UKH

Hello Folks,

There is a thread over at MP reporting a small number of failures of Petzl Nomic and Ergonomic tools.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/125613018/petzl-ice-tool-failur...

I am positing this here to try to get an idea if there are more failures.

To be clear, this is not a problem wobbly heads or broken spikes.  This is the handle of the tool snapping off the shaft. 

We don't have enough information to know if this is a systematic problem, very rare one-off failures of relatively new tools, or failures of heavily-used tools.  From the few cases reported, it seems to be a combination of all of the above. 

So far, Petzl has not responded publicly in any way, despite private communication with a few individuals.

I am well aware that gear breaks, and nearly all companies have had problems with different parts over the years.  I also understand that there are important financial and liability concerns.

I don't want to cast Petzl in bad light, but our lives depend on these tools, so we need more information. 

If anybody has experienced this kind of failure, please post here.

I think a lot of people are overstating this issue. Almost all the failures posted in that MP thread have been from people who have been climbing a lot of hard mixed routes and accept that tools may break when pushing them that hard. 

I think even a lot of the specialist dry tools that pro athletes use in competitions would suffer similar consequences if used how some people push their nomics. 

The failures look dramatic, but really the numbers are very small. How many people have had gates jam, or shoes delaminate etc which could be equally as dangerous in certain circumstances. 

If I was Petzl I would maybe use a few of these examples as data points for the next generation of tools, similarly if I was the UIAA I might consider them as good benchmarks for the next revision of the standards.

Really interesting post, specially since I'm now owner of a pair of Ergonomics! My first gen Nomics are exempt of this, I had them for 15 years with incredible amounts of abuse and they are bombproof (once the wobbly head had a bolt through). But this sounds like a really concerning issue for newer models. I seem to recall Tim Miller broke his handle couple of seasons ago when doing that new route in Shelterstone?

Thanks for writing.  I basically agree with you.  I have not been one of the extreme voices on the MP thread.  That said, I climb a lot with these tools, and I think it needs to be publicly addressed in some way.  I'm also not sure that what you say is true, ie, that all the failures are from users who crank really hard on their tools.  One of the first failures that we learned about was from Caroline George.  Now, she's an amazing and baddass climber who mixes it up around Chamonix, but she suggested that it was a newish tool.

My basic point is, "keep calm, carry on, but gather information."

Hence this post.

there's a photo in this article

https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/features/perseverance_and_punterism_on_...

That's a scary picture, but it looks like a bit different mechanism and failure from what is described in the MP thread. 

Thought-provoking nonetheless.

As ice tools are an item of class III PPE, there is a Notified Body (APAVE Exploitation France for the Nomic) who are responsible for monitoring the equipment through periodic testing and production control. 

Therefore Petzl are under a strict watchful eye and I don't think they would be shirking responsibility for their tools. They will be complying with whatever regulations they need to which probably prevent them communicating publicly outside of an official recall. 

The best way to get Petzl to notice is to submit a warranty application. This will be logged and the Notified body will be made aware. 

We can hope that Petzl will build their next generation to exceed the strength of the current ones, but if they pass all the standard tests and the failures happen at a low enough rate then they are doing their job according to the law. 

Threads like these and the one on MP can inform users and potential buyers, but I am sure they will not lead to action from Petzl. 

Once again, I agree with what you write.  I am under no illusion that Petzl will suddenly issue a recall, or even a mea culpa of some kind. 

Like wobbly heads, broken pommels, grivel and black diamond crampons breaking, and so on, these failures will likely be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, keeping everything low profile, and perhaps making small in-line changes, as has happened in the past.  I am sure they will operate within the laws.

That said, it's a competitive marketplace, customers are fickle creatures, and reputation is everything. 

Black Diamond and DMM are both coming out with new tools next year, and that will certainly impact sales of Nomics and Ergonomics, perhaps not enough to shift policy, but it's a delicate moment for Petzl.  

A public statement, explanation, or message of some kind would go a long way to reassuring customers. 

I agree with you too, except maybe the part about it being a delicate moment for Petzl. I would imagine that their ice tools are made in such a tiny volume compared to their carabiners, grigris or helmets (and the entire professional range) that even a 50% drop in sales with new tools from competitors would not be a big deal for them. They might notice, adjust the criteria for the next generation, and take back a proportion of the market with their next swing of the axe (pun intended) but also, they might not.

Again, I think you're right.

Do you remember some years back, when the pommels on their (then newly-released) tools were failing? 

At some of the ice festivals in the US Petzl oprned booths where you could bring your tools, and they would drive a small pin into the pommel to keep it from rotating and breaking.  It wasn't perfect, but it was a pro-active way to deal with a problem.

We don't even know of this is a real problem--but if more examples turn up, it would be nice to see Petzl take a similar pro-active stand. 

It was worth it to them then...I wonder how the calculus will turn out this time?

Having seen the projected price of the DMM's, if i where petzl i wouldn't be at all worried about the new DMM tool