Skins for Kungsladen?

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 didntcomelast 05 Nov 2021

Quick question. I am booked on a ski tour of the Kungsladen March 2022 with a well known U.K. adventure travel company. They state that as part of the kit list, skins are required for skis.

i own a set of Fischer E99 BCX skis with fish scales. I’ve used them extensively in the U.K. uphill and down dale with no issue. I’m not even sure they would take a skin, there’s no nothing apparent to attach the skin front to. Has anyone who has done the Kungsladen in winter managed without skins or do I bite the bullet and get a new set of skis (which a really don’t want to do for one weeks skiing) my E99’s are still in great condition.

The Company have said that they put down what the guides leading the trip require, they go on to say that the final decision is with the guide as to whether I can complete the trip if I don’t have skins, I don’t have details who the guide is. That was something I was going to take up with the company and see if I could contact the guide directly. 

My main enquiry with the U.K. hillwalking folk is whether those that have done the trip whether guided or independently have felt the need for skins over expedition cross country skis like the E99’s.

In reply to didntcomelast:

I think we may have used skins for an hour or two on the Kungsleden. Depends if you are going to go up Kebnekaise as a side trip at the end. This is steeper. 
However the skins were simple and had no front  attachment and worked fine like that. I wouldn’t buy new skis for sure.

 OwenM 05 Nov 2021
In reply to didntcomelast:

Yes I'd say take skins, they have a metal clip that just fits over your ski tip. Some have a tension arrangement on the  tail but other brands don't. The skin itself is glued onto the bottom of the ski. They'll fit any ski of the right width so there's no need to buy new skis. Just make sure you get a set  that covers as much of the base as possible but leaves the metal edges exposed. 

For long uphill grinds in deep loose snow they are really the only option. 

 wbo2 05 Nov 2021
In reply to didntcomelast:  don't know anything about Kungsgladen, but I have exactly those skis , plus skins to fit .  I'm just using a standard set of Colltex skins with the aforementioned metal clip.  

 The fish scales are ok enough, but for looong climbs the skins are a big improvement 

 rif 05 Nov 2021
In reply to didntcomelast:

I don't know that specific tour but do have very similar skis. Fishscales are great for undulating ground, but as others have said, skins are a big help on uphills that are steep, deep, or very icy. You want something like these Colltex ones: https://www.braemarmountainsports.com/ski-equipment/alpine-skins/colltex-50... , or the BD equivalent. Cut them to length if necessary. Try to keep powder snow off the sticky side, otherwise the tails will come loose, and carry some ducktape in case that does happen.

In reply to OwenM:

Yeah maybe mine had a loop for the tip. I forget.

Post edited at 17:05
OP didntcomelast 05 Nov 2021
In reply to Jonathan Lagoe - UKC:

No Kebnekaise side trip and around £100 for a set of skins I may use for a couple of hours doesn’t seem a very good deal.  

Im looking at eBay for second hand ex military see if that helps.

 Doug 05 Nov 2021
In reply to didntcomelast:

As others have said, you can use skins with E99s. I've never skied in Sweden but have skied quite a bit in Norway & although you might get away with fishscales alone, if everybody else in the group is using skins on steeper slopes/ long uphills you'll probably be slower or at best using a lot more effort than every one else.

 TobyA 05 Nov 2021
In reply to didntcomelast:

I've been along a bit of it as we crossed the lake from the Stora Sjöfallet side into Sarek. I definitely had skins because I had tele skis without waxless bases. We skied some peaks in Sarek so you definitely need them for that, but I don't know how steep the trail goes. Remember if you have a heavy pack or are pulling a pulk, you need more grip. Do your skis have metal edges? We skate skied across the lake going back, good fun, but on ice and icy snow edges help.

 wbo2 05 Nov 2021
In reply to didntcomelast: you can use cheaper skins than that, but they'll still be 70 quid... buy them in Sweden.

Yes, metal edges

OP didntcomelast 05 Nov 2021
In reply to wbo2 and Toby A  

looking at some ex military skins on eBay  will have to trim the back clip off as they’re too short to fully fasten to my skis but gaffa tape will sort that. Yes my skis have full metal edges, they are basically expedition skis so built for hard work. We are not pulling pulks but carrying a light pack so grip issues will in the main be irrelevant. The route follows roughly the summer route using the frozen lakes to speed the journey. No peaks are being planned and the highest climb in a day is only 400m.

that may all change if I get to speak to the trip guide. They will hopefully have a good idea whether I will really need skins given that I have spent the last few years skiing the north Pennines which are trackless heather covered slog fests  

 summo 05 Nov 2021
In reply to didntcomelast:

I've known people do it on skinless skis waxing as required. I suspect skins are the guides insurance policy against those who can't weight transfer very well when tired etc.. if they trust your word you can ski they might be OK with it. But I bet they've had clients before who considered themselves competent, only weren't. 

You can get grip tape made by start, which you can just cut to length, but I think it leaves a residue on your bases after and you don't want to be messing about cleaning them etc..

Post edited at 20:09
 Doug 05 Nov 2021
In reply to summo:

I've used grip tape & been impressed by how well it worked, don't remember any residues. But that was on waxable skis, the OP has waxless/fishscale skis, not sure grip wax would work so well on those but skins would

 wbo2 05 Nov 2021
In reply to didntcomelast:

You shouldn't need to gaffa tape the skins on  if the glue is ok. How old/much are they?

I have exactly the same ski..

