UKH

News that the Dartmoor camping saga has once again reared its head has been met with consternation by access campaigners and groups representing walkers. The Supreme Court has granted landowners the Darwalls leave to appeal in the wild camping case, which most  commentators thought had been settled in a judgement in July 2023.

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Hopefully the supreme court agree with the court of appeal.

Well after the biggest miscarriage of justice in legal history on something else recently,  let's see how "justice" is served in this. The outcome should tell us how the law really works in this lovely land of ours, one way or another. Why don't I feel positive?

Well, since they can't remove me from their land themselves, they can send the police to remove me.

It'll only be a 5-mile walk, I'm sure most bobbies are equipped and ready to prioritise that for the evening.

They really want to keep the land clear for their shooting and luxury camping I guess.

Lets see how it progresses and think I might lob a few quid in the pot for campaign.

More likely their hired man (Tory MP Anthony Mangnall) ensuring that they get their money's worth. Expect an entitled 'knock' on your tent door ...

I suspect you'll escape the long arm of the law since they appear to have problems attending a lot of actual crimes. If Dartmoor was closer I'd be poring over the map for a nice little backpacking trip.

They left me to do most of the investigation around my van being stolen and then cost me 300 quid more for the recovery by not bothering to tell me I could collect it once they had done a forensics exam after it was found abandoned. 

If a police officer has the time walk several miles in the dark to find my tent and wait while I pack up I would be amazed.

If it is banned (again) camping without permission would count as Trespass, so civil offense, not a criminal one? 

So even if police did have resources to attend, which obviously they don't, they have no power to intervene. Landowner can ask you to leave (and in theory pursue you through the civil courts if you refuse, but has that ever happened in the UK?) but police cant do anything unless criminal offense has taken place.

After this news cropped up last week, I took a walk up round Stall Moor (Darwalls land) on Saturday. Started at Cornwood, up around Dendles wood (saw a fox, rarely see them on the moor I find), across Stall Moor and down past Piles Copse (and a dip in the river, freezing!).

I saw one person all day. Its a lovely bit of moor, but given its almost impossible to access without a half day walk, I really don't understand his ridiculous vendetta against people camping there.  

Anyway, I have chucked a tenner in the legal fund, and I'll be up there camping once days get a bit longer.

Not since the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 prodded us towards totalitarianism. You can be prosecuted for it now.

Still, if it is banned then I'm sure there would be a healthy number of people prepared to stand their ground on it, 'Kinder style'. I would. 

Given the cost or taking this to appeal, I wonder if this has become a personal battle of pride from the landowner where it's a win at whatever the cost?

Barristers & solicitors have snouts in the trough again! If this last decision is overturned by the law-lords then it makes a mockery of any such law. When will it stop? Even Labour have backpeddaled on the promised Right to Roam legislation for England & Wales. It's all quite depressing. As my late father (21 yrs in the army incl. the war) used to say, "You can fight for your country but you can't walk across it! 

I'd forgotten about that bloody bill. I'll have to have a read and see what circumstances trespass is now a criminal offense. Another erosion of civil liberties. FFS!

I've done a bit more reading on the PCSCB, and what consequences might be for wild camping. It all seems a bit opaque, at least until there is some case law established. 

This chaps got a response from a National Police Chiefs council, basically stating unlikely to be applied to wild camping.....

https://www.willcycle.com/2022/06/30/wild-camping-and-the-new-pcsc-bill/

And similar message here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-crime-sentencing-and-cour...

"4.3 Is this going to affect people using the countryside?

No, nothing changes for those wishing to enjoy the countryside. The new criminal offence applies to those who cause significant damage, disruption or distress while residing on land without permission in or with a vehicle. This will ensure unintentional instances of trespass are not caught by the offence, such as hikers and walkers accessing the countryside as part of a recreational pastime.

The offence does not apply where no harm is caused, ensuring that a person will not be criminalised for their mere presence on the land."

Still, still seems like a regressive bit of legislation, and van dwelling climbers seem like they could run afoul of this...

I imagine our friend on Dartmoor would like to claim that camping without permission on an SSSI in a NP does cause harm