UKH

We loved Montane's Spine jacket, and felt that for running in harsh conditions it would be hard to beat. Well has its replacement managed that tall order? Bridget Glaister and Rob Greenwood zip up to investigate.

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In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:

the price of waterproofs seems to have gone up exponentially! comparatively to other pieces of key softshells, windproods, fleeces, rucksacks etc.  

In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:

I love my Spine jacket. Not sure I'd be keen to spend an extra 80 quid for (i) nicer pockets which I never use anyway, and (ii) a toggle, if in need of a new jacket.

In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:

This might be the dog's b*ll*cks but it's £330 !!!

Which is fine if you do a fair bit of whatever you do in the hills even if it's wet - but my main concern would be longevity/robustness. How many years would it last, or maybe that should be how many wet days walking/running in the hills would it last...

• 100 - £3.30/go - that's ok
• 50 - £6.60/go - getting a bit more expensive
• 30 - £11/go - starting to look rather expensive

In reply to Michael Hood:

VFM is hard to quantify isn't it. I think unless you live right near the hills/mountains and can walk/run/climb in them on say a weekly basis, its best to get kit that will/can be used when you're not in the hills (obviously this only really applies to clothing and not specialised climbing gear etc. For example some softshells/windproofs/fleeces/gloves etc I have  I've worn them loads biking/walking/running around suburbia/local flat trails that they've paid for themselves many times over, but, if I'd only used them on visits to the hills/mountains the VFM would have dropped right down. 

In reply to Denning76:

Back when I reviewed the Spine Jacket I did think that Montane had priced it quite competitively, because you got a lot of jacket for £250.

£330 is obviously a lot more, but I think it sounds like disproportionately more given how good value the Spine Jacket was. In addition to this, if you go into an outdoor shop these days I doubt you'll find many - or any - sub-£300 Gore Tex jackets. Cheaper alternatives are available, but in my experience they're unlikely to offer the longevity, waterproofing, and breathability that Gore Tex does.

In reply to Michael Hood:

Go into an outdoor shop, speak to the staff, look at the product on the walls - this is how much Gore Tex jackets cost. Yes, you can find cheaper alternatives; yes, you can find deals; but at RRP - like it or loathe it - that's what it is.

I think if longevity and robustness are what you're after, this isn't the jacket you'd be buying, but in spite of this I've easily had 100+ days in my Spine Jacket and suspect I'll get the same from the Phase Nano.

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Really nice review.

I have an old Montane featherlite jacket, something like this: https://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Clothing-Footwear/Technical-Clothing... - which I bought maybe 10+ years ago and it's seen plenty of use and still in decent, useable condition. It was in a sale at about £50 and I remember thinking, ooooh that's that a lot. It's been incredibly good value for money. My partner runs in the fells (Lakes) at least weekly, often more and often in horrendous weather. Her latest jacket, purchased earlier this year, was about £120-£150, can't remember the brand, but I do remember it took a lot of deliberating before deciding on it. It seems to work a treat. My old Montane still works fine too, keeps me warm enough and dry-ish.

£330 for a running jacket is nuts. No doubt plenty of folk will buy these and like them. But there's perfectly good alternatives for less than half the price.

In reply to Mark Eddy:

I think you're quite right, there's plenty of good alternatives, and I've reviewed a fair few of them. However, within all the running jackets that I've ever reviewed/owned - this is the one I'd want with me in the worst weather.

When buying cheaper jackets in/around the price point you've mentioned you usually have to sacrifice one or more of the following: waterproofing, breathability, durability. When it comes to durability in particular, I've used and abused a great many 2 and 2.5 layer jackets over the years (which is likely what you're getting when you spend that amount of money) and what's noticable is how much quicker they wear out. I don't think it'd be unfair to say that they're unlikely to last a 1/3 of the timeframe that a decent 3 layer jacket would, so the economy of buying a 'cheap jacket' isn't all it's cracked up to be - at least not in the long term.

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

I've thought about this a bit recently - Goretex Paclite is cheap. It has made me wonder just why it is so much cheaper than Goretex Pro (or why Goretex Pro is so much more expensive!). 

In reply to TobyA:

The answer, going back to those three criteria I outlined above, is quite simple - it's because it's less waterproof, less breathable and less durable. 

Gore Tex Pro beats it on all three accounts, as does Gore Tex Active. When it comes to the differences in between these two, Gore Tex Pro beats Gore Tex Active in terms of its waterproofing and its durability, but Gore Tex Active has the edge in terms of breathability.

In reply to UKC/UKH Gear: Like so many of these jackets I think these look shorter than I think ideal.  So, no, not the ultimate.  

In reply to wbo2:

Let me get this straight, you're saying you'd like a long running jacket? I get that a longer cut is perfect for walking, but for running - definitely not.

In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:Yes, basically.  Not long, but over the bum - better when it rains.  

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Available now for a mere £260 from the Climbers Shop/Joe Browns 

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

I had presumed this was the case as well but very interestingly Rab has published both hydrostatic head figures and RET figures for Paclite and Pro on their website (they might well have the Active figures there if they make anything from that material but I didn't look). But anyway, the HH figure for both Pro and Paclite is 28 000, so in that sense they are equally waterproof. the RET figures for Pro is >6, for Paclite >9 it would be interesting to know if Active does have lower RET figure (lower is more breathable).

In reply to wbo2:

I'm all up for a waterproof jacket that's better when it rains, but does a longer over the bum cut actually make it that much better (or do I have a particularly high tolerance for soggy buttocks)? Again, I get the use for this whilst walking, but when running I'd prefer something more minimalist and maneuverable.

What's of key importance to me is that it isn't so short that when you put on overtrousers there's a gap in between the two, because if that was the case then there would be a problem, as you need that overlap to create a seal that keeps the rain out. 

In reply to redscotti:

Deals come and go, which is why we always deal with RRP; however, I'd say that 9 times out of 10 you can get whatever it is that we're reviewing for cheaper than that.

In reply to TobyA:

Active is <4, so significantly more breathable than both Pro and Paclite.

Another major difference between Pro/Active and Paclite is that the former both feature a proper backer, whereas the latter's is sprayed on. Having a proper backer has a whole host of benefits, not least in terms of performance, as it does a better job of dispersing sweat and water vapour, but it's also significantly more durable too. 

Paclite is definitely light, and it's definitely packable, but it's also incomparable to Pro and Active in terms of its actual performance.

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing: Subjectively I like it more.

I really detest wearing over trousers to run.  If I get up in the morning, and it's a gentle rain I don't mind getting wet legs, but a wet backside is disproportionately annoying so a slightly longer jacket is better.

We're talking 5cms or so here .... I am pretty sure jackets back in the day were a tiny bit longer.

In reply to redscotti:

If anyone's interested Mountain Kit have Small Phase Nano Pull On for £150.00 and if in the area of the Montane factory shop they have other great discounts (I don't work there just popped in myself). I managed to get a Spine jacket for £125.00.