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I am heading out to the Himalayas in October and need to build my fitness. I get into the hills plenty but I want to get a bit fitter. I hate the treadmills and excercise bike! Fellrunning seems the natural progression but I'm a big lad and after trying it a few times my feet have been killing me. I am wearing some Walsh PB at the mo. any recommendations for shoes or techniques please?!!!
In reply to hopskin316: Walsh's don't have much padding so if you're running on hard ground your feet can take a battering! Maybe try a more trail orientated trainer, or run on softer ground! Most of the big companies do something with plenty of padding, Nike, Adidas etc. If that doesn't help, i'd suggest maybe doing shorter runs for a bit to get your feet used to the terrain. Especially if you haven't done much running before. Your feet and made up of loads of small muscles and tendons etc and they have to adapt to new stresses just like any other muscles.
In reply to bobbyf: Thanks for that. I was looking at buying maybe some la Sportiva Crosslite or Inov8 Roclites?
In reply to hopskin316: What are you training on?
If on moorland walshes will be fine.
Cross lites are good, not great for traversing but decent enough.
They'll all be fine. Fell running just works the feet muscles more than normal running so it could be that. If on good trails I just wear road shoes.
If on moorland walshes will be fine.
Cross lites are good, not great for traversing but decent enough.
They'll all be fine. Fell running just works the feet muscles more than normal running so it could be that. If on good trails I just wear road shoes.
Hey there Hopskin
I used Walsh PBs for about 20yrs, mainly because there wasn't much else around at the time that came close to them; for fit, grip & reliability.
Then, Inov8s arrived!!!
They have a big range of shoes for loads of different uses.
Great little feature on their website to help you narrow it down too:
http://www.inov-8.com/Products-Recommended-By-Features.asp?PG=PG1&L=26
The main problem that people find when switching to the fells is that fell shoes feel like they don't provide the necessary support (as road shoes).
The problem is that if a shoe is too built-up, it could hinder you on the fells, (but it doesn't have to be a stripped down racer neither!)
Speak to the staff at a decent running shop; Pete Blands, Lakes Runner...
They'll be able to help you choose & give you advice.
Try on plenty of models.
(I still use Walshes from time to time, their range is bigger nowadays).
FRA Forums are a useful source of info too:
http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/
If you're new to the game, start off steady; walk the uphills & run the flat/downhill. Join a (fell)running club, join the FRA...
Fellrunning will get you fit for sure.
Happy running!
I used Walsh PBs for about 20yrs, mainly because there wasn't much else around at the time that came close to them; for fit, grip & reliability.
Then, Inov8s arrived!!!
They have a big range of shoes for loads of different uses.
Great little feature on their website to help you narrow it down too:
http://www.inov-8.com/Products-Recommended-By-Features.asp?PG=PG1&L=26
The main problem that people find when switching to the fells is that fell shoes feel like they don't provide the necessary support (as road shoes).
The problem is that if a shoe is too built-up, it could hinder you on the fells, (but it doesn't have to be a stripped down racer neither!)
Speak to the staff at a decent running shop; Pete Blands, Lakes Runner...
They'll be able to help you choose & give you advice.
Try on plenty of models.
(I still use Walshes from time to time, their range is bigger nowadays).
FRA Forums are a useful source of info too:
http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/
If you're new to the game, start off steady; walk the uphills & run the flat/downhill. Join a (fell)running club, join the FRA...
Fellrunning will get you fit for sure.
Happy running!
In reply to hopskin316:
fell runnings the shit. a great thing to get into.
make the effort to get good shoes and try on a few choices. crosslites are great and nimble (you can tell LA make climbing shoes) but also pretty minimal.
if you want more structure to the shoe have a looksee at innov8s range.
go easy on yourself until you work out a good technique for descending at pace - that may be whats beating your feet up.
if it helps, a shoe with a toe box you can really push into (ie not too tapered or tight, and well laced) so you can shift to a toe strike on the way down might help.
also, if you see any of the skyracing stuff, they use a technique where they drop down sideways rather than facing into the path, as a way of variating the muscular impact.
training youself to bend further into the strike part of the stride, and to lengthen your stride with a longer, more streamlined movement that uses more upper body and arm momentum spreads any impact out rather than running like a robot.
dont forget to use your arms as extra lift on ascents.
single legged pistol squats and lifts help with that, as well as the core strengthening to tie it all together.
fell runnings the shit. a great thing to get into.