 Bill Thomson 05 Nov 2021
In reply to didntcomelast:

Hi,

I have skied the Kungsleden , assuming you mean the classic Abisko to Nikkoluokta section. Been to that area four times. I have rarely used skins, I have found fish scales perfectly feasible for that trip. My skins are short sections about 40cm long (designed for different skis which accept such small skins with a front clip section, which I cut off). I have climbed quite steep hills with such skins stuck over the central fish scale region, and I use gaffa tape over the front and back ( not duck tape!). Tape is needed with such short skins. The gaffa tape does crease up after a while, but to just get up the odd hill they are fine. But if the guided trip says need skins then you could be refused if you don’t have them. Whether they will accept gaffa taped short skins , you would need to check. There is a bit of a long drag up from Abiskojaure , and from Tjaktja and from Singi, but personally all could be feasible with fish scales, but short skins do work well. It’s a great trip, and there are some amazing quiet areas either side of the main track, including in Norway. 

 HeMa 06 Nov 2021
In reply to Bill Thomson:

Yeah, when I was researching on doing Abisko Nikkaluokta part of Kunsleden, I came to the conclusion that fish scale fjelltouring skis (like the OPs E99s) would be a good option. Or the newer waxed models that have the built in kicker skin option (short skin, roughly the portion where fish scales would be), e.g Åsnes and Madshus have them.

 Fruit 06 Nov 2021
In reply to didntcomelast:

We did the trip a few years back. Despite being classed as an intermediate trip, all of the participants were blaggers, none of them ever having Nordic skied before.

we used the hire skis, with skins. I remember them being useful in slowing me down on one descent! 
it was an excellent trip, finished off with an ‘exciting’ solo trip up Kebnikese.

I guess if the guide wants you to have skins and you want to go on their trip ……….

have fun!

In reply to didntcomelast:

I've travelled in that area. Frankly I wouldn't go off grid without skins. Yes it's amazing to ski without them, but if you need them and don't have them it will be a nightmare. Even if you don't ever use them, you'll always be prepared. 

I have E109's with fishscales and skins work fine. I think I have the Montana Montanyl synthetics from Braemar MS. 

OP didntcomelast 06 Nov 2021
In reply to wbo2:The skis are about 10yrs old.  I will take the gaffa tape as insurance if the glue fails on the back of the skin  

OP didntcomelast 06 Nov 2021
In reply to Fruit: I suspect I will buy some second hand skins from eBay and see how I get on. I know what you mean about people exaggerating their experience, the travel company wanted details of outdoor experience which I think they initially doubted. I know the company will be outsourcing for guides which is why I’ve asked them for a contact for the guide, so I can liaise directly with them.  The annoying ( selfish on my part ) thing is that I’d originally thought to do the trip independently but my mates partner wants to come and they’ve little cross country experience, hence the guided trip. It also made sorting logistics a lot easier at the expense of flexibility in travel. 

 TobyA 06 Nov 2021
In reply to didntcomelast:

> I suspect I will buy some second hand skins from eBay and see how I get on. 

Having had my skins fail on me in Sarek, glue/age issues I think it was, I would suggest that's not the greatest plan. At the very least it will mess up your holiday. 

Basically, somewhere on an Arctic mountain isn't the best place to find some of your gear isn't working properly! You can bodge stuff but it will probably limit what you can do.

 HeMa 06 Nov 2021
In reply to TobyA:

> Having had my skins fail on me in Sarek, glue/age issues I think it was, I would suggest that's not the greatest plan. At the very least it will mess up your holiday. 

> Basically, somewhere on an Arctic mountain isn't the best place to find some of your gear isn't working properly! You can bodge stuff but it will probably limit what you can do.

True dat, albeit with scales that is less of an issue than with “flat” skis, like downhill oriented stuff.

instead of trying to find crap 2nd hand skins. The OP could look into buying skins per meter… get about as long skin as your skis are, width 100mm. Cut in half. DIY front loop (coat hanger, cord), double up around 10cm from the front around the loop.

then attach and trim (you’ll want both edges visible).

finish the thing by rounding up the tail.

I’ll wager the cost is about the same as 2nd hand skins, but these have fresh glue that’ll last a long time.

 random_watcher 06 Nov 2021
In reply to didntcomelast:

You can buy new full length skins with fixed tip loops for nordic skis for £75. Which doesn't seem too bad for a trip like this, you might even find you get more use out of them than you thought in the UK.

https://www.braemarmountainsports.com/ski-equipment/alpine-skins/montana-mo...

 crayefish 07 Nov 2021
In reply to didntcomelast:

Will you be with packs or sleds?  The latter will definitely need skins.

Some parts are 'steeper' and if you get the sort of awful unconsolidated windblown snow that I had last Feb, you'll need skins to make progress.  At a few points even my kicker skins weren't enough and I had to go for full length.

 Moacs 07 Nov 2021
In reply to didntcomelast:

Are you doing the whole route, or just the popular section Abisko-Kebnekaise?

There's nothing steep on that in either direction.  The next section south has a steepish first section if you're going north; it'd be fine southwards.  I haven't done the southern half of the route.

OP didntcomelast 09 Nov 2021
In reply to Moacs:Yes Abisko to Kebnekaise, just heard back from the tour company who have informed me that they are not an absolute requirement, I’m still going to look into some second hand ones or perhaps by the metre though. Appreciate peoples concern about glue failure but to be honest if I have an issue with a skin on a section of hill, I’ll work a solution.  It’s a skidoo supported trip so no pulk pulling, just a day pack. 


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