UKH

Hi, bit of a random question.

Im erecting a steel frame shed, the foundations are of a bolted cone configuration. The temps are dropping but keen to get steel up. The set back is it's forescast 3c temps for the foreseeable. And every grout I've googled for the past 2 hours advising against application below 5c. 

Phoned the shed fabricater and he said just get it up and overload concrete around each column. Not too keen to do this as  it's a muck mudding and tractors/bobcats will be nudging the walls. And think shed will push out on the bolt boxes.

Just like to ask UKC hide what grouts can be used in lower in 1-3c temps

Thanks

There are epoxy grouts that are suitable but they won't be cheap.

https://can.sika.com/content/dam/dms/ca01/0/ca-sika-cold-condition-product-...

Are you talking about concreting in the foundations or grouting something above the foundations?

If you are putting in the foundations I would add some more cement to the mix along with a frostproofer and protect it with blankets or even old carpet if you can find any.

Thanks for that, spent ages going through Sika and over products 

Foundations are complete, every steel column (19) has a bolt box, which is 4 bolts each sat in a cardboard cone to allow 20mm movement when erecting. This and the area under steel baseplate are what requires the grout

In that case I would go for a fast curing epoxy as recommeneded above, but there are a baffling array of options and I can never remember which one worked well from one year to the next

As a site engineer I was, have been involved with 100s of steel framed buildings.

Dont ignore the advice of your steel fabricator , erector or materials manufacturer.

The grouting is to fix the bolts position and protect from long term corrosion.

Regarding the driving of tractors into the frame, don't.  Install an  independent armco barrier or rc wall to protect the frame and cladding.

Thanks Rick it never occurred it's to protect against corrosion, im probably going to leave it till it warms a bit and can grout when it's warmer.

My fabricator who's also puts them up said not to bother with grout, and just concrete round the collums.......

One question can we put up the shell, then grout in a week or two when it's warmer, one thing if we did this would grout dispel rain water that's filled the cones?

Cheers

OK. Best to double check the alignment if you do it later.

Not best practice especially  if the design has a potential uplift loading on the holding down bolts and concrete  foundation. Will you be putting any corrosion protection on the steel that will be underground?  Usually done after grouting.

Usual grouting method is to build a temporary sand dam around the " bolt box" and pour grout so it floods across  from one side. Well denser than water so the grout will push the water before it.

Not best practice especially  if the design has a potential uplift loading on the holding down bolts and concrete  foundation. Have you put any corrosion protection on the steel that will be underground?

Wasn't going to not grout, was surprised he said that was his standard practice, haven't put any protection underground. What do you use to protect? Probably to late?

Usual grouting method is to build a temporary sand dam around the " bolt box" and pour grout so it floods across from one side. Well denser than water so the grout will push the water before it.

That's what I wanted to here, I knew concrete pushes water out ,just wasn't sure about grout if the baseplate is just 15mm above the foundations.

Thanks

The grout will protect the bolts and underside of baseplate. After grouting, normal to paint the topside of base plate and stanchion to just above concrete slab level with black sealant paint , proprietry brands available , probably just car underseal.

Great, thanks for all the advice 

Listen to Rick.  I'm a structural engineer but on the design side. Your fabricator is talking nonsense - the grout is there for several reasons.  Corrosion is one.  Another is to ensure uniform pressure under the column to the concrete below.  You won't get this with just concrete as it has lumps of aggregate it and won't be perfectly flat.  It's usual to protect below ground steelwork either with paint or by galvanizing.

reading the data blurb for conbextra gp, it suggests that mixing with warm water will allow use at sub 5 deg….

https://completeconstructionproducts.co.uk/grouts-anchors/fosroc-conbextra-...

I’m not up to speed on cold weather grouts, the following 2 point may be helpful 

If freezing and ice has formed grout will not dislodge and a void may be left 

when filling a watering can from one side will displace air under bace plate aka do not fill from 4 sides 

Decided to sack it off to it warms up a few degrees, don't want to risk gaps in the cones from any ice lingering.

Time to go winter climbing instead.

Thanks everyone for the help.

The grout is there :

to distribute the vertical load into the concrete rather than just concentrate it under the shim. That said, this load will be quite small in a steel framed portal shed.

to carry the shear load. The bolts have no restraint when loose in the cones. If the shed is sheeted then the wind (storm) load could shift it sideways before it’s grouted.

to corrosion protect the bolts in the longer term. Surface rust is no issue.

I would be the following :

Clean out the cardboard before you start. 
Use a decent size shim (100x100)

Erect, line and level. Mark it up so you can see if it moves later.

wait for it to warm up a bit.

make a 3x2 or 4x2 timber frame that’s 50mm bigger all around than the baseplate. Silicone it down to the foundation pad. 

Pour grout from one side, let it displace the water and overflow.

if you’ve got a really big gap under the baseplate you can do a combined job where you use pure grout to fill the cones and then make a batch of grout + 3mm granno chippings to fill the bulk. This is cheaper and probably stronger, and flows pretty well.