UKH

Any recommendations for a head torch for trail running during the winter nights. I'm already bored of the road routes where i run. They wont be long runs, between 5 and 10 k

Cheers 

In reply to the sheep:

I have a LEDLenser SEO5 which seems to have been discontinued. It's fine - 180 lumens for up to 7 hours is enough for a winter run round the 3 peaks. Also comes with a rechargeable battery pack which I'd say is a must-have if you're running regularly but neatly can also use 3 AAAs which makes it easy to carry backup juice. It was about £30 in the sale I think. Alpkit have options at a similar price range.

Bob Grahaming friends swear by the Petzl NAO - it's double the price of mine but really impressive.

In reply to the sheep:

I would vote for a small, light, cheapish one.  Why?  Well, I want to be seen and I want to avoid tripping over stuff, but I also don't want to have my retinas blinded with a small circle of light, I'd rather let my night vision do its work.

In reply to the sheep:

I mainly use a Petzl Actik Core - previous model but the current one looks similar. Good beam pattern and easily bright enough for me on its medium (100 lumen) setting. You can use AAAs as well as the included battery.

I also really like the Petzl Iko Core - very light, stable and comfy on my head - but it’s a bit more expensive than the Actik and difficult to stuff in a small pocket if needed.

In reply to the sheep:

I use these:

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/evadict-ontrail-900-lumens-trail-running-fron...

Good.  Bright and reliable.

In reply to the sheep:

Most of my running is night trail running similar distances to what you describe. 

I use a petzl swift, mainly as I already had one as my climbing headtorch, but have found it pretty good for running. The medium setting is bright enough to avoid tripping on roots running through dark woods, and even on full beam the battery life is plenty long enough for those distances, even in the cold for a slow bugger like me.

In reply to the sheep:

Biolite 800 pro* is an alternative to the usual petzl / Silva etc. It’s great, reliable, bright and the battery is at the back so it’s more stable with a red flashing light in case you are on any roads. Twice the price of the decathlon version posted above but better built IMO.

In reply to Garethza:

I have an earlier gen biolite 750.

Incredible battery life with the battery at the back of your head which balances better. Very bright in short bursts when you need it. The red rear light is the main selling point. I want to see forwards and be seen by any cars approaching from behind me.

The only thing about the 750 that I'd change is it still uses micro USB, not USB C.  Otherwise, it's just about perfect.

In reply to the sheep:

Petzl Swift RL 

900Lumes, good diffuser so covers a wide area of trail and super bright and light 

In reply to echo34:

I have a Petzl Swift RL which I like.  It does have an issue though, it’s very easy to switch on accidentally.  

My one hangs up in the porch and I’ve found it switched on, presumably by me or someone else hanging an item over it, or next to it.

Not had it in a bag or vest pocket yet, but I’d be wary of inadvertently running down the battery.

In reply to Sealwife:

Slide the switch to the lock position?

In reply to echo34:

Thanks - have looked properly at the torch and found the lock position!  I hadn’t realised it had that feature 

In reply to the sheep:

Biolite 800 pro is easily the best all round head torch I have owned. Incredibly light and the band is really comfy when on. A lot of torches move and bounce to much for running but this one is great!

In reply to the sheep:

second vote for the Petzl Actik Core. rechargeable battery.

Last year I took to combining it with one of those relatively cheap chest mounted torches which has a red light on your back.  Found that the combination of two lights was really helpful because the chest one always points forwards and then the head one points where you're looking. 

In reply to the sheep: This https://silvasweden.com/no/products/trail-runner is the best headtorch I've owned.  Nice to use, durable, price is right.

Petzl are ok too.  I have an iko and the unusual head 'frame' works well for running, but it's not that bright, and a bit of a one trick pony.

In reply to wbo2:

The Fenix HM655-T works well for running. 18650 battery with usb c recharge.

The headband holds the light steady and is more robust than I expected. good selection of light beams. (there is also an HM65r-dt which I think has slightly different beams)

This is quite a different beast from the HM65r - the 'T' it won't really fit on helmets.

Only downside is in thick fog (as for all head torches)....have now worked out a way of wrapping it round my hand which makes things easier.

In reply to the sheep:

Apologies for ignoring the question and offering unsolicited advice instead, but...

Whatever head torch you end up with, can I suggest that you also have one in your hand?
The trouble with a head torch is that the beam being very close to your eyes kind of 'flattens' what you see, which can be less than helpful on awkward terrain.

Also, this, from the post above^

Aimed at the ground in front of you, the beam passes right in front of your eyes, so if there's a bit of fog there you're dazzled by the brilliantly lit droplets of water.  I find it doesn't need fog for this to happen, if it's chilly and I'm working up a bit of a sweat then just high humidity will do - unfortunately I manufacture my own fog!  Any time I can see my breath, a head torch on my actual head is not very helpful.  (And this is usually the case on a clear night from now until the Spring.)

What I've taken to doing is having a relatively feeble cheapy Decathlon head torch with a wide beam mounted on my chest - that's just enough to see where the path is when the terrain is easy, doesn't wreck my night vision and does fine on familiar ground when I know where I'm going.  (I don't run very fast at the best of times anyway, so it doesn't have to light the path v far ahead.)

