UKH

I owned the original Jottnar Neoshell trousers which were brilliant for scotland, you could walk in them (as opposite of Goretex which I get so sweaty)  and they had great mobility for hard pitches (they had a bit of stretch). Those are trashed now and I can’t fine any other good match of Neoshell and it seems the Gore Infinium is the alternative. Has anyone had any experience with that? The ones I looked at look very lightweight for hard Scottish trudging and not stretchy at all. I have a few Goretex shell trousers already, I find them quite constricted in terms of mobility. And I fear that pure soft shell I’ll get soaked. 

Any feedback greatly appreciated.

Thanks

In reply to Ramon Marin:

I wear Rab Matrix (ascendor alpine) in the same fashion, walk in, en route. Relatively cheap, stretchy, weather proof enough.

I have someight full waterproofs for those rare days that you have to walk in through rain/wet snow, but tbh those days are shite so I don't bother much anyway! 

In reply to Alasdair Fulton:

That’s great feedback, thanks!

In reply to Ramon Marin:

Ditto, though mine have not seen the mileage yours has. The loud lime green has started to fade though, and I'm pretty disappointed with the sombre shades of Jottnar's current offering.

In reply to planetmarshall:

I actually probably wouldn’t buy something as bright and light coloured again as it looks dirty and trashed pretty much early on, but something like a mustard or blue would work as a compromise between visibility and durability. Although if i find the right trousers I’d buy any colour. But it looks like Jottnar don’t do the neoshell anymore. 

In reply to Ramon Marin:

Hi Ramon, I've just started using some ME G2 pants which are goretex infinium (apparently - they have a goretex infinium logo on the trousers but confusingly the ME website says they are goretex windstopper. Maybe the website needs updating). Anyway, I've been really impressed with them for the same reasons you like neoshell - they provide much better weather resistance than my old softshells whilst staying really breathable and enough stretch for harder climbing. ME sell them as a softshell trouser so I would imagine they are on the breathable end of neoshell. Anyway I would recommend!

The one issue is they only come in black. Please outdoor brands have a bit of imagination when it comes to colours!! No dog walkers are buying g2 pants, they dont need to be black.

In reply to Ramon Marin:

How about the best of both worlds with a hybrid trouser? à la...

https://arcteryx.com/gb/en/shop/mens/alpha-hybrid-pant

It's a shame they only come in black and may be a bit thin on features. But something like that, or similar, might be just what you're after. 

In reply to Will Hempstead:

That’s great to know Will, yes I had those shortlisted together with the Rab Ascendor. The windstopper nomenclature is really confusing isn’t it? However when you check sellers website they do mention Infinium, so it is right. And yes, my god, manufacturers please do something about colours! In European brands you get all sorts of exciting colours, UK brands… black! 

In reply to Will Hempstead:

That’s because to all intents of purposes it is, it’s just been rebranded.  It’s still a membrane, with various face fabrics and liners, and no sealed seams because that might make it sound like their flavours of waterproof fabrics.

In reply to Ramon Marin:

Lots of reflection on 'is Infinium waterproof or not?' here https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/clothing/waterproofs/66north_skaftafell_jac... and the thread that sprang from it. I think it is, haven't used trousers made with the stuff though.

The new Jöttnar hardshell material they replaced neoshell with is really good stuff. https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/clothing/waterproofs/jottnar_odin_shell+van... It is a bit more hardshell feeling than my original black neoshell Jottnar bibs.

In reply to Ramon Marin:

I’m not sure when the change is taking place, or if it’s taken place already, but ‘Infinium’ is no more - or at least not in name - and is been re-branded/re-named ‘Windstopper’, which is ultimately what it was in the first place. It’ll probably be back to Infinium again if you wait a few years…

In reply to Ramon Marin:

I have a pair of the Ascendor pants and have used them for a couple of weeks so far. Got them cheap in the sales. They are pretty decent IMO, the one gripe I have is the seem reasonably easy to tear. I already have a couple of holes in them and it's been mostly skiing I've done with them. Also when it's actually raining, not water proof... 

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Infinium, ad infinitum.

In reply to beardy mike:

True, they're maybe not quite as bombproof as I would like - I was just putting it down to me being clumped footed with new crampons.

Luckily softshell is easy to stitch and glue.

I bought a pair of jottnar softshell pants a few years back, but sent them straight back as they were soooo thin. 

