sorry for leading this thread off topic.

Pointlessly dangerous pastime 

"safe"???

Many years ago, having crossed the Grand Couloir when it was quiet cold early morning (Dr Jekyll), then looking back seen it rapidly change to raging death (Mr Hyde) as the sun warmed it, I'm not sure if I'd call the ordinary route (well.. the most popular voie normale) "safe"

But I would call it sport, as much as many other outdoor activities

This makes sense to me, seems Hemingway had it the wrong way around. 

Dodgeball is definitely a sport.

Sport (Oxford definition) - an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

The bit in bold I think we can all agree applies to climbing.

The rest is the grey area.

If you're going for a hike, in which the length, duration and destination is flexible and you;re not pushing yourself, there's no competition, therefore not a sport. It;s really just a walk.

But, if your aim is to climb a peak for example, you've challenged yourself to doing it, then you are affectively competing against yourself, so I would call this a sport.

Maybe this is why "sport climbing" is called thus: it's on a "prepared ground"!

I’ve taken up the sport of pavement walking.

The Olympic Games consists of events, rather than games. The word Games seems more like a generic term to describe the whole thing.

Likewise, many events at the Winter Olympic Games would not individually described as as a game. 

You must be baffled by terms like SkySports, TalkSport and, the one I remember growing up in Scotland, Sportscene. And, I guess, the term professional sportsman ought to be replaced by professional gamesman?

That's actually quite a dangerous competitive sport because it now has to compete with the sport of pavement cycling.

My rough definitions:

Game: Any personally challenging or competitive activity in which success is achieved principally by luck and/or by strategy. E.g. board games, parlour games, many playground games.

Sport: Any game in which physical performance (strength, endurance, accuracy and/or control) is a principal determinant of success.

Note that competition is not essential in either case. Solitaire is a game, as mountaineering is a sport. Conversely, many competitive activities are neither sports nor games, e.g. talent competitions.

Climbing, or using UKC?

Your own definition states against another so it's not possible to sportingly compete against yourself.

Religion

And pavement driving, the most dangerous of all

👍

Off topic pointless thread diversion is UKC sport at its finest

Objective danger on Uxbridge Road

"Maybe this is why "sport climbing" is called thus: it's on a "prepared ground"!"

I have always hated the term "sport climbing". To my mind there is nothing sporting about it

"You must be baffled by terms like SkySports, TalkSport and, the one I remember growing up in Scotland, Sportscene."

Yes, I am!    

Indeed, and to the point that is now Saint Gervais Mont Blanc... due to his never ending rivalry with Chamonix Mont Blanc.

Ricky Gervais?

I think your interpretation of sport is the old and traditional one.  People these days are wanting to place restrictions on word meanings limiting to a subset of their original.  The original climbers would definitely have called it sport. 

Sport also tests mental attitude, not just physical strength.

Completely agree. But so does playing poker, and dancing ballet. Not sure what your point is.

I was agreeing with you about the physical part but saying perhaps it wasn't quite sufficient not to mention the mental.  That is not the same as saying that mental exertion on its own can constitute a sport.

I always assumed "sport climbing" was a derogatory term, meaning playing at climbing rather than doing the real thing.

Why not confuse things and have ‘sport climbing’ and ‘sporting climbing’.

Definitely not sporting climbing! That's what the BMC have been blowing all our subscriptions on.

And "sporty climbing".

Pavement walking can include a sigificant element of competition if you're trying to reach the bus stop before the driver closes the doors

Pavement walking today comes with a very high risk factor as lycra clad cyclists whizz past at x knots, missing you by inches, and no warning bell sounded!

A "hobby"?! That's even worse than calling it a "sport"! Hobbies are... things like making buses out of wine boxes... You know... unmentionable things done by sociopaths.

Climbing is... a passion.