UKH

I've been thinking about the winter...

For those of you who have tried both, what's better for snowy and icy running in the hills; your normal shoes with some running crampons, or those orienteering style shoes with the little metal spikes in the sole?

I'm asking from a technical/comfort standpoint, not whether it's practical or not to have a shoe that is only appropriate for about three weeks of the year (depending on where you live of course).

In reply to NobleStone:

99% of the time in winter standard aggressive fell running shoes work fine for me, rarely is there much snow on the ground (lake district) and when there is at higher elevations its usually soft enough that spikes are not needed.

spiked shoes would be overkill. a cheap set of running spikes are handy to carry but its a fine line between them providing increased security and them being completely inadequate for the terrain.

In reply to NobleStone:

With regard to "crampons" I vastly prefer Yaktrax (the ones like springs) to actual spikes.  They grip ice wonderfully as if it's not there, and unlike spikes aren't a major problem if you're on a non-frozen bit.

In reply to NobleStone:

As others say i use fell shoes 99% of the time but when icy "orienteering style shoes with the little metal spikes in the sole" are a game changer they are like running with velcro under your feet.

Would be good in any conditions in winter but has reduced cushioning so avoid roads, thats why orienteers use them.

Those Yaktrax are the ones you see laying on the ground in winter after becoming detached, marketing crap.

In reply to NobleStone:

I use both - Salomon spike cross and Innov8 Arctic Talon - they are OK for flat-ish ground and sheet ice, but start to slide on any significant gradient.  I also use Kahtoola microspikes (loads of other makes too), that give much better grip and are probably the best for UK use with some solid fell shoes.  I also have some Kahtoola crampons that fit running shoes, but realistically you can't really run in those and if conditions were such that you needed them, you'd be better off in boots.

Here's some reviews:

https://www.irunfar.com/best-winter-running-traction-devices

In reply to NobleStone:

For what it's worth...

When I used to run and we had proper winters, I (and others) used to just put a handful of self-tapping screws into the studs of a older pair of trail/fell shoes. Worked great on flatish ice, a bit clattery on rock/pavement (but there's still plenty of rubber contact, cos you only 'spiked' ~20-30% of the studs). Worth considering.

In reply to Marek:

This tends to annoy the mountain bikers when they inevitably fall out.  Depends where you go running I suppose.  

In reply to George Ormerod:

+1 for George.

I have a similar setup to and came to the same conclusions.

In reply to NobleStone: I live in Souther  Norway and like the Salomon Spikecross, especially the couple weeks each year my road is coveret with sweet ice. 

 I have some microspikes as well,, but don't use them so much.  If there's that much snow in the hills i tend to go skiing

In reply to everyone:

Cheers all, very useful! For what it's worth I also find running in my normal fell shoes fine in the snow. It's when rocks and paths get iced over that I sometimes land on my arse! Usually where it's flat as I'm paying less attention...

wbo2: I agree, there comes a point where it's more fun to go skiing. Sadly it doesn't happen here very often.

In reply to George Ormerod and Marek:

I'd never considered the DIY approach with some screws, it's very appealing but I certainly wouldn't want screws falling out and littering the countryside.

Apparently La Sportiva sell some (much more expensive) screws that you can attach to your shoes and are much less likely to fall out. It looks like they're just selling tyre studs at a mark-up though. I might have a go with some tyre studs and an old pair of shoes this winter and see how it goes.

In reply to NobleStone:

I have both Nortec Trail Micro crampons and studded VJ shoes. 
In most cases, studded shoes are preferred when it’s just occasional or non-technical icy terrain. It gives a more natural ride and avoids having to stop to put crampons on and off. Absolutely fine to run on paths or roads (just a bit noisy and will be wearing down quicker!). I can wear studded shoes from a car park for miles and miles. 
 

When it comes to steeper neve, crampons give a lot more security. However, crampons are cumbersome and running on sloped slabs isn’t very nice. Same with grassy bits, you would be ripping out grass if it’s not frozen. 
 

I’ve done a fair few Munros in either but would be taking crampons and ice axe for longer outings.

I’ve been quite impressed by Camp running crampons - sturdier design (chains) than Nortec (wire) that holds the top bit and it comes with a proper case that won’t poke through other things in your bag. My missus got them and I’m always tempted to get a pair to compare each - maybe justifiable if I keep thinking about winter Ramsay round… 

In reply to NobleStone:

I don't recall ever losing a screw, but it was a while ago.

In reply to NobleStone:

There's a semi DIY possibility if you are is somewhere cold, which is see if a good sport shop or specific running shop can stud some shoes for you. I've still got some basic Nike running shoes with studs that I got done in Helsinki when I lived there (and used to run!). In Finland old people can get shoes studded at health centres if I remember correctly, it's a cheaper option for the healthcare system than treating the broken hips when folk fall on icy pavements. But anyway there is some sort of tool for doing this - if I remember it's some sort of neumatic gun I think. And that's what the sports shops had.

In reply to NobleStone:

I have the Inov8 arctic talons and kahtoola aluminium crampons. The trainers have metal studs and are good on snowy and icy trails. I add the crampons when going into the hills (also a lightweight axe). I think the trainers really come into their own somewhere like the Alps or Scandinavia, where there's a much higher chance of icy ground. In the UK I generally find conditions a bit too damp.