In reply to Ramon Marin: re. reflections on colour... I also like something other than black.  Looking at their website Jottnar seem to have switched their brand style from fun to ... less fun and more Thrudark..

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Right ok! that’s so confusing, when I read Windstopper I imagine my fleece from the early 2000’s. So it sounds like there’s nothing out there to replace Neoshell then? 

In reply to wbo2:

Yes I have one of their newer jackets but the trousers (I will be cold and dead before I refer to them as "pants") appear to be various shades of black and slightly-less black.

I have a pair of Millet Windstopper - Trilogy brand I think - trousers which I use in Scotland on less grim days. They came with a complimentary round of cheese.

In reply to Will Hempstead:

I have a pair of ME G2 trousers and they are blue it I bought them direct from ME so they may have been a sample 

In reply to TobyA:

Good article.  I’ve long moved away from this binary division.  In fact I’ve long moved away from wearing hard shells even in the heaviest rain.  I never found a membrane that didn’t make me boil in the bag and wetter from the inside, compared to a windproof with a good mid and base below or Rab vapourise style over a base.

I think the problem with any membrane is that their “breathability” is easily overwhelmed at anything above a gentle effort.  The humidity (amount of water vapour in the air) inside the jacket rises and rises till it reaches its dew point. Then it starts condensing back into the layers below.  You get wet and that moisture can’t get past the membrane barrier. With a windproof with high surface area wicking liner or mid layer the liquid moisture can be moved to the outside plus the humidity inside never reaches dew point. Result is you are far more comfortable even in heavy rain as your layers never reach saturation point, and any moisture is kept away from the skin.

In reply to Will Hempstead:

I always disliked gore windstopper - it seemed to fill an unwanted middle ground of neither as waterproof as a shell, or as breathable as a softshell - a kind of "worst of both worlds". 

However, off the back of your recommendation, and the fact that arcteryx rebranded their Gamma LT as, just, plain old Gamma (which I ordered, but have since found it to be a bit lightweight in both features and weatherproofness, I came across the Marmot ROM hoody in infinium (hybrid) which gets good reviews, is in bright orange, and was on SportPersuit for a mega bargain of £89!  Haven't used SP in years, but that's a winner! Beast £450 for the latest hardshells! 

In reply to Alasdair Fulton:

Have you used the Marmot Rom in anger at all? As you say, the reviews do look good, and the SP price is excellent.

In reply to tony:

It's in the post...

[will report back in a few weeks]

In reply to tony:

I've got one from a UKC review years ago. Still use it a fair amount - sort of to use the horrible phrase "shoulder season" all rounder. But the main problem is the hood is crap over a helmet so it rarely gets used in winter. It sounds like that Marmot might have taken this on board from early reviews and the modern versions have a proper helmet compatible hood.

In reply to TobyA:

That's very useful. I'd be using it for walking, rather than climbing, so issues with helmet-compatibility aren't really a concern. Given the number of jackets you must get through with your reviews, the fact that you're still using it sounds positive. The fact that the SportsPursuits options are bright orange chime with the recent discussions about wearing brightly coloured gear.

In reply to TobyA:

Let's hope mine is the new version! (I guess it's a risk it's not given the price...) 

In reply to Alasdair Fulton:

Always a risk with SportPursuit! Having said that, I have had some purchases from SP which have been great value even for previous season's models.

In reply to Ramon Marin:Maybe no help and no experience of infinium/wind stopper on trousers but I have 2 Castelli cycling tops and a Mammut jacket made of the stuff. Really good flexibility and durability though I’m not putting it through the same sort of wear as trousers. Water resistant up to a point but needs a rain jacket if out for a while in really wet weather. No boil in a bag effect.
 

I have a set of bib tights in a similar material, which have been great - keeps wind off, not too hot and rain resistant. I will be upgrading to an infinium/wind stopper set as they are on their last legs(😏) after 10 years of winter cycling usage.

In reply to tony:

Medium is a great fit, I'm 6ft/182cm and pretty normal build. I'd day the hood is just ok with a helmet on, so I'm not sure what the deal is. I think mine is V1.0, having seen the photos of the 2.0 they seem to have made it a MASSIVE hood.

https://static.sportfits.de/media/image/0d/1f/24/11350_3160_S100_F20.jpg