make the effort to get good shoes and try on a few choices. crosslites are great and nimble (you can tell LA make climbing shoes) but also pretty minimal.
if you want more structure to the shoe have a looksee at innov8s range.
go easy on yourself until you work out a good technique for descending at pace - that may be whats beating your feet up.
if it helps, a shoe with a toe box you can really push into (ie not too tapered or tight, and well laced) so you can shift to a toe strike on the way down might help.
also, if you see any of the skyracing stuff, they use a technique where they drop down sideways rather than facing into the path, as a way of variating the muscular impact.
training youself to bend further into the strike part of the stride, and to lengthen your stride with a longer, more streamlined movement that uses more upper body and arm momentum spreads any impact out rather than running like a robot.
dont forget to use your arms as extra lift on ascents.
single legged pistol squats and lifts help with that, as well as the core strengthening to tie it all together.
In reply to hopskin316:
I've found Inov8s to be a bit narrow so you should perhaps avoid them if you have wide feet. Mine are mudclaws (I think?) so perhaps just this style?
> (In reply to bobbyf) Thanks for that. I was looking at buying maybe some la Sportiva Crosslite or Inov8 Roclites?
I've found Inov8s to be a bit narrow so you should perhaps avoid them if you have wide feet. Mine are mudclaws (I think?) so perhaps just this style?
In reply to hopskin316:
Another possibility is the Salomon range. I have pretty broad feet, and these were the only shoes that seemed to give the perfect fit for me. Shame about the horrendous price tag though!
Another possibility is the Salomon range. I have pretty broad feet, and these were the only shoes that seemed to give the perfect fit for me. Shame about the horrendous price tag though!
In reply to hopskin316: When you get to the Himalaya, however fit you are, don't do too much too soon.
In reply to Ridge: I have wide feet, and even for me, the Walsh Ultra range are boaty..very wide..
I also find mizuno wave harriers broad at the toe box, and also wear montrail highlanders and solomans; generally the inov8 range doesn't fit well.
I also find mizuno wave harriers broad at the toe box, and also wear montrail highlanders and solomans; generally the inov8 range doesn't fit well.
In reply to hopskin316:
What are you doing in the Himalayas? You might well be fit enough already, given that acclimatising can limit how far you should go in a day. What is really, really important IMHO is that you are used to whatever footwear you are going to wear there, and to carrying whatever weight you will be. My own suggestion would be to wear and carry your Himalayan kit, and walk on plenty of rough & steep ground.
When I was trekking I met a woman who wore the wrong pair of socks one day (or so she said) and ended up with infected blisters and mangled toenails on both feet, a bad knee, a bad back and an expensive air fare from Jomson down to Pokera. She was also carrying a massive pack as she was doing the year out thing visiting interesting and exotic places.
What are you doing in the Himalayas? You might well be fit enough already, given that acclimatising can limit how far you should go in a day. What is really, really important IMHO is that you are used to whatever footwear you are going to wear there, and to carrying whatever weight you will be. My own suggestion would be to wear and carry your Himalayan kit, and walk on plenty of rough & steep ground.
When I was trekking I met a woman who wore the wrong pair of socks one day (or so she said) and ended up with infected blisters and mangled toenails on both feet, a bad knee, a bad back and an expensive air fare from Jomson down to Pokera. She was also carrying a massive pack as she was doing the year out thing visiting interesting and exotic places.
In reply to IainRUK:
Do you not find the Highlanders to be very narrow? I tried a pair on last week (partly because I'd read your enthusiastic posts about them) and was disappointed to find them so narrow, to the point where I figured they'd get really uncomfortable after a while. Ended up with a pair of Roclites instead, which are much wider.
> (In reply to Ridge) I have wide feet, and even for me, the Walsh Ultra range are boaty..very wide..
>
> I also find mizuno wave harriers broad at the toe box, and also wear montrail highlanders and solomans; generally the inov8 range doesn't fit well.
>
> I also find mizuno wave harriers broad at the toe box, and also wear montrail highlanders and solomans; generally the inov8 range doesn't fit well.
Do you not find the Highlanders to be very narrow? I tried a pair on last week (partly because I'd read your enthusiastic posts about them) and was disappointed to find them so narrow, to the point where I figured they'd get really uncomfortable after a while. Ended up with a pair of Roclites instead, which are much wider.