Then I also carry a more powerful torch in my hand - used on low power for more tricky terrain over rocks/roots etc. and high power as required for navigation or whatever.

In reply to wbo2:

My experience is quite different, although I accept I may be an outlier. My Silva Trail Runner has been nothing but a hassle. The rechargeable battery is slightly mis-sized so that if the unit is bumped or shaken slightly it looses connection and you loose any light. 

More than that, the body of the light has separated from its backing leaving the unit/cables exposed to rain/elements. I fixed this with superglue, which no doubt means that it is no longer a "sealed unit" with a much reduced shelf life.

I wouldn't depend on it for a long night run (fortunately I don't do many of them any longer) but it is excellent for dog walks.

Brian.

In reply to deepsoup:

I agree, sort of. I botched a waist light and with a head torch too; it was a revelation as the depth perception with the waist light was much improved. 

Also with the fancy light control that dims when it detects that you need close in light, its dims when my steamy breath interacts with the beam

In reply to elliot.baker:

I too think highly of my Actik Core.

Good point about a chest light. Night overtook me on the hill a few winters ago, and I had to descend the very rough eastern side of Garburn Pass into Kentmere in the dark. It was pitch black, and raining too, the puddles and wet rocks reflecting the light from my headtorch (an old Petzl Tikka+ that had served me well for many a year). I realised that I had poor depth perception, I think because there were no shadows cast as the light source was so close to my eyes, and I really had to concentrate on the roughest part of the track. I do wonder whether having a second light source away from the eyes would have helped, either a chest light or a small hand torch.

In reply to the sheep:

If doing night races, I wonder how effective a torch like that fancy 10k lumen Silva one would be, worn backwards.

In reply to the sheep:

I have the older Petzl Nao and my wife the new version. They provide a lots of light, have an optional red light at the back and we got them as those with a  lower light were more difficult to use when running the woods (loads of trip hazards particularly tree routes). They are both rechargeable and we have spare batteries for long events. They are bright enough to be angled quite horizontally giving 5 metres or so of field. The newer one can be clipped directly into a generic USB-C battery box. Before we moved here and ran off-road in parks and fields a much smaller light was fine - so horses for courses! They would also be quite large and heavy for morning glacier travel.

My headtorch describes itself as Petzl Tikka Plus" (not bought by me) and generally feels inadequate for night running, which is putting me off night running. Does anyone know if this is an old model and would I do better with something else?

In reply to BusyLizzie:

This is the type of torch that we used before and I agree as we had a few narrow misses and one nasty fall. They are fine for emergencies or on a shiny white glacier, but not in a dark shadowy wood, particularly when running with others. It will be providing 200-400 lumens depending on the exact model (manufacturers vary in their figures) and new LED torches will be a lot brighter and the biggest (e.g. NAO RL) have much brighter lights (max 1500 lumens). HTH

In reply to SouthernSteve:

Thank you, I thought as much! Sounds like I should get a new one and keep this as back-up.

In reply to the sheep:

I recently got a Petzl Swift RL & used it for the first time in the Peak a fortnight ago. Comfortable & I like the reactive lighting, though still need to get used to not cranking it up to full power too readily & aiming the beam more downwards to make the most of the reactive lighting & get better battery economy. Impressed by it though, & already keen to use it again. 
 

In the past I’ve used Petzl Tikka - the 15+ year old models I’ve got knocking around are solid but don’t provide nearly as much light as more modern ones. Have borrowed my partner’s Black Diamond torch in the past. Not sure what model it is (circa 2015) but it’s comfy with reasonable output. Downside is the settings are fiddly with more variations than I personally need. The battery compartment is also a pain to open. In fairness, BD torches might’ve changed a fair bit since she bought it 8 years ago.  I’d still use both the Tikka or the BD torch happily for a couple of hours. 

In reply to the sheep:

There was talk above about botching a headtorch to fit round your waist ( or carrying in your hand ) when it's foggy ( or even some rain and definitely snow ) to avoid the reflection from moisture in the air blinding you.

Maybe check out the Ultraspire Lumen series ( 200, 400 and 600 ). It's a battery/torch unit which comes with 2 different "carry" systems - a headband, and a waistband, the main unit just clips in to either band. So you could change to whatever is most appropriate before you head out, or even carry the other band in a pocket and could switch mid-run if the weather changed.

Not tried it myself, but very tempted by the 600 lumen - downside looks to be price (and availability).

Running Xpert do currently have it reduced from £140 to £97 

https://www.runningxpert.com/en/ultraspire-lumen-600-4-0-waist-light-ua541-...

In reply to the sheep:

I have the Ledlenser NEO10R, really rate it and its currently half price on sportpursuit.com. 

In reply to the sheep:

At the budget end of the market, I've had an alpkit qark for a couple of years. £34, up to 580 lumens, adjusts from spot to wide beam, also has red front light for close work, decent head band.

Only downsides for me are the on/off button is hard to locate, and you have to cycle through all the modes to get to the red light.

More than enough light for running on the fells, rough terrain and woodland, and bright enough on high power and spot mode to look for landmarks (IMHO).

