UKH

Please be reminded that the Carn Gowla area is still subject to a restriction from Tubby Head to the Bawden Cliff. Negotiations are ongoing with the National Trust and it looks likely that some sections of the crag will be accessible soon. Lots of work has gone into building a relationship with the NT ranger and it is important that this not squandered. A team was seen climbing last week. This makes it very tricky for us to be seen as responsive to the concerns of the NT in terms of wildlife. The restriction is due in part to the nest sites of schedule 1 birds. There is also an issue in relation to the citation for the protection of the general bird assemblage with the SSSI designation. We are waiting for the results of a bird survey which is still ongoing. There is clear information both here and on the BMC RAD about the restriction. 
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/carn_gowla-314/

James Mann

Just bumping this in the interests of information. 
 

James

Perhaps the wording on RAD could be improved, I expect these days most will be using select guides to this cliff myself included until the new guide is published. The resistive area "Tubby Head to the Bawden Cliff" probably means nothing to most climbers so maybe some assume that is outside of the common names of the buttress used in these guides... America, Black Walls, Vault, Mercury, Triple and Indian and it is OK to climb. 

My select guide from 2010 also has no mention of bird restrictions so many will assume good to go unfortunately unless they regularly follow access information. Is there any signage at the common abseil points, for such a important cliff it would be worth making the effort if there isn't.

To clarify, Tubby Head to the Bawden Cliff means all of Carn Gowla. My copy of Rebuffat’s Hundred finest Routes in the Mont Blanc Massif still exists includes the Bonatti Pillar. I do know however that climbing this could be tricky. The new Rockfax guide has info about it being necessary to check the RAD. We have done so much work locally to try and foster good relationships with the ranger and we just don’t want to see that undone. We are on a boat today with the ranger to carry out survey work and will have to apologise for the actions of the selfish and ignorant. 
 

james

In terms of signage, the warden is not keen due to not wishing to draw attention to nest sites. 
 

james

Just say the the whole cliff on RAD to make it as explicit as possible for climbers to follow. Write the information in a way everyone can follow it not just locals assume they know nothing. Using your example it is possible young climbers won't have even been born when the Bonatti Pillar fell down.

I think a lot more could be done to promote the BMC RAD, for a start UKC could put a sticky thread at top of the forum for those who don’t use the database. Posters at climbing walls too. It would be interesting to know how many climbers have actually dowloaded the app? Particularly as access seems to be threatened for a growing number of crags for a variety of reasons. The BMC should also have a RAD campaign to it’s affiliated clubs

Agreed. While the RAD is a brilliant thing, and needs to be better publicized, I think that there also needs to be an appreciation that not all climbers work from Rockfax or the UKC. I have a couple of shelves of guidebooks and would tend to pull them out rather than go online for info.

Signage at the top or at nearby parking would help. And I completely agree that the naming of the access restricted areas at Carn Gowla would mean little without an OS map.

I'm slowly becoming aware that I need to consult the RAD more, especially as I have a love of wilder and more remote places.

Like all databases, the BMC RAD is only as good as the information that is uploaded to it, so it needs to be fully supported with someone keeping it updated in real time by checking with other organisations regarding the situation with nesting birds etc. This should include local RSPB/NT/NE officers and not just those at Head Office.

There has been many cases of nesting birds/birds not nesting on Cornish cliffs over the years, yet either that info doesn't get to the BMC, or it's not inputted onto the RAD or the info amended, in good time - The annual Chough nesting situation, at Chair Ladder, being a case in point. (The birds might not nest at the same site, or leave earlier than the end of June). Looking at the RAD this morning, it seems this now considered an annual restriction for the foreseeable future, whereas the restriction only came into being because the Choughs had moved from their usual nest site, near Chair Ladder, onto the cliffs one particular year. 

Fortunately, Carn Gowla isn't the most popular of crags, but it has it's disciples (me included) and, being local, I am aware of the current issues, so stay away. A good social media campaign by the BMC about the Carn Gowla situation (and the RAD) would help prevent any unfortunate incidents that could jeopardize access, but not everyone uses UKC/social media. The NT and NE need to recognise this and understand that there may be the (very) occasional genuine mistake, especially if they aren't prepared to put a sign up at the main car park (let's be honest, I doubt anyone could be paid enough to put signs up at all the abseil access sites at Gowla).

Local BMC reps (unpaid volunteers) are doing their absolute best to ensure we get to keep climbing at the crag, so they need our support. Losing access here could be the thin end of the wedge, with loss of access to other, more popular, crags due to nesting birds (and other wildlife). When I first started climbing in Cornwall, there were no bird bans, except on Porthmonia Island. Now there are at least 5. Hence, the issue with climbers using older guidebooks that contain outdated information.

As for the Bonatti Pillar (which I've done), I doubt the latest generation of climbers even know who Bonatti was, or about his contribution to climbing.

​​​​

This has always seemed odd to me mate. Myself and a friend were met with a similar response from a warden after an unfortunate and unnecessary - had there been a sign present - event at a popularish crag hereabouts. I imagine any potential bird egg poacher will know well enough where to look for a nest without the help of a sign from the NT and similarly it seems unlikely that it'll encourage a regular tourist to try to descent down America Buttress or whatever just to get a look. 

Anyway, cheers for the timely heads up James.

I had an awkward conversation at the wall last night with a newish climber who didn't/couldn't/wouldn't understand the importance of adhering to access agreements, or indeed following any sort of agreed access, use or bolt code.  It verged on the surreal - the penny maybe started to drop when I explained the sorry history of Craig y Forwen.  He was incredulous that you could be fined £10k for disturbing a Schedule 1 nest, and said no-one would know and he'd just climb past it.  Equally (re Craig y Forwen) he wouldn't accept that 'causing a public nuisance' was an offence and thought that pissing at the side of the road in front of someone's house was fine.

He was, of course, a king idiot and I told him as much.  

I have a feeling that he's not alone.

Paradoxically, whilst he was dismissive of anything I and others told him of access agreements, he would not move from what he had been told by his 'instructor' - that was gospel and the absolute truth.  

Got to love clubs.  I'll not be climbing with him again...

An update on the current bird ban. James and I recently chartered a boat out of Newquay to undertake a complete photo survey of the whole crag where there are recorded routes. We have sent these to the NT Head Ranger and Dave Turnbull at the BMC, suggesting a zoom meeting at which James can show his close-up photos with nesting sites clearly visible. The Ranger has also some data from earlier surveys which he has told me he will forward.

Currently the temporary ban is still in place and we are working with the NT to have notice boards erected at the main carparks which will include a link to RAD and the Head Ranger's work mobile number, but I am hoping that we can soon agree to open up those sections of the cliffs where there is little or no seabird presence. As soon as possible I will also update RAD and post here and other media sites. In the meanwhile I'm asking climbers to be patient so that we can achieve a satisfactory compromise. Comments on the wording for RAD are noted. I can now post on the site directly as an Access Rep.

I also want to point out that there iare currently Schedule 1 birds nesting at Dodman Point on the South Coast. I'm following this up. The crag is not exactly popular but I'm aware that given the decline in coastal peregrine and other seabird populations, the various conservation lobbies are becoming increasingly active here in the SW and elsewhere. If we are not to lose some of the regions finest and most popular crags we need to contribute to the debate in a positive way. It is no good just claiming that we have a right to climb on CRoW land as the majority of our sea cliffs are SSSIs and subject to possible citation restrictions by NE that override our freedom to roam.

I don't want to get into a lengthy debate about the shortcomings of the various government and other organisations' attitude. Far more productive would be for more to attend their local area BMC meetings and make their comments there which can then be passed on to the BMC.