In reply to tony:
everyones got different feet - so will suit different shoes
there's an element of risk involved - as even the most extensive walking rouind a shop/ in your house deciding if you like the fit doesn't compare to a longish/steepish run.
ie i got some highloanders and they fit (my feet) lovely - but when i ran in them the heel aggravated my achilles.
i haven't tried on any innovs in a while - but I like walshes for true fell, and i've got some new balance trail type shoes and some mizuno wave harriers.
everyones got different feet - so will suit different shoes
there's an element of risk involved - as even the most extensive walking rouind a shop/ in your house deciding if you like the fit doesn't compare to a longish/steepish run.
ie i got some highloanders and they fit (my feet) lovely - but when i ran in them the heel aggravated my achilles.
i haven't tried on any innovs in a while - but I like walshes for true fell, and i've got some new balance trail type shoes and some mizuno wave harriers.
In reply to tony: I find them OK, they aren't as wide as the walshes, but don't give me blisters at all. I have wide feet at the fore foot region.
In reply to Ridge:
just make sure you get shoes with a spiked fell grip - seems to me the soles on salomons, tho they last well and are great for trails, are slippery and not lugged enough for wet rock and mud.
im sure they do a fell shoe very similar to sportivas crosslite.
> (In reply to hopskin316)
>
> Another possibility is the Salomon range....
>
> Another possibility is the Salomon range....
just make sure you get shoes with a spiked fell grip - seems to me the soles on salomons, tho they last well and are great for trails, are slippery and not lugged enough for wet rock and mud.
im sure they do a fell shoe very similar to sportivas crosslite.
In reply to Removed User:
Inov's come in 2 lasts - performance and endurance fits. The endurance is broader and the performance is a narrower more snug fit, apparently. Your Mudclaws are the performance fit and the Roclites the original poster mentions are the endurance fit.
Inov's come in 2 lasts - performance and endurance fits. The endurance is broader and the performance is a narrower more snug fit, apparently. Your Mudclaws are the performance fit and the Roclites the original poster mentions are the endurance fit.
In reply to hopskin316:
Run up hill and walk down. Find some where where you can get that like a range of plateaux and keep your heart rate up. To be honest, depending on how high you are going, it's probably not going to help that much.
I think it was on here that someone once compared various aspects of climbing. Mountaineering came out as, "Walking uphill whilst feeling a little bit ill"
> I am heading out to the Himalayas in October and need to build my fitness. I get into the hills plenty but I want to get a bit fitter. I hate the treadmills and excercise bike! Fellrunning seems the natural progression but I'm a big lad and after trying it a few times my feet have been killing me. I am wearing some Walsh PB at the mo. any recommendations for shoes or techniques please?!!!
Run up hill and walk down. Find some where where you can get that like a range of plateaux and keep your heart rate up. To be honest, depending on how high you are going, it's probably not going to help that much.
I think it was on here that someone once compared various aspects of climbing. Mountaineering came out as, "Walking uphill whilst feeling a little bit ill"
As well as using a shoe with a little more cushioning like the Roclite 315 or the Crosslites (I have both and the crosslite has a stiffer sole which offers more protection on broken ground but less ground feedback, but IMO is one of the best all round shoes) you should also consider how to build up your foot strength (also mentioned above). This can be done with a weekly, short, low intensity barefoot run.
Running strength takes time to build, and people often have the muscle strength but lack the strength in connective tissue to remain injury free. Your training should work on this and some gym style strength training will be beneficial.
One final point is that the intensity of your himalayan trip is fairly low while the endurance element is high (in general) and this should also be reflected in your training. Always keep your final objective in mind and don't end up training for a fell race.
Running strength takes time to build, and people often have the muscle strength but lack the strength in connective tissue to remain injury free. Your training should work on this and some gym style strength training will be beneficial.
One final point is that the intensity of your himalayan trip is fairly low while the endurance element is high (in general) and this should also be reflected in your training. Always keep your final objective in mind and don't end up training for a fell race.
In reply to Stuart - Facewest:
That's time though. You train with limited amount of time
Training at a higher intensity like running will improve your CV, muscle strength, lactic tolerance and many other systems.
>
> One final point is that the intensity of your himalayan trip is fairly low while the endurance element is high (in general) and this should also be reflected in your training. Always keep your final objective in mind and don't end up training for a fell race.
> One final point is that the intensity of your himalayan trip is fairly low while the endurance element is high (in general) and this should also be reflected in your training. Always keep your final objective in mind and don't end up training for a fell race.
That's time though. You train with limited amount of time
Training at a higher intensity like running will improve your CV, muscle strength, lactic tolerance and many other systems.