In reply to BusyLizzie:

I have an old Tikka+, has served me well for many a year, but the light output is low compared to modern equivalents, which have come i=on in leaps and bounds, even in the last few years.

For example, my Petzl Actik, purchased maybe two years ago, has an output of 350 Lumens (which I find more than enough for walking), whereas the latest Petzl Actik Core has an output of 600 lumens.

The downside of having higher output is that it will disproportionately reduce battery life. Also remember that all other things being equal the effective range will be proportional to the square root of the light output.

In reply to WildAboutWalking:

Thank you.

As I was walking home from the station yesterday a group of runners came thundering past me, all with super-bright head-torches, which sent me the same message!

Off-road night running round here (Chilterns) almost always involves woodland, or awkward paths around fields, and as a  clumsy old lady I really need something that shows the ground clearly. Time to get a new torch and keep the old one as back-up.

In reply to the sheep:

Slightly off topic - so apologies.  Head torch battery life - do rechargeable batteries last longer than ordinary ones, particularly in the cold ?

My experience with a 400 lumen head torch with 3 AAA  Alkaline batteries last winter in the cold was that on full beam the batteries were dying after about 2.5 hours, no matter how many bunnies took part in the advertisements. I switched to Lithium batteries and those comfortably lasted at least 4 hours, which is what I needed (ML night nav). Although you can't recharge them in a tent - how would rechargeable batteries of a similar size fare ?    thanks

In reply to iani:

Bespoke rechargeable batteries seemed better that three AAs when I first made the swap, but they do deteriorate over time, although often you can get a replacement. Rechargeable AAs versus expensive disposables I thought the disposable were better, so your observation is different. Perhaps cheap rechargeables.

For best winter use using a torch with a long lead and the battery in your pocket will help and I bought an extra lead for my Petzl to allow this. 

In reply to SouthernSteve:

Thanks Steve - sorry - my message was a bit garbled .  I was comparing disposable alkaline against disposable lithium.    I haven't tried rechargeable in my head torch, so I was looking for comment on rechargeable vs the rest.    Last year Argos were selling off AAA  lithium disposables - they are still available through the likes of Amazon but not a cheap alternative now. 

In reply to iani:

I think cold significantly affects battery life, regardless of the battery type.

Lithium and NiMH much better than alkaline though.

In reply to the sheep:

I've had a petzl myo for 10 years.super bright and bomber. As long as you dry it and store it with no batteries in it you can't go wrong.

Theynhave been discontinued but here's one for 60 quid new https://www.outdoormegastore.co.uk/petzl-myo-rxp-headlamp.html

Bargin. I run in pitch dark including in the mountains s and its ace

In reply to iani:

I used NiMH batteries in my Petzl Tikka+ for years, still do for dog walking. My impression was that I got longer from a fresh set of branded Alkaline, and that the NiMH cells do deteriorate once they have been recharged many times.

Also - they do not hold charge well, so make sure that you charge them shortly before you use them in anger. Found this out the hard way!

In reply to the sheep:

Stock answer from all the ultra running geeks is

Fenix HM65r-dt

Will do a whole night at 400+ lumens, which not even a nao can do but weighs less. Boa headstrap, CNC body, warm dual led, 18650, £75 from AliExpress.

If you want a small one the nitecore ul25 is a genius short run lamp with usb c. Not quite as bright as a swift rl but weighs like 40g. 

In reply to iani:

I used disposable lithium batteries (AA, Energizer brand) in a Petzl Myo headtorch and a handheld Garmin GPS in a long winter multi-day race (Spine race).

I found that they lasted about 60% longer than NiMH in the torch and about 100% longer in the GPS. I didn’t compare with alkaline batteries.

But the batteries are very expensive, so I wouldn’t use them generally. It’d be much cheaper to get a torch with a big enough rechargeable battery for regular use.

In reply to the sheep:

Another vote for Petzl Swift RL. I use mine for all sorts of trail shenanigans and very impressed with the reactive lighting in the medium setting (rarely use on full power). I have 2 extra batteries for all-nighters (Arc of Attrition). Swift RL flashes to warn when the battery is about to die, then its a simple task to swap batteries. I also usually have a Petzl Bindi worn necklace style, so that I've got a readily accessible spare headtorch available if needed.

N

In reply to the sheep:

I've just got round to buying a Fenix HM65R-DT (with thanks to all on this thread for advice ... also there's a good review on YouTube by The Trail Running Couple) and was amused to find that the cheapest on-line source was a fishing tackle supplier.

In reply to various: In general I thought rechargable kicked out less power than alkalines , as there are some devices you can't use rechargables in ... provisos are 

1. I don't know about relative effects of temp on alk vs. rechargable

2.  Rechargable technology is improving, and there are different types.

I never like disposing of alkalines now - feels wrong

In reply to the sheep:

Update: my Fenix HM65R-DT arrived and I've just taken it for a trundle - mix of off-road and unlit road - and it is amazing. The weight is no bother and it's like having a car headlight on the trails - can't believe how good it is.

In reply to the sheep:

Another vote for the petzl attik core.

small, light and gives a couple of hours decent light