UKH

Ultra training road shoes

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 mattyP 15 Dec 2020

What are peoples preferences for ultra training on the roads? I want a shoe capable of doing long (20mile) on road. I run in a 6mm drop on road, and a mix of 4mm and 6mm on trail/fell. 

 wbo2 16 Dec 2020
In reply to mattyP: Which road shoes do you use now? And why not those?

Nike Pegasus worked for 20 milers for marathon training for me, and Asics Kayano.

 Marek 16 Dec 2020
In reply to mattyP:

Curious question. Surely the only answer is: "Whatever suits you particular foot dynamics and you find comfortable". Without more information about your feet, all you'll get is variations "Well I've worn brand X for Y miles and they were good". Which really tells you nothing about what would suit YOU.

Do you know your foot dynamics (pronation etc.,)? If not, it's worth getting your gait tested (usually  done in a good running shoe shop). If you do knows, then it narrow your choice and would help if you shared that information. Beyond that, try and see what suits you (good shop again). Do you have wide or narrow feet? Toe shape? All vital info for useful advice. Some people are very particular, other less so. The only shoes I wouldn't wear for a 20 miles on the road would be my Walshes (aggressive fell running shoe), the rest would all do a decent job (better than my legs, these days).

Oh and only buy shoes online if it's a model you've already had and are happy with. 

Post edited at 08:42
 dovebiker 16 Dec 2020

Depends on your running style / preferences but I prefer something with good cushioning. Hoka One One are very popular with the ultra-running cloud for this reason - the Bondi is their most cushioned road shoe. 

 plyometrics 16 Dec 2020
In reply to mattyP:

Hoka Carbon X worth looking at. Ridiculously expensive, but very fast and very comfortable.

Been running in them for over 12 months now.

Best of their road shoe collection since the legendary Clifton 1 and 2. (IMHO)

 waitout 17 Dec 2020
In reply to mattyP:

I've liked Hoka Cliftons and Mafates (despite the latter being a trail shoe), and Saucony ISO Rides. All quite different, and I rotate to keep things fresh. Distances out to around 90k.

Personally I find inner soles are half the issue, and have some EVA foam bubble foam ones that are great.

 Roadrunner6 17 Dec 2020
In reply to mattyP:

I'm loving the saucony endorphin speeds. Buy like the saucony ride 13 as a general shoe.

 mattyP 17 Dec 2020
In reply to Marek:

Sorry i wasn’t clear. I run a fair bit so I’m capable of choosing a shoe that suits me once I’ve got a shortlist but I was interested in what people like and why to help narrow down the huge list of possibilities! 
 

The new Saucony Endorphin range seems to review well. I’d be more tempted by the shift I think (assuming it fits!)

 Roadrunner6 17 Dec 2020
In reply to mattyP:

I've not tried the shift. Tempted to as a general shoe.

 Roadrunner6 18 Dec 2020
In reply to wbo2:

The new pegasus have horrible reviews. I was going to get a pair but the latest version isn't getting similar reviews to the old ones. I have the pegasus turbo 2 which I love but I didnt get good mileage out of them.

 kathrync 18 Dec 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> The new pegasus have horrible reviews. I was going to get a pair but the latest version isn't getting similar reviews to the old ones. 

My old pegasus are on their way out so I was disappointed to see this too. I hope that the 38 model is better when it comes out. My current pair might just about last that long...

 wbo2 18 Dec 2020
In reply to mattyP/roadrunner - they're certainly a lot more flexible.. I prefer something a bit stiffer fore/aft.  What are others saying? 

 Roadrunner6 18 Dec 2020
In reply to wbo2:

Just that they are a very different shoe, some reviews have been very negative like they've managed to make a good shoe bad.

https://www.solereview.com/nike-air-zoom-pegasus-37-review/

Most reviews are fine so maybe they are ok, but most reviews tend to be great on any shoe so bad reviews stand out.

I can't buy nike locally so have to buy on line so didn't get them.

 wbo2 18 Dec 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:  I only have 37's!! Doomed!

In reply to mattyP:

> The new Saucony Endorphin range seems to review well. I’d be more tempted by the shift I think (assuming it fits!)

I love the Endorphin range, I have the Pro and the Speed. I've not tried the Shift, but it is worth noting that the Shift doesn't use the same PEBA foam (PWRRUN in the Shift, PWRRUN PB in the Pro and Speed), which is the biggest single factor in their brilliance in my view.

I have a pair of Ride ISO2 that are my easy / distance shoe, but more and more I'm choosing the Speed. 

 Roadrunner6 19 Dec 2020
In reply to The New NickB:

I've got the ride 13 and like them as a general shoe. The speeds are the best shoe I've ever worn. Not sure I can justify the pro, do you think it's worth the extra money?

In reply to Roadrunner6:

Compared to the Pro, the Speed gives you 95% of the benefit. They are a tiny a bit heavier and have a tiny bit less of that push or pop from the carbon vs nylon plate, but it is all pretty marginal. Love both, bought the Speed because the Pro were so good, but the Speed is more than enough for me.

 mattyP 19 Dec 2020
In reply to The New NickB:

Would you do your regular (20mile) runs in the Speed? Or are they just not that sort of shoe?

In reply to mattyP:

I would, but it is an expensive shoe to be racking up big miles in. If I was marathon training, I’d use them for those 20 milers were I’m aiming to run the last 5 miles at target marathon pace.

It would be the shoe I would race a marathon in.

Post edited at 19:22
 Roadrunner6 19 Dec 2020
In reply to mattyP:

I use them for that. I've ran a marathon on them and then a 25.5 mile training run and a few 15-16 milers. Legs felt great. I try to use them just for my quality long runs as they are pricey but certainly a very good marathon shoe.

From the people I've spoken to they last well if you do use them as a general shoe. I do lots of general run in the 7:30-8 min miles range and think it'd be a waste to wear them for that.

Post edited at 20:51
 samuel_w 23 Dec 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Swerving away a little from OP (sorry!) Looking at replacing my Boston 9 in the new year & looking for a durable shoe that will happily do 80km per week & will get 800km+ out of it (what I usually get from Bostons). Not looking for ultra-distance, just a jack of all trades (like the Boston, really). Tend to do at least one long run (up to 20km), one speed session & one threshold - with a 2/3 double days & plenty of easy stuff. 
 

Ride 13? Hyperion Tempo? (is it too lightweight to be durable?) Endorphin Speed? (can I justify the price tag?)

 Roadrunner6 23 Dec 2020
In reply to samuel_w:

Haven't tried the hyperion.
I love the ride 13 as a general shoe.

TBH I'm an ambassador for Salming so I shouldn't big up Saucony so much. But I do like the Salming greyhound, heavy ish (10.5 oz), big cushion, last forever, you'll get close to 1000 miles out of them, easily 6-700. They are my work horse shoe. Just general runs, bad weather etc, I just use them.  (EDIT, JUST CHECKED THE UK STORE AND THEY ARE CRAZY EXPENSIVE TO WHAT I PAY..)

I won't use the endorphin speed for general runs, now its just long runs where I'm wanting to run pretty quick or workouts. The Endorphins are basically the boost material, you'll see as soon as you pick them up it's very similar to the boost material. I loved the Boosts but found them a bit too thin and unsupportive for general runs.

Post edited at 14:19
 Roadrunner6 23 Dec 2020
In reply to samuel_w:

Also, not sure if you can get skechers in the UK but the gorun ride 8 is a great general shoe, which again lasts well.

In reply to Roadrunner6:

I think the PEBA foam in the Endorphins feels very different to the Boost. I’ve run PBs in Boost, but the Endorphins are superior shoes.

 Roadrunner6 23 Dec 2020
In reply to The New NickB:

Is it not just there's more of it? I agree I think the endorphins are a better shoe, but better cushioning.

Is that pellet like stuff the same material or just looks similar? I thought I read somewhere it was the same, maybe I was wrong.

No, you're right its a different material, boost is eTPU and the Saucony are PEBA.

Good article here

https://www.doctorsofrunning.com/2020/04/footwear-science-evidenced-based-review.html

Post edited at 15:29
 samuel_w 23 Dec 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Thanks, that’s helpful. I’m erring towards the Ride 13. Happy to pay a bit of a weight penalty on faster workouts & threshold (can always put on some flats for that anyway, given there’s little point saving them for racing at the moment!

 mattyP 28 Dec 2020
In reply to mattyP:

Well I'm now no more decided. I should go to the local shop but it's a faff getting to town to try things on! 

I also need a new pair of trail shoes (old Saucony peregrines beginning to die, as are my Roclites) but might just go like for like!

 mountainbagger 28 Dec 2020
In reply to mattyP:

> I also need a new pair of trail shoes (old Saucony peregrines beginning to die, as are my Roclites) but might just go like for like!

I've just ordered some Hoka Torrent 2 using some vouchers I got for Christmas. I've got Roclites but they are not comfortable on sections of hardpacked trail or tarmac that I inevitably have to run through to get to the muddy stuff around here and, to be honest, they're just not the same as the first pair I had. I already have a pair of Hoka Challengers that are just awesome for mixed road and trail but aren't quite up to it when it gets really muddy. I'm hoping the Torrents give me just enough grip without being totally horrible on harder surfaces.

I'll post back once I've tried them out (if I remember!).

 mattyP 29 Dec 2020
In reply to mountainbagger:

I’ve never tried Hoka. The torrent look perfect for the woodland trails/fields/hard pack I live next to. Might give them a punt. Are they relatively true to size?

 Roadrunner6 29 Dec 2020
In reply to mattyP:

I find them so, they are not your typical hoka, not so high. I really like them. I wear the same size in them I wear in all other shoes.

 mountainbagger 30 Dec 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> I find them so, they are not your typical hoka, not so high. I really like them. I wear the same size in them I wear in all other shoes.

I went with my usual size too. They've arrived and I've tried them on around the house and they seem to be the right size. They are pleasantly light too so I'm looking forward to dancing through the mud in them 😀

In reply to mattyP:

My wife’s got a pair of Torrent 2s. I’ll be surprised if she gets 500km out of them. I don’t think Hoka trail shoes are great for UK conditions, as the outsole is just ‘stuck on’ with areas of midsole exposed. Bits of the outsole fell off her Challenger ATRs. They just aren’t very robust shoes for wet/mud/grit of the Peak District at least. Light and a nice midsole, but for a similar spec shoe I’d look at Peregrines or maybe Inov8 (though e.g. the Roclite midsole is not very cushy!)

 wbo2 30 Dec 2020
In reply to Tom Briggs: I wonder if the Speedgoats hold up better.   My challengers fell to pieces a long time before the midsole collapsed.

 greg_may_ 30 Dec 2020
In reply to Tom Briggs:

I'm on my second pair of Torrents - first pair did 584km until the upper ripped (gritstone may have helped), second pair is at 290km ish and not looking well. Wonderful shoe to run in, but I don't think I'll buy another pair.

 Roadrunner6 30 Dec 2020
In reply to wbo2:

> I wonder if the Speedgoats hold up better.   My challengers fell to pieces a long time before the midsole collapsed.

This happened to me too. I was amazed how quickly the uppers split apart.

I've had much better luck with speedgoats.

 Roadrunner6 30 Dec 2020
In reply to greg_may_:

I wore mine with a pair of running snow shoes (dions) and that did loads of damage to the uppers. It's not normally an issue with shoes but for some reason just one 3 mile run damaged the upper on them.

 mountainbagger 30 Dec 2020
In reply to mattyP:

Ok, I'm back from my first run in the Torrents. They were definitely nicer to run in than my Roclites (which were unpleasant on harder surfaces) and Cascadias (too heavy/stiff) but not as comfy as my Challengers (as expected).

They are lower to the ground than the Challengers, and you can feel more of the terrain (a good thing). They felt more stable and I wasn't concerned about my footing even in the failing light. They coped well with tarmac, grass, thick/sticky mud, steep ups and downs. Only on the steepest downhill in wet mud on one section did I feel my foot go which might not have happened in the Roclites.

Overall I'm very pleased with them. I will need to adjust the laces a bit to get my slightly smaller right foot more secure and will track how many miles I get out of them.

 greg_may_ 30 Dec 2020
In reply to mountainbagger:

I do think they are a good shoe if taken care of and on the correct terrain. It was a Tea Round that did my first pair in

 wbo2 31 Dec 2020
In reply to mountainbagger: If you pick them up and try to flex them how are they compared to the Challengers?

 Denning76 01 Jan 2021
In reply to wbo2:

My Speedgoats have held up well for light/medium trail and footpaths through fields. Next to useless in mud though. My only real issue with them is that, following some bad ankle problems, I'm less happy with a shoe of that stack height. Still great for easy days though.

Post edited at 16:20
 mountainbagger 01 Jan 2021
In reply to wbo2:

> If you pick them up and try to flex them how are they compared to the Challengers?

The Challengers only really bend in the forefoot of the shoe, the back two thirds being very stiff. The Torrents bend more uniformly along the front and middle thirds. I'd say they have more flex than the Challengers (and more than the Cascadias for that matter).

 mountainbagger 01 Jan 2021
In reply to Denning76:

> My Speedgoats have held up well for light/medium trail and footpaths through fields. Next to useless in mud though. My only real issue with them is that, following some bad ankle problems, I'm less happy with a shoe of that stack height. Still great for easy days though.

You may find the Torrents worth a look in that case, the stack height is pretty much 10mm less than the Speedgoats (23/18 for the Torrents vs 32/28 for the Speedgoats). I found them ok in the mud too though would have expected the Speedgoats to be better (but never tried them).

 dovebiker 01 Jan 2021

I also had some Hoka Speedgoat Mids - they're OK as a trail shoe but not really a serious offroad shoe as they lack grip in softer conditions and the upper too lightly built.  I managed to rip a lacing eyelet whilst tightening the laces as I found they'd squirm too easily  when trying to traverse uneven ground. I'm going off Hoka anyway, their prices keep going up (Brexit bonus) but the quality appears to be going south.


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