In reply to neilinut:
I must confess that rather than getting myself fit before I went up Kili, I'd have been better off smoking 50 fags a day and getting used to walking up a hill with a minging hangover..
> (In reply to hopskin316)
> [...]
> I think it was on here that someone once compared various aspects of climbing. Mountaineering came out as, "Walking uphill whilst feeling a little bit ill"
> [...]
> I think it was on here that someone once compared various aspects of climbing. Mountaineering came out as, "Walking uphill whilst feeling a little bit ill"
I must confess that rather than getting myself fit before I went up Kili, I'd have been better off smoking 50 fags a day and getting used to walking up a hill with a minging hangover..
In reply to hopskin316: Will you also be trying the Fowler method of eating in as many dodgy curry houses as possible, to acclimatise you to eating spicy food with the risk of food poisoning?
In reply to ice.solo:
I use the Salomon Speedcross 2's and have no probs in any conditions and found them excellent on ice over winter. Have run in the Lakes in them, again no problem. They have a very solid chassis which may be to far removed from a usual shoe for some. They grip like my ladies buttocks on a g-string. tip-top!
> (In reply to Ridge)
> [...]
>
> just make sure you get shoes with a spiked fell grip - seems to me the soles on salomons, tho they last well and are great for trails, are slippery and not lugged enough for wet rock and mud.
> [...]
>
> just make sure you get shoes with a spiked fell grip - seems to me the soles on salomons, tho they last well and are great for trails, are slippery and not lugged enough for wet rock and mud.
I use the Salomon Speedcross 2's and have no probs in any conditions and found them excellent on ice over winter. Have run in the Lakes in them, again no problem. They have a very solid chassis which may be to far removed from a usual shoe for some. They grip like my ladies buttocks on a g-string. tip-top!
In reply to Fishmate: Do you not find the toe box rips?
I've worn a few pairs, once heard one runner finishing a race saying the grip was shit; race winner, now record holder sat there, quielt said, 'I wore the same shoe'..I like them, my only issues were, high heal, but teh main issue was durability of toe box mesh.
I've worn a few pairs, once heard one runner finishing a race saying the grip was shit; race winner, now record holder sat there, quielt said, 'I wore the same shoe'..I like them, my only issues were, high heal, but teh main issue was durability of toe box mesh.
In reply to Fishmate:
aye, theyre the salomon model with the fell tread - couldnt remember the name.
cheers for the graphic description of their gripping power too...
aye, theyre the salomon model with the fell tread - couldnt remember the name.
cheers for the graphic description of their gripping power too...
In reply to ice.solo: Has anybody else had problems with the Crosslites? I find the mesh fabric splits on the sides of the forefoot. I'm on my fourth pair, usually get around 250 miles out of them before they die.
In reply to bobert: I liked them at first, but they also split, but the main issue was that mesh over the laces, felt like I could never get them tight enough.
In reply to IainRUK: Never had problems with the lacing on them just the general longevity of theuppers. It's annoying considering the price of them now. Just got some roclite 320's for the ultra stuff. What did you use for the UTMB?
In reply to bobert:
ive found them good - no splitting. but i only wear them on mountain stuff. regular trails where i dont need the spiked grip for mud and rock slabs i use rucky chuckys - much heavier but built for pounding out miles.
yeah, the mesh over the laces is a pain. TNF have it on a pair of their shoes but under the laces.
ive found them good - no splitting. but i only wear them on mountain stuff. regular trails where i dont need the spiked grip for mud and rock slabs i use rucky chuckys - much heavier but built for pounding out miles.
yeah, the mesh over the laces is a pain. TNF have it on a pair of their shoes but under the laces.
In reply to bobert: Mizuno wave harriers. They don't have great grip or cushioning, but they just fit me really well.
In reply to ice.solo: The crosslites fit so well and for the distances i do on the fell i haven't found a better shoe. Just wish they'd last longer.
IainR; cheers, i have been reading your Utmb thread from 2008 on the fra and think i'm at the stage now of which shoes to use and whether to use poles?
IainR; cheers, i have been reading your Utmb thread from 2008 on the fra and think i'm at the stage now of which shoes to use and whether to use poles?
In reply to bobert: I found poles great last year. Take a while to get used to, so I got them out early whilst I wasn't too tired. Good luck, its a cracking race. I'm having one of the biggest crashes in form since god knows when...mileage has been good, was running well in Febuary but hit April and have since just got worse and worse..if I was a greyhound I'd have been shot a month ago...
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