UKH

With its tough Gore-Tex Pro fabric, excellent active cut and climbing-oriented features, the Pumori is a real contender if you're looking for a top-end burly winter mountain shell, says John McKenna.

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In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:

That price is really taking the piss, it's a GoreTex jacket for god's sake, basically the same as most other top shells. Big whoop.

In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:

If you got 5 winters worth of use out of its that's 144 quid per winter 😬

In reply to onlyhalfwayup:

Did you read the whole review? John discusses the price at some length noting its actually halfway between the top of range ME jacket and the top of the range Arcteryx jacket - so definitely expensive, but not the most expensive. 

There has clearly been an increase in prices since 2020 when we did this group test https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/clothing/waterproofs/bombproof_winter_mount... . Although there are much cheaper options there, already 500 to 525 seemed pretty standard for top of the range Goretex Pro mountain jacket. I've always thought ME seemed to charge a bit less for their jackets than competitors, but if their flagship jacket is now well over 600 quid, I expect many other brands will have a jacket in the 600 - 700 quid range.

The group test came out in late February 2020, just as we were all becoming of aware of this new disease spreading around the world. We've seen lots of inflation since COVID and the war in Ukraine. In the 2020 test the top of the range North Face Summit jacket (which I actually reviewed) was RRP £550. Using the Bank of England inflation calculator that is the same as £665.05 in Jan of this year (most recent date available). So 720 for this jacket is more than just an inflationary increase, although it is interesting to note that TNF after making a massive thing about their new better-than-anything proprietary fabric FUTURELIGHT, and using it in the Summit jacket, have - after 'mixed reviews' - gone back to Goretex Pro for their top jacket here. It maybe that buying you fabric from Gore accounts for the beyond inflation price increase.

In reply to TobyA:

I was discussing jacket prices with someone last week. I bought my Tupilak in 18/19 when RRP was £350. Same jacket is now RRP £475, which is a 36% price jump, which seems well above inflation. And my wages definitely haven't gone up 36% in that time. 

Boggles my mind that you can pay another 50%+ on top of that for essentially a tough waterproof coat.

It would be great to see an article looking at the increased costs faced by gear manufacturers and how that translates to consumer prices. I generally think most outdoor gear represents good value for money but there are some banner items that seem to attract mad price tags. I'm sure someone mentioned recently on another thread that the new DMM axes were going to cost £700 a pair...

In reply to TechnoJim:

It is an interesting issue - although I imagine most companies wouldn't want to go too deep into their financial situation with manufacturing.

I worked in outdoor shops back in the 90s. Back then the trade price that the shop paid for a product was basically half of what the price was on the shelf. So the shop had to pay VAT, all it's overheads and staff cost and make a profit out half of the cost the consumer paid. Supposedly at least back them this was a very low mark up compared to things like fashion retailing. In that sense outdoor gear (at least from the shop) was actually really good value. If you got 10% off with your club membership card or something, the shop didn't make much profit on the sale. If you found something on sale at 30 or 40 percent off, the shop quite possibly wasn't making any profit at all. Half price and they would be selling at a loss. Is there anyone out there working in shops who can explain if the situation has changed that much in modern times?

I've presumed (until they opened their own shops) that direct to consumer brands like Alpkit could sell so cheaply in comparison to brands sold in shops is that there didn't need to be a shop mark up. I have no idea but potentially do direct to consumer brands make more profit on their products than a brand like TNF or ME selling to shops?

In reply to TobyA:

I'm not sure the comparison with the ME Changabang is fair. The nearest jacket in the ME range is the Tupilak (though that lacks pit zips) and that is significantly cheaper.

There has always been a market for the bragging rights, top of the range, overspecced jackets (Berghaus Mera Peak or North Face Cloud Vale back in the 90's) but the TNF Pumori has at least made the effort to design a fairly stripped back jacket. 

It does seem a lot of money compared to others.

In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:

Gore Pro is very expensive nowadays. Montane, ME, Rab all do Gore Pro for 500 or less, not sure what you are getting for an almost 50% increase in price here. 

In reply to TechnoJim: I'd bear in mind that the headline rate of inflation is for the famous basket of stuff, and doesn't apply across the board.  Importing stuff in/out and around the world follows a different set of numbers.

UK economic policy has affected you negatively as well 

I can easily believe new DMM axes will be 350 each - whats RRP on a nomic.  Not far from that for me.

In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:

Anyone that buys a waterproof for £720 needs their head checking. You can buy a Simond 3L mountaineering waterproof for £169. If you're telling me GTX pro is a £551 premium that's worth it then I have some special beans you might like. 

In reply to TobyA:

Nope, basically the same. Only now there's more likelihood of someone trying something on then going to buy from an online shop without the overheads of a retail space

In reply to Rampart:

A friend who works in retail but in another country also confirmed to me that it remains very similar. He did note that some brands offer a slight discount to bricks and mortar stores, which is interesting but understandable. 

In reply to TobyA:

A flipside to this is that some brands pick their retail outlets fairly carefully, specifically to avoid having them be massively undercut by discount outlets. One might argue this goes against the ethos of the free market, but arguably it also helps the customer in that they can only get the stuff in places that can provide a certain level of service (and it maintains the reputation - and pricepoint - of the gear).

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

But 'worth' is quite a nebulous and subjective value. I could have spent whatever a Golf costs instead of getting a Phantom, and still get from A to B, but then I wouldn't have the Phantom

In reply to nufkin:

A Phantom has more than negligible quantifiable benefits