UKH

Good evening

I'm a freeride/off piste snowboarder based in Sheffield and have ridden descents down a number of grade I/II and grade II winter ice climbs in Scotland, predominantly around Ben Nevis, Aonach Mor etc.

I've been desperately trying to bag a descent of Mam Tor gully for around 3 years now but have never managed to spot it in condition. I'm very familiar with the line and the route itself.

I'd be really grateful for a bit of Beta from any local ice climbers about the gully regarding the following questions

1) What wind conditions help load the gully with snow? It's South-East facing, do you tend to keep an eye out for Northerlies/Westerlies following a solid snowfall?

2) In terms of bonding and stability of the snow to the underlying grass and scree, do you like to see a warm spell before a cold night to help consolidate and freeze the snow layer?

3) If you were wanting to see the gully full of bonded and stable snow, what weather conditions do you look out for and how do you know when the gully is in condition?

Many thanks

Steve

Steve, don't blame yourself, I don't think it's been in in the last three years. In the twenty years I've been in Sheffield I think it's only been in two or three times and only on one of those did I hear of anyone doing it. It isn't that steep apart from the narrow bit at the bottom, it would be grade 1 if it ever consolidated, which it doesn't. If you wait for it to be 'bonded and stable' you'll be waiting a long time. 

The best snow we tend to get in come from easterlies like the recent one, however this time it was too windy and cold which meant it was powder and blew away. The face gets the morning sun and strips very quickly on a sunny day, I've watched it go as I've been climbing up.

Thanks for the reply Adam, that's really handy info. It's worth knowing that you have to get onto it that fast to avoid sun stripping. Will keep a close eye out for more Easterlies. We'll get it one day, sounds like it'll have to be a before work job.

Back in the 1970s we had a long day of heavy snow and drove out in the College minibus after closing time to make a headlight ascent. There was a couple of feet of soft snow in the gully and an about a dozen of us climbed it, mostly solo though a couple of guys used ropes and did a more direct finish. After wandering around on the top for a while I had a brainstorm and ran to the edge and jumped off into the dark. The descent was pretty speedy but controlled it by opening and closing my legs to vary the build-up of snow.

At the bottom I turned and looked back up to see a line of head-torches zooming down the gully.

Chris

I drive past every day on the way to work.  I've climbed the gully in proper winter conditions I think every season for at least 5 years, almost always before work.  The face strips really quickly if its sunny but the gully and the face between the gully and the left ridge hold snow for longer.  It saw quite a few ski descents a few years ago (it might have been as far back as 2010?) and I think there was a picture of it being skied in a national newspaper title 'Val d'Derbyshire'.  Very little wind and heavy snow seems to be a winner for filling the gully.  I'm not a gully skier but presumably a big dump of powder is enough for you guys? I'm not sure it ever really bonds properly to the scree underneath to be honest!

As Dom says, the gully and the LH side of the face hold snow for much longer than the RH half, partly as the face curves round to the left and they get less sun, but also because most of the base there is grass rather than shale. For example the last of the "Beast from the East" snow only melted off the far left yesterday, and it didn't have all that much in the first place due to being dropped by an easterly. A westerly snowfall fills it pretty quickly, and the cornice can often build up 6 to 8 feet out from the solid ground. It does avalanche though, there was a doozy in the early Feb snow and I got caught once myself. The snow hardly ever bonds to the grass/shale/scree, but after two or three sunny but cold days it can get pretty consolidated. I work below it and usually manage a few wanders up it most winters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2939224/Deep-freeze-Britain-Fresh-b...

Haha! That's awesome Chris... and further evidence that ice climbers are crazy

Thanks Somerset, the face between the gully and the onlooker's left ridge/rib catches my eye too. Most definitely a big dump of powder would do the job, so it sounds like it needs either no wind or an Easterly and needs to be ridden first thing.

I've seen the photos- it looks like the gully can have its day.

Cheers Iain, I assume you mean climbers left of the face (rather than skiers left), it does look more grass based in photos. I'm suprised there was enough snow in it back in early Feb for it to slide. I feel like it would be a bit more predictable to ride it on consolidated firm snow rather than loose fresh stuff- will continue to keep an eye on it

I do indeed mean "climber's left". The early Feb snow came on a westerly so had much more depth - the cornice was pretty chunky and I suspect the avalanche was caused by it collapsing (I climbed past it half collapsed the evening before and gave it a wide berth). To get much in the gully you need the snow to fall either with little wind or a westerly, easterlies leave it pretty bare, even on the (climber's) left, as it is now. They make nicely frozen turf though. Incidentally if you're around today at least two people snowboarded the open gully (climber's) right of Speedwell Ridge in the Winnats yesterday and it's certainly doable now (just walked past it). There are similar runs in Cave Dale too.

Good luck,

Iain