UKH

La Sportiva: Mutant to Jackal sizing

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 greg_may_ 03 Jun 2021

Older thread locked on the Mutant, so opening this.

I'm about to retire my Hoka Torrents - second pair, both did well, but not what I wanted when it gets a bit more fell than trail. I want a more cushioned shoe for summer when the trails are baked. The other end of the spectrum from my stripped back orienteering shoes, but not Hokas.

I've had great success with the Mutant, even if I get the off lace problem that Rob and others have gotten.

Anyone running in Mutants and Jackals and able to chip in with sizing changes? Did you stick the same size? Go up/down?

Use will be for longer trail runs, some fell, and up to 50km racing. 

 Sans-Plan 06 Jun 2021
In reply to greg_may_:

I have just got the Jackal, i also have the Akashas, I had to go up 1.5 sizes in both from street shoe (i could probably have got away with a full size but plan to use them in longer events and tend to wear at thicker sock so need a bit of room) i'm in a 9.5+ (whatever that is) in the Mutant but arguably should really be a 10 as my toes are at the front on descents

Anyway, none of the above probably helps you but it would say go up a full size from street to the jackal and you should be fine

 greg_may_ 06 Jun 2021
In reply to Sans-Plan:

I've gone up a size from my normal shoe size - another half above the Mutants. Shall see what comes of it! 

In reply to greg_may_:

I think I suggested doing as much in my review, as that’s certainly what I did and they’ve worked out really well for me - so much so that I’m probably due another pair sometime soon (I’ve done a lot of miles in them since that review was written!).

 Sans-Plan 07 Jun 2021
In reply to greg_may_:

Sounds about right and fits with Rob's review, I reckon I am more of a 10 than a 9.5+ in the mutant and I'm in 10.5 UK in the Akashas and Jackal, I tried a 10 but felt like they shortened a bit when flexed at the toe

Post edited at 07:37
 greg_may_ 07 Jun 2021
In reply to greg_may_:

Most excellent. Thanks folks! 

In reply to greg_may_:

Hope you get on with them Greg. They really compliment the Mutant, so make for a perfect pair. 

On a similar note, we’ve just got the Cyklon, which I’ve been looking forward to reviewing since they were first announced. The BOA lacing system featured should (at least in theory) solve the lacing issue that the Mutants suffered from.

It’ll be a few whiles before we publish the review, as I want to get a fair few miles in them beforehand, but will try to answer any questions along the way (if anyone has any).

 greg_may_ 07 Jun 2021
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Would be good to hear about, I get on really well with the Mutants, but the lacing irritates me a bit. 

 PPP 08 Jun 2021
In reply to greg_may_:

I know you shouldn’t need to fix £100 shoes, but adding a Salomon quicklace kit is amazing. I find the Mutant laces to be a bit slippery. 

In reply to Sans-Plan:

> I have just got the Jackal, i also have the Akashas, I had to go up 1.5 sizes in both from street shoe (i could probably have got away with a full size but plan to use them in longer events and tend to wear at thicker sock so need a bit of room) i'm in a 9.5+ (whatever that is) in the Mutant but arguably should really be a 10 as my toes are at the front on descents

Possibly being a bit dim here, but are the Mutants a larger shoe than the Jackal (assuming you had the same size)?

I have a pair of Jackals in a 9.5+ (again, whatever that is) and they're spot on for width, but just too long (heel lift on the climbs and foot sliding forward on descent).

Maybe a Mutant in a 9 might fit the bill if that's the case?

Post edited at 22:13
 Sans-Plan 08 Jun 2021
In reply to Ridge:

Personally I think Jackals are bigger than Mutants, Sportiva sizing seems to be all ver the place, but I could be imagining it…

Post edited at 22:27
In reply to Sans-Plan:

I always assumed the jackals were larger than mutants, and that seems to be the case. Is there much difference in width, which is my issue with shoes?

 Sans-Plan 09 Jun 2021
In reply to Ridge:

The Jackals are definitely wider than the Mutants as they are targeted at long distance rather than fell, there is a lot more room for your foot to spread in the forefoot, i think the materials feel a bit softer than the Mutant too, however the grip is not comparable, so if its wet and grassy it would be Mutant every time, but for rocky and dry i would be happy in the Jackals, i have used Akashas for most of my miles so far this year and they have been great.

UKC review here in case it passed you by:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/footwear/running_shoes/la_sportiva_jackal-12865

In reply to Sans-Plan:

> Personally I think Jackals are bigger than Mutants, Sportiva sizing seems to be all ver the place, but I could be imagining it…

Dunno if people have twigged but for a starters Sportiva European sizes are not in line with the comparable UK size. So a 46 Euro is actually called a 11.5 UK size, but it fits like a size 11 UK. That's why they always come up short. It's the same with their approach shoes and mountain boots. The UK sizing is .5 size too big compared to other brands.

 Sans-Plan 09 Jun 2021
In reply to Tom Briggs:

Yeah i knew it was off, the trouble is their running range isn't consistent across models which make it even more difficult to figure out where to start when switching from one to another.

In reply to Sans-Plan:

> The Jackals are definitely wider than the Mutants as they are targeted at long distance rather than fell, there is a lot more room for your foot to spread in the forefoot, i think the materials feel a bit softer than the Mutant too, however the grip is not comparable, so if its wet and grassy it would be Mutant every time, but for rocky and dry i would be happy in the Jackals, i have used Akashas for most of my miles so far this year and they have been great.

Sounds like our experiences tally pretty much exactly there, as I'd second everything you've said (although I haven't used the Akashas).

When I did my Bob Graham a few weeks ago I mixed and matched the Mutants and the Jackals, with the former being more suitable for the rougher terrain on L1 and 3, whereas the latter were better suited for the more runnable ground throughout L2, 4 and 5. 

That said, in different conditions I could easily have gone either way, but that's what worked for me at the time. If it'd have been any wetter I could easily have worn the Mutants throughout; if it'd have been any drier then the Jackals would have been worn from beginning to end.

It's going to be interesting to see what the Cyklon/Karacal combo brings to the table, as both sound like quite close cousins to the Mutant/Jackal, which are (as this thread has proved) quite a strong combination. 

Wonder which I'll prefer?!

Post edited at 09:03
1
 Sans-Plan 09 Jun 2021
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

The Cyklon look interesting but the I can't imagine the Boa mechanism standing up to abuse from rocks in the Lakes (especially L3 of the BG) it could easily get snagged and fail, which would be interesting trying to get home with a shoe that wont fasten, Boa has its place on cycling shoes etc but I'm not convinced on it's use on a mountain shoe.

Be interesting to see your thoughts when you have used them a bit

In reply to Sans-Plan:

Thanks. I have the jackal, and apart from the heel cup and the heel 'spine', I really like it. I just can't get a good heel fit without it rubbing my achilles (even after using a vice to try and bend back the spine.

I think the mutants would be ideal, but I have wide feet. Just going to have to find a shop and try them on.

In reply to Ridge:

What puts me off the Jackal is the weight, as unlike most Sportivas they actually fit me quite well. I’m after something of similar spec to a Speedgoat/Jackal etc for UK mountain running that weighs closer to 300gms than 350gms. Will probably try the Brooks Catamount as it’s light and I’ve had 3 pairs of Calderas, which have been solid. You compromise on the outsole, but they’re uppers are more minimalist than Sportivas and I’ve found Brooks are really good quality.

 greg_may_ 09 Jun 2021
In reply to Tom Briggs:

Interesting, I've not gotten much milage out of Brooks in the past few years with their softer midsoles.  I think a lot of it has to do with where you're using them! The trails around here (South Pennines) tend to go from dry to bog in a day. Chuck in a lot of gritstone and it errodes shoes like nothing else I've come across.

Post edited at 16